Line Pilot's Working Week
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Line Pilot's Working Week
Hi all.
Okay, lets assume nice shiney new F/O joins a "typical" lo-cost short-haul airline in the UK. He has approx 350hrs and fATPL i.e bottom on the ladder.
How much spare time per week is he likely to see every week
? thats actually time at home, not driving to airport etc etc...
Compare to desk flyer working 12hrs per day inc. communting (2hrs day).
Who gets the most time to play with his kids and pursue interests?
Whilst we're at it - how "stressful" is the job?
Opinions from experience gratefully received!
Thanks very much,
Okay, lets assume nice shiney new F/O joins a "typical" lo-cost short-haul airline in the UK. He has approx 350hrs and fATPL i.e bottom on the ladder.
How much spare time per week is he likely to see every week
? thats actually time at home, not driving to airport etc etc...Compare to desk flyer working 12hrs per day inc. communting (2hrs day).
Who gets the most time to play with his kids and pursue interests?
Whilst we're at it - how "stressful" is the job?
Opinions from experience gratefully received!
Thanks very much,
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If you need to ask, are you sure it's for you? Something has to get you up at 0330am. It won't be the time off you're getting, it won't be the money. The only thing that will do it for 35 years is the love of the job! You will probably have less time at home than office wallahs, certainly less time at family times. You will miss Christmases, Easters, Bank Holidays don't exist. Several times a year your job will be on the line with medical checks, 2 hard simulator checks a year, route checks. Stress wise, you will get aggravation from delays, ATC slots, ground staff, tension inflight, weather and technical problems. If you are not committed now, don't proceed any further. Hopefully something is telling you this is what you want to do!
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Absolutely right, rich (in job satisfaction), and plenty of time to spare (because there's no money to go enjoy yourself doing other things). Bang on.
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I knew if I asked this question I would get someone saying "you dont sound motivated enough" blah blah blah or "you obviously very naive - go back to bed and carry on dreaming"....
I'm up at 0600 every day doing ATPL theory for 2 hrs before work, 1 hr at lunch, then 2hr in the eves like many others so my commitment is not an issue. I realise though I am completely ignorant of what the first year or two of airline work will actually be like - and I was hoping for a sensible answer to the question from someone.
All I read on PPruNE is people winging about their jobs...pay, conditions, mgt, pax etc - so sometime you think "heh, perhas I'm being naive here...flying professionally in todays commercial environment is just hard slog for little reward (financially or personally)"
I recently did my SEP rating prof check with a retired airline captain of 25k hrs. I asked him the same question to which his reply was that airline flying these days is, well, basically crap. All the decision making has been taking away from the pilots...and you're just biological extensions of the auto-pilot. Which is a worrying thing to hear frankly.
I was hoping for an accurate protrayal of the job warts and all. Will I be sitting up front sipping coffee watching the sunrise over the alps and thinking "this was worth it" or thinking "that guy was right - this is crap".
I'm up at 0600 every day doing ATPL theory for 2 hrs before work, 1 hr at lunch, then 2hr in the eves like many others so my commitment is not an issue. I realise though I am completely ignorant of what the first year or two of airline work will actually be like - and I was hoping for a sensible answer to the question from someone.
All I read on PPruNE is people winging about their jobs...pay, conditions, mgt, pax etc - so sometime you think "heh, perhas I'm being naive here...flying professionally in todays commercial environment is just hard slog for little reward (financially or personally)"I recently did my SEP rating prof check with a retired airline captain of 25k hrs. I asked him the same question to which his reply was that airline flying these days is, well, basically crap. All the decision making has been taking away from the pilots...and you're just biological extensions of the auto-pilot. Which is a worrying thing to hear frankly.
I was hoping for an accurate protrayal of the job warts and all. Will I be sitting up front sipping coffee watching the sunrise over the alps and thinking "this was worth it" or thinking "that guy was right - this is crap".
Last edited by Bandit650; 13th Dec 2006 at 10:06.
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Well thank you Sir for implying the answer was not 'sensible'. It was brutally honest.
From your last post, the answer to the last paragraph is 'both'. It's a question of does the first outweigh the second. If the second outweighs the first, go into banking. Maybe you'll grow to love the 7.15 train to Waterloo! Let's face it, many of the main attractions have gone- final salary pensions, staff travel not very good, enormously long days, hard work when you are dog tired. You need something to keep you at it- don't get upset with me if you haven't got it- flying's either a calling or not. If not, don't waste the time, money or effort to get there.
From your last post, the answer to the last paragraph is 'both'. It's a question of does the first outweigh the second. If the second outweighs the first, go into banking. Maybe you'll grow to love the 7.15 train to Waterloo! Let's face it, many of the main attractions have gone- final salary pensions, staff travel not very good, enormously long days, hard work when you are dog tired. You need something to keep you at it- don't get upset with me if you haven't got it- flying's either a calling or not. If not, don't waste the time, money or effort to get there.
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Are you sure you made the right career choice? you sound a bit negative about the whole thing. Is there nothing specific about the job you enjoy?
Last edited by Bandit650; 13th Dec 2006 at 10:15.
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Bandit650
Also flying covers a large area, airline is just one area, are you not interested in other types of flying? Why not?
You have chosen to be an airline pilot without even knowing about it (hence your orginal post), this suggests a lack of research. How do you know you want to be an airline pilot when you don't know the job?
Also flying covers a large area, airline is just one area, are you not interested in other types of flying? Why not?
You have chosen to be an airline pilot without even knowing about it (hence your orginal post), this suggests a lack of research. How do you know you want to be an airline pilot when you don't know the job?
By posting the original question I'm doing the very research you are suggesting.
Last edited by Bandit650; 13th Dec 2006 at 10:33.
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Been in the job a short while now and absolutely love it.
Not working for a lo-co so can't comment.
Still have the stupid-o'clock starts, unstable rosters and all the other issues mentioned. However that's exactly what i expected and to be honest, i like all the uncertainty of it all, thats what makes it interesting.
With respect to the guys that have posted and emphasised the negatives, i wonder if they REALLY have done a hard days graft for the minimum wage.
Whats the phrase?..." walk a mile in another mans shoes".
Makes one appreciate what one has got!
Not working for a lo-co so can't comment.
Still have the stupid-o'clock starts, unstable rosters and all the other issues mentioned. However that's exactly what i expected and to be honest, i like all the uncertainty of it all, thats what makes it interesting.
With respect to the guys that have posted and emphasised the negatives, i wonder if they REALLY have done a hard days graft for the minimum wage.
Whats the phrase?..." walk a mile in another mans shoes".
Makes one appreciate what one has got!
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My job might not be the "typical" first job as many of the lowtimers seem fixed on getting a RHS on a big jet as the first job. Because of this, my account might not be valid for you but I'll still list the things I like with my job.
I fly commuter traffic in finland on a TP so we're in constant icing and turbulence.
Positive things:
- Short sectors: you never get bored, constantly working ahead.
- Many sectors per day: You quickly get into the game and while someone is doing just about 3 landings per month (comparing to cargo longhaul), I've lost count of mine....
- Small company: You know the guys you're flying with.
- Salary: Never having had a real job before this job, I guess any amount of money would suffice, but I'm quite happy with what I'm making and I also get around 10-12 days of a month.
In general: My life, much as before is set aside for flying. I still live to fly instead of fly to live, although it kind of helps having an income...
Is there any other job in which you controll a huge lump of metal being hurled through the sky at 250 knots? Just thinking of that when I'm up makes me happy and proud of what I'm doing. I pretty much like all aspects of flying. I don't mind if it's windy and bumpy, it's fun anyway. Icing isn't a problem. So we might not be able to climb as high as we would want, but have you ever seen 2 cm layer of clear ice being blasted away by the boots? It's pretty darn cool... They can delay us as much as they want and the plane can have it's problems. At the time, I'm only concearned with learning as much as possible. As soon as there's a problem, my focus is on helping my commander to solve it and I try to learn a lesson or two in the process so that when I make it to the left seat, I'll know what to do and how to do it best.
It's all those little things that gets me going. Call me easy to please, but I appreciate the small things that i found fascinating when I was a little kid. The only difference is that I'm inside the FD instead of outside, looking in with big eyes.
But I have seen pilots that obviously don't have the same interest in flying as I do. They either never get a job or once they get it, get bored and stop flying.
/LnS
I fly commuter traffic in finland on a TP so we're in constant icing and turbulence.
Positive things:
- Short sectors: you never get bored, constantly working ahead.
- Many sectors per day: You quickly get into the game and while someone is doing just about 3 landings per month (comparing to cargo longhaul), I've lost count of mine....
- Small company: You know the guys you're flying with.
- Salary: Never having had a real job before this job, I guess any amount of money would suffice, but I'm quite happy with what I'm making and I also get around 10-12 days of a month.
In general: My life, much as before is set aside for flying. I still live to fly instead of fly to live, although it kind of helps having an income...
Is there any other job in which you controll a huge lump of metal being hurled through the sky at 250 knots? Just thinking of that when I'm up makes me happy and proud of what I'm doing. I pretty much like all aspects of flying. I don't mind if it's windy and bumpy, it's fun anyway. Icing isn't a problem. So we might not be able to climb as high as we would want, but have you ever seen 2 cm layer of clear ice being blasted away by the boots? It's pretty darn cool... They can delay us as much as they want and the plane can have it's problems. At the time, I'm only concearned with learning as much as possible. As soon as there's a problem, my focus is on helping my commander to solve it and I try to learn a lesson or two in the process so that when I make it to the left seat, I'll know what to do and how to do it best.
It's all those little things that gets me going. Call me easy to please, but I appreciate the small things that i found fascinating when I was a little kid. The only difference is that I'm inside the FD instead of outside, looking in with big eyes.
But I have seen pilots that obviously don't have the same interest in flying as I do. They either never get a job or once they get it, get bored and stop flying.
/LnS
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My wife works in the city and I am a longhaul pilot.
She works far harder than me, but gets paid more.
I get to see great places, but she gets to see the kids more.
I get lots of days off, but often work christmas/weekends/birthdays.
She always brings work home with her, I never do.
Every QUID has its PRO QUO. I love the unpredictability of my job, and could not work 9-5 in an office. If that is what you want, it is the best job in the world.
If you are doing it for the image/status, you will hate it as you get older.
HTH
P-T-G
She works far harder than me, but gets paid more.
I get to see great places, but she gets to see the kids more.
I get lots of days off, but often work christmas/weekends/birthdays.
She always brings work home with her, I never do.
Every QUID has its PRO QUO. I love the unpredictability of my job, and could not work 9-5 in an office. If that is what you want, it is the best job in the world.
If you are doing it for the image/status, you will hate it as you get older.
HTH
P-T-G
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Are you sure you made the right career choice? you sound a bit negative about the whole thing. Is there nothing specific about the job you enjoy?
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My background is in training. I never cease to be amazed how little even relatively advanced student pilots know about their chosen career environment. A couple of years ago I gave a group of CPL students (i.e.CPL skill test passed at large integrated school) a look around a 747. In the cockpit I was asked "do the same crews fly the same aircraft to the same destinations or do they get to go to different places?","how do you know what all the switches & dials do?" & "do the pilots get to take their jackets & hats off during the flight?" . These are from student pilots who have paid a significant amount of money to persue a career they apparently know very little about. Of course, I'm not tarring everyone with the same brush but it does make you wonder about the motivation sometimes.
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Hi Bandit650,
I would say P-T-G & low n' slow offer good advice, at the end of the day as a new f/o in a uk 'lo-co' even at low hours you are still worked in the same roster pattern as your experienced colleagues, therefore you get the same time off as a regular line pilot. Plus of course you will still be restricted by the same flight time regulations & limited to 900 hours flying at the end of the year. So generally in a uk 'lo-co' you get quite a few days off per month in the roster pattern.
I found that although you have quite a reasonable amount of time off as a new pilot, flying the early flights online you need to have your head in the books at all times, getting very familiar with ops manuals, reviewing tech manuals & just generally trying to get to grips with the additional knowledge required to successfully operate an aircraft on a regular basis.
Social stuff is pretty much similar really but as P-T-G quite rightly points out forget being around for bank holidays/xmas/birthdays/weddings/weekends!
I personally prefer the variety of shift & pattern work as I hated the 9-5 Mon-Fri grind with everyone else, I prefer to have days off during the week occasionally.
In general you work the same hours as a normal line pilot when you are a fresh f/o but be prepared to work outside of line flying hours in order to make your life easier at work!
I would say P-T-G & low n' slow offer good advice, at the end of the day as a new f/o in a uk 'lo-co' even at low hours you are still worked in the same roster pattern as your experienced colleagues, therefore you get the same time off as a regular line pilot. Plus of course you will still be restricted by the same flight time regulations & limited to 900 hours flying at the end of the year. So generally in a uk 'lo-co' you get quite a few days off per month in the roster pattern.
I found that although you have quite a reasonable amount of time off as a new pilot, flying the early flights online you need to have your head in the books at all times, getting very familiar with ops manuals, reviewing tech manuals & just generally trying to get to grips with the additional knowledge required to successfully operate an aircraft on a regular basis.
Social stuff is pretty much similar really but as P-T-G quite rightly points out forget being around for bank holidays/xmas/birthdays/weddings/weekends!
I personally prefer the variety of shift & pattern work as I hated the 9-5 Mon-Fri grind with everyone else, I prefer to have days off during the week occasionally.
In general you work the same hours as a normal line pilot when you are a fresh f/o but be prepared to work outside of line flying hours in order to make your life easier at work!
(computer programmer, started ATPL 4 weeks ago!)
