What makes professional flying now so great?
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What makes professional flying now so great?
Hello,
I've been wanting to be an airline pilot for as long as I can remember, but now the time is getting very close (weeks) to having to actually commit I have been thinking a lot more about the lifestyle that goes with the job.
I hold a ppl and love playing near clouds, taking friends up, seeing sunsets etc... but what extra is there in professional flying?
I've talked to several pilots and am getting disillusioned by low pay, anti-social hours, boredom during cruise and restricted holiday times.
So I'm hoping that there are some current pilots out there who wouldn't mind telling me what makes professional flying so good that anyone should put up with the above negatives?
Many thanks and i'm eagerly awaiting any replies.
I've been wanting to be an airline pilot for as long as I can remember, but now the time is getting very close (weeks) to having to actually commit I have been thinking a lot more about the lifestyle that goes with the job.
I hold a ppl and love playing near clouds, taking friends up, seeing sunsets etc... but what extra is there in professional flying?
I've talked to several pilots and am getting disillusioned by low pay, anti-social hours, boredom during cruise and restricted holiday times.
So I'm hoping that there are some current pilots out there who wouldn't mind telling me what makes professional flying so good that anyone should put up with the above negatives?
Many thanks and i'm eagerly awaiting any replies.
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I'm not yet a pilot but i always thought to myself flying mission flights like aid flights in africa, i would say there are good companies out there.
Like citiexpress only work from 6am untill midnight as in no overnight flights but they do have like a 3 day stop where you can do based in man fly to edinburgh to do leg to lcy then geneva then stay in a hotel overnight things like that but your not flying overnight
although don't get me started on solar radiation as im still pondering over that, and would probably want to only do night flights.
Like citiexpress only work from 6am untill midnight as in no overnight flights but they do have like a 3 day stop where you can do based in man fly to edinburgh to do leg to lcy then geneva then stay in a hotel overnight things like that but your not flying overnight
although don't get me started on solar radiation as im still pondering over that, and would probably want to only do night flights.
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Oh dear.
Solar radiation does not diminish by night. Hotel stays are not the highlight of professional aviation, well generally not.
Best to clearly understand that what it takes to get there is a will to succeed in flying that doesn't question the negatives too closely. These exist to the same degree as any job, and can be quite a pain.
It's the positives that count, but they only come from a real desire to fly an aircraft professionally, i.e. in all weathers, to a high standard, mastering complex and beautiful aircraft, and managing the problems successfully. The negatives are in abundance, as they would be for a desk job with the council, a marketing career with a blue-chip, advertising to the masses, high profile politics, and so on.
Mind you, James Bond seemed to have a decent non-flying job.....
Solar radiation does not diminish by night. Hotel stays are not the highlight of professional aviation, well generally not.
Best to clearly understand that what it takes to get there is a will to succeed in flying that doesn't question the negatives too closely. These exist to the same degree as any job, and can be quite a pain.
It's the positives that count, but they only come from a real desire to fly an aircraft professionally, i.e. in all weathers, to a high standard, mastering complex and beautiful aircraft, and managing the problems successfully. The negatives are in abundance, as they would be for a desk job with the council, a marketing career with a blue-chip, advertising to the masses, high profile politics, and so on.
Mind you, James Bond seemed to have a decent non-flying job.....
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Thanks Roy,
How do you find balancing the flying with a home life? It seems to me that most people.. especially when they're starting out.. have to choose one or the other.
I seem to get the impression that with flying it's getting towards living to work, rather than working to live!?
How do you find balancing the flying with a home life? It seems to me that most people.. especially when they're starting out.. have to choose one or the other.
I seem to get the impression that with flying it's getting towards living to work, rather than working to live!?
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Don't listen to the moaners, they would be moaners in any job. I love it and have been doing it for a few years now.
One Captain I flew with reckons that being a pilot is the best job for having kids, because you see them a lot! Certainly if I had kids, I would see them more than many of my friends who have "proper" jobs who really do work to live.
Be aware of the pitfalls and the problems, but don't forget the others that go with any other job.
One Captain I flew with reckons that being a pilot is the best job for having kids, because you see them a lot! Certainly if I had kids, I would see them more than many of my friends who have "proper" jobs who really do work to live.
Be aware of the pitfalls and the problems, but don't forget the others that go with any other job.
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what makes professional flying so good that anyone should put up with the above negatives?
It's the best job in the world, and just keeps getting better, and better, and better......
Regards,
Old Smokey
Every pilot has their own reasons why they fly. Every person has their own threshold of tolerance for that which must be endured in order to achieve one's goals. Make no mistake, there are many pitfalls and difficult situations associated with the life of a working pilot. If you want it enough, these problems will be overshadowed by the rewards that flying gives to those who give it their fullest effort and are devoted to their craft. It is not a good career choice for everyone. But if you feel that you MUST do it, or cannot really see yourself doing something else, then by all means, dive right in. You might be just the right kind of person.
I sure envy Old Smokey his unequivocal refusal to acknowledge any negative aspects! I sometimes regret that I lack this ability. Yet I trudge on regardless, with the realization that a job, a career or a life is only as good as you make it, given the circumstances and the tools you have to work with. For myself, I expect that the rewards will continue to outweigh the negatives for some time to come. To date, this IS the best work I've done and the best job I've had. Of this I am certain. Best of success to you in whatever you choose to do, jhorton.
Best regards,
Westhawk
I sure envy Old Smokey his unequivocal refusal to acknowledge any negative aspects! I sometimes regret that I lack this ability. Yet I trudge on regardless, with the realization that a job, a career or a life is only as good as you make it, given the circumstances and the tools you have to work with. For myself, I expect that the rewards will continue to outweigh the negatives for some time to come. To date, this IS the best work I've done and the best job I've had. Of this I am certain. Best of success to you in whatever you choose to do, jhorton.
Best regards,
Westhawk
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Charlie!! How're things down under? As you can read, I've been having a lot of thoughts.
Westhawk, Old smokey, Jetstream, thanks for you replies. Would any of you mind letting me know what, in your experience, you consider the positives to actually be?
I ask this as I've got several negatives in my head at the moment and only undefined positives trying to balance them out... It would be REALLY useful if I could put some actual things to them.
Thanks again
J
Westhawk, Old smokey, Jetstream, thanks for you replies. Would any of you mind letting me know what, in your experience, you consider the positives to actually be?
I ask this as I've got several negatives in my head at the moment and only undefined positives trying to balance them out... It would be REALLY useful if I could put some actual things to them.
Thanks again
J
Last edited by jhorton; 11th Oct 2005 at 15:02.
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The good things:
The view - stunning.
The people, you meet so many.
The sensation.
The responsibility.
The sense of achievement, both of getting the job and that every day you do something useful.
The travel to wonderful places.
The travel to less wonderful places (makes you realise how lucky you really are).
The money (better than my "normal" mates).
The pride.
Days off that aren't when everybody else has them.
Days where you get half of it at home and it counts as a days work.
The fun downroute (it's what you make it).
Everything being in reach - no need to have to wander about the office trying to find something.
Ability to buy truly different Christmas and Birthday pressies downroute.
The fact that landing an aeroplane is just great fun and you have to do it every time you go to work.
The downsides:
1. If you can only see to the end of your own nose you will not realise how lucky you are.
2. You have to work unsocial hours.
3. You cannot guarantee you will be home on a given day.
4. People moan.
5. You will get tired.
6. It costs a lot if you are self sponsored.
Numbers 1, 4 and 5 are universal with decent jobs, so really its only 2, 3 and 6 you have to worry about.
I just cannot agree with the people who say we work too hard for too little pay, unless of course they are a flying instructor or work at a dodgy company.
The view - stunning.
The people, you meet so many.
The sensation.
The responsibility.
The sense of achievement, both of getting the job and that every day you do something useful.
The travel to wonderful places.
The travel to less wonderful places (makes you realise how lucky you really are).
The money (better than my "normal" mates).
The pride.
Days off that aren't when everybody else has them.
Days where you get half of it at home and it counts as a days work.
The fun downroute (it's what you make it).
Everything being in reach - no need to have to wander about the office trying to find something.
Ability to buy truly different Christmas and Birthday pressies downroute.
The fact that landing an aeroplane is just great fun and you have to do it every time you go to work.
The downsides:
1. If you can only see to the end of your own nose you will not realise how lucky you are.
2. You have to work unsocial hours.
3. You cannot guarantee you will be home on a given day.
4. People moan.
5. You will get tired.
6. It costs a lot if you are self sponsored.
Numbers 1, 4 and 5 are universal with decent jobs, so really its only 2, 3 and 6 you have to worry about.
I just cannot agree with the people who say we work too hard for too little pay, unless of course they are a flying instructor or work at a dodgy company.
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jhorton
your question is a good one. I see a lot of people setting out on this career with rose-tinted specs firmly in place.
At risk of being seen to be overly negative, or one of the so-called "moaners", I think it's important to give you a slightly different viewpoint.
Firstly, remember the answers you get will tend to vary greatly depending on how long someone's been doing the job. I'd say less than ten years in the cockpit of an airliner and people on the whole are mostly very positive about the job. After that.............
Certainly in the short haul world in the UK, the job has changed very much for the worse. Basically a much more fatiguing flying environment, with less meaningful time off to organise a normal life away from home. I won't mention money, because that's all relative anyway to how people perceive their own worth, and tends to muddy the discusssion.
As for comparing flying to other jobs, I hardly see that's the point - simply because 'A' is better than 'B' doesn't mean that 'A' is actually any good, if you see what I mean.
And while Jetstream Rider has his list of positives, I'm not sure that being able to buy Christmas presents abroad for example is the best reason to embark on a career. No offence to J R by the way, if it does it for him, then that's great.
You already have a PPL, and you're asking what extra is there in professional flying? In a nutshell, I'd say you get to fly aeroplanes that wouldn't otherwise be available to you, and you get to become an experienced, skillful and crusty aviator. An operator, manager and flyer of big jets.
However, the price you will pay for this is fatigue, great difficulty balancing home and work, with work always coming first, and possible disillusionment as you get older. Some will say of course that's the same in any job.
Remember, for most pilots the job doesn't change much. Your job is to safely and efficiently fly that aeroplane from A to B and back again time after time until you retire. If you think that sounds great, then go for it.
However, if you need to be creative, if you need to climb the corporate ladder, if you have ambitions about making serious money etc etc, then think hard. In other words, do you want to be the chaffeur flying the corporate jet, or the guy in the back? I'm not being flippant by the way, I just think that's a good way to think about what you want and what the job represents.
As you well know, in the end only you can decide.
Good luck with your choice.
your question is a good one. I see a lot of people setting out on this career with rose-tinted specs firmly in place.
At risk of being seen to be overly negative, or one of the so-called "moaners", I think it's important to give you a slightly different viewpoint.
Firstly, remember the answers you get will tend to vary greatly depending on how long someone's been doing the job. I'd say less than ten years in the cockpit of an airliner and people on the whole are mostly very positive about the job. After that.............
Certainly in the short haul world in the UK, the job has changed very much for the worse. Basically a much more fatiguing flying environment, with less meaningful time off to organise a normal life away from home. I won't mention money, because that's all relative anyway to how people perceive their own worth, and tends to muddy the discusssion.
As for comparing flying to other jobs, I hardly see that's the point - simply because 'A' is better than 'B' doesn't mean that 'A' is actually any good, if you see what I mean.
And while Jetstream Rider has his list of positives, I'm not sure that being able to buy Christmas presents abroad for example is the best reason to embark on a career. No offence to J R by the way, if it does it for him, then that's great.
You already have a PPL, and you're asking what extra is there in professional flying? In a nutshell, I'd say you get to fly aeroplanes that wouldn't otherwise be available to you, and you get to become an experienced, skillful and crusty aviator. An operator, manager and flyer of big jets.
However, the price you will pay for this is fatigue, great difficulty balancing home and work, with work always coming first, and possible disillusionment as you get older. Some will say of course that's the same in any job.
Remember, for most pilots the job doesn't change much. Your job is to safely and efficiently fly that aeroplane from A to B and back again time after time until you retire. If you think that sounds great, then go for it.
However, if you need to be creative, if you need to climb the corporate ladder, if you have ambitions about making serious money etc etc, then think hard. In other words, do you want to be the chaffeur flying the corporate jet, or the guy in the back? I'm not being flippant by the way, I just think that's a good way to think about what you want and what the job represents.
As you well know, in the end only you can decide.
Good luck with your choice.
Last edited by Maximum; 11th Oct 2005 at 14:30.
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Thanks guys,
Those two viewpoints seem to be the prevailing ones. I can't help but wonder about some of the points in J R's post:
Flying short haul, is there any opportunity to see the wonderful places, or do you stay in the airport as the aircraft gets turned around? And is it a silly question to ask if you ever get blaze or bored of the wonderful views?
I appreciate all your view, and am just trying to build up my own picture.
Those two viewpoints seem to be the prevailing ones. I can't help but wonder about some of the points in J R's post:
Flying short haul, is there any opportunity to see the wonderful places, or do you stay in the airport as the aircraft gets turned around? And is it a silly question to ask if you ever get blaze or bored of the wonderful views?
I appreciate all your view, and am just trying to build up my own picture.
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Flying short haul, is there any opportunity to see the wonderful places, or do you stay in the airport as the aircraft gets turned around?
If you're nightstopping, by the time you get to the hotel and have something to eat, there's not much time left for anything before you're thinking about getting some sleep and doing it all over again next day. And remember the strict alcohol regulations.
As for the view, in my opinion it's better from a light aircraft, down low. Most of the time above thirty thousand feet it's pretty hazy. Anyway, you really don't get that much of a chance to look at the view. At low level, you're too busy, or looking out for other traffic, and in the cruise, it's hazy. Yes sure, now and then you have a bit of a 'sight see', but really that aspect of the flying is much less than you'd think.
Of course, I'm not denying that crossing the Alps or whatever on a clear morning is an impressive sight, but I'm not sure it would sustain you for a whole career!
I refer you back to wanting to be a professional, skilled aviator. Bit like being a crusty old seadog. As you get older, all the other novelties will wear off, and it's this desire to be an airman that will keep you going. Or not. The desire to operate the equipment to the highest professional level. That's the bit you need to look for in yourself in my opinion. If that doesn't do it for you, think very carefully about what you want to do.
Obviously all just my own opinion, in the end you've got to follow your heart.
Last edited by Maximum; 11th Oct 2005 at 14:29.
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Both posts above seem reasonable and well written. I wouldn't call either "moaners" as they make their case well. "Moaners" are those who can't see what they have and can only see others.
I think comparing flying to other jobs is worthwhile - what else would you be doing instead? If you have a choice of biscuits or cheese, then you can compare them. If you try to compare flying and a job you will not be able to do, then it is not a valid comparison.
You do have to decide what you want in life - if it is pots of cash, then you have to put the time in and maybe sacrifice your family life too, unless you are very lucky. Most jobs become fairly routine after a while as well, and I do think it is important to have other interests besides flying.
When I was off sick last year, I missed being at work. Now I am back, I am not unhappy to be there.
I had to make a descision a few years ago as to whether I wanted to be a Pilot or an Engineer, I was offered both jobs. The Engineering job was a good one and so was the flying job. I decided that I could become an Engineer if I was a Pilot, but it would be very difficult to become a Pilot after a few years of Engineering (cost, age etc). I had to give it a go, and I am very pleased I have.
I have met many Captins who are close to retirement and there are basically three types. Those who cannot wait to go, those who have had a good career but feel it is time for a rest, and those who don't want to stop. It all depends on your personality and your drive. If your drive evaporates, you will become the first, most people become the second and a lucky few the third. If you are the second, you are no worse off than anyone else, the third you are very lucky and the first - well you would have become that anyway if you are that sort of person.
I think comparing flying to other jobs is worthwhile - what else would you be doing instead? If you have a choice of biscuits or cheese, then you can compare them. If you try to compare flying and a job you will not be able to do, then it is not a valid comparison.
You do have to decide what you want in life - if it is pots of cash, then you have to put the time in and maybe sacrifice your family life too, unless you are very lucky. Most jobs become fairly routine after a while as well, and I do think it is important to have other interests besides flying.
When I was off sick last year, I missed being at work. Now I am back, I am not unhappy to be there.
I had to make a descision a few years ago as to whether I wanted to be a Pilot or an Engineer, I was offered both jobs. The Engineering job was a good one and so was the flying job. I decided that I could become an Engineer if I was a Pilot, but it would be very difficult to become a Pilot after a few years of Engineering (cost, age etc). I had to give it a go, and I am very pleased I have.
I have met many Captins who are close to retirement and there are basically three types. Those who cannot wait to go, those who have had a good career but feel it is time for a rest, and those who don't want to stop. It all depends on your personality and your drive. If your drive evaporates, you will become the first, most people become the second and a lucky few the third. If you are the second, you are no worse off than anyone else, the third you are very lucky and the first - well you would have become that anyway if you are that sort of person.
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You want the mercy flights, aid flights and the most fantastic views with hands on poling at the edge of the envelope and near the ground??? Fly Helicopters!!!!
Seriously though, having seen it from both sides I have loved and hated my flying career dependant upon the personal circumstances behind it. There are always days when you wish you were somewhere else but ops and the roster says you can't. These are offset however by the glorious days when you can fly in the sun, relax a little and enjoy the ride. Planes are easy to fly and require little coaxing through the air, choppers on the other hand need fighting the whole time. You need to look at what you want and what fits your life!
Have fun
Seriously though, having seen it from both sides I have loved and hated my flying career dependant upon the personal circumstances behind it. There are always days when you wish you were somewhere else but ops and the roster says you can't. These are offset however by the glorious days when you can fly in the sun, relax a little and enjoy the ride. Planes are easy to fly and require little coaxing through the air, choppers on the other hand need fighting the whole time. You need to look at what you want and what fits your life!
Have fun
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Flying as a career has it's pros and cons.
Who you fly for can be a determining factor. Generally flying for a living is unlike any other job in the world. Traveling the world. Seeing new places. Meeting people from around the globe. Each new aircraft you fly is a challenge. Control over your schedule and holidays. Being senior really makes a difference. The pay gets better the more senior you are.
Some cons...
You are away a good portion of the month (for those with lots of kids this may be a plus). The pay early in your career is usually low. You work odd hours.
16 years and 9,000 hours I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world (except maybe for playing poker for a living
).
Gathering pilots photos for my site...
Who you fly for can be a determining factor. Generally flying for a living is unlike any other job in the world. Traveling the world. Seeing new places. Meeting people from around the globe. Each new aircraft you fly is a challenge. Control over your schedule and holidays. Being senior really makes a difference. The pay gets better the more senior you are.
Some cons...
You are away a good portion of the month (for those with lots of kids this may be a plus). The pay early in your career is usually low. You work odd hours.
16 years and 9,000 hours I wouldn't trade it for anything in the world (except maybe for playing poker for a living
).Gathering pilots photos for my site...
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Once again I have to emphasis I'm not trying to be negative just for the sake of it, but I have to highlight something in the last post that tickled me.
I'm afraid that certainly for a lot of short haul pilots in the UK, the exact opposite is the case. Made me laugh out loud that did.
Control over your schedule and holidays. Being senior really makes a difference.
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Yea, over here in a company like BA that is the case too. With more seniority you can bid for a roster that is more suited to what you want.
Unfortunately a lot of the other operators simply roster the work as they wish, so seniority plays no part.
Unfortunately a lot of the other operators simply roster the work as they wish, so seniority plays no part.
