Millitary Pukes
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,202
Likes: 4
From: Surrounding the localizer
Just to put some more cats amongst the preverbial pigeons....I wonder if anyone considers how good a longtime agricultural flyer..(crop duster..top dresser etc..) would do in the military....they have to think tatically, dodge hazards, and generally react quickly.
Just a thought
Cheers H
Just a thought
Cheers H
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 31
From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
Its a good start having those reactions. All he has to do is increase speed fourfold and get someone to shoot at him as well!! Must be mad to do that job, potential for birdstrike when the bird isn't flying!! 
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 806
Likes: 0
From: UK
Ah . . .. .the age old debate !
As a military guy going down the line of ATPL exams (gotta love those ELC's . . .
) I can see the self improvers side of the argument as we all jump into the RHS Long Haul with Virgin whilst your application gets pushed back out through the letterbox
BUT
Having done a bit of the FJ and a bit of the ME an hour in the cruise with the autopilot in has nothing on a one hour LL sortie.
Realise the military is not for everyone but you gotta realise that those that have done it have much to offer.
Fox 4
Hear you may be taking the Beamer down Ze Autobahn ?!?!?!
Someday, someway, you know ATPL groundschool is waiting for you . . . .
As a military guy going down the line of ATPL exams (gotta love those ELC's . . .
) I can see the self improvers side of the argument as we all jump into the RHS Long Haul with Virgin whilst your application gets pushed back out through the letterboxBUT
Having done a bit of the FJ and a bit of the ME an hour in the cruise with the autopilot in has nothing on a one hour LL sortie.
Realise the military is not for everyone but you gotta realise that those that have done it have much to offer.
Fox 4
Hear you may be taking the Beamer down Ze Autobahn ?!?!?!
Someday, someway, you know ATPL groundschool is waiting for you . . . .
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 115
From: UK
I just wondered if I could get some balance into this discussion so here are my qualifications:
16 years on 4-engine transports in the RAF of which 10 years was on TacT (MR).
25 years in civil aviation of which 8 years has been on three-holers and the rest on four-holers.
For 20 of those years I have been a TRI/TRE or the military equivalent.
I have probably trained dozens of you out there who are reading this post right now (including many pilots who have ended up with BA). Not one of them has ever given me anything but praise for what I have taught them nor have I ever had an adverse comment since I entered into civil aviation.
The only time that I have encountered animosity towards military pilots IN TOTAL was from a character in GK who was known throughout the Company as the "Unaccompanied Minor" - especially by the cabin staff. I never really did work out what his problem was.
So what do I think? Military pilots have a lot to offer PROVIDED that they realise they are in a whole new ball game and that they start right at the bottom of the seniority list.
I have found civilian flying to be an absolute dawdle compared to TacT (MR). I have only had to shut down one engine in 25 years and I have never been asked or ordered to operate outside the realms of Performance 'A' and all that that implies.
The most difficult decision I have had to make in the last 25 years was whether to have the lobster or the fillet mignon!
16 years on 4-engine transports in the RAF of which 10 years was on TacT (MR).
25 years in civil aviation of which 8 years has been on three-holers and the rest on four-holers.
For 20 of those years I have been a TRI/TRE or the military equivalent.
I have probably trained dozens of you out there who are reading this post right now (including many pilots who have ended up with BA). Not one of them has ever given me anything but praise for what I have taught them nor have I ever had an adverse comment since I entered into civil aviation.
The only time that I have encountered animosity towards military pilots IN TOTAL was from a character in GK who was known throughout the Company as the "Unaccompanied Minor" - especially by the cabin staff. I never really did work out what his problem was.
So what do I think? Military pilots have a lot to offer PROVIDED that they realise they are in a whole new ball game and that they start right at the bottom of the seniority list.
I have found civilian flying to be an absolute dawdle compared to TacT (MR). I have only had to shut down one engine in 25 years and I have never been asked or ordered to operate outside the realms of Performance 'A' and all that that implies.
The most difficult decision I have had to make in the last 25 years was whether to have the lobster or the fillet mignon!
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
PROVIDED being the operative word.
Sadly, many times it is not, with the FJ crowd I have met.
Keep 'em in the AirForce where they belong.
Leave civil aviation to the civilian trained...better for all around, in my view....and experience.
Many of the FJ folks just do not get along/belong in civil aircraft/airlines.
Boo hoo, poor babies....
PS: AF transport guys are a different kettle of fish altogether.
Team players all.
Sadly, many times it is not, with the FJ crowd I have met.
Keep 'em in the AirForce where they belong.
Leave civil aviation to the civilian trained...better for all around, in my view....and experience.
Many of the FJ folks just do not get along/belong in civil aircraft/airlines.
Boo hoo, poor babies....
PS: AF transport guys are a different kettle of fish altogether.
Team players all.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
From: Northern Hemisphere
Mil Experience
411A
It amazes me to see how narrow minded and simplistic a person can be.
The truth of the matter is that there are various shades to every pilot. Ex Mil or civvy is irrelevant. Finally the person defines and decides what image he or she projects. Subsequently one suffers or enjoys the fruits of your self definition.
Just because you could not get across to your ex mil FJ associate doesnt mean u can paint everyone in the same colour.
Just for info self with 21 years in the mil -various roles as FJ and now 4 years in an airline as captain. I did feel that the military was exceedingly challenging at every step. However in civvy the challenge comes at certain times neverthless both experiences are/were interesting.
All I can say is grow up and get a life!
It amazes me to see how narrow minded and simplistic a person can be.
The truth of the matter is that there are various shades to every pilot. Ex Mil or civvy is irrelevant. Finally the person defines and decides what image he or she projects. Subsequently one suffers or enjoys the fruits of your self definition.
Just because you could not get across to your ex mil FJ associate doesnt mean u can paint everyone in the same colour.
Just for info self with 21 years in the mil -various roles as FJ and now 4 years in an airline as captain. I did feel that the military was exceedingly challenging at every step. However in civvy the challenge comes at certain times neverthless both experiences are/were interesting.
All I can say is grow up and get a life!
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,055
Likes: 31
From: Liverpool based Geordie, so calm down, calm down kidda!!
411A, I am now not sure if you are serious or just fishing for someone to bite. If it is fishing then... oooops, I bit! If not you should look in the mirror sir....... I hope and pray that I never EVER fly with someone FJ, Slow Jet or even glider who has an attitude like yours. Always Broken In Wilts is an old crewmate of mine and he has much better phrases to describe bigoted people like yourself. EVERYONE is an individual, there are to**ers in all walks of aviation. I have met the most obnoxious FJ pilots but I have met aN EQUAL NUMBER of obnoxious 'other' pilots. Hang your head in shame.......
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 8,571
Likes: 3
From: Arizona USA
Quite serious...
jayteeto,
Yes, would agree that there are various shades of blue (AF FJ guys) but have found that the majority are, quite frankly, not worth the bother, for civil airlines....with the proviso that, if the particular airline management is/has been run by prior AF guys, then birds of a feather flock together.
With most carriers this is not the case, so the FJ prima donnas just don't (as a general rule) fit in, with the few exceptions I noted above.
AF transport guys however, used to working in transport aircraft, working as a team very similar to guys in civil airlines, are much better suited to civil airline flying.
Having trained both for the RHS in two airlines, I have found that the civil and AF transport guys ...
Get along much better with other crew,
are easier and less expensive to train (ie, less sim time required),
and generally line training goes much smoother.
You might have a look at the military forum...BEagles comments are interesting as well.
Yes, would agree that there are various shades of blue (AF FJ guys) but have found that the majority are, quite frankly, not worth the bother, for civil airlines....with the proviso that, if the particular airline management is/has been run by prior AF guys, then birds of a feather flock together.
With most carriers this is not the case, so the FJ prima donnas just don't (as a general rule) fit in, with the few exceptions I noted above.
AF transport guys however, used to working in transport aircraft, working as a team very similar to guys in civil airlines, are much better suited to civil airline flying.
Having trained both for the RHS in two airlines, I have found that the civil and AF transport guys ...
Get along much better with other crew,
are easier and less expensive to train (ie, less sim time required),
and generally line training goes much smoother.
You might have a look at the military forum...BEagles comments are interesting as well.
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 106
Likes: 0
From: Vertical at the merge
Arghhhhhhhh
Prima donnas! Listen to the living airline legend!
Great argument 411a, why not go enjoy a pint with your buddies instead of winding up mil pilots! Im sure you have opinions on lots of "interesting" topics.
FFP - No mate. Beamer is staying put at the mo. Was only ever a small chance
Prima donnas! Listen to the living airline legend!
Great argument 411a, why not go enjoy a pint with your buddies instead of winding up mil pilots! Im sure you have opinions on lots of "interesting" topics.
FFP - No mate. Beamer is staying put at the mo. Was only ever a small chance
