Yes, pretty much the same as everyone else....aimed for around 3 hours, very rarely managed it. Generally done about 2hrs-completed in 15months.
that was working 6 days and hours building in the rest.

As others have already said, work to your own schedule and remember to take as much time off/away as you need...there's no point in having no quality of life you'll just begin to hate it and not do nearly as well.

Best of luck

c99

I worked full time and studied for the exams and I have to say it was very very tough. I basically had to knuckle down and do what I had to do really!
I didn't give myself a set amount of hours per day, but what I did was (and I found this worked a treat for me) I set out how many chapters I wanted to get through.
Like let's say each frame had 3 subjects with 2-3 chapters per subject-I would aim to get one of the subjects done and that worked well for me tbh.
You have to get a very good balance when studying and working fulltime. You have to get the head down and go for it, but at the same time, you need a few hours to chill out and just give the brain a break!
I literally didn't socialise for the time that I did the exams except for the odd time, but this was just one of the sacrifices I had to make..
Just can't wait for all the training to be complete..at least I will be able to start buying clothes again(that's my ongoing sacrifice!)!..i hope!haha
Whatever you do I hope it all works out for you..best of luck:)

I managed about two hours a night but it wasn't always quality work. I did feel quite tired while I was doing it but luckily I had the weekends too so actually went back into the office for most of the day Saturday and Sunday where it was nice and quiet! I used my holidays to attend the "brush up" courses and do the exams and it took me about 15 months to do the lot, although I didn't push it and sat the exams over (I think) 3 sittings to make life easier.

I remember thinking that if I was doing them full time it would have been so much easier - I covered so much in my two weeks "brush up" and got so much out of discussions with the other guys on the course.

Do them full time if you can, but provided you keep focused part time is fine provided you dump as much other stuff out of your life as you can while you're studying!

Good luck!

I left home at 7am to go to work, back from work at 7pm, aimed to study 2-3 hours per night. Gave myself Friday night and Saturday off for good behaviour, then studied all day Sunday.

From start to finish took around 13 months, but it was tough going - a great test of your motivational skills. :ok:

Study Method
 

Hi Guys/Gals,

What did you find was the best study method that worked for you, i.e. note taking etc. I tend to go toooooo far into the subject which tends to slooooooow me down.

Cheers.

RB

After reading the subject once I printed out questions from a question bank and for each qestion I looked in the book to find out more about why the answer is the right one. It works realy well for me, and I can use the notes I made about the qestion to brush up, instead of the book. Of course some times it is good to go back and read more about the subject.
CBT with a search function is a good compliment to the some-times-not-so-easy-to-find-the-answer-in ATPL books.
D.

Cheers degothia,

Sounds a good enough method. I'm an Engineer so kinda get sucked into the nitty gritty of the material, wanting to know all the why's and how's etc:8 . As I said before it SURE does slow me down. I actually find the material quite interesting.

Keep em coming.

Cheers.

RB

I am in the same boat, however, hopefully, not for long.

Currently doing module 1 with BGS and working full time at MAN.

It's difficult to say how many hours I do per day because I do shift work. Some days it's zero, some 4. I always do at least 5 on my days off.

I don't mind saying that it is !!!!!e. It has been said many times before, and I couldn't agree more, if you don't have to work, don't do it. You can end up really resenting what can be an interestng course (arf!).

If I carried on like this I estimate it will take me roughly 12 months, plus or minus 1.

However, I plan on only working for module 1 and studying full time for module 2 which will seem like (hopefully) a relative walk in the park.

Whatever your circumstances, stick with it. And have some paracetamol ready for gyroscopes.

EK

Some of the stuff is quite interesting and I was left wanting to know more. The usual answer was " Dont need to know for exams so forget it".
It left me feeling a bit resentful about the whole process, dare I say cynical even.

But it is true. Its about passing the exams not about learning anything.:ugh:

Chrisbl,

Thats my issue I can't always just let it go and move on. I can't manage to see it as a basic process to just pass the exams.

I start of quite well as you mentioned above and then I hit something I need to know more more about, and there I get stuck.

I'm on distance learning, I think if I was on a full time course it would be better for me as it would be more structured which I guess would reduce the chances of my mind going it alone.

RB

Question bank is the way forward. Hammer it and learn the questions. Simple as that. Im working full time now after a spell of time off. It is hard going. Im taking a gamble I know by relying on the Q bank, but after sitting my Mod one exams I have every faith in it. Plus the brush up will do its part too.
Its ticks in boxes to be honest, thats the bottom line. I know some line pilots very well, who havent got a clue about some of the crap I rabbit on about when they ask how the study is going!! Enough said!!

Well expedite I beg to differ! Its not just about passing exams and ticking boxes! You have to have an understanding about why and what you are doing this for. Would you consider bribeing your way through a flight test? One would hope not! I assure those of you, who are revising the answers to questions, rather than learning the subject matter that you will more than likely drop a few subjects over pass them first time!
Remember the industry that you are aspiring to enter into and the high standards it demands of the individual.

Anyone can learn text verbatim, anyone can tick boxes, only a few can be airline pilots. :ok:

Full time work. Air Traffic Controller. 7 Months. (Three sittings 7-5-2). Worked fine.Alot of committment required though, doubt I could have managed anything else on my plate though. Bristol GS Q Bank all the way.....!

WTL

I work on a rotating shift pattern; 1 week I work 7-3, next week 3-11 then 3rd week 11pm-7am.

I assessed my lifestyle and said to myself in work I get 1 hour worth of break so instead of reading the paper I could be reading the BGS notes. so that gave me 5 hours per week right away. then I looked at my after hours work what do I do? so I packed the x-box back into the bag and put it away so it limits the distractions!

believe me that was hard! - its all about discipline. Some people say learn the question bank, I would agree with them - but dont learn that JUST to pass the exam, try and have an in-depth knowledge about the theory.

As 1 of my mentors once said to me - do you want to be a real pilot or do you want to just pass the exam?

Best of luck

Mia Donna I admire your idealism, but the ATPL exams are about ticking boxes. They are simply a coarse filter to prevent just anyone getting a licence. There is no need to go deeper into the science of the topics while studying for the exams - indeed, I'd advise against it. The ATPL syllabus uses an abridged, simplified approach to the various subjects that can fall apart under detailed study. They have to be, to be examinable in the way that they are.

If you wish tolearn in greater depth about some or all of the ATPL subjects, do it after you've done the exams. As you will discover, much of the syllabus will be dumped once you get into actually flying aeroplanes. Some bits you will, in the natural course of things, learn more about - and you'll learn the truth, not the ATPL version!

The fact that most airline pilots could not hold a discussion with a ground school student about the ATPL topics is that, in many subjects, they would neither recognise the science nor would they use that knowledge - their brains have been emptied and refilled with genuinely useful stuff!

Don't lose sleep over it, just get through it.

Scroggs

I didn't set myself a fixed number of hours a day as I had full time job and children. Had things to learn written on cards so even walking between offices at work was also studying. Had subjects on tapes I made myself to listen to in the car. (of course the children learnt quicker than me!)Also had GPWS data stuck to fish tank to study when washing up etc. Books dragged out whenever - and it was sometimes midnight. Tough times but can be done, and a short brush up course gave me practice and the all important questions. Hope it goes well for you too.

Thanks scroggs,

Its good to hear it from someone already deep in the industry like yourself. :ok:

Enjoy!

RB

My story
 

There appears to be alot of X hrs and from X o'clock to whatever cut-off time in the evening or as in my case early morning :) Upon reflection I feel this wasn't necessarily the best way to approach the exams and forces most students to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Though the preparation for the ATPL exams is a trying time to say the least you can nevertheless decrease the burden upon yourselves by aiming for quality rather than quantity. Rather than the blind rush into the workload try and facilitate days off, like all athletes you train hard but then also require rest periods for the body to heal and thus fitness to rise. :)

When I first started it was like a bat out of hell and I would wake early in the morning to begin studying and then goto my 9-5 job upon returning I'd hit the books before a brief break and then back to them all the way upto midnight or more. My wife finally caused me to have a reality check and instead started to study with days off and also numerous breaks throughout study periods whilst also ditching the early morning sessions. With this increased sleep and consequently reduced stress I started to make far better progress than before. I have maintained the same routine ever since and can see the marked difference from before where I'd constantly go over and over the same subject matter because it just wasn't going in.

Just my 2 cents worth, I realise that everyone's different but to run a marathon you shouldn't sprint. If anything save that for the brush up sessions, you'll need it. ;)

I wish all my fellow ATPL peers the very best of luck!:ok:

Started in Mid October, still bashing though the phase 1 reading ... was originally hoping to be doing brush up now for phase 1 but i'm behind my schedule I set ... Im not having a mad panic though, just keeping the momentum going.

I generally take my books with me wherever I go... I get 40mins each way on the train to study, 1-2 hrs in the eve (not every eve though) and try and do 1-2 full days per weekend. My aim is to use any dead time (travelling etc) reading notes. I tried the old 3hrs each eve, but it just doesnt happen some nights and like other said, when your looking at the same paragraph for 20mins its time for a beer!

At the moment, I reckon I'll be done by xmas :D

Study techniques for ATPL subjects
 

Hi there.

I have just started present ATPL ground school and finding problem to hang on with the studdies. It's a 9 month course including summer holidays (approx 1 and halv month). I know that this is serious, and sacrifice almost all my spare time to studdy..but it is just TOO MUCH!

I start 08.00 or 09.00 oclock, coming home 16.00 - 18.00 and have 4 hours for studdying the pages we went through the day. Just the reading take 2-3 hours and my brain is total exhausted after that and have no time to really go deeply and analyze some pages that feels really important to understand.

Some days it feels that i don't the enery to read because im too tired. This get me stressed because nothing is really got caught in my head. The weekends is only the day I have really time to go through and repeat deeply and before writing exams, but it's a short time.

This is something I want to learn and not just pass the exams..so please, have you any idea / study techniques you could share to make this easier for me? Everything is appreciated.

Flight greetings

m4x

m4x

Don't worry about it, I also ended up doing full time study and was in a similar position 8 hours at the school and then feeling worried about how much or how little of it I could remember. YOU CANNOT STUDY ALL DAY AND ALL NIGHT! The technique used on my last module was relax a bit more in the class and take less notes than I was doing, after the 8 hours at school I would take 1-2 hours off then I would spend 1 hour max going over key points of the day (drawing tables etc.) which were put on my large notice board. I would then spend varying amounts of time doing as many feedback questions as I could get hold off. I would get the Bristol online database asap as I found it very good practise, flight plannning and genral nav. require lots of practise as you need to be fairly quick and accurate with the questions. It seems very daunting near the start of the ATPL's work hard but relax in between and you will be ok.

Best of luck.

Hi m4x

Check out this thread on the subject I started a while ago:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=267998

I would ignore any disheartening comments, there is nothing unsual about you situation. My comments would be:

1. It takes a while to get into the swing of it and find your own effective techniques and practices.
2. Don't be too ambitious about timescales . You don't get any extra brownie points for finishing in 8mths as opposed to 15mths. Concentrate on quality time of study time, not quantity. I don't study past 9pm, I usually do 1-2 hrs before work, 2hrs during the day at work (!) and maybe an hour in the evening, plus time on the train in/out of London every day. Seems to work quite well.
3. Getting up very early and studying is better then studying in the evening. Better to use your evening for sleeping!
4. I guess the previous points lead to...having a study plan.
5. Don't try to reach some kind of nirvana of understanding on each topic. Firstly, the material isn't appropriate for doing so, and secondly its just about passing exams.its not a Phd....you can go back and do it in more depth after you have qualified if you want to.
6. Half the battle is being familiar with how the exam questions are phrased and applying your recall to them correctly. Therefore I personally am spending at least a third of my time practising questions from question banks.

and finally, don't get disheartened (thats a waste of valueable time for a start!)....and try and enjoy the work....some of it is actually interesting...I thought, for example, I knew a bit about how wings worked from my PPL...I now realise I knew diddly squat (now I just know squat!)...

all the best:ok:

m4x

I sure fire way to make yourself pull your finger out and get your arse in gear is to book the exams, it worked for me twice :ok:

Little help
 

I am still in the middel of these exams, but so far.. still a good average.

I know there's a lot of people around learning only feedback ;) even for calculation questions (gennav mass ballance etc). That does not work for me, it saves you a hell of a lot of time just to learn the methods in this case. Make little drawings of compass and polar chart q's.

For all the other questions I use the (expensinve) Bristol to prepare, but I also use this site http://atpl.sep2jet.com to do some quizzes. Keeps track of results and its free!

Personally I think performance was the most difficult so far, not much questions, so bust 1 4 pointer and your getting low already ;) and we used the old CAP :yuk:

Good luck!

easy solution
 

All you need to do is memorise bristols question bank for each subject until you get 98% or above. The caa will use feedback for at least 70% of each paper and often a lot higher than that eg comms and law.This basically means that you can guess the rest and still pass and if you know anything you should get over 80% +. so my advise to you is to do 50 questions per day in each bank and then blitz it on weekends.Bristol got a huge grant to set up the question bank.THE CAA DO USE IT. :cool:

:=

Or you could learn the subjects!

Turbine and Leeds are both correct- learn the stuff as best you can- but use bristol to make sure you pass. Do invest in Oxford's excellent CDROM material- bear in mind they don't use this in class....strange.......

This is curious. Are you suggesting that the CAA take their questions from Bristol's database? I understood it to be the other way round...

It dosent really matter, Leads 65 has hit the nail on the head. On my last brush up, guys who were ofay with the subjetcs got hit hard when doing feedback questions.(especially those with no exposeure to the Qbank!!) Its not about the knowledge its about interpretation! Most of the questions are riddles to figure out. Its more like sitting reasoning tests than knowledge exmainations!

People knew the gen but couldnt handle the questioning style, thats where the Question bank is like pure gold!! Well done Alex and Bristol

:ok:

I think the ATPL theory is only hard if you dont want to study
 

Read the topic

Discuss.

Apples and Oranges
 

I'm sorry but that has to be the most absurd statement I have ever heard.

ATPL theory to many is extremely difficult and many simply cannot get their heads around the various topics.

Whereas others may have a problem in learning off many many rules/ laws figures etc that seem totally unneccesary and irrelevant to the modern day commercial airline pilot.

On the other hand there are the type of people that can learn anything given the time.

That is why I believe it is impossible to either agree or disagree 100% with this statement.

There are too many different types of people out there with different aptitudes for different aspects of learning to sweep all with the one brush.

Take another look at the subjects and realise the difference between studyin for Air Law/ Comms etc and compare them to studying for Instruments/ Radio Nav etc.

Apples and Oranges my friend.

I think..............................discuss
 

And what exactly are we meant to be discussing here? and what a first post! That has to be up there with some of the absolute gems from xxx147.

Any in depth subject is likely to be rather difficult if an individual refuses to read through the material that explains it!

:mad: :mad:

I believe the groundschool is so intense and filled with such apparently 'useless' information, so as to filter out the people who really shouldn't be chasing this fantastic career!!
Yes its hard, and the only people that get all the way through it are the people that REALLY want the career!!

Bit of a weird statement at the top though!!!

I think the fact that many many people pass the ATPL exams after a bit of work with averages in the low-mid 90s tells you that the exams are not hard if you put your mind to them and have a moderate level of academic ability.... why is that so controversial??
You should try professional accounting or medical exams.... those can be very tough

Can we claim the old stereotype here? Little Johnny (or Jenny) not wanting to go to Uni and not really sure what they want in life, spring upon the idea of doing an ATPL (PPL/ATPL paid for by parents) as a way of making money and doing...something. However when it comes to doing the theory the usual issues of maturity, experience and dedication ensue.

Well, it can't be that hard if (presumably) you can take time out from your studies to post pointless & patronising "Discuss" threads on PPRuNe, 13375p34k....

Average pass mark rises as questions seep out into wwww
 

Well there is a lot to learn but the average pass mark is very high for most schools. (>90)

Its a little easier now that the question banks are available electronically the www is a great tool for self directed learning

No negative marking as there used to be in the UK; and no morse exam

As for medicine that requires high grades to enter flying requires none just determination

A good question and one I asked myself when I was on my full-time groundschool course. Considering that we'd all paid £6000 for the privilege I was surprised how the class divided into two approximately equal halves - one half who studied their asses off and one who had no interest in learning whatsoever. The second lot were only interested in thinking about the IR they were going to do further down the line, and saw the groundschool merely as an inconvenient hurdle on the path to the airlines. Many people may consider the ATPL theory to be essentially packed full of irrelevant nonsense, but we still all have to pass it, so what's the point in complaining.

It may be worth pointing out that at least one of the people who didn't study was still trying to pass his exams two years after the first of us passed!

TB

Heh, sounds familiar!!! Were you in my class recently, TB?

Trouble is with full-time classroom study, the disruptive lot spoils the efforts for those who need to study their arses off in order to get a decent chance of passing first time. Distance-learning is an advantage in this respect.

the ATPL theory is hard, but it certainly is not impossible to pass if you study. i passed flight planning on my first attempt just the other day, and im sitting performance next monday.

we'll see how it works out but its not THAT difficult.

however i agree with token bird, the classes are very much divided into two halves. very interesting :hmm: