no problem, good luck! :ok:

Is it the IR where you need a certain number of hours?

From JAR-FCL 1.190 :

An applicant for an IR(A) shall hold a PPL(A) including a night qualification or CPL(A) and shall have completed at least 50 hours cross-country flight time as pilot-in-command in aeroplanes or helicopters of which at least 10 hours shall be in aeroplanes.

Cya, MC

i was recommended to do the hour building (100hrs P1, 150 total) first before the atpl ground school after i had done my ppl. As then as soon as youve finished the atpl exams your into CPL and IR and no worries about the exams validity running out.

Ive done it that way around and seems to be working well, about to start the atpl exams next month.

Scottie.

i did it the other way, ppl straight into atpl groundschool then hour building practising then straight into cpl/ir, better for me as then i knew i could pass the exams before wasting money on hourbuilding and also having done the exams i could just concemtrate on the fun part and had better continuity from hour building to cpl/ir

fair point, depends entirely which way round you look at everything in the long run, either way it all gets done! :)

i did the hour building first to make the most of the weather to go into the groundschoolover the autumn and into the winter, seemed the best way to work round, especially doing the hour building over here in the UK

Scottie

absolutely, everybody keeps looking for a right or a wrong way instead of a way that suits them, all down to personal circumstances really.

Short JAA ATPL theory course?
 

Hi everyone, I have a frozen ATPL in Oz and also want to get a CPL in Europe/UK. Does anyone know of anyone running shorter ATPL courses for people who already have some theory background. Maybe even correspondence courses.
Thanks! :)

As far as I know there aren't any short cuts for people in your position. Pilots converting who have 1000's of hours in multi crew aircraft may find that they are exempt of the classroom element of the ATPL groundschool but that probably wouldn't apply in your case. Instead you are left with 2 options. First one is a residential course which will take you about 6 months of being at school 5 days a week sitting the 14 exams over anything from 2, 3 or 4 sittings depending on the school. Second option is to do it distance learning or correspondence as you refer to in your post. I would say the majority of us do it distance learning. Generally speaking you work at your own pace and then when you feel ready book yourself into a brush up course a few weeks prior to the exams. All 14 of the exams run every month so again it is down to personal choice as to when you do them. You get 6 sittings in total, 3 attempts at each one and 18 months to pass all 14 from the date of the first attempt at the exams.

Below is a link to LASORS which is a hefty UK CAA publication. Section J has information on the ATPL exams. In the other sections you will find the requirements for converting your ICAO CPL and IR to JAA as well.

The CAA website has a list of the approved ground school providers. A search here on pprune will give you weeks of reading as this topic is generally debated on an almost daily basis. Bristol tends to get most peoples votes and they have an online database that you can access for a fee that has questions that are remarkably like those found in the actual exams. No wonder then why they get so many punters through the door.:)

LASORS

Thanks for your advice potkettleblack. Looks like correspondence is the way to go for me. :)

Which ATPL(A) Study Books?
 

I intend to self-study and take the 14 ATPL(A) written examinations. :ugh:

Any recommendations on which books/notes are best for the self-study route?

Any feedback on the Atlantic Flight Training books (a.k.a. Jeppesen JAA ATPL training books)?

Cheers.

Its not clear from your post if you are exempt from attending an approved course or not? If not you need to enrol with the likes of Bristol, Cabair, Oxford et al and they will provide you with a full set of notes. Then when it comes time to sitting the exams you attend a 2 week brush up course to prepare you and then you sit them at one of the CAA examination centres.

I would recommend Bristol whether you are exempt or not and when you are ready sign up to the Bristol database (50 quid for 3 months access) which you will give access to a question bank that looks remarkably similar to the real questions you will come across:)

Do a search on the above and read the sticky at the top of this forum to find out all you need to know.

Yes you cannot "self study" and sit the exams, you must sign up with an approved provider and complete the course work required. There are approved JAA providers in both Orlando and Naples FL.

I think I qualify for self-study using "LASORS G1.5 Note 1". :ugh:

I understand this exemption will allow me to sit all 14 ATPL(A) exams without attending a formal course and take a type rating skills test on the aircraft I’m currently flying.

Being a typical pilot I am just looking for the least expensive way to study for these exams.:)

PS: There is an examination centre in Florida that Naples and the other US approved schools use although I understand there is an agreement with the CAA that it is for their students sole use. You might be able to sit your exams there although no doubt they will want some cash off you and save some cash on flights back to the UK. Also the exam centre will only be running when their students are due to sit their exams so it might not suit you very well.

My ATPL course uses Atlantic ATPL notes in some subjects, they seem ok but are not the best notes that I have ever used!

Yes some of the AFT Jepp still needs revision, not sure about Bristol comparitively but I bet they aren't perfect!

Drop the Personnel Licencing people at Gatwick a line about your exemption to double-check.

Just to quote the relevant sources

LASORS

On the CAA theory exam application form, in lieu of no FTO, you have to sign off you are exempt under JAR 1.016(b) hence

http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/licensing.html

I'm probably going to go with Bristol for the ATPL distance learning. They have a very good package of traditional manuals, online question bank and computer software with animations etc which should help more with those more technical subjects.

JAA ATPL theory content
 

Hi All
Just wondering if the content of the ATPLs' stays fairly constant i.e if I start studying now would the study be out dated (or partially outdated) if I sit the exams in 18months to 2 years time?

The question being, does the CAA change the content of the exams on a regular basis or does anyone know if there an intention to do so?

Cheers

It would be partially outdated. Regulations change as do the questions, however some things remain the same...

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question.../lift/eq01.gif

:8 :ok:

Finding Atpl study Time
 

Hi, I hope to start My ATPL Studies with BGS.

though work 9 - 5 in London. very busy.

To those who have faced and conquered the same challenges or in the same boat

How did you do it plan on doing , How many hrs a week did you put in how long did it take to pass the 1st Mod. Is it overambitious to to aim to complete both mods in a year.. Im just trying to get a feel for the realities of what im about to embark on..

cheers

Bilbob ....

ATPL
 

BILLbob HELLO!!!

Nothing is overambitious when you have the passion,motivation and courage to sit down and study!! The good thing about the ATPL is their variety and of course the content!! Everyday u elarn something new about the nature procedures and aircraft systems!! I f u really like or even better love these things you will not face any problem!!

Good time organization and following yourown schedule will give a first time good time pass!! Its not the eaiest thing but on the other hand is not rocket science too!!

EXAMPLE: im doing my ATPL GROUND in-house and i need roughly 2 hours a day self-study. if u can find 4 or better 4 1/2 you will be fine !! And make sure u make the most of your weekends!!

any questions?

have a nice start my friend!!!!!:D

ATPL Hardest Subjects?
 

Having made good progress so far through the groundschool frames...am wandering if any subjects stand out as being especially difficult? I've heard Met and Performance (haven't got to them yet)...would appreciate other views...
Cheers.

Gen nav and Met are definately the harder ones..

Agreed - Gen Nav & met. Really struggled with time on the Gen Nav exam, you have to work pretty quickly to get everything finished within the time allowed so keep an eye on the clock. Met I also really struggled with, found the subject interesting and thought I understood everything but the questions they ask you in the exam are a nightmare! Thought I was good at decoding TAFs etc but they are phrased in such a way they are difficult to decide which answer to go for, as someone told me - go for the least wrong answer.
As you have probably heard a zillion times before - use the briston question bank, also the oxford met CD I found really useful.
Good luck!

Definitely Met, it's such a huge and involved subject you really do need to have a pretty good understanding of what's going on and how it all fits together. I was lucky to have a legendary instructor for groundschool brushups. Gen Nav I don't find especially difficult, but everything's very time-consuming and I get the impression this is what gives trouble in the exam.
Anyway, we shall find out next week...

Im having problems with all the calculations and graphs involved in flight planning. Performance graphs are also messing me up. It seems to be common consensus that Gen Nav and Met are the bad boys. At the moment I would rather take Gen Nav or met again than flight planning!!

I found most of the ATPL’s (except Comms) challenging in different ways.
I have listed them in order of how challenged I felt in preparing for each exam.
Flight Planning
G. Nav
Met
Performance
Principles Of Fright
Air Law (How Interesting!)
Instruments
R. Nav.
Operational procedures
Human Perf.
Aircraft Gen.
Mass & Balance
Comms
I and many of my fellow class mates found flight planning tough, you can pass as most of us did with almost full marks but you really must ensure there are no questions types you are not familiar with and do all the feedback you can get hold of. Failing that work through all, yes all of the Bristol online questions in order and ensure you can do 60 flight planning questions in less than two hours! You get three hours in the real exam but I found it was the quickest three hours in my life, seemed like 40 mins at the time - who said time flys when you are having fun!
General Nav - I had been warned about this subject before I ever picked the book up so was worried about it from the start, again time goes quickly but I found it OK with most of the syllabus covered but questions mainly more straight forward than I had prepared for.
Met - I was disappointed with the exam as the questions were mainly global climatology based with only one or two on icing, thunderstorms etc. Massive subject which you could spend years looking at on its own.
I found the graphs in Plight Planning & Performance hard work especially under pressure, again do as many As you can get hold of.
You can know the subject inside out but you really need lots of practice in how questions are asked and are quick in your decision on how to tackle the question and stick with your first answer.
I found studying until I lost them will to live did the trick! Study technique is key to these exams.
Good luck to all of you.
Cheers………

Met and Gen Nav? are you guys mad!! lol. They are actually interesting and thats half the battle won!! Airlaw is the worst! It is just so mind blowingly boring that its just impossible to revise!

Thank god that the ATPL exams are just a distant memory lol. Starting MCC on thursday, can't wait :ok:

MET!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AARRRGGGGHHHHH.

Failed Met first time around. I quite enjoyed it as well but failed by 2%, on the other hand I found G-NAV the most difficult and passed with 92% (which I thought I'd failed) :ugh:

Oh well, thank god its got nothing do to with the real world. :ok:

Some of your first-studied subjects are the hardest regardless of what they are. This is because you have to develop your brain into study-mode. I sweated over Ops and Instruments because of this, but looking back I reckon I would get better marks now.

I would say Air Law without the Question Bank would be nigh-on impossible. Jolly decent that the questions are therefore in the public domain :) :)

Met is one subject where you have to be able to recreate the picture in order to visualise then answer the question. Using Bristol's Question Bank will soon have you spotting commonly-asked subject areas. Crack these and you should get a pass.

Gen Nav is very mathsy. You need a good teacher also to show you the different chart projections, go through convergency and crack stereographs. After that the other elements are relatively easier. Work at it and the penny will eventually drop.

Perf/PoF are also concept based and it is one of those subjects where the UK exam setters seem to be, comparitively-speaking, actively introducing new questions. Two tough little nuts to crack.

Having said that Mass and Balance only has a few concepts to grasp and is nto that hard to pick up. However the total makrs on the paper donlt add up to much so you have a slim amount of questions to get wrong. On this account, I guess you could say M&B is a tough one. My lowest score so far (83%).

Flight Planning? Some M&B fuel/loading guff, PET/PSR formulae and chart techniquefrom Gen Nav, thereof you have most of the answers in the Jeppy manual :p

Well, I was beginning to feel confident there for a second until I read the posts! I am generally reading the notes, making notes, doint a set of Qs and hitting over 80%...but I've only done half of Insts, all of Hydraulics, and half of DC Elec...sounds like they're just the appertisers...
okay now I'm worried!!:uhoh: :uhoh:

Thanks anyway for the informative replies so far!!:ok:

When you've finished the material, get busy with Bristol - if you can do everything in there, you'll pass. Do it over and over and over again. Then do it a couple more times. Then do the questions you weren't sure about again. And again. You get the idea...

Is it an advantage if you have a diplome for physics? Or is it possible to pass the subjects with less knowledge of physics?

Hi
i only had GCSE grade C in Physics....i managed to pass all 14 exams first time with my lowest mark 86% i think off the top of my head....so in answer to your question...YES! its possible
however obv a more complex understanding of the subject WILL make it so much easier and simpler to comprehend. I found myself having to spend many extra hours compared to others to get my level of knowledge upto scratch! :8

As regards difficult subject...it depends how you approach them - if you are simply doing it from the books then for me Air Law is so boring i find it impossible to read and take in! haha

If however your doing a lot of feedback - ie Bristol or other means. I would have to agree that Gen nav and Met are very challenging.
(airlaw is much easier doing quesitons!!!)

adam

ATPL Theory / Full-time Work
 

Question for anyone who has done ATPL theory whilst in full-time employment...how many hours study per weekday did you average?

Just looking for a frame of reference with which to guage my own progress.

Cheers.

atpl theory
 

A buddy of mine was working 8-4 and revising 6-12midnight. Said it was the most stressful 10 months of his life, proud to have got through it, but wouldn't again.
I suppose its down to natural absorbtion levels and time available. People have juggled work/family/atpls many times before, I feel that this is out of absolute necessity though.

Rossco

I had always planned for 3 hours a night, but that just became impossible. I did manage between 1.5 to 3 hours a night more commonly 2. I was also working about 50 hour weeks at the office. Unfortunately it meant that I spent a good 6 hours on Saturday catching up. Hope that helps.

As Rosco said, you do it out of necessity. If you have a choise dont work full time and study, unless you know that you have SUPER DICIPLINE and a very understanding wife. I dont have the dicipline to sitt and study after a long day of work (but I do have the best womman in the world) so now I have to take a bite of the soure apple (swedish saying).
At the moment im working part-time to be able to finnish my exams in time and since part-time= half pay the next month wont be that much fun...
If you decide to work full time and do the ATPL I would recomend at least three hours a day and the whole weekend. Get a question bank from the start, it helps a lot.
Well, enough time spent on internet, back to Air Law...
D.

It is not the amount of time that is important but the quality of time.

When I started I thought three hours a night was fine. I soon found out that after a couple of hours the third hour was a waste of time because I was tired.

Try it out for yourself. Dont be too worried about counting the hours. If you worried about the Distance learning timesheet you need to complete then put any thing on it.
The aim is to learn and the time that takes varies with everyone.