i passed them all about 4 years ago, but i hated mass & balance.

i just did not like the calculations and therefore did not spend much time on it, and you know what happens then, you fail it and have to spend even more time on it!

mass & balance....what a horrible subject!

For me it was MET and POF. I liked both subjects (kind off!!), but found them really hard to pass. It was a great feeling when the results came through and I had got them, still cant belive it!! :ok:

Definitely Gen Nav. The only one with serious time pressure.

Hardest Exams
 

Hi,

For me the I though Met would be hard but I used the PGT feedback questions and found Met to be easier.

Gen Nav, Flight Planning and Law which I have filed twice, 72 & 74%.

Anyone have any tips for the above.

Thanks

looking back at it(and this is such a nice place to be:)...
i think the trickiest subjects are Met and Air Law
I had to re-sit instruments twice, but that was more down to poor preparation and complacency on my part than anything.
i don't think that it is a difficult subject-I got 73% in my first two sittings!!:O twasn't nice...

i think the other subjects have a rhyme and reason to them. There is logic behind gen nav, mass and balance, flight planning etc...but i found with met and air law, there was masses and masses of information to trawl through and a lot of it esp. in air law was contradictory to what we were being taught in ops procedures...i have to be honest and say that after doing these two subjects, i am not really any the wiser for it because of the volume of information and bascially that it was a huge pain in the tits to get through.

For me, the hardest subjects to prepare for were Op's and Law, simply because there seemed to be a 1001 seperate facts to learn/memorise. However, those subjects that involved the use of numbers i.e M+B, GNAV and Flight Planning, I found very easy, which I fail to understand as to why people seem scared of these subjects, especially GNAV. One thing I noticed whilst doing the groundschool / studying was that people just gave up on GNAV and decided that it was too difficult without actually sitting down and attempting the feedback. There really is'nt much to it beyond memorising a few formula and getting to grips with the wizz-wheel. Practice, practice and practice as they say.

The96er

I thought Perf & PoF were tough, however I did pass them both first time (75% only), and I did fail others, down to going too fast and not fully understanding the basics first, once I did that it all came togeather, Thankfully!

Hey All,

Im in the middle of my study at the moment and i have to say i find PoF and instrument the hardest. Met can also be difficult but it is just a matter of getting the head down and studying!!

Gud Luck:O

Performance for me!


But dont forget if you havent sat any yet....goes for comms aswell they maybe easy but with fewer questions on the paper you cant afford to get many wrong so dont think comms is easy - do some study for it or you will fail!!!!! :ok:

Hi folks,
Sorry for taking this thread slightly sideways,but does anybody have any clue as to what percentage of people pass their atpls first time? I had to re-take 4 but lots of people i speak to got them all straight away.Are they telling porkies or am i just thick?

cheers
pp

PP, have a look at;
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/175/UK%20JAR-FCL%20ATPL(A).pdf

I agree with Jinkster, I got 83% on IFR which means that I could just afford to have one more question wrong.

I found M&B and GNAV relatively easy while I fear meteorology and POF which are still to come. I guess that it is related to my lack of interest in physics.

Although only a small part of one subject, my nemesis was Electrics. Ended up getting 70 first time in AGK because the CAA decided to throw in 3 times the usual number of Electrics questions.

Also, I must admit that despite passing subjects such as Radio Nav, Instruments and Met first time, this was primarily because I managed to remember the feedback and not because of some inherent understanding of the material. I think the current exam process is flawed.

You would say that you Phantom! You failed it!! you should spend less time down Belushi's with Adrian.... The process is beautiful. Play the game my friend....

Hey, will you need me for Flight Planning this week - i scored a cool 96% in that one - don't ask me how!!

you still didn't manage any 100s you feedback phantom!

Stop perving on here and get back to revising for your resits!

not a bad suggestion, these flight Planning graphs are wrecking my head! any grinds available? Listening to your scanner in the garden?

Current stats say Gen Nav and Met are hardest, Performance has it moments, but as I'm Heli I didn't have to take it:D

Law just dull

Hooters, you have a PM! :ok:

Still on Module 1 at BGS so haven't had the "pleasure" of law yet. Right now instuments is giving me some grief - it's hard to work everything out in my mind when the only aircraft I get to look in is an old PA28 without any computers.

Met is quite interesting (apart from Climatology) because it's all around you. Is it raining today? Yes, why? Because a polar front depression has crept down (usually pushed up North due to the ITCZ in summer) and I'm sitting under a warm sector :(

Anyone attending the BGS brush-up course for Module 1 on 22Aug then exams at Silsoe 5,6,7,8 Sep?

G-ANDY

Piece of P*ss
 

To CarbHeatIn and Out,

Cannot believe how one could fail AGK this was one of the easiest subjects. Also who finds performance hard!

Phantom how could you not get 100% in VFR comms honestly!!!!

I think the CAA should make these exams harder give us a real challenge!!!

I feels sorry that you feel the CAA cheated you out of your pass because there were too many Electrics Questions.

Maybe this will be a lesson to spend more time studying and LESS TIME ON FACE PARTY & RATE MY CAMEL TOE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JAA ATPL Theory Study
 

Hello,

Is it possible to do the ATPL theory examinations first, before embarking on any of the practical training?

I think this is a sensible option so that the practical phase can flow without too much interruption, I have the funds available to do all the training and i am thinking of the following schedule:

1) Complete ATPL theory exams
2) USA -> JAA PPL/Night/IMC & hour build & ppl exams
3) UK -> JAA CPL/IR / ME / MCC

A further question would be is there a time limit between passing the exams and completing the practical training - so in other words becoming the holder of a fATPL?

I really want to get my plan right before i begin my training :)

Any help/suggestions would be most appreciated.

Many Thanks.

Nice idea but you need a PPL before you can do the ATPL exams.

In addition to holding a PPL before starting the ATPL theory (and remember the PPL has its own theory exams), you must get your CPL and your IR within 36 months of completing the ATPL theory.

Once you have acquired your CPL and IR, you must ensure that your IR does not lapse by more than 7 years, otherwise the theory exams expire and you will not be able to upgrade your frozen ATPL to a full ATPL without re-sitting them.

FFF
---------------

Simply, no. If you are doing your training modular then you need to have a ICAO PPL before you start the ATPL exams. The only way you can do the exams first is if you go integrated (and still some schools don't do all the exams first).

There is a time limit to the exams as well. You have 36 months from passing your exams to gaining your IR. After that you have to resit all your exams.

Note that the answers given so far probably refer to the UK CAA, other member states of JAA may suggest differently - but then again, is this strictly true?

Do you HAVE to have a PPL before being allowed to sit the ATPL exams on a modular course. (References?).

I know many, if not all of, the groundschools say that you must have a PPL as their pre-entry requirements - but I bet if you turned up with £1700 (or whatever it costs this year), they would let you join - especially distance learning.

As Blinkz said, you can certainly do the theory first on an integrated course - so sign up with Oxford then, after passing the exams, cancel the course?

Note that if you do manage to do the theory first you will be exempt from taking the PPL papers later - you would just need the Radio telephony practical test if going for a UK issued licence.

Only other change I would suggest is to do the ME course whilst hour building "stateside".

Actually, from looking at your list - I would have done PPL, 40 hours hour build in USA, Multi Engine rating in USA, 20 hours hour build in UK, Multi Engine Instrument rating, finish with multi engine CPL. Assuming first time passes in everything and in minimum hours, you would be just 18 hours short of applying for modular CPL.

All finished within 6 months of starting the flying - so 12 months from starting full time ground school - and the cheapest modular way.

If you haven't done so already get the class 1 medical out of the way. There is no point in doing anything if you can't pass that.

DB6 -> Pleased to report that i received Class 1 Medical Certificate in the post on Friday - so that's the first step, of many, accomplished.:)

It seems generally that i should really do the JAA PPL first before embarking on the ATPL ground exams, for the reason of ensuring that the validity of the ATPL Examinations is not thrown in to question at a later stage even though Keygrip & Blinkz raised a very interesting point regarding the integrated method.

From what i can gather though, and please correct me if i am wrong, the distance learning portion of the ATPL must be done in a certain way. For instance at Bristol there are two exam periods. I consider myself to have a high aptitude for learning and have been revising the ATPL subjects for some time so would i be able to take the exams sooner - say within 2 months of starting the distance learning?

The ATPL theoretical phase seems to be the longest phase in the training and with my pre-course revision i was hoping that i could reduce the total time needed for the ATPL Exams. Just a thought - maybe i am being a bit too optimistic.

Thank you all for your advice - it really is a great comfort to have such helpful people when some of the things in aviation seem so complex - so thank you all once again - it really means a lot.

2 months sounds a little too early, it is alot of information to remember..


Good luck with your training :ok:

For clarity, you must have an ICAO PPL before you start your groundschool course. It is a JAA requirement. The CAA will definitely refuse your exam application and may insist that you start your studies again if you don't have a PPL.

Alex, Thank you.

Are you with Bristol GS?

If so do you know if it is possible to do the exams within lets say 2 months of starting the distance learning? -> if i feel ready.

Obviously once i have a ICAO PPL.

In fact,you might say Alex is Bristol Groundschool, but that would be unfair to the team. Alex has his hands full at this moment, so I'll give you a holding answer.

The JAA require a distance course to have a minimum number of hours spent in home study and in face-to-face classroom study. That is why we have the 2 week classroom periods for each half of the course

Based on your performance on the progress tests at home and at Cheddar we have to sign you off to the CAA as up to a reasonable standard

You could theoretically do the distance learning in two months, but it would be huge job. You can't avoid the classroom bit, and as we run the first half and second half brush-ups concurently you couldn't do both in one two week period. You could wait one month and do the next, however.

Exams are sheduled by the CAA at the begining of each month, so you go straight from the brush-up to the exams. I think trying to do all fourteen in one week would be a touch hard. Even half one month and the rest in the nexr month would be pretty tough.

So, in summary, you can't short cut the CAA trequirements, but you might be able to pack the whole lot in in a short time. More like four months than two.

I'll leave it to others who have done the course to tell you how hard it is,and how long ordinary mortals take

Leave it a few days then call Alex at Bristol for his advice

Dick W

Dick,

Thank you for your comments and suggestions. Would i be able to purchase the course materials and begin working through those without proceeding to the exam phase at this stage?

I am thinking i could revise the materials further in my spare time whilst doing my PPL and then once i am in a position to officially submit myself for the examinations and step up the revision i could do this at an appropriate time - i.e once i hold an ICAO PPL.

Many thanks.
AHMC

yes that is how it works, i'm enrolled at bristol and you buy the course and then book the 2 week crammer course when you feel you are ready.

Mcgoo,

Thank you for your reply.

How are you finding the theory?

I am hoping to buy the materials and prepare myself for an examination date approx 2-3 months after i obtain my PPL which will be in approx 1 months time.

Do you think this is realistic based your experience? and/or what would you suggest?

Many Thanks,
AHMC

i must admit i'm finding the theory a bit tough, i got my PPL in November in the US and bought the course in December although with christmas and new year i didn't really start until mid January, then rather foolishly i think i booked my 2 week revision course for April to set myself a target, i now realise this may be far too soon, the actual material isn't really that difficult it's just the sheer volume of it that you have to remember. Now i am studying very hard to get ready for exams, i have 4 progress tests left to do, then i will go through all the material again and work through the question bank.

Ill have my JAA/CAA PPL soon...
Then my plan is to work for 2 years saving money until im 21,then do the ATPL exams,ME IR,MCC.
As im stuck for ££££'s, would it be wiser to do all flight training and atpl exams in florida etc??
Whats a ruff cost for gaining a FATPL???MODULAR route i mean cause id never be able to fund the oxford route etc.
What airlines in europe give free type ratings?
Thanks...:ok:

Time!
 

Whats the rush? there seems to be a big rush to complete the training (just a formality attitude!) in lots of these threads, I'm not talking about any threads in particlar just noticed lots of people who claim not to have done any flying yet talking about when and on what day they will pass the IR skill test and can I run before crawling etc. Why not relax and try to enjoy the experience we may learn something!

JUST-local

well the rush for me is that i am 31 and so have not got the luxury of taking my time and slowly progressing, through training, and also the amount of money that pilot training costs is another factor, while a lot of people on here harp on through rose tinted glasses about "follow your dreams", "being a pilot is my destiny" blah, blah, blah. While i agree with these sentiments and having suffered many setbacks and worked hard to get this far, the cold, hard facts are i want to finish training, gain employment (in any form of flying)and start getting a return on my investment as soon as possible!

Hi Just-Local,

Thank you for your comments and valid points raised.

From my planning there appears to be many factors which influence the speed and completion of training. These can be such things as aptitude, financial resources, weather, family commitments and training organisation to name but a few.

For me personally - i have a high aptitude for learning and do not wish to be held back when i could be learning more theory or practical elements. For me financial resources are there but are limited, as i suspect with most student pilots, and the more time spent training means more cost to me ultimately down the line.

I agree with you that one should not, under any circumstances, rush through training and possibly miss vital knowledge/experience but i also think that one should not linger or dawdle as continuity of training helps to re-enforce critical information.

That's what my planning shows anyway. I am sure there will be modifications along the way.;)

For me - i know where i want to get to (Point B) and have planned accordingly from where i am now (Point A) but i am sure that with the best will in the world in between A & B will require various modifications and replannings along the way but eventually i will reach point B. With this in mind i personally wouldn't dream of attempting to put a date on completion of a specific point of training and i agree with you on this.

nobody panic!
 

Yes I agree with most of your points, but you have to be realistic, you cannot microwave the training ! I'm 28 and am a fair way off being a commercial pilot by any strech, will achive it but don't have the day marked in the diary!

Best of luck with the training.

JUST-local