Why do supermarkets sell the same product at 2 or 3 different prices when they are clearly the same product in different packaging? People are stupid.

For supermarkets, because they will charge what the market will bear, but even here, the price difference is not double. So are you saying people who go to the big 3 are stupid, end of discussion?

No. There are certain airlines which will only recruit from them (for some reason) - but for someone aiming for Flybe or Ryanair where it certainly doesn't matter at the moment - throwing away an extra £60-80k definitely raises questions.

Do you know a good ATPL school?
 

Hi everyone! I've just finished my PPL and I'm looking for a good ATPL school anywhere in Europe. I want to avoid low quality cheating schools (who just take your money, without proper training). Please give me some suggestions, how to compare the schools! If you have any personal experience, please let know!
Thank you!

Someone brought this up recently -- hour-building. He said that the chaps he knew (UK or at least EU) needed at least 1,000hrs before flying for airlines and I said unless I'm very, very wrong in my understanding, I believe airlines now hire just after flight school or modular training so 200-250 or 300hrs and you can get a job at Flybe or Ryanair or any other airline, right?

Cheers for that!

All,

I am in my early thirties, in full time employment but looking for a career change. I am based in the UK. I have spent a bit of time interpreting and understanding the costs for my own benefit and thought I’d share my work. In the PDF attachement below is a summary document that details the different training routes and associated costs.

These costings and comparisons are my judgement only and should not be used to actually inform any decisions! Go and talk to a financial adviser!

My costings are specific to my situation and particularly note that:

· I have a mortgage therefore any accommodation costs will be in addition to this.

· My job currently pays ~£45,000pa. Doing a full time training course would obviously stop me earning.

There are three flavours of training that I have considered:

• Integrated ATPL that is not part of a cadet programme
• Integrated MPL as part of generation easyJet cadet programme
• Modular ATPL

The integrated ATPL is the course at Oxford. The Integrated MPL with generation easyJet cadet programme is the L3 course. I have based the modular costs on various posted costings and Flying Time Aviation.

On the easyJet MPL course there is a training bond of £69,000 that MAY get paid back to you over the course of 7 to 9 years (if you are based in the UK). I have very little further information on this but I have included as a consideration at face value.

It’s worth noting as well that I think in a lot of the proposed costings put forward on this thread for a modular ATPL they omit the cost of MCC and type rating, although many allude to the fact they have a lot of money left over (compared to an integrated course) to complete it.

For both the integrated routes without cadet programme and the modular ATPL a lot of the posts seem to forget to consider the “down” time between finishing the training and getting a pilot job. This is obviously mitigated somewhat if you stay in current employment while training (on a modular course) as you aren’t necessarily “losing” anything (still getting paid £45,000pa) but if you enter in to training without a job you have the uncertainty at the end of training and potentially a significant period where you aren’t earning. A year out of employment would quickly make the costs significantly higher when looked at as a whole.

The big thing that I haven’t accounted for is loan repayment costs, particularly interest. This is obviously a major flaw in the “total cost” value. I have assumed that the costs are based on self funding up front. Again, talk to a financial adviser.


In summary:

Actually comparing the costs in my calculations you can see that for me the modular route is much cheaper (£84,000 compared to £180,000+). However, this assumes that I can complete the modular course all while working full time. I think it’s doable but would be challenging! I think for anyone already in employment, particularly with a significant salary, it doesn’t make any sense to go down the integrated route. Instead if you keep your current job while going down the modular route is by far the most sensible option. What I think is interesting is that by my calculations the total cost of training for a modular course at £84,000 isn’t as significant a difference to the integrated MPL course training cost at £100,000 as many would have you believe.

For a young person with no other financial commitments and no significant income yet I could see how a cadet based integrated MPL course could actually be the most attractive option. Especially given that there is a semi-guaranteed job at the end (with associated guaranteed salary), there is no double accounting for accommodation (you have to live somewhere) and the possibility of some of the training costs being repaid to you via the training bond (maybe?!). Obviously this raises the issue of a young person with no significant income being able to raise the funds!

I see absolutely no benefit in undertaking an integrated course that ISN’T a cadet course, either ATPL or MPL. You have all of the negative costs without any of the guaranteed employment at the end (even noting the links that the training centres have to place students in to airline jobs at the end). In addition, a review of the available jobs shows a significant reduction in the number of airlines that employ newly qualified pilots, for example easyJet requires a minimum of 500 hours, therefore employment as a new pilot is really only available via the cadet programme.

The final thing to mention is of course non-financial considerations. For me, with a house, wife and commitments in the UK, swanning off for a few months to go flying in NZ/Europe and training in London/Oxford isn’t actually that appealing. This is a further draw to the modular approach where I can choose my training locations.

Hi Negan,

My costings do assume a fATPL costs about £54k based on training in the UK (which is a little bit more than training in Europe). I've assumed £30k for a A320 type rating to get to the £84k total for a modular course. The idea is that gives equivalent qualifications to the easyJet MPL cadet scheme where you are type rated ready for line flying. Unfortunatley, it's very difficult to find an accurate value for the type rating so that's a bit of an approximate value.

Hi, clearly you're doing your homework and youryo at the 'figuring out of this is a good idea' stage - so allow me to pay devils advocate.

1 - don't even think about any of it until you have a class one medical in your hand and a trial lesson or two under your belt.

2 - this career does favour the young and adventurous. If you don't like the idea of 'swanning off' - is this the career for you? The golden rule is you apply for every job and take the first one offered, where ever that happens to be. And if that happens to be Flybe then you'll be looking at a £10k pay cut for a while.

3 - Doing it all part time is a great idea, if you can work, study, sleep, repeat. As soon as you throw in any kind of a life and family, it all goes to rat-**** so one of those is going to suffer. You want to be a pilot - which means you'll be getting a divorce soon anyway.

4 - The current job climate is the best there has been for decades - paying for a type rating should be consigned to the dustbin of history by the time you get through.

FTE Jerez...Worth?
 

** DELETED **

To Potential Pilot,
Take on board what "rudestuff" has said below.
If you can make your "Modular" plan work - and it will be tough going - there will be a lot of domestic upheaval involved when you do eventually get your first job as it will be more than likely that you will have to move to be near your job or fund local accommodation on a smaller salary than you are currently on. Does your wife also have a career? Will she be prepared to move and also to live on much less money? Is it worth all of this just to fly a plane? Look hard at the last part of item 3. You sound as if you are doing just fine on £45K and you could just do a PPL with add on ratings then get a group share in a plane close to your home and fly when you want to - not when you are told to. Airline rosters play havoc with a personal life and you will be flying (its just a job at the end of the day) at all sorts of times of the day and maybe not be at home for special occasions.
This career is really only suitable for young and single people.
Take heed![

QUOTE=rudestuff;10245518]Hi, clearly you're doing your homework and your at the 'figuring out of this is a good idea' stage - so allow me to pay devils advocate.

1 - don't even think about any of it until you have a class one medical in your hand and a trial lesson or two under your belt.

2 - this career does favour the young and adventurous. If you don't like the idea of 'swanning off' - is this the career for you? The golden rule is you apply for every job and take the first one offered, where ever that happens to be. And if that happens to be Flybe then you'll be looking at a £10k pay cut for a while.

3 - Doing it all part time is a great idea, if you can work, study, sleep, repeat. As soon as you throw in any kind of a life and family, it all goes to rat-**** so one of those is going to suffer. You want to be a pilot - which means you'll be getting a divorce soon anyway.

4 - The current job climate is the best there has been for decades - paying for a type rating should be consigned to the dustbin of history by the time you get through.[/QUOTE]

Hello All,

I’m trying to gather various information on schools to start my PPL with with the vision of going on to do the other modules. I already have a class 1 and am stuck between a few schools.

Does anyone have any information on flyteam.hu? They are a small outfit operating out of Hungary who seem to have the time to devote to me wanting to do the module in one bash and offer distance learning that is imperative for my job.

Also worth mentioning that the price is decent as well.

Cheers.

Just take it one step at a time...do your PPL, see how you feel, and how much money you have, and then go from there. The only "job quitting" point is after ATPL theory and hours building. By that point you will have a better idea of the market, and if you're doing all those courses and spending all that money, you'll want a job flying at the end of it any way, and not hal your foot in the door and half out....the ratings expire etc. So I think it is best to plan for not going back to your current job after it. Well that is my plan at the moment any way.

Out of interest how old are you? Mid 25 + waiting 5 years is 30, and OK. Any older, and I would say don't wait 5 years. I am 28, and hope to finish by 30...I feel like I'm on the old side for sure.

Thank you for the advice, I've taken a few days to think things through and simply going for a PPL at this point makes good sense. It'll give me an idea of what sort of workload to expect, and will likely function as a good "aptitude test" in it's own way.

I've always wanted to fly recreationally anyway. In five years I'd be nearly 32, scary how quickly time passes by.

Knowing my luck, if I did go down the modular route, the big airlines would probably open up the fully sponsored route again...

MPL with Alpha Aviation Academy and Air Arabia
 

Hi all! wanted to ask your advise on the MPL Licence? Pro's and Con's? I'm a newbie entering this field straight after high school...

Seems a catch22 to me in some respects after googling for a week all the routes to becoming a commercial airline pilot...traditional route of PPL and subsequent licences at a flight school means i walk away with frozen licence and I have to find a way to get the 1500 hours or an MPL where i get the flying hours but perhaps MPL is not widely recognised and may be an issue if later on i want to progress to say Emirates?

advise pls in general and specifically this school would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

modular courses
 

Hello,

I've seen one of your post about modular courses.
I have a frozen ATPL, I'm looking for a flight school.
I'm in France but I'd like to go in a foreign country.
If you have any advice I would be very grateful.
As you can see my english is not perfect ahah that's why I'd like to move from France but actually I only know diamond flight academy.
The UK is too expensive.

Thanks for your answer,
Happy new year,
Romain

Greeks in Poland
 

Hello guys, i would like to urge any Greek (and not only ) intend to start aviation training in Poland do not hesitate to contact me for help or informations. I would be happy to help anytime.

Integrated vs. Modular? Czech vs. Other?
 

Hello gentlemen,

I am making a (rather late, I'm 33) career switch into aviation. I am halfway through my PPL and next summer I want to start my route/track to my ATPL. I quit my job so I am gonna spend all my time to the ATPL training. I have two major questions:
1. Is it better to do Integrated ATPL or Modular ATPL? What's the perception of the airlines on this?
2. What is the perception of the airlines on the Czech Schools? And does anybody know a Czech school that offers an Integrated ATPL in less than 3 years? I can only find Czech Aviation Training Centre. The other ones who offer an Integrated ATPL make you take it in a 3 years bachelor degree or try to push towards Modular ATPL for some reason... Does anybody have an opinion on the quality of the aformentioned CATC?

PM me if you please.

Thank you very much for all helpful information, and even for any effort at all!

Best regards.

==========================
You can’t use the Private Messaging system, add url links or images until you have an established posting history.

Hi everyone

I am 20 years old and I am going to start pursuing my dream when I get my class 1 medical issued. I have decided to go modular, the aviation business seems to be good and stable (if brexit doesn't affect anything in EASA). I have the funds to do integrated, but after all I decided to go modular mostly because of the price, the flexibility and opportunity to start with flying than theory.

I'll start PPL in Southern Spain, after that hour building (110ish PIC) and ATPL theory full time. After this, I've planned to do the CPL ME/IR in Sweden, Diamond Flight Academy and after getting these licenses, APS MCC probably in SKY4U in Berlin. My dream would be RYR/SunExpress or even Norwegian if they have low hour pilot jobs available at that time. Modular can also be done in a quicker pace than in some integrated ones and in every integrated program I've seen, they start with the theory. In my opinion, it is better to start with flying and during the theory it is also important to fly to "maintain" the motivation.

I hope to hear some opinions about my "route" to the flight deck and also some other schools which are as good as (or better than) DFA in Sweden and APS MCC.

FuturePilot6

Monarch, Air Berlin, Alitalia, Primera, FlyBMI, Flybe, Germania, Cobalt, Small Planet... and that's not even all of them.

Wow and Norwegian are in very big trouble too.


So I would be careful about saying the aviation business seems to be good and stable.
We're on the edge of another recession and airlines are the canary in the coalmine...

ATPL’s RECENT EXPERIENCE of completing them in 6-8 months via Dist Learning.
 

Weather dependant, but my instructors weren't keen to go above 2 hours of lessons a day when learning new things. Then once building hours you could probably do 3-5 hours a day.

Integrated pilot training query!
 

How many ATO’s?
 

I was at a different flight school for almost every step, and have had 3 direct entry interviews at different carriers. Why three? I am looking for the best offer :ok: Waiting for the Sim evaluations, now.

I went modular and the life experience travelling to different countries in Europe was very valuable for me

Definitely would go Modular again if I had to start over, if you shop around you will be surprised how cheap you can do modular training compared to Integrated and at the end of the day you get the same licence

L3, CAE or FTE?
 

L3, CAE or FTE?

Having now graduated from University, I am currently deciding between the 3 main ATPL flight schools for an integrated course. Can anyone shed some light on the important differences between them, and recommend one? I have tried to forensically compare the three but they all claim high completion and employment rates, as well as a number of airline partners. FTE seems unique due to its campus set-up, but L3 seem to have a good employment rate. I have also read on another thread potential delays for L3 cadets?

All help is massively appreciated.

If you are going L3, do an MPL course. Their ATPL course isn't fit for purpose, you will get it quicker going modular.

Pay as you go (Modular) vs Full time 0-Atpl (modular)
 

Hi guys, i Am currently 21 years old . My plan is to go to germany for lets say 3-4 years and make money to pay for my 50 k full time training with Bartolini and 35k for type rating . However I would like to know your opinion about this .

Is this a right way ? or Should i go Modular part time ( pay i as i have money) along with my job, with various schools.

The second way sounds more appealing to me since i wont be just working working and only after 3 years i can begin my flying . I also heard that doing everything in one recognizable school and having your fly certificates in short span is more favorable among hiring airlines . i would like to go to Poland ,Bartolini . Thanks

Hi,
does someone study his ATPL with careeratpl.com ??
Distance learning.
Thanks for any kind of information

How time span between modular sections affect my job hunting.
 

Hello guys as I said i am wondering if its smart to do my pilot training as I go(pay as you go) . Or save all my money and then do it in one haul. Does having long gaps in training affect anything? Thanks for your answer.