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-   -   Starting to regret it! (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/378867-starting-regret.html)

TheBeak 26th Jun 2009 17:03


what is the interval of possible hour (or measured in any other way) cost?
What exactly do you mean?

If you mean how much is someone effectively paying an hour, take the Ryanair Scheme.

33000 Euros for the TR.

500 Hours of intensive line training. 35 Euros an hour. 500 x 35 = 17500 Euros. Let's say you attain 700 hours for the year. 200 x 55 = 11000 Euros. So that's 28500 Euros for the first year earned before tax after spending 33000 Euros. At another airline you may earn 35000 Euros a year and pay for no TR (but you'd be one in a million to get in at the moment). Ryanair MAKES 4500 Euros out of you for the year - That's possibly a 39500 Euro saving on a pilot for the year (not to mention interest).

That's a 39500 Euro difference (35000 + 4500) not taking into account interest. So for the 700 hours it has cost you 39500/700 = 56 Euros an hour. These are ball park, simplistic figures but it's worth thinking about to give a guide. They may be off here or there before someone starts slating it but they are around about there and in fact fair to the Ryanair scheme.

And before Ryanair pilots get all hurt, I am aware that it is about the only way into the industry at the moment so fair play to you guys and girls, you're the ones flying aircraft for a living.

AlpineSkier 26th Jun 2009 18:53

WWW - Pschometric testing
 
WWW

I am dumbfounded that you say you did a degree in this - where for goodness sake ?

Could you confirm that this was only a fill-in on the golf-green-keeping course ?

INNflight 26th Jun 2009 19:43

As said before.... It's (not "its"! :E) no wonder some trainees will never make it all the way into a commercial multi-crew flight deck.

I think some people around here underestimate the importance of social skills in this industry.

You can be the picture-perfect pilot good enough to fly a single-engine ILS to minimums upside down in a 300 pax airliner which is on fire and has no elevators (do you want fries with that during the next prof check? :}), yet if you are an a** nobody will want you.

Being good in socializing will make the difference between getting asked over a beer if you would be interested in that job (of course plus type rating) or mailing a check to some Irish airline (no offense!)

...now where's that "dead horse" smiley again..? :suspect:

EIPCW 26th Jun 2009 19:57

INNflight,

Maybe you should take your own advice and gain some "social skills" by getting out more instead of searching these forums for spelling mistakes

Get over it and leave the threads for what they were set up for in the first place

INNflight 26th Jun 2009 20:09

258 (edit: 259 :eek:) posts since April 2007 indicate I am present in here permanently indeed. My bad.

I'll go and find some friends now, I heard there's websites where you can "talk" to people in your area. :ooh:

Flintstone 26th Jun 2009 22:54

EIPCW

I think INNflight's last two posts alone show that he 'gets' it and would be someone most people could spend a day with on the flightdeck, a quality too often overlooked in the selection process. You might want to read between the (his) lines.

ba038 26th Jun 2009 22:58

INNflight - stop wasting other peoples time on posting stupid replys about spelling mistakes ,please i see it all the time.

Duck Rogers 26th Jun 2009 23:19

.............................

Flintstone 26th Jun 2009 23:21


Originally Posted by ba038
.....stop wasting other peoples time on posting stupid replys about spelling mistakes ,please i see it all the time.


Really? You do surprise me ;)

clear prop!!! 26th Jun 2009 23:51


WWW

I am dumbfounded that you say you did a degree in this - where for goodness sake ?

'Buy one get one free' with every degree in over exaggerated house or oil price predictions, or, BA Hons in bad and condescending towards others on their way to your position in life, or,... HND in 'I'm all right Jack and you're all in the shit'...

Wee Weasley Welshman 27th Jun 2009 01:34


WWW

I am dumbfounded that you say you did a degree in this - where for goodness sake ?
Keele in the mid 1990's, Joint Hons Psychology degree with Human Resource Management degree. On the advice of OASC following RAF pilot sponsorship at A-level. The course allowed a high degree of adaption and specialization by the undergraduate. I skewed all of mine to psychometric testing, aptitude measurement, ability profiling, recruitment and industrial relations in professional work groups.

For my final year dissertation I completed a study whereby I designed a battery of pilot aptitude tests and then applied them to Air Cadets undergoing basic glider training courses. I was able to find both weak and strong correlations between various tests and success in flying training. Verbal Reasoning and Vocabulary were two of the most highly correlated test scores with success on the course.

It was a hell of a lot more useful to my future career (and sponsorship/job applications) than one of those tedious Aero Eng courses full of very heavy books, no pictures and definitely no female coursemates...

Thanks for asking.


Clear Prop!!! I indulge your little brick egg pelts on this forum but you're running out of wit old chap. Sort yourself out or be removed.


WWW




ps TXT speak is the work of Satan and poor spelling and grammar a sad reflection of the modern world. We have no option but to tolerate it all I'm afraid. Posters should be warned though that in the eyes of a good many readers their postings look weak and odious if they are full of txt speak. You'll get fewer responses and less advice. Learn to right well and correctly as a matter of course (and to type well) and it will pay great dividends throughout your life.

Kelly Hopper 27th Jun 2009 06:00

Why are they having a go at you Weasley? I have always found your posts to be intelligent, informative, honest and useful. Is it 'cos you is Welsh? :eek:

I suspect however it is because you are displaying a black and white view of the state of the industry and that is not what many want to hear? The FACT is this industry has been sliding into a crevace for a decade or more and it is now on its knees! Burying your head in the sand will not change that.

There are now, and will be for the foreseeable future, many more licence holders than jobs. That means many will never work in the industry. That is a very sad state of affairs. And the numbers are increasing daily! Choosing to ignore it doesn't change it however.

Having good personal skills may put you one step ahead of the next guy. Not having them never will. So while there are many who seem to relish the idea that lack of spelling and grammer skills is something to be proud of and is simply not important I support you. It means I am already in front.

Mikehotel152 27th Jun 2009 11:32


Verbal Reasoning and Vocabulary were two of the most highly correlated test scores with success on the course.
which is precisely why BA and, I expect, the other major airlines, include verbal reasoning tests and HR interviews in their recruitment, whether for cadets, FOs or Captains.

2098 27th Jun 2009 11:54


ps TXT speak is the work of Satan and poor spelling and grammar a sad reflection of the modern world. We have no option but to tolerate it all I'm afraid. Posters should be warned though that in the eyes of a good many readers their postings look weak and odious if they are full of txt speak. You'll get fewer responses and less advice. Learn to right well and correctly as a matter of course (and to type well) and it will pay great dividends throughout your life.

No ones perfect ey old boy? ;)

Desk-pilot 27th Jun 2009 12:11

Hours
 
Earlier in this thread people challenged my view that the working hours in this job are becoming a joke.

Well, just to give you some insight I am on home standby today but this has been shortened from 7 hours to 4 and a half due to the fact that my duty hours were projected to exceed legal max by end next week (92.5 hours in a fortnight duty!!) against a legal max of 90. SO far this week I have spent the whole week on lates finishing around 10.30pm and starting around 2pm. This means I have not spent a single evening with my family, having a BBQ with a beer in my hand in 5-6 days - you know the kind of stuff that ordinary workers in banks, shops, offices etc take for granted as something they can do everynight!

I'm just pointing out that flying is of course more fun than being in an office all day BUT IT ISN'T MORE FUN THAN HAVING A BBQ AND A BEER WITH YOUR FAMILY!!

Just a reality check for those wannabes who only see the Raybans and the shiny jets - there's a downside to this job too and it's not one that really hits you until you've been doing it a while.

Right I'm off to cut the lawn, and take wife and Daughter out for a cycle before the standby starts!

Desk-pilot

PS WWW IS absolutely right that written and verbal communication is essential in this job - you won't command much respect with your peers on the flightdeck if you're illiterate!

Kelly Hopper 27th Jun 2009 13:43

Desk-pilot.
Yes that is awful. But never mind. Just think of all that free time you get in this career when you are able to BBQ and Beer everyday due years of unemployment!
It's feast or famine eh?

TurboJ 27th Jun 2009 16:15


I am on home standby today but this has been shortened from 7 hours to 4 and a half
You poor thing - a 4hr day in the office spent at home - must be tough.


SO far this week I have spent the whole week on lates finishing around 10.30pm and starting around 2pm.
Sounds like you need a lie down in a darkened room - 8.5hrs a day.

At least when you land its home time - not like getting an emergency call at 10.25pm that keeps you on duty another six hours.

....and what about the regular 4 days off - do office workers enjoy that -

Some people need a wake up call to remind themselves how fortunate they are and how the other half live.


400 hours on a 737 gets you nothing even though it has been earned and not paid for.
What do you want your 400hrs to count for? Someone else to hand you a job?

Luck favours those with an opportune mind. Stick with it. Its an adventure - if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

James D 27th Jun 2009 17:03

Desk-Pilot;

Thatís sounds like a very cushy lifestyle; I'd take that over spending 10-12hrs chained to a desk staring at screens each day. I assume in the 3-4 days you have off after your 5-6 on you can beer and BBQ until your hearts content?

Wee Weasley Welshman 27th Jun 2009 18:00

Irony 2098, irony.

Clear Prop!!! - BTW which were my over exaggerated claims on house price deflation or oil prices again? I quite like being held to my record. I dislike being held to your fantasy record. Do you not recall quite a bit of flak I coped for saying that the oil price was both a sideshow and a bubble? Do you refute my predicition in 2007 of a major house price crash in 2008/09? Do you not believe the scale of the fall or the timing was accurately predicted by me in the face of vociferous protest?


Ah, But I forget. You've popped up here every couple of months to either call me a doom monger or an arrogant tosser.



I *passionately* care about the plight of Wannabes. For not one penny of personal gain. You?


WWW

Wee Weasley Welshman 28th Jun 2009 08:27

You could read my dissertation if I could be bothered to go into the attic and find it.

It just turned out that measuring 16 year olds range of vocabulary correlated very strongly (0.91 from memory) with the ease, speed and grade at which they passed a course to go First Solo on a Grob 109b motor glider. Same for verbal reasoning but very slightly less strong correlation. Ditto for spelling ability.

Obviously the language skills are not directly useful in what is a process and motor skill based program of learning. They are a merely a proxy for the undefinable 'pilot aptitude' when it comes to 16 year olds and going solo in a motor glider. Why being good at crosswords at 16 means you are good at learning to fly is a puzzle to which there is no answer.

Anyway - epic thread creep.

I can fully understand people regretting starting pilot training. Seen it many times before. Even if you can afford to keep your rating current you'll be as rusty as an old Cortina in a year and after a couple of years your CV will look like one big training risk.

Once you finish flying training you're a newly baked cake. You go stale just the same. And there are fresh cakes coming out of the oven every other week.

Not nice, is it?


WWW


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