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-   -   Starting to regret it! (https://www.pprune.org/professional-pilot-training-includes-ground-studies/378867-starting-regret.html)

Groundloop 24th Jun 2009 09:33


the chance of ending up as a P&O Liner Master, well, pretty much the same odds as becoming a premiership footballer.
I'll second that. To reach that level in P&O you would need to have joined as a cadet straight out of school. If your friend, the Captain, really thinks this is a possible alternative career path for him I would seriously question his judgement and, hence, if he should even be an airline Captain at all.

Ronand 24th Jun 2009 09:38

@Skyhighbird My first language is not english, I would like to see you writing in spanish! To be honest I don't think it's my english, that is holding me back from getting a job!
@Flyingvikings You have illusions mate, the job market in Africa is as dead as it gets and if u don't have any contacts and no citizenship you got zero chance of scoring a job there! Sorry to say but that's a fact! And by the way it will cost u more than 36$!

CAT3C AUTOLAND 24th Jun 2009 09:41

From the original poster, I would be interested to know what you actually expected?

Why should you only pursue your ambitions if your folks are going to fund it for you, or you have huge funds as you put it? What is wrong with working hard yourself to earn the money, to fund yourself to achieve your dreams?

I appreciate everyone has their own set of personal circumstances, however, if you are persistent and it is in your heart, believe me you will achieve your goals.

In terms of your advice to other people, I would disagree. One thing people fail to do is think about a back up plan, and thoroughly research what they are getting themselves into. Ever since I can remember, if you are not sponsored by an airline, getting your first job is going to be difficult. As most people have mentioned here, and I include myself here, we have all been there. Don't get me wrong, some people are lucky, I work with a few, they got their first job flying a jet shortly after completing training, but, they are few and far between. You must think about your plan of action post flying training. There is no point have this huge commitment and investment in your future and then sitting back once you have finished and whining because you are not sitting in the sharp end of an airliner.

I wouldn't give up, there is always a way.

BarbiesBoyfriend 24th Jun 2009 10:21

Ronand

Hey! It could be worse!

A pal of mine spended £100,000, got his fATPL but he'll never get a job in aviation as he spent his entire time at the various schools arguing with his instructors.

At least you're 'only' out £45k.

I had to go back to my old job flogging cars when I qualified as there wasn't much hiring then. Guess what? In the showroom one day I met a pilot and he was instrumental in me getting a start.

Keep your chin up and wait for things to improve.

Don't give up.:ok:

TurboJ 24th Jun 2009 11:02


........... if you really look at the workload, the pay, the training costs, the unsocial hours etc in an unemotional manner I'm not sure it makes that much sense as a career nowadays compared to some of the better alternatives.
I couldn't disagree with you more. My previous career in the emergency services I had to endure 18hr days, no breaks, non stop grief from both the public and supervisors, 8hrs in between shifts, stuck out in bad weather and politics that was beyond belief.

Whilst a flying career has its own hassles, I work far less for a lot more money and I'm only in the RHS. To say I'm at work sat at home on standby is incomprehensible to former colleagues.

What are the better alternatives? I'd be interested to know.

Going back to the original post - I've very little sympathy. What did you expect when you started your training? Now you have a licence you have to go and build your experience, along with the hundreds of other people who also have graduated from flight school. Try doing that whilst holding down a full time job, working shifts, with a wife, mortgage, three kids etc etc...

Unless you went to one of the major schools who will get you the interview, nobody is going to hand you a job on a plate. You have to go and work for it.

Network - Get to know people too - They will also network for you; Several jobs I got were through people who knew people.

Good luck........TJ

Brian Fantana 24th Jun 2009 11:20

I didn't even enjoy it cos of all the delays and crap I got from the Flightschools

welcome to the world of aviation how do you think you are going to be treated by an airlines ops,crewing department are you going to throw your toys out of the pram everytime you have a delayed air traffic slot or delay due to baggage loaders, late passengers etc etc?
There is so much more to being an airline pilot than just climbing into a shiny jet flying somewhere sunning and lounging by the pool drinking cold beers and checking out the girlies.
Everybody has had to go through hard times to get where they are now some people (the not so keen ones) throw in the towel, others (the really keen ones) make it to the pool - which are you?

Frankly Mr Shankly 24th Jun 2009 11:40

There is so much more to being an airline pilot than just climbing into a shiny jet flying somewhere sunning and lounging by the pool drinking cold beers and checking out the girlies.

Oh bloody hell, no-one told me that when I started! :)

CAT3C AUTOLAND 24th Jun 2009 11:43


There is so much more to being an airline pilot than just climbing into a shiny jet flying somewhere sunning and lounging by the pool drinking cold beers and checking out the girlies.
Is there? ;)

Dr Eckener 24th Jun 2009 13:49

You know there is CAT3C. You also have to spend a lot of time sat next to a gaylord like yourself talking about motorbikes and 80's music. :{

Ronand 24th Jun 2009 14:54

@Brian Fantana Well the big diffrence is if u work for an airline u earn money and u are not paying for any delays... So I wouldn't really care..
Its incredible with how much BS I had to put up with while training, after all I was a paying costumer! There is no other business, where a customer pays that amount of money and gets treated like that! Maybe I was just really unlucky and chose the wrong schools, but from what I read here it seems to be quite common that other students are making similar experiences with other schools....

TheBeak 24th Jun 2009 16:02


Its incredible with how much BS I had to put up with while training, after all I was a paying costumer! There is no other business, where a customer pays that amount of money and gets treated like that!
Exactly, and when you complain that they are never flying you because they couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery you get:


A pal of mine spended £100,000, got his fATPL but he'll never get a job in aviation as he spent his entire time at the various schools arguing with his instructors.
So if you don't bend over and take their laziness and black mail, you have them bad mouth you to any potential airline employer. It's not a nice industry.


welcome to the world of aviation how do you think you are going to be treated by an airlines ops,crewing department are you going to throw your toys out of the pram everytime you have a delayed air traffic slot or delay due to baggage loaders, late passengers etc etc?
No and this is what every captain/FTO says. It is completely different. You are being PAID, we are PAYING. You are sitting in an aircraft doing what you trained to do. The whole problem is the NOT flying. So it is not even in the slightest bit similar.

Mikehotel152 24th Jun 2009 16:24

BEagle has a point:


There are also large numbers of people around who, whilst holding all the relevant bits of paper, will never be employable on an airline flight deck (not even Ryanair) because they lack basic interpersonal skills.
I would go one step further. The number of people posting on Pprune in barely intelligible English is appalling. I was lucky to be taught English abroad in a fairly traditional way. We learnt grammar and spelling, punctuation and syntax. I suppose you can't expect much from the products of the painfully politically-correct modern English state school system.

Why is any of this important? It's simple: A person who concentrates on writing correctly and clearly will probably think in a similarly careful way. If you do not take care in the way you express yourself, will you take care in the way you fly? Will you be able to interact properly with another crewmember, the public, the cabin crew? Or is your attitude generally 'slapdash'? What sort of person do you think the Airlines want to employ?

Just another aspect of this issue of aptitude for the job, but worth mentioning, innit. :E

TheBeak 24th Jun 2009 16:33

I couldn't agree more Mikehotel152.

Re-Heat 24th Jun 2009 16:45

Desk-pilot

I'm not sure that government-run training would be any better. You only have to look at the serious failings they have made in calculating requirements for RAF pilots, doctors and the like to see that they would make no better fist of it than the private sector!

destinationsky 24th Jun 2009 16:53

I agree with that point too! I meet people everyday who have more of an "education" than i do. Most of them either have no common sense or cannot spell for toffee.
This world is full of opportunities that will only present themselves if you go looking for them. I am about to start my training with the intention to become a commercial pilot. I have networked and got to know pilots through various airlines by introducing myself. In turn, they introduce you to others and before you know it, emails are flying around and hey presto, you have links. I have even got a contact in DBX who owns a cargo airline.
Its all well and good moaning that your experience has been bad but your life is in your hands. If you truly want to fly for a living, get out there and make yourself known. Dont moan that you stand no chance of getting anywhere. With an attitude like that, how the hell will you get anywhere?!
I understand that the industry is bad and there are no jobs. Get a job doing anything! If you were worried about the money you could have stopped training at any point. It cant of been as bad as you say otherwise you would have stopped along time ago!
I hate my job at the moment but it pays well. Its not my ideal job but it pays money and it pays for my passion. Flying.

quant 24th Jun 2009 17:13

ronand ignore the silly pprune spelling police..

Mikehotel152 24th Jun 2009 17:35

Sorry, quant, but I do not understand your post.

Are you saying Ronand has ignored the silly Pprune spelling police or are you telling him to ignore the silly Pprune spelling police?

Case in point.

And I ought to clarify that my comments about the correct use of the English language were not aimed at Ronand, but at native speakers.

2098 24th Jun 2009 18:00

MikeHotel get a life. I'll tell you what the airlines donít want; people with no social skills. Who wants to site next to a pilot for 8 hours and talk about the current UK education system??! No Thanks!

I'll stick to football and women :p

student88 24th Jun 2009 18:14

MikeHotel sounds like the last person I'd want to share a flight deck with.

A career FO in the making.

Kelly Hopper 24th Jun 2009 18:16

Mikehotel you are so right.
Those whose native language is not English can be forgiven but I spend so much time "trying" to read posts that have appalling grammer, spelling mistake after spelling mistake, their/there/the're errors etc. it is simply embarrassing.
Aren't we supposed to be of above average intelligence?
It is very true indeed that presentation at this level can be representative of the way a person conducts themselves in all they do. It is not just spelling police, it is a very clear indication of how much effort someone put into something. I even see CV's with half a dozen spelling mistakes! WOT?
At the very least read through what you have written before clicking "submit reply."


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