Is it all worth it?
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Maximum and Pilot Pete
Thanks for your replies and myth-busting. My question actually came from a comment in Clive Hughes' book. Normally reliable, but in this case obviously not.
Thanks for your replies and myth-busting. My question actually came from a comment in Clive Hughes' book. Normally reliable, but in this case obviously not.
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I can't believe it. I've just written a real long reply basically saying thanks to everyone for their replies and the stupid internet place logged me out!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was basically thanking every one for all the time spent in trying to help me with the biggest decision of my now not so short life.
Can I ask the question though...Is the industry really that bad. There seems to have been some real negative replies come in (no offence to anyone, it's not meant as an insult).
I can't think of a better job. Good money, status, social life (?).
Several people mentioned that the eventual salary is not worth the initial outlay....is this really true? I thought a Captain was earning in the region of c80-90k. I appreciate that I wouldn't earn that sort of money as a F/O. Are airlines the only well paid professional pilot job...What about turbo prop work???
On a lighter note I'm flying toBoston tomorrow on a 747
The only problem with that is that it will whet my appetite even more (as if it need to be
) If you are the Captain or F/O on the flight to Boston with British Airways at 11am ish then pleeeeeeeease call for me to come and see the flight deck...during the flight would be nice....My name is Andy (funily enough) and i'll be sitting with my mate Keith and our significant others.
I'll look forward to any further replies on my return in 2 weeks. Once again thanks to everyone whoe replied
Sorry people it's only me again.
I forgot to mention that I still haven't decided whether to give my small cheque to those nice people at OATS. I do want to do the integrated course because of my age, but I guess it will depend largely on what those other nice people at the bank (hopefully they are pilots and will be reading this!!!!) will lend me??? OATS have sent me some more info on the extra time they are now giving students on the APP course on the top notch simulator they have there. I think they said by the end of the course that you will have 40 hrs in the sim they have there (i think it is a 737 or 757). Is this akin to a type rating? Apparently it will make an OATS student even more attractive to the airlines!!!! Any thoughts????
I was basically thanking every one for all the time spent in trying to help me with the biggest decision of my now not so short life.
Can I ask the question though...Is the industry really that bad. There seems to have been some real negative replies come in (no offence to anyone, it's not meant as an insult).
I can't think of a better job. Good money, status, social life (?).
Several people mentioned that the eventual salary is not worth the initial outlay....is this really true? I thought a Captain was earning in the region of c80-90k. I appreciate that I wouldn't earn that sort of money as a F/O. Are airlines the only well paid professional pilot job...What about turbo prop work???
On a lighter note I'm flying toBoston tomorrow on a 747
The only problem with that is that it will whet my appetite even more (as if it need to be
) If you are the Captain or F/O on the flight to Boston with British Airways at 11am ish then pleeeeeeeease call for me to come and see the flight deck...during the flight would be nice....My name is Andy (funily enough) and i'll be sitting with my mate Keith and our significant others.I'll look forward to any further replies on my return in 2 weeks. Once again thanks to everyone whoe replied
Sorry people it's only me again.
I forgot to mention that I still haven't decided whether to give my small cheque to those nice people at OATS. I do want to do the integrated course because of my age, but I guess it will depend largely on what those other nice people at the bank (hopefully they are pilots and will be reading this!!!!) will lend me??? OATS have sent me some more info on the extra time they are now giving students on the APP course on the top notch simulator they have there. I think they said by the end of the course that you will have 40 hrs in the sim they have there (i think it is a 737 or 757). Is this akin to a type rating? Apparently it will make an OATS student even more attractive to the airlines!!!! Any thoughts????
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Turboprop FO's are on thin money for quite a while.
eg, fly freight and an FO will earn in the region of ~£14-18K plus allowances. If you need to get the hours to get into the left seat or for some reason you can't move on to a jet job (or better turboprop) then you are on that money for 2-3 years. Minimum.
eg, fly freight and an FO will earn in the region of ~£14-18K plus allowances. If you need to get the hours to get into the left seat or for some reason you can't move on to a jet job (or better turboprop) then you are on that money for 2-3 years. Minimum.
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Madandy,
Your research is still pretty appalling! No flight deck visits these days, so don't bother to ask.
Go to an OATS seminar where they can fill you in on all the details. These are advertised on their web page.
Type ratings are something in addition to the ab-initio course (integrated).
Your research is still pretty appalling! No flight deck visits these days, so don't bother to ask.
Go to an OATS seminar where they can fill you in on all the details. These are advertised on their web page.
Type ratings are something in addition to the ab-initio course (integrated).
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Andy
Be wary of getting 'more' time in a jet sim. My personal thoughts are that it does not make you more attractive to an airline. Infact, for a turbo-prop outfit it probably makes you less attractive.
If you have the grand total of 200ish hrs I don't think an extra 10 (or whatever it is) hrs in a jet sim cuts any mustard. It is a marketing tool to make you think you are getting added value. Consider what you could do with the extra money if not doing integrated. Your choice and if integrated training is what you feel you need then fine, but do it for the right reasons and not because of a 'buy one get one free' type offer.
Regards
PP
Be wary of getting 'more' time in a jet sim. My personal thoughts are that it does not make you more attractive to an airline. Infact, for a turbo-prop outfit it probably makes you less attractive.
If you have the grand total of 200ish hrs I don't think an extra 10 (or whatever it is) hrs in a jet sim cuts any mustard. It is a marketing tool to make you think you are getting added value. Consider what you could do with the extra money if not doing integrated. Your choice and if integrated training is what you feel you need then fine, but do it for the right reasons and not because of a 'buy one get one free' type offer.
Regards
PP
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No sponsor,
thanks but no need to get knickers in a twist....It was a tongue in cheek request. I knew that there were no cockpit visits during the flight.
I appreciate what you say about visiting OATS but been there, seen it and got the t-shirt (more money for those nice men at Oxford!!!!!) Thanks anyway.
Redsnail you have enlightened me. I am shocked to say the least! That is pretty poor money for a responsible job however I would still love that type anyway....
Lastly to Pilot Pete, you have also given a new angle for me to look at this as well, one which I hadn't thought of. You don't work for Cabair do you (only kidding)?
thanks but no need to get knickers in a twist....It was a tongue in cheek request. I knew that there were no cockpit visits during the flight.
I appreciate what you say about visiting OATS but been there, seen it and got the t-shirt (more money for those nice men at Oxford!!!!!) Thanks anyway.
Redsnail you have enlightened me. I am shocked to say the least! That is pretty poor money for a responsible job however I would still love that type anyway....
Lastly to Pilot Pete, you have also given a new angle for me to look at this as well, one which I hadn't thought of. You don't work for Cabair do you (only kidding)?
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Andy
No I do not work for Cabair and never have.
Also, your £80-90k figure for captain salaries is a little optimistic. Maybe after several years with a large airline and including allowances, but a starting figure of mid 'fifty' ks would be more realistic as a stating captain salary with a UK jet operator. Allowances usually on top of that. Total figure something like £60k.
Regards
PP
No I do not work for Cabair and never have.
Also, your £80-90k figure for captain salaries is a little optimistic. Maybe after several years with a large airline and including allowances, but a starting figure of mid 'fifty' ks would be more realistic as a stating captain salary with a UK jet operator. Allowances usually on top of that. Total figure something like £60k.
Regards
PP
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What is your motivation to become flight crew?
Perhaps am I being cynical, but it seems devotion does not necessarily equate to motivation to become flight crew on these boards.
I know I have a perhaps unhealthy devotion to aviation in general but can I put a finger on one sole reason for motivation? Nope. Can you and what's yours?
Perhaps the motivation is money? Are you all solely after that better wage? The same reasoning flooded the IT market with career-changers such that good talent is hard to find. Is the pilot training market going the same way? I note that plenty of IT people are attempting to switch to flying! I see also some dreamers dream of available hosties...
Perhaps the simple reason for being paid to fly bigger stuff so just result in a "duh, man like the reason is simple..." ?
I know I have a perhaps unhealthy devotion to aviation in general but can I put a finger on one sole reason for motivation? Nope. Can you and what's yours?
Perhaps the motivation is money? Are you all solely after that better wage? The same reasoning flooded the IT market with career-changers such that good talent is hard to find. Is the pilot training market going the same way? I note that plenty of IT people are attempting to switch to flying! I see also some dreamers dream of available hosties...
Perhaps the simple reason for being paid to fly bigger stuff so just result in a "duh, man like the reason is simple..." ?
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To me it's just the simple fact that there's nothing else I'd rather be doing with my life and it's always been that way. Yes, the crap you have to go through to get to the job at the end of the tunnel sometimes seems ridiculous, but I just know that in the end it'll all be worth it.
Assuming there is an end of course.
Plus, as one of my instructors once put it; I'd rather fly than work for a living.
Assuming there is an end of course.
Plus, as one of my instructors once put it; I'd rather fly than work for a living.
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Right now, although having some of the knowledge and should have GCSE's, I dont (long story), I am almost ready to start doing them distance learning in my spare time and am about to start work in a call centre to help get money for the training over the next few years. The thing that motivates me is a better future and a good academic professional career with good job prospects. And to be in a job that I could really be proud of, its a long road to get there with many hurdles to cross but keeping in mind the end result i find good for determination and motivation.
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The thing that motivates me is a better future and a good academic professional career with good job prospects. And to be in a job that I could really be proud of, its a long road to get there with many hurdles to cross but keeping in mind the end result i find good for determination and motivation.
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Sorry for reawakening an old post, read this with interest and would love to know where some of you guys are now - compared to August 2003 when it all started.
I myself have a grand total of 1 hour flying time and I was shocked to hear you guys moaning at earning "only" £50k a year starting salary. Thats more than double the highest I have ever earned in my life.
I myself have a grand total of 1 hour flying time
and I was shocked to hear you guys moaning at earning "only" £50k a year starting salary. Thats more than double the highest I have ever earned in my life.
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I myself have a grand total of 1 hour flying time and I was shocked to hear you guys moaning at earning "only" £50k a year starting salary. Thats more than double the highest I have ever earned in my life.
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Originally Posted by Pilot Pete
a starting figure of mid 'fifty' ks would be more realistic as a stating captain salary with a UK jet operator.
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ok, but you wont be starting as a captain will you? thats if you only have 1 hour, im guessing you havent got your licences yet, which rules out starting as a captain, so you'd be looking at a starting wage of approx £20k to be realistic.
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Oops sorry, I didnt mean a starting wage with only 1 hour flying lol.
If the starting wage for a captain is £50k I cant understand how people complain.
In my last job, I earned about £15k and never have to do without. So even your estimate of £20k is very attractive to me.
But its not just monetry value, look at the sites pilots get to see, you see views even your passengers never see.
Then, there is the feeling of flying itself, how can you put a price on it?
If any of you guys ever have a spare jumpseat, id be happy to come along for the ride
If the starting wage for a captain is £50k I cant understand how people complain.
In my last job, I earned about £15k and never have to do without. So even your estimate of £20k is very attractive to me.
But its not just monetry value, look at the sites pilots get to see, you see views even your passengers never see.
Then, there is the feeling of flying itself, how can you put a price on it?
If any of you guys ever have a spare jumpseat, id be happy to come along for the ride
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Thought I'll post my story too.
BBC - My Story - Luke Skywlaker or maybe Lucky Luke?
In those grim times it helps to be bit lucky and to really go for it!
I hope above cheers up some of you guys and give you hope to go for it.
BBC - My Story - Luke Skywlaker or maybe Lucky Luke?
In those grim times it helps to be bit lucky and to really go for it!
I hope above cheers up some of you guys and give you hope to go for it.