Oxford Aviation Airline Preparation Programme.
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Oxford Aviation Airline Preparation Programme.
Hi,
Has anyone gone through this programme?
Is it a good idea?
Any hints or tips from those who have been through it?
Thank you for any information.
Has anyone gone through this programme?
Is it a good idea?
Any hints or tips from those who have been through it?
Thank you for any information.
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Much too new to find anyone who has gone through it - you will have to wait about another 12 months for that kind of info.
Very contentious new course as it is hugely expensive, and open to some debate as to how close to reality Oxford's marketing of your career prospects post APP might be.
I don't personally know any ex-OAT students who have got work as a result of OAT's efforts, but I do know ex-students who found themselves FO positions. Can't really see what OAT are claiming to do for new students in this respect that they didn't also claim to do for ex-students, and so far I don't see any great successes for OAT on the career front.
Very contentious new course as it is hugely expensive, and open to some debate as to how close to reality Oxford's marketing of your career prospects post APP might be.
I don't personally know any ex-OAT students who have got work as a result of OAT's efforts, but I do know ex-students who found themselves FO positions. Can't really see what OAT are claiming to do for new students in this respect that they didn't also claim to do for ex-students, and so far I don't see any great successes for OAT on the career front.
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hi russell,
I have been looking into doing one of those courses. I´m looking into one with eagle jet. I didn´t like the idea of having to pay for the course upfront, before even getting to see the planes/pilots I was going to fly with. In this company you can pay as You fly. Iá currently deciding weather it is worth doing it on a jet as it is nearlly doble the amount i costs on a turbo prop.
I am also looking for someone who has done a similar course to get first hand info.
If I´m lucky I´ll let you know.
I have been looking into doing one of those courses. I´m looking into one with eagle jet. I didn´t like the idea of having to pay for the course upfront, before even getting to see the planes/pilots I was going to fly with. In this company you can pay as You fly. Iá currently deciding weather it is worth doing it on a jet as it is nearlly doble the amount i costs on a turbo prop.
I am also looking for someone who has done a similar course to get first hand info.
If I´m lucky I´ll let you know.
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Hello there,
I have been offered a place on the APP course and I am quite likely to take it.
When I first heard about the APP I was quite sceptical like most ppruners are, and I hasten to add it is only natural to be. I conducted plenty of my own research into other options and other Flight Training Organisations. After lots of thought on the matter I have come up with the following conclusions, and these are rather brief cos' I could type forever about my reasons if I wanted to.
- Oxford have decided to go for quality over quantity. That's a fact. They are downsizing the number of people on the APP compared to the numbers that used to be on the integrated course. They are taking roughly 20 per course.
- They have decided to place a selection on the front end of the course, so not allow any old tom, dick or harry on the course. This has major benefits for a few reasons. In brief they are: the airlines know they are getting quality pilots (i.e Oxford have effectivly done the selection for them) so the chances of getting a job (theoretically) go up, this means that more people apply to the APP and this means more business for Oxford. This also gives the banks that Oxford deal with the confidence to loan larger amounts of money that usual to cadets.
- Oxford have modified their course in accordance with airlines suggestions. This is also a fact and I have verified this with BALPA. They have added on various extra-curricular activities (e.g. visits to industry), more multi engine hours and more time in the FNPTII 737-400 sim. They use this sim for the 20 hour MCC at the end of the course but have added an extra 10 hourse of what they call JOT, Jet Orientation Training. Not the same as a JOC, Jet Orientation Course, but is designed to get you way ahead of the game when it comes to sim check rides and type rating sim work.
Finally, I suspect that there will be a shortage of sponsorship programs in the future (other than CTC) and the traditional full sponsorships may be dead altogether. I think this ultimately means that over the next couple of years the airlines are eventually have to start going to FTO's for their new recruits. Why not choose someone off the APP? They gone through an airline standard recruitment, had Oxford training (although Oxford get slagged off for a lot of things, not many people can fault the standard of their ground school and flight training) and the airline doesn't have to pay a penny for the training (well maybe other than a type rating).
Before you start to doubt the standard of the selection bare in mind that it is the same selection the BMI used to use when they sponsored.
As I see it, that's the way it is. There are still doubts in my mind about chances of getting employed, and whether they really are boosted over the chances of those taking other routes.
The APP is brand new and the very first course starts at the end of March. No one can say whether it will be a success, but after quite a lot of thought, I've decided that they've come up with a pretty good (in theory) idea.
There are plenty of routes through self funded training, but dismiss the APP without some consideration at your own risk.
Also, you don't pay for all the training up front, it is done in installments throughout the course, and yes I concede that it is an expensive course. But is does include lots.
Hope this helps, it's even a help to me to get things clear in my mind and set out my reasons logically.
PT
I have been offered a place on the APP course and I am quite likely to take it.
When I first heard about the APP I was quite sceptical like most ppruners are, and I hasten to add it is only natural to be. I conducted plenty of my own research into other options and other Flight Training Organisations. After lots of thought on the matter I have come up with the following conclusions, and these are rather brief cos' I could type forever about my reasons if I wanted to.
- Oxford have decided to go for quality over quantity. That's a fact. They are downsizing the number of people on the APP compared to the numbers that used to be on the integrated course. They are taking roughly 20 per course.
- They have decided to place a selection on the front end of the course, so not allow any old tom, dick or harry on the course. This has major benefits for a few reasons. In brief they are: the airlines know they are getting quality pilots (i.e Oxford have effectivly done the selection for them) so the chances of getting a job (theoretically) go up, this means that more people apply to the APP and this means more business for Oxford. This also gives the banks that Oxford deal with the confidence to loan larger amounts of money that usual to cadets.
- Oxford have modified their course in accordance with airlines suggestions. This is also a fact and I have verified this with BALPA. They have added on various extra-curricular activities (e.g. visits to industry), more multi engine hours and more time in the FNPTII 737-400 sim. They use this sim for the 20 hour MCC at the end of the course but have added an extra 10 hourse of what they call JOT, Jet Orientation Training. Not the same as a JOC, Jet Orientation Course, but is designed to get you way ahead of the game when it comes to sim check rides and type rating sim work.
Finally, I suspect that there will be a shortage of sponsorship programs in the future (other than CTC) and the traditional full sponsorships may be dead altogether. I think this ultimately means that over the next couple of years the airlines are eventually have to start going to FTO's for their new recruits. Why not choose someone off the APP? They gone through an airline standard recruitment, had Oxford training (although Oxford get slagged off for a lot of things, not many people can fault the standard of their ground school and flight training) and the airline doesn't have to pay a penny for the training (well maybe other than a type rating).
Before you start to doubt the standard of the selection bare in mind that it is the same selection the BMI used to use when they sponsored.
As I see it, that's the way it is. There are still doubts in my mind about chances of getting employed, and whether they really are boosted over the chances of those taking other routes.
The APP is brand new and the very first course starts at the end of March. No one can say whether it will be a success, but after quite a lot of thought, I've decided that they've come up with a pretty good (in theory) idea.
There are plenty of routes through self funded training, but dismiss the APP without some consideration at your own risk.
Also, you don't pay for all the training up front, it is done in installments throughout the course, and yes I concede that it is an expensive course. But is does include lots.
Hope this helps, it's even a help to me to get things clear in my mind and set out my reasons logically.
PT
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Hi!
I agree with all you have said here and wish you luck on the APP, good for you!
I attended the seminar and was very impressed in comparison to other training schools. I am hoping to take the selection myself later in the year but at the moment am waiting to see what develops with the war situation[and to save some money!]
Good luck
Piper1
I agree with all you have said here and wish you luck on the APP, good for you!
I attended the seminar and was very impressed in comparison to other training schools. I am hoping to take the selection myself later in the year but at the moment am waiting to see what develops with the war situation[and to save some money!]
Good luck
Piper1
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Piper1,
Thanks for post. I agree that people should be wary about the effect of the war on the industry, especially before going through self-funded training. But I also believe there are some points we should consider before deciding that if we start training now we are never going to get a job and the war will ruin the industry for a million years:
- Courses such as the APP are nearly a year and a half long. So if you started in a couple of months that would give the industry 18 months to sort itself out before you were looking for a job.
The professional studies loans that HSBC are giving out for the APP don't have to start being repaid until six months after the course. This theoretically gives you 2 years to let the industry sort itself out. That is why I am not going to wait too long to see what happens. It should all be over in six months max.
- If you start training now you could hit the boom at just the right moment. There is talk of a retirement bulge in 18 months. Is it true? Who knows. But I do know that I'd rather be there with a CPL and bells on, than reading about on PPRuNe and deciding that I should go and start training.
- Let's face it. Our governments will always be fighting some war or resolving some conflict. I admit, it won't be the same as being at war, but I am just saying that there is very rarely periods of time where there isn't something brewing. After Iraq we'll probably back into Afganistan (sp?) and then on into North Korea.
Just some thoughts.
One other thing that I forgot to mention in my other post is for people that think that the selection will be easy. Yes, the entry standards may vary depending on the number of applicants but I only know three people that have applied and two of them got it the other one failed on the personality questionnaire.
PT
Thanks for post. I agree that people should be wary about the effect of the war on the industry, especially before going through self-funded training. But I also believe there are some points we should consider before deciding that if we start training now we are never going to get a job and the war will ruin the industry for a million years:
- Courses such as the APP are nearly a year and a half long. So if you started in a couple of months that would give the industry 18 months to sort itself out before you were looking for a job.
The professional studies loans that HSBC are giving out for the APP don't have to start being repaid until six months after the course. This theoretically gives you 2 years to let the industry sort itself out. That is why I am not going to wait too long to see what happens. It should all be over in six months max.
- If you start training now you could hit the boom at just the right moment. There is talk of a retirement bulge in 18 months. Is it true? Who knows. But I do know that I'd rather be there with a CPL and bells on, than reading about on PPRuNe and deciding that I should go and start training.
- Let's face it. Our governments will always be fighting some war or resolving some conflict. I admit, it won't be the same as being at war, but I am just saying that there is very rarely periods of time where there isn't something brewing. After Iraq we'll probably back into Afganistan (sp?) and then on into North Korea.
Just some thoughts.
One other thing that I forgot to mention in my other post is for people that think that the selection will be easy. Yes, the entry standards may vary depending on the number of applicants but I only know three people that have applied and two of them got it the other one failed on the personality questionnaire.
PT
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PT,
You are right when you say there is always going to be something political going on,and there are certainly no certainties about the state of airline recruitment in the future. As I said before I am going to wait six months for financial reasons. My situation is such that I have very little savings to go directly towards training costs and would be borrowing the majority from various sources!
As this is in many ways a gamble I am treating it in the same way...do not gamble more than you can afford to lose!
Maybe you are in a different position financially or maybe I should just get on with it and stop sitting on the fence! [must say its not the most comfortable of fences!]
Would welcome feedback
Piper1
You are right when you say there is always going to be something political going on,and there are certainly no certainties about the state of airline recruitment in the future. As I said before I am going to wait six months for financial reasons. My situation is such that I have very little savings to go directly towards training costs and would be borrowing the majority from various sources!
As this is in many ways a gamble I am treating it in the same way...do not gamble more than you can afford to lose!
Maybe you are in a different position financially or maybe I should just get on with it and stop sitting on the fence! [must say its not the most comfortable of fences!]
Would welcome feedback
Piper1
Most airlines will put pilot candidates through their own selection procedure. This is likely to include formal interview, simride, groups exercise, psychometric profiling and technical questionaire.
Just why an airline should defer such assesment to an FTO who conducted such testing some 2 years ago is a question that frames itself in my mind.
A 10 hour non-airline specific JOC course is not going to set the world on fire either.
And whilst its nice that you made some industry visits during your training thats really not going to make any difference to employability.
Me? I'd do a modular CPL IR and ATPL exams for about £40,000. I'd then spend the money saved on CTC applications, an FI rating or pay Ryanair for a job.
WWW
Just why an airline should defer such assesment to an FTO who conducted such testing some 2 years ago is a question that frames itself in my mind.
A 10 hour non-airline specific JOC course is not going to set the world on fire either.
And whilst its nice that you made some industry visits during your training thats really not going to make any difference to employability.
Me? I'd do a modular CPL IR and ATPL exams for about £40,000. I'd then spend the money saved on CTC applications, an FI rating or pay Ryanair for a job.
WWW
Lets see.
£60,000 for the course, plus £12,000 for food and accomodation plus £3,000 for CAA fees.
£75,000.
Thats maybe a £35,000 premium over that necessary to spend on a modular CPL/IR frznATPL. Same license, same flightest passes, same ground exams.
Of course the product may well suit some people.
WWW
£60,000 for the course, plus £12,000 for food and accomodation plus £3,000 for CAA fees.
£75,000.
Thats maybe a £35,000 premium over that necessary to spend on a modular CPL/IR frznATPL. Same license, same flightest passes, same ground exams.
Of course the product may well suit some people.
WWW
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With low amounts of recruitment the airlines can choose to be picky
Take www's advice - go do a modular course.
You both sound like you work in the OATS marketing department.
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I don't know a lot about the new course but what you're saying sounds like very recognisable Oxford marketing bullsh1t. I do not mean that as an insult just be aware that while they dress it up as best they can it is still a fATPL CPL/IR that you will walk away with. The rest of what they offer will be of no interest to airlines, the only part they will take into account is perhaps the very fact that you went to Oxford as there is no denying the quality of training.
As the others have said here airlines do their own selection processes and will pay absolutely no heed whatsoever to Oxford's results as they will have tailored their own to meet their needs. The JOT course would be useful if you could delay it until you have a definite sim ride with an airline and therefore use it as practise because the use will fade with time and as an added bit on your licence this will not stand up to much.
This sounds quite harsh but it is the truth and you should certainly take it into consideration. PLEASE investigate ALL avenues before choosing, if after doing this you still decide on Oxford then go for it because there are many good reasons to go there, just dismiss the marketing crap from any decision you make!
WDJ
BTW - how often are they doing the course? they say they have downsized to 20 per course but when I did the integrated course there only 18 on mine!
As the others have said here airlines do their own selection processes and will pay absolutely no heed whatsoever to Oxford's results as they will have tailored their own to meet their needs. The JOT course would be useful if you could delay it until you have a definite sim ride with an airline and therefore use it as practise because the use will fade with time and as an added bit on your licence this will not stand up to much.
This sounds quite harsh but it is the truth and you should certainly take it into consideration. PLEASE investigate ALL avenues before choosing, if after doing this you still decide on Oxford then go for it because there are many good reasons to go there, just dismiss the marketing crap from any decision you make!
WDJ
BTW - how often are they doing the course? they say they have downsized to 20 per course but when I did the integrated course there only 18 on mine!
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A couple of observations; I don’t want to join in the Oxford bashing, however, I feel I cannot let the propaganda (unwitting or intended) go unchallenged.
When I researched commercial flight schools many months back, I concluded that Oxford’s groundschool must be good as it achieves excellent results. In contrast, there must be plenty wrong in the flying department as the results achieved are well below average. Their courses are quite over-priced when comparing apples with apples, and their customer service levels are poor compared with others.
Having made those statements, I’d better justify them before I get flamed.
Groundschool
OAT make a lot of noise about their first time pass rates. They quote only the integrated rates as the modular rates are statistically incomplete; the same reason given by other modular schools for not publishing the rates. The subjective assessment I made was by talking to ex-students. 2 schools stand out as having first rate groundschools; Oxford and Bristol Groundschool. There are many others that are good. I chose Bristol in the end as they are clear winners in the customer service front.
Flying
Comparing first time pass rates for CPL Skills Tests and IRTs is tricky, as few schools will disclose their rates and it took a lot for me to get CAA averages. When schools do disclose, some quote first series pass rates which are different from first time passes. Then there is the problem of different schools having different students; start with good raw material and you may well get good results. Despite these health warnings, it was clear that Oxford achieved very poor first time pass rates at the CAA tests; at times when a lot of their students were ‘selected’ airline cadets who should pass first time more often.
Again, my subjective assessment was to talk to graduates. This was interesting; very few people criticise the standard of the instruction they receive wherever they train. Obviously, most people do their CPL or IR at only one school so they are unable to make comparisons. Maybe that is the reason. A typical Oxford graduate will complain about the management and customer service but praise the flying instructors. The only difference with the majority of other schools is that some do not criticise the organisation, while still praising their instructors. The best overall (by narrow margins) seem to be Bristol Flight Centre and PAT at Bournemouth. In my book the latter wins because a few people felt like sausages in a machine at BFC. The integrated choice was clearly BAe (now that WMU is out of the picture).
Prices
The OATS integrated course offered nothing of real value over the competition (in standard or APP form) yet was £1,000s more than the others. The equipment is older (although they are buying some new sims now), the operating base is poor, the accommodation frequently criticised – there seems no justification for the price other than the claim that they increase graduates chances of getting employment. I found absolutely no justification for that claim. I concluded that they must either be making a lot of money or they are very poor at managing their business.
Customer Service Levels
From the first sales enquiry to graduation, OATS prospective students, students and graduates criticise the organisation. In my research they were unique in this respect.
I know I’ve ended up OATS bashing, but I’ve tried to tell you the results of my market research dispassionately. I have nothing personal against OATS – they just failed to measure up and hence convince me to become a customer.
A final thought WWW, why is this thread on this forum; should it not be on the UK pro-training one? Even OATS don’t claim that this course has anything to do with sponsorship or jobs.
When I researched commercial flight schools many months back, I concluded that Oxford’s groundschool must be good as it achieves excellent results. In contrast, there must be plenty wrong in the flying department as the results achieved are well below average. Their courses are quite over-priced when comparing apples with apples, and their customer service levels are poor compared with others.
Having made those statements, I’d better justify them before I get flamed.
Groundschool
OAT make a lot of noise about their first time pass rates. They quote only the integrated rates as the modular rates are statistically incomplete; the same reason given by other modular schools for not publishing the rates. The subjective assessment I made was by talking to ex-students. 2 schools stand out as having first rate groundschools; Oxford and Bristol Groundschool. There are many others that are good. I chose Bristol in the end as they are clear winners in the customer service front.
Flying
Comparing first time pass rates for CPL Skills Tests and IRTs is tricky, as few schools will disclose their rates and it took a lot for me to get CAA averages. When schools do disclose, some quote first series pass rates which are different from first time passes. Then there is the problem of different schools having different students; start with good raw material and you may well get good results. Despite these health warnings, it was clear that Oxford achieved very poor first time pass rates at the CAA tests; at times when a lot of their students were ‘selected’ airline cadets who should pass first time more often.
Again, my subjective assessment was to talk to graduates. This was interesting; very few people criticise the standard of the instruction they receive wherever they train. Obviously, most people do their CPL or IR at only one school so they are unable to make comparisons. Maybe that is the reason. A typical Oxford graduate will complain about the management and customer service but praise the flying instructors. The only difference with the majority of other schools is that some do not criticise the organisation, while still praising their instructors. The best overall (by narrow margins) seem to be Bristol Flight Centre and PAT at Bournemouth. In my book the latter wins because a few people felt like sausages in a machine at BFC. The integrated choice was clearly BAe (now that WMU is out of the picture).
Prices
The OATS integrated course offered nothing of real value over the competition (in standard or APP form) yet was £1,000s more than the others. The equipment is older (although they are buying some new sims now), the operating base is poor, the accommodation frequently criticised – there seems no justification for the price other than the claim that they increase graduates chances of getting employment. I found absolutely no justification for that claim. I concluded that they must either be making a lot of money or they are very poor at managing their business.
Customer Service Levels
From the first sales enquiry to graduation, OATS prospective students, students and graduates criticise the organisation. In my research they were unique in this respect.
I know I’ve ended up OATS bashing, but I’ve tried to tell you the results of my market research dispassionately. I have nothing personal against OATS – they just failed to measure up and hence convince me to become a customer.
A final thought WWW, why is this thread on this forum; should it not be on the UK pro-training one? Even OATS don’t claim that this course has anything to do with sponsorship or jobs.
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Sally, I beg to differ
A final thought WWW, why is this thread on this forum; should it not be on the UK pro-training one? Even OATS don’t claim that this course has anything to do with sponsorship or jobs.
If you care to glance at Pilot Magazine's "Where to Fly Guide 2003" from the March edition, there is a little box on page 9. The heading is "The 'Complete' airline pilot from Oxford Aviation Training."
The final paragraph reads as follows....
"The aim of OAT's JAA approved, full-time ATP(A) integrated course is to train pilots to the level of proficiency necessary to enable them to operate as a First Officer on multi-pilot, multi-engine aeroplanes in commercial air transportation. Upon completion of the course, the pilot will be issued with a CPL with an IR as well as receive training in Multi-Crew Cooperation (MCC) skills and jet handling skills (JOT). In other words, they're ready for the right seat!"
Nothing to do with jobs? No type rating, but ready for the RHS? And to think I used to work in marketing...
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Required arrogance
Mr P T Flea, its a shame for you that BA are no longer recruiting as you appear to have the required arrogance to fit into their scheme immediately. It seems to me that you are either reading from the oxford marketing script and posting it on this forum, or you are trying to convince yourself that this will work for you, and also that you seem to be that much better than everyone else (current and recently graduated students alike). Your 'quality not quantity' remark has confused me too. I beleive you said there would now only be 20 people on your course, compared to the 15 which was on the one I recently finished. Sounds like the instructors ability to teach on a one to one basis will be stretched.
Plus the implication that current/previous students are inferior has a distinct twang of 'I'm BA look at me' to it. Maybe you have got what it takes?!
Whilst I appreciate the hard work which you have clearly put in this far into your future training, I feel you should be very cautious about the blatent marketing of the APP scheme at Ox. Its nothing they didn't say two years ago, they have repackaged it, painted it in pretty colours and added three capital letters to the name, oooh. Also be cautious of your belief that in 18 months time there is going to be a glut of pilots. We were all told this too, and I know recent events have influenced this fact, but this is entirely the reason you must be cautious. Nobody knows what will happen in 18 months time, not you, not even the airlines, and definately not Oxford.
For your information as well, there are plenty of excellent pilots out here without a sniff of a job, and it is not through lack of ability or effort (on their own part, not oxford's I might add). There is a lot of slack to be taken up in this industry before you come out, and unless oxford actually makes an effort to improve its links with airlines - which at present seem pretty tenuous at best, not existent at worst - they won't be very succesful in achieving there promise to you.
Plus the implication that current/previous students are inferior has a distinct twang of 'I'm BA look at me' to it. Maybe you have got what it takes?!
Whilst I appreciate the hard work which you have clearly put in this far into your future training, I feel you should be very cautious about the blatent marketing of the APP scheme at Ox. Its nothing they didn't say two years ago, they have repackaged it, painted it in pretty colours and added three capital letters to the name, oooh. Also be cautious of your belief that in 18 months time there is going to be a glut of pilots. We were all told this too, and I know recent events have influenced this fact, but this is entirely the reason you must be cautious. Nobody knows what will happen in 18 months time, not you, not even the airlines, and definately not Oxford.
For your information as well, there are plenty of excellent pilots out here without a sniff of a job, and it is not through lack of ability or effort (on their own part, not oxford's I might add). There is a lot of slack to be taken up in this industry before you come out, and unless oxford actually makes an effort to improve its links with airlines - which at present seem pretty tenuous at best, not existent at worst - they won't be very succesful in achieving there promise to you.
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benhurr Sally's quite right - this thread is about just another ATPL training scheme, whatever fancy names it's dressed up with! It is nothing to do with sponsorship, and it has no more to do with jobs than any other ATPL course. And it's developing into yet another thread about the pros and cons of OAT.
As you will note, it has been moved.
Scroggs
As you will note, it has been moved.
Scroggs
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I completed my training (full modular upgrade) at Oxford, very good indeed, have the required jet job, no thanks to their promised "assistance" in getting interviews.
PT Flea, Piper one - you are both a marketing mans dream!
Save your money, get the licence through the more varied and enjoyable modular route.
Good Luck!!
PT Flea, Piper one - you are both a marketing mans dream!
Save your money, get the licence through the more varied and enjoyable modular route.
Good Luck!!
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Dogma,
I too went to Oxford and was very disappointed with the service they provided. It is such a huge amount of money that ATPL students pay it is very sad when a school like Oxford treats its students so badly.
My advice to anyone considering going to a particular air school is to make sure you speak to a few students or former students of the school to get their views.
Regards.
I too went to Oxford and was very disappointed with the service they provided. It is such a huge amount of money that ATPL students pay it is very sad when a school like Oxford treats its students so badly.
My advice to anyone considering going to a particular air school is to make sure you speak to a few students or former students of the school to get their views.
Regards.
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Sally
Interesting post, especially the research you appear to have made into being able to quantify your opinions - I really do think you must be far too sensible to be a pilot
Seriously though, as an ex-OAT stude myself, many of the comments posted here are sadly rather familiar, but I have to admit to a certain amount of surprise at the poor pass rates on the flying side at OAT. Do these figures include the efforts of the rather large numbers of Algerian students who have passed through OAT in recent years?
If so, then it would be hardly surprising to discover a poor pass rate as the overall application to achieving an acceptable standard of flying was often worse than poor (not applicable to all Algerian students as there were some exceptionally dedicated and skillful individuals, but sadly the majority it seems) and would hence drag down the school average. On a purely anecdotal basis, I was aware of a very good rate of first-time passes amongst the remainder of the students and would be shocked if this was significantly worse than elsewhere.
Additionally, the choice of routes for the IRT may also be a factor. OAT have 2 CAA examiners on site, and a favourite route is Coventry - Cranfield with 2 of the nastiest procedures in the area and an increased opportunity to cock it all up. I'm sure many other schools use these same airfields, but it may be that OAT perhaps recieve it more often than most due to the proximity to Oxford and the 'home advantage' at Cabair perhaps means they receive an NDB procedure there less often.
Flying Dwarf
Have you been at the Stella again my vertically challenged friend? Not all the BA cadets were that bad. Perhaps your recent experience at Cranebank has affected you badly - just think of a nice afternoon trip backseating the ILS at Filton with Chuckles and Ginger. Now doesn't that feel better already?
Luv you mate
Interesting post, especially the research you appear to have made into being able to quantify your opinions - I really do think you must be far too sensible to be a pilot
Seriously though, as an ex-OAT stude myself, many of the comments posted here are sadly rather familiar, but I have to admit to a certain amount of surprise at the poor pass rates on the flying side at OAT. Do these figures include the efforts of the rather large numbers of Algerian students who have passed through OAT in recent years?
If so, then it would be hardly surprising to discover a poor pass rate as the overall application to achieving an acceptable standard of flying was often worse than poor (not applicable to all Algerian students as there were some exceptionally dedicated and skillful individuals, but sadly the majority it seems) and would hence drag down the school average. On a purely anecdotal basis, I was aware of a very good rate of first-time passes amongst the remainder of the students and would be shocked if this was significantly worse than elsewhere.
Additionally, the choice of routes for the IRT may also be a factor. OAT have 2 CAA examiners on site, and a favourite route is Coventry - Cranfield with 2 of the nastiest procedures in the area and an increased opportunity to cock it all up. I'm sure many other schools use these same airfields, but it may be that OAT perhaps recieve it more often than most due to the proximity to Oxford and the 'home advantage' at Cabair perhaps means they receive an NDB procedure there less often.
Flying Dwarf
Have you been at the Stella again my vertically challenged friend? Not all the BA cadets were that bad. Perhaps your recent experience at Cranebank has affected you badly - just think of a nice afternoon trip backseating the ILS at Filton with Chuckles and Ginger. Now doesn't that feel better already?
Luv you mate
Guest
Posts: n/a
flying dwarf - sorry if have come across as someone less than desirable on those previous posts. Obviously not my intention.
I don't mean to sound like I am reading from their web-site or brochures, I was merely commenting on the differences between the APP and the integrated course.
Yes I agree that there is a lot of marketing hype around it and at the end of the day you only end up with the same licenses as someone from any other route. I can also understand the viewpoint that the addons are debatable in their desirability. I am considering everything I read here and I'm not trying to convince myself.
Just so I don't get slagged off anymore for sounding like some brain washed OAT marketing machine:
-Yes I concede that the course is the most expensive route of doing things. There is also no real reason for this overpricing.
-Yes I concede that their halls are meant to be quite grotty.
-Yes I concede that the chances of getting employment are not necessarily increased through Oxford.
Oxford's standard of training is good and I would like to do it. I have to go on the APP now cos' they have scrapped the old integrated course. I don't really want to do the modular route as I have no real commitments at the moment and I just want to go and get really stuck in. All the stuff that they are meant to be offering on top of the integrated course will not be detrimental to my chances of getting employed at the end of the course.
I am not as blinkered to other ideas as I may have appeared in the other posts, I have just thought about it quite a lot and come to my own conclusions.
Many people mention bad levels of customer service from Oxford. I have not seen any sign of this. I have only experienced curtious staff with plenty of time for me and quickly returned phone calls. Yes I concede this might be cos' there are trying to get to part with my hard earned cash, but maybe their attitude has changed?
PT
I don't mean to sound like I am reading from their web-site or brochures, I was merely commenting on the differences between the APP and the integrated course.
Yes I agree that there is a lot of marketing hype around it and at the end of the day you only end up with the same licenses as someone from any other route. I can also understand the viewpoint that the addons are debatable in their desirability. I am considering everything I read here and I'm not trying to convince myself.
Just so I don't get slagged off anymore for sounding like some brain washed OAT marketing machine:
-Yes I concede that the course is the most expensive route of doing things. There is also no real reason for this overpricing.
-Yes I concede that their halls are meant to be quite grotty.
-Yes I concede that the chances of getting employment are not necessarily increased through Oxford.
Oxford's standard of training is good and I would like to do it. I have to go on the APP now cos' they have scrapped the old integrated course. I don't really want to do the modular route as I have no real commitments at the moment and I just want to go and get really stuck in. All the stuff that they are meant to be offering on top of the integrated course will not be detrimental to my chances of getting employed at the end of the course.
I am not as blinkered to other ideas as I may have appeared in the other posts, I have just thought about it quite a lot and come to my own conclusions.
Many people mention bad levels of customer service from Oxford. I have not seen any sign of this. I have only experienced curtious staff with plenty of time for me and quickly returned phone calls. Yes I concede this might be cos' there are trying to get to part with my hard earned cash, but maybe their attitude has changed?
PT