Rip off Britain!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Among the clouds
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rip off Britain!!!
I've just being trying to find a reasonably accurate forcast for Saturday as i'm supposed to be going flying. I've looked on the met-office.gov/aviation website but unfortunately it doesn't extend to the weekend.
I then saw a link to 'talk to a met office forecaster'. Great I think and click on it.
Now, bearing in mind when I was flying in Florida I could just ring up the nice people in St Petersberg, give them my route and they would give me the actual and forecast weather plus any NOTAMS etc for my planned route for free.
Finally, I think to myself, i've found this service in the UK. I click on the link and what does it say?
[quote]Call and speak to one of our Met Office forecasters for an in-depth forecast <hr></blockquote>
And the price? £17!!! Are they taking the p**s? <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
I then saw a link to 'talk to a met office forecaster'. Great I think and click on it.
Now, bearing in mind when I was flying in Florida I could just ring up the nice people in St Petersberg, give them my route and they would give me the actual and forecast weather plus any NOTAMS etc for my planned route for free.
Finally, I think to myself, i've found this service in the UK. I click on the link and what does it say?
[quote]Call and speak to one of our Met Office forecasters for an in-depth forecast <hr></blockquote>
And the price? £17!!! Are they taking the p**s? <img src="mad.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: London
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pressed the wrong key.
As I was saying, anything related to aviation here is a rip off. In fact if you look at anything else say food, services,cars, petrol etc and compare it with the prices on the continent it is a rip off as well. Did you know that to travel by rail in Europe is on average 50% cheaper than here? Makes you proud to be British!
The sooner we get the Euro the sooner people will realize the extent of the robbery we are being subjected to.
As I was saying, anything related to aviation here is a rip off. In fact if you look at anything else say food, services,cars, petrol etc and compare it with the prices on the continent it is a rip off as well. Did you know that to travel by rail in Europe is on average 50% cheaper than here? Makes you proud to be British!
The sooner we get the Euro the sooner people will realize the extent of the robbery we are being subjected to.
I'm also hoping to aviate on Saturday. The best 3 day weather forecast I have found so far can be found on <a href="http://theyr.com/cg/cny/NA" target="_blank">Weather Forecast</a>. If you select the area closest to you it gives a very good idea of the weather. I have been using it for about a year and found it to be amazingly accurate for rain, cloud and wind. Difficult to predict cloudbase but I find the Met Office often can't do that even an hour ahead.
Apart from that it looks as if it's going to be somewhat windy.
Let's hope we are both happy on Saturday <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Apart from that it looks as if it's going to be somewhat windy.
Let's hope we are both happy on Saturday <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Southern UK
Age: 63
Posts: 282
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is a good link to a site that is primarily for glider pilots , it is a good starting point.
<a href="http://www.itadvice.co.uk/weatherjack/wx.htm" target="_blank">http://www.itadvice.co.uk/weatherjack/wx.htm</a>
I hope it helps
wunper <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
<a href="http://www.itadvice.co.uk/weatherjack/wx.htm" target="_blank">http://www.itadvice.co.uk/weatherjack/wx.htm</a>
I hope it helps
wunper <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
The dear old Met Office is online for free is you register with them.
In this instance talking to a Met Officer means exactly that. You could ask him/her to calculate an adiabatic lapse rate either side of a front and they could do so. In the US you are really just talking to a person who can read you out information that is at his/her fingertips and available elsewhere.
The Met Office service was never intended for light GA use and this is reflected in the fees.
If you want to see an overly regulated, officious and rule ridden GA scene you need only try to fly in Continental Europe. My experience of Spanish, Italian and French GA flying is that they rather wish you would not. Nearly everywhere is some form of controlled airspace and the regulations are a nightmare.
It is somewhat spurious to simply moan that US GA is cheaper. So is eveything there. But unless Europe is going to declare itself one country, adopt Federal law, slash social spending and adopt fully fledged market economics then costs will always be higher here than there.
But then WE have the South of France, German cars, Italian clothes, Scandanavian phones, Irish eyes and British humour. They have McDonalds and warped gun laws.
Oh and with 200hrs over there you might get a job flying some knackered twin in the middle of the night to deliver bank cheques. Here you might get a job flying 757's with 200+ pax...
WWW
In this instance talking to a Met Officer means exactly that. You could ask him/her to calculate an adiabatic lapse rate either side of a front and they could do so. In the US you are really just talking to a person who can read you out information that is at his/her fingertips and available elsewhere.
The Met Office service was never intended for light GA use and this is reflected in the fees.
If you want to see an overly regulated, officious and rule ridden GA scene you need only try to fly in Continental Europe. My experience of Spanish, Italian and French GA flying is that they rather wish you would not. Nearly everywhere is some form of controlled airspace and the regulations are a nightmare.
It is somewhat spurious to simply moan that US GA is cheaper. So is eveything there. But unless Europe is going to declare itself one country, adopt Federal law, slash social spending and adopt fully fledged market economics then costs will always be higher here than there.
But then WE have the South of France, German cars, Italian clothes, Scandanavian phones, Irish eyes and British humour. They have McDonalds and warped gun laws.
Oh and with 200hrs over there you might get a job flying some knackered twin in the middle of the night to deliver bank cheques. Here you might get a job flying 757's with 200+ pax...
WWW
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: europe
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RV 800is corect in recommending the Dutch link.
I would recommend using the US surface forcasts options which go 5 days forward, and once you are aware of what they do not show, they are a pretty good guide as to which days to plan for VFR trips.
The swedish link <a href="http://www.lfv.se/site/pilot_info/briefing/index.asp" target="_blank">www.lfv.se/site/pilot_info/briefing/index.asp</a>
gives 18 hour TAFS for major airports, and is quicker than the Dutch site for a list of metars and 9 hour TAFS.
I can't agree that flying in France is a problem, but if anyone has tips for flying in Italy I would welcome them, perhaps on a new thread?
I would recommend using the US surface forcasts options which go 5 days forward, and once you are aware of what they do not show, they are a pretty good guide as to which days to plan for VFR trips.
The swedish link <a href="http://www.lfv.se/site/pilot_info/briefing/index.asp" target="_blank">www.lfv.se/site/pilot_info/briefing/index.asp</a>
gives 18 hour TAFS for major airports, and is quicker than the Dutch site for a list of metars and 9 hour TAFS.
I can't agree that flying in France is a problem, but if anyone has tips for flying in Italy I would welcome them, perhaps on a new thread?
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Among the clouds
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
WWW,
Fair enough to say that. However, in every single FBO I went into in Florida (even Cross City which is like Backwardsville USA - the toilet and bar were in the same room. I kid you not!!!) there was a weather computer available that showed just about every single bit of weather info one could wish for.
I regularly use the TAF's and METAR's on the met office website, I was just astounded to think that they could think charging £17 to talk to a whether forecaster is reasonable. £5 maybe but £17??
On the point of GA being cheaper.....well the majority of their aircraft are newer and better equiped. A lot of FBO's had pilot's lounges where free coffee and TV could be enjoyed in big ass leather chairs. A lot of them also would give you a free courtesy car for a few hours, as well as parking and chocking your plane for you. And the price? £0. Zip. nuffinck. In the UK, you are charged a fiver for daring to land on a grass strip. I know which i'd rather have.
Also,
[quote]But then WE have the South of France, German cars, Italian clothes, Scandanavian phones, Irish eyes and British humour. They have McDonalds and warped gun laws. <hr></blockquote>
Bear in mind they have nicer places than the South of France without the inconvenience of the French, they can buy German cars cheaper than we can, their women aren't exactly minging (I can confirm this after having the pleasure of attending a cheerleading competition in Miami) and their humour means we Brits can feel superior when we visit.
<img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Oh, and when eating at their McDonalds you don't run the risk of standing up and walking headlong into the nearest wall. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Fair enough to say that. However, in every single FBO I went into in Florida (even Cross City which is like Backwardsville USA - the toilet and bar were in the same room. I kid you not!!!) there was a weather computer available that showed just about every single bit of weather info one could wish for.
I regularly use the TAF's and METAR's on the met office website, I was just astounded to think that they could think charging £17 to talk to a whether forecaster is reasonable. £5 maybe but £17??
On the point of GA being cheaper.....well the majority of their aircraft are newer and better equiped. A lot of FBO's had pilot's lounges where free coffee and TV could be enjoyed in big ass leather chairs. A lot of them also would give you a free courtesy car for a few hours, as well as parking and chocking your plane for you. And the price? £0. Zip. nuffinck. In the UK, you are charged a fiver for daring to land on a grass strip. I know which i'd rather have.
Also,
[quote]But then WE have the South of France, German cars, Italian clothes, Scandanavian phones, Irish eyes and British humour. They have McDonalds and warped gun laws. <hr></blockquote>
Bear in mind they have nicer places than the South of France without the inconvenience of the French, they can buy German cars cheaper than we can, their women aren't exactly minging (I can confirm this after having the pleasure of attending a cheerleading competition in Miami) and their humour means we Brits can feel superior when we visit.
<img src="wink.gif" border="0"> Oh, and when eating at their McDonalds you don't run the risk of standing up and walking headlong into the nearest wall. <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
WWW,
Have you EVER been to the United States?
I guess I had forgotten that the UK was responsible for "the South of France, German cars, Italian clothes, Scandanavian phones, Irish eyes and British humour." Must be representative of the UK control of the EU?
OK, I concede that British humour definitely originates in the UK! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Any Frenchmen here care to concede that the UK is responsible for the South of France?
Any Germans here here care to concede that the UK is responsible for the German motor industry?
Any Italians out there care to concede that the UK is responsible for the Italian fashion industry.
Any Swedes out there care to concede that the UK is responsible for the manufacture of Swedish telecommunication equipment?
And the Irish! My God, maybe someone from Ireland might confirm that the UK is responsible for those beautiful Irish eyes smiling?
Still, at least the UK is responsible for the aircraft that you operate and make a living flying!
McDonalds and warped gun laws? At least you have a balanced view-point!
At least I still maintain my sense of humour!
Have you EVER been to the United States?
I guess I had forgotten that the UK was responsible for "the South of France, German cars, Italian clothes, Scandanavian phones, Irish eyes and British humour." Must be representative of the UK control of the EU?
OK, I concede that British humour definitely originates in the UK! <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Any Frenchmen here care to concede that the UK is responsible for the South of France?
Any Germans here here care to concede that the UK is responsible for the German motor industry?
Any Italians out there care to concede that the UK is responsible for the Italian fashion industry.
Any Swedes out there care to concede that the UK is responsible for the manufacture of Swedish telecommunication equipment?
And the Irish! My God, maybe someone from Ireland might confirm that the UK is responsible for those beautiful Irish eyes smiling?
Still, at least the UK is responsible for the aircraft that you operate and make a living flying!
McDonalds and warped gun laws? At least you have a balanced view-point!
At least I still maintain my sense of humour!
We being European. Somewhat obviously.
If you like the States so much go emigrate and stop whinging. Would be my advice.
If you can't discern dry wit when it is presented then perhaps you should stick to Friends, Cheers and the Fresh Prince.
WWW
If you like the States so much go emigrate and stop whinging. Would be my advice.
If you can't discern dry wit when it is presented then perhaps you should stick to Friends, Cheers and the Fresh Prince.
WWW
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
<a href="http://www..." target="_blank">www...</a>
My sentiments precisely...
Or, stop winging; learn to read a synoptic chart and work it out for yourself. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
My sentiments precisely...
Or, stop winging; learn to read a synoptic chart and work it out for yourself. <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nicely put WWW,
I can assure you that GA flying in the UK is much easier than flying in The Netherlands. As for cost, well it is difficult trying to draw a direct comparison, but as a percentage of disposable income, the UK doesnt come out too badly in comparison.
Dont forget when you in the UK buy a car from Holland, Belgium or Denmark you dont pay some of the draconian 'Green' taxes, which will amount to about 2000 pounds for those people not exporting a new car. In fact I believe Denmark is the most expensive country in Europe to buy a car if you live there. The UK may be ripped off in some areas but other countries in Europe are ripped off in others.
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Flypuppy ]</p>
I can assure you that GA flying in the UK is much easier than flying in The Netherlands. As for cost, well it is difficult trying to draw a direct comparison, but as a percentage of disposable income, the UK doesnt come out too badly in comparison.
Dont forget when you in the UK buy a car from Holland, Belgium or Denmark you dont pay some of the draconian 'Green' taxes, which will amount to about 2000 pounds for those people not exporting a new car. In fact I believe Denmark is the most expensive country in Europe to buy a car if you live there. The UK may be ripped off in some areas but other countries in Europe are ripped off in others.
[ 16 January 2002: Message edited by: Flypuppy ]</p>
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Being married to an American I have experienced my wife giving me a comprehsive list of all the things that are cheaper/better in the USA.
The strange thing is that quite a few of he things she thought were really cool about the states were actualy made in Britain!
She has a couple of degrees but for some reason when they told her that Marconi invented radio they did not give the impression that he was not American.
When visiting I often wonder how they can do so many things and charge so little.
I mean sometimes it just does not add up until you take in to account that the price of the land over there is a lot cheaper.
I have wondered just what it would take to create an airfield here that did all of the things that the best fbo's do in the states.
In the end I gave up because the costs were prohibitive but I did start to appreciate what we do get here for a measly little landing fee.
Oh, I also realised I had only seen one aspect of it when I overhead my wife telling her brother last year, about all the things we have back home in the UK that are better than they have in the states.
The strange thing is that quite a few of he things she thought were really cool about the states were actualy made in Britain!
She has a couple of degrees but for some reason when they told her that Marconi invented radio they did not give the impression that he was not American.
When visiting I often wonder how they can do so many things and charge so little.
I mean sometimes it just does not add up until you take in to account that the price of the land over there is a lot cheaper.
I have wondered just what it would take to create an airfield here that did all of the things that the best fbo's do in the states.
In the end I gave up because the costs were prohibitive but I did start to appreciate what we do get here for a measly little landing fee.
Oh, I also realised I had only seen one aspect of it when I overhead my wife telling her brother last year, about all the things we have back home in the UK that are better than they have in the states.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver Island
Posts: 2,517
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I live in Canada and my two partners and I work out of London.
I find most things are priced about the same only problem I have is for every pound I buy it costs me $2.25 Canadian, so most things for me are 2.25% higher.
I have an Aerobat converted to a Texas Taildragger I charge $140.00 Canadian for advanced dual in it. That is about 62 quid. Light aircraft pay no landing fees at almost all airports in Canada.
What would the same airplane go for dual in England?
..................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
I find most things are priced about the same only problem I have is for every pound I buy it costs me $2.25 Canadian, so most things for me are 2.25% higher.
I have an Aerobat converted to a Texas Taildragger I charge $140.00 Canadian for advanced dual in it. That is about 62 quid. Light aircraft pay no landing fees at almost all airports in Canada.
What would the same airplane go for dual in England?
..................
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Yorkshire
Posts: 1,040
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont think WWW has ever ventured out of the UK from his comments about US weather briefers!
If he had he would know that if you question them 'after they have ust read information out availiable elsewhere' he would find that they actually pretty knowledgable and also having being given PIREP as well as standard weather data can also be very usful - you would be a pratt not to use them. They will also file your flight plan for you which is a nice touch!
Maybe WWW et al could do with emigrating for a while and have a look and see just where British GA could learn from our foreign neighbours. Being a frequent flyer in both countries it shows you where things we take for granted in the UK are woefully inadequate when compared to the services given to GA in other countries.
Julian.
If he had he would know that if you question them 'after they have ust read information out availiable elsewhere' he would find that they actually pretty knowledgable and also having being given PIREP as well as standard weather data can also be very usful - you would be a pratt not to use them. They will also file your flight plan for you which is a nice touch!
Maybe WWW et al could do with emigrating for a while and have a look and see just where British GA could learn from our foreign neighbours. Being a frequent flyer in both countries it shows you where things we take for granted in the UK are woefully inadequate when compared to the services given to GA in other countries.
Julian.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 75N 16E
Age: 54
Posts: 4,729
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hmmm,
[quote] In this instance talking to a Met Officer means exactly that. You could ask him/her to calculate an adiabatic lapse rate either side of a front and they could do so. In the US you are really just talking to a person who can read you out information that is at his/her fingertips and available elsewhere.<hr></blockquote>
Have you ever phoned one WWW, or is this just what you've read? The forecaster on the phone in the US....(note, free phone call, free service)...gives a very comprehensive forecast, with advice pertinent to your flight such as NOTAMS, SIGMETS, and other advisories, all amalgamated into the pre flight briefing. Ok, you may be able to gain this info on your own via the internet, but there is no substitute for talking to a 'real' person who is qualified to tell you whether you should or should not make the flight.
By the way, GA is cheaper in the US! If I want, I can fly into LAX and it costs no more than the Hobbs time. I'd like to see anyone land an Arrow at LHR. It really is as simplistic as that!!!
Cheers
EA
[quote] In this instance talking to a Met Officer means exactly that. You could ask him/her to calculate an adiabatic lapse rate either side of a front and they could do so. In the US you are really just talking to a person who can read you out information that is at his/her fingertips and available elsewhere.<hr></blockquote>
Have you ever phoned one WWW, or is this just what you've read? The forecaster on the phone in the US....(note, free phone call, free service)...gives a very comprehensive forecast, with advice pertinent to your flight such as NOTAMS, SIGMETS, and other advisories, all amalgamated into the pre flight briefing. Ok, you may be able to gain this info on your own via the internet, but there is no substitute for talking to a 'real' person who is qualified to tell you whether you should or should not make the flight.
By the way, GA is cheaper in the US! If I want, I can fly into LAX and it costs no more than the Hobbs time. I'd like to see anyone land an Arrow at LHR. It really is as simplistic as that!!!
Cheers
EA
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 87
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
english
I agree with the majority of what say; however, your statement and I quote;
"but there is no substitute for talking to a 'real' person who is qualified to tell you whether you should or should not make the flight"
is simply incorrect. It is the forecaster's job to provide the commander with information on the weather and a forecast if he is qualified to do so.
It is the commanders job to use the information provided to decide whether he should or should not make the flight.
The commander is ultimately responsible and answerable for his actions, if something went wrong in your scenario the can you imagine having to stand up in front of the CAA / FAA and say "well sir the weather man told me to go". <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
I agree with the majority of what say; however, your statement and I quote;
"but there is no substitute for talking to a 'real' person who is qualified to tell you whether you should or should not make the flight"
is simply incorrect. It is the forecaster's job to provide the commander with information on the weather and a forecast if he is qualified to do so.
It is the commanders job to use the information provided to decide whether he should or should not make the flight.
The commander is ultimately responsible and answerable for his actions, if something went wrong in your scenario the can you imagine having to stand up in front of the CAA / FAA and say "well sir the weather man told me to go". <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">