Ryan Air and EZ Jet Looking!!
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Ryan Air and EZ Jet Looking!!
I was speaking to a fellow pilot at our club the other week. He is training at a centre down south (I mention no names) and says that Ryan Air and Easy Jet came in looking for pilots whilst he was there. So its happening. One of our flying instructors also got an application form sent from BA to apply for a job there too!!
A word of caution though. Neither EZ Jet or Ryan air will pay for your type rating and you have to fork out yourself!! How much I hear you ask? £20,000. But.... after that you can start on £30K salary as first officer. Just a rumour and I cannot confirm but there you go.
Soggy
A word of caution though. Neither EZ Jet or Ryan air will pay for your type rating and you have to fork out yourself!! How much I hear you ask? £20,000. But.... after that you can start on £30K salary as first officer. Just a rumour and I cannot confirm but there you go.
Soggy
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Bad day .......
I just spent ages writing a rant about my contempt at expecting us to pay for type ratings and it's vanished into thin air !!!! Arggggggggghhh
but it basically went along the lines of .....
20K is small change for these companies, never mind the fact they can write if off against taxes as training expenses. However, 20K is a lot to the average Joe Blow, who has already just forked out for an fATPL. With the all the expenses of living in the UK today, paying back 20K would take a long time on top of mortgage/rent, food, bills, other loans ..
The more people cough this fee up, the airlines will twig they can get away with expecting us to pay for it all the time !! Liek I say, it's small potatoes to them !!
It stinks !!!
C.G. ...... quick post before it disappears into the ether again ......
but it basically went along the lines of .....
20K is small change for these companies, never mind the fact they can write if off against taxes as training expenses. However, 20K is a lot to the average Joe Blow, who has already just forked out for an fATPL. With the all the expenses of living in the UK today, paying back 20K would take a long time on top of mortgage/rent, food, bills, other loans ..
The more people cough this fee up, the airlines will twig they can get away with expecting us to pay for it all the time !! Liek I say, it's small potatoes to them !!
It stinks !!!
C.G. ...... quick post before it disappears into the ether again ......
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I think you'll find that the ONLY way to get into EJ is via the online application form and IF you have a type rating they want some hours to go with it. If I'm wrong please somebody (preferably an EJ employee) let me/us know.
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Hopefully this is an indication that the situation is begining to improve for newly qualified pilots.
I don't wish to dispute the post but i'm supprised with the comment about forking out for the initial type rating.
I have been under the impression in the past that the situation described infered that the airline paid for the type rating initialy, and the person in question paid the airline back over a period of time out of their salary.
Hopefully this still is the case, otherwise we are getting into territory where the applicant needs enough spare cash after initial trainning to not only pay for submission of CV's, interviews and sim rides but to cover the cost of a type rating, just to be able to apply for a job.
That would mean that many people would need in the region of 60-70k instead of the 40-50k already needed to go from zero to RHS.
Anyone care to correct me?
I don't wish to dispute the post but i'm supprised with the comment about forking out for the initial type rating.
I have been under the impression in the past that the situation described infered that the airline paid for the type rating initialy, and the person in question paid the airline back over a period of time out of their salary.
Hopefully this still is the case, otherwise we are getting into territory where the applicant needs enough spare cash after initial trainning to not only pay for submission of CV's, interviews and sim rides but to cover the cost of a type rating, just to be able to apply for a job.
That would mean that many people would need in the region of 60-70k instead of the 40-50k already needed to go from zero to RHS.
Anyone care to correct me?
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Soggy, very surprised to hear that Easy would be expecting you to pay for your type rating, Ryan Air....well expect anything from them which is another reason why personally, and I do say personally, I would never want to work for that lot, so before you all jump on my back we are all entitled to our opinions.
Easy jet come across as a very good quality airline, but I am going off the tracks a bit.
Canada Goose, quite agree, this type of job offer, (if it is true) stinks, but the sad thing is there are many out there who will pay up and play into the employers hands, believe me 20k on 30k per year still takes some paying back, but when you are trying to get a foot in the door anything seems attractive.
I believe Virgin Blue make you pay for the type rating as well, however they pay you back over a period for the rating, someone from down under will be able to confirm this?
At least they are remotely fair about it.
I do hope for all our sakes that there is an upturn in the market, however to be blunt all those wannabes really do need to be very shrewed when taking the plunge, especially with the timing.
You can only go for so long throwing good money after good money into a very big hole.
We always hear of the guy/girl who got an interview or job, but we hear less of the poor sods who have been looking in some cases for years........
Easy jet come across as a very good quality airline, but I am going off the tracks a bit.
Canada Goose, quite agree, this type of job offer, (if it is true) stinks, but the sad thing is there are many out there who will pay up and play into the employers hands, believe me 20k on 30k per year still takes some paying back, but when you are trying to get a foot in the door anything seems attractive.
I believe Virgin Blue make you pay for the type rating as well, however they pay you back over a period for the rating, someone from down under will be able to confirm this?
At least they are remotely fair about it.
I do hope for all our sakes that there is an upturn in the market, however to be blunt all those wannabes really do need to be very shrewed when taking the plunge, especially with the timing.
You can only go for so long throwing good money after good money into a very big hole.
We always hear of the guy/girl who got an interview or job, but we hear less of the poor sods who have been looking in some cases for years........
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paying for type ratings
Sadly, it does appear that Easy will be looking for people to pay for their own type ratings.
Ryan's have already started the ball rolling with their "£18000 for a 737-200 TR and a job for six months" scheme, and believe me plenty of people are applying for that, 40 have been taken on this year and another 80 will be next year, and they are inundated with applications.
Eazy now want 500 hours on type if you have a 737TR, so buying your own won't help there, but they are likely to set up their own "cadetship" for nnon TR people - a friend of mine works at Aviance in LGW and an EZY Captain told him to expect to pay about £14000 for their cadetship (goodbye CTC?).
Rumours are that JMC will be looking at a similar scheme too.
If people are prepared to pay, the airlines will carry on with this.
Ryan's have already started the ball rolling with their "£18000 for a 737-200 TR and a job for six months" scheme, and believe me plenty of people are applying for that, 40 have been taken on this year and another 80 will be next year, and they are inundated with applications.
Eazy now want 500 hours on type if you have a 737TR, so buying your own won't help there, but they are likely to set up their own "cadetship" for nnon TR people - a friend of mine works at Aviance in LGW and an EZY Captain told him to expect to pay about £14000 for their cadetship (goodbye CTC?).
Rumours are that JMC will be looking at a similar scheme too.
If people are prepared to pay, the airlines will carry on with this.
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Let's pretend to be pilots...
It is all in line with the way the wannabe market is going. Fly for free, pay them to fly, pay for rating, pay for application.......the list goes on and on and will go on and on if we accept it.
Once you are in you'll probably find you have to pay for your uniform, pay for your hotel room on a stopover, buy your own drink in the cruise, collect your wages every fortnight from the lady at the cash office.
If I want to get screwed I go to a lady of the night not an airline.
haggard the horrible.
Once you are in you'll probably find you have to pay for your uniform, pay for your hotel room on a stopover, buy your own drink in the cruise, collect your wages every fortnight from the lady at the cash office.
If I want to get screwed I go to a lady of the night not an airline.
haggard the horrible.
EZY currently pay for yout type rating and bond you for it for 3 years - same as Go and most other airlines. The bond in Go has been 12k for a 737 course.
Nobody from EZY would be attending a flying school looking to recruit - its simply not done that way.
WWW
Nobody from EZY would be attending a flying school looking to recruit - its simply not done that way.
WWW
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I'm not in favour of a pilot paying for his airline type rating but have no gripes with bonding, a sensible device to protect the employer. However, I've been unemployed for 8 months with a JAA fATPL and 5000 hours (including 2400 ME Jet time) and looking for a step onto the civilian ladder. As I live off my savings for me personally it could make financial sense to pay for my TR as once employed I'm not living off savings (-£2K/month) and I'm being paid (+£3K/month). These are not easy times and so compromises may have to be made to get a job. Nobody said life was fair!
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Yes...Ryanair are recruiting. If you are willing to spare circa £20K then that is the biggest hurdle overcome. For low hours applicants you could expect to wait 2 months from IRT to Interview and Sim Check. The plus side is that you will be worked hard and unfreezing your ATPL will not be a problem and they seem to be willing to offer commands in 2-3 years which is also another bonus.
However you are parting with your cash and your are not even secured a job with the company, that is a payment for the type rating course. You are also starting on a salary that is greatly reduced, which does not help if you had taken out a loan for £20K for the course. I have a friend who applied to them and was treated very badly by their HR department while they cancelled interviews and type rating courses at very short notice and this lasted over a year. Maybe I am being far too cynical but I would rather instruct that work for Ryanair!
MG
However you are parting with your cash and your are not even secured a job with the company, that is a payment for the type rating course. You are also starting on a salary that is greatly reduced, which does not help if you had taken out a loan for £20K for the course. I have a friend who applied to them and was treated very badly by their HR department while they cancelled interviews and type rating courses at very short notice and this lasted over a year. Maybe I am being far too cynical but I would rather instruct that work for Ryanair!
MG
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Well I have not had any luck at all with both of these airlines.Applied to Ryan 3 times now and on each occasion have not had a confirmation e mail,the money has not even been deducted from my credit card yet.I even faxed the number to query this and still they haven't responded.EJ have had 3 applications,nothing from them either! I am 737 rated with 1500 hours on type.Having read this thread I now know why Ihave been unsuccessful,I am 39 with wife and mortgage to support and will not work for free! So all you young wanabees who probably don't have a wife ,kids and mortgage ,work for free then when you find yourself out of work at 40 with commitments, see how you feel then! Time to change profession for me I think.
I am personally fed up with these Airlines asking U to pay for your own TR on a so called promise of a job, and not just EZY and RYAN Air either. You have all paid a hell of alot to get into an employable position so these companies can pay the last hurdle in my opinion.
Hope you all get a job not paying for your TR, I'm off to another country. EZY KMA
Hope you all get a job not paying for your TR, I'm off to another country. EZY KMA
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I am from abroad so not very familiar with UK regulations. But, isn't there some kind of in the middle (government or union) body, that can prevent airlines from taking advantage of their future pilots??
The way it is going (taking certain rumours in this thread for true), a positive turn in the market for airline pilots' vacancies doesn't look like more jobs are going to help pilots from not having to pay for an increasing number of extra's. (e.g. TR's and low commitments from airlines). Effectively increasing riscs and insecurities only more... (this still is a "rumour network" but, plse correct me if I am wrong about the above mentioned)
Jaxx
The way it is going (taking certain rumours in this thread for true), a positive turn in the market for airline pilots' vacancies doesn't look like more jobs are going to help pilots from not having to pay for an increasing number of extra's. (e.g. TR's and low commitments from airlines). Effectively increasing riscs and insecurities only more... (this still is a "rumour network" but, plse correct me if I am wrong about the above mentioned)
Jaxx
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Oh Yes!!
The training establishment concerned was Oxford Aviation so whether the individual I spoke to was just full of it or not is open to question.
I think Easy Jet Do do these sort of things and I also am aware that applying to companies like Ryan Air actually costs you money for some reason!!!???
Personally I agree with all of you. Its scandalous!!
I know that some operate a bond scheme and I suppose thats fair enough.
Thething is, it cannot be financially viable to go through all the ATPL training which will costs approx £40K, THEN have to pay another £20K for a TR THEN pay to apply, THEN get about £20K a year after all that....if you're lucky.
I'm off to start my own airline!! Its cheaper!!
That'll teach 'em!!!
I think Easy Jet Do do these sort of things and I also am aware that applying to companies like Ryan Air actually costs you money for some reason!!!???
Personally I agree with all of you. Its scandalous!!
I know that some operate a bond scheme and I suppose thats fair enough.
Thething is, it cannot be financially viable to go through all the ATPL training which will costs approx £40K, THEN have to pay another £20K for a TR THEN pay to apply, THEN get about £20K a year after all that....if you're lucky.
I'm off to start my own airline!! Its cheaper!!
That'll teach 'em!!!
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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I'm glad everyone is in agreement that the system stinks.
But I can see why airlines are doing it with the present economic climate in this industry and training budgets is one of the biggest budgets in any airline.
It doesn't suprise me the low-cost operators have started operating this scheme, i'm actually suprised they didn't start it before now. It clearly works well for Astraeus and other charter airlines who's busy period is between the months of May and October and need alot more crew numbers only for this period.
At this moment in time, I think it's purely market driven. Airlines need to cut costs and they are able to do so by asking in-experianced pilots to pay for their rating and get away with paying them very little when they are on-line. But will this continue if/when the so called pilot shortage appears and there is alot more choice ?
Also, with all the companies mentioned here, we are talking about jet types. I was always told to aim high but maybe all of us low-houred guys should lower our standards and expectations to a more realistic level until the pilot market comes out of the present low. There are still alot of turbo-prop operators around the UK (flybe / B.A.C.E / Logan Air / bmi regional). Even the 146 is a realistic type to aim for. You will probably be bonded but so what!, you'll have a permanent contract and be earning the same as those guy's who have just paid out 20K for a type rating and run the threat of getting laid off at the end of the summer...
Just a thought....
But I can see why airlines are doing it with the present economic climate in this industry and training budgets is one of the biggest budgets in any airline.
It doesn't suprise me the low-cost operators have started operating this scheme, i'm actually suprised they didn't start it before now. It clearly works well for Astraeus and other charter airlines who's busy period is between the months of May and October and need alot more crew numbers only for this period.
At this moment in time, I think it's purely market driven. Airlines need to cut costs and they are able to do so by asking in-experianced pilots to pay for their rating and get away with paying them very little when they are on-line. But will this continue if/when the so called pilot shortage appears and there is alot more choice ?
Also, with all the companies mentioned here, we are talking about jet types. I was always told to aim high but maybe all of us low-houred guys should lower our standards and expectations to a more realistic level until the pilot market comes out of the present low. There are still alot of turbo-prop operators around the UK (flybe / B.A.C.E / Logan Air / bmi regional). Even the 146 is a realistic type to aim for. You will probably be bonded but so what!, you'll have a permanent contract and be earning the same as those guy's who have just paid out 20K for a type rating and run the threat of getting laid off at the end of the summer...
Just a thought....
Last edited by JB007; 25th Aug 2002 at 13:18.
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NO NO NO
This whole concept of paying for your TR is a scandal. I personally find it insulting that companies such as Ryan are asking, no making you pay firstly to LOOK at your CV then to pay for your Interview/selection then once again, pay for your sim and then if your extremely lucky you get to pay for a 737-200 TR which even then there is no guarantee of a job and we all know that a 737-200 TR has no value whatsoever in todays market. Im sorry but as long as we continue giving in to these companies the more and more they will take advantage of us. YES we all want that illusive job, but I dont think ANYONE should be coughing up another 20K after already investing 40-50K for a fATPL. They need pilots, we all know that, and if we ALL dont give in to them they will have to change their policies on low timers but im afraid to say there are enough folks out there willing/able/stupid enough to pay up. No wonder EZY and Ryan's profits are so good.