Expectation for landing a job straight out of Flight Academy

[Sorath]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this great forum. Hoping to get some good advice from all of you.

I'm starting my Integrated ATPL in April, so I guess I'll be done by Q1 2022, and really I'm just trying not to think of it but, it's fairly fighting to think of the panorama of employment for rookies. My main worry is trying to land a job without any TR, and hoping to get some sort of bonded type of contract... I will definitely NOT go into pay-to-fly or similar type of entry into the industry, since I think it's totally unethical and just bombs the way for future generations of pilots... and worse, if you have the money and not the skill you can just waltz your way in, unbelievable.

I'm starting in European Flyers in Madrid, because it suits me best. Seems to be one of the best schools in Madrid and it's what I can afford since it's where I live and work as a Ground Test Aircraft Systems Engineer for Airbus.

So, the point is... can I expect to find in Europe or Asia any type of job offers for Cadets without TR and 200Hrs in two years time? Or will I have to grind my way to 500Hrs out of my pocket in a SEP, to get more PIC hours, or can I just forget about everything without a self sponsored TR for a A320/B737?

I guess aiming for Asia for a first job without experience is a little farfetched... (note I want to pay off my loan ASAP)

Thanks! Hoping to hear ANY kind of advice / experience / recommendation.

[Evoluxione]

To be honest nobody knows if you can or can't find a job in two years time with or without the TR. If I were you then I wouldn't stress too much about that as you will find that out eventually when you graduate anyways.

That said I would prepare myself(and my finances) for the "worst" which is that you need to pay for the TR yourself anyway.

[Sorath]

Originally Posted by Evoluxione

To be honest nobody knows if you can or can't find a job in two years time with or without the TR. If I were you then I wouldn't stress too much about that as you will find that out eventually when you graduate anyways.

That said I would prepare myself(and my finances) for the "worst" which is that you need to pay for the TR yourself anyway.

Thanks, guess preparing for the worst case scenario is always best. Just curious if there are or will be real opportunities in the future... everywhere I read there is someone ranting about the next economic depression and how that's going to affect air travel, which is probably true... but then again, a lot of senior captains will be retiring moving the food chain upwards...

Guess I'm just looking for some hope from someone's wise comments!

Thanks again.

[Banana Joe]

Go modular, possibly at the same ATO if you like them and keep your job, which would allow you to make connections as well. Connections are an effective way into the industry if you know the right people.

[sms8]

Personally I think if you do well and are a competent individual you'll be fine, so much nay saying out there nobody can truly predict the state of things in 2 years time, I think if your also prepared to fly for an asian airline there will be plenty of opportunities, the way I view it try hard, be flexible with your starting job and work your way up....thats my game plan!

[Sorath]

Originally Posted by sms8

Personally I think if you do well and are a competent individual you'll be fine, so much nay saying out there nobody can truly predict the state of things in 2 years time, I think if your also prepared to fly for an asian airline there will be plenty of opportunities, the way I view it try hard, be flexible with your starting job and work your way up....thats my game plan!

Thanks this is my philosophy as well... I'm going to bust my a** off studying... I hope it's appreciated by my future employers haha

[Evoluxione]

Originally Posted by Sorath

Thanks, guess preparing for the worst case scenario is always best. Just curious if there are or will be real opportunities in the future... everywhere I read there is someone ranting about the next economic depression and how that's going to affect air travel, which is probably true... but then again, a lot of senior captains will be retiring moving the food chain upwards...

Guess I'm just looking for some hope from someone's wise comments!

Thanks again.

That's the thing with this industry is that you can't know for sure about the future. One thing I personally would say that the industry will never "go down" but will only evolve(technology etc) but it will ofc follow the world market and events such as Corona virus so it is volatile.

I wouldn't stress that much about economic depressions and such as they are subjects that are always a thing that is coming. The more time you wait for such events to happen the more time you waste for yourself.

[Sorath]

Originally Posted by Evoluxione

That's the thing with this industry is that you can't know for sure about the future. One thing I personally would say that the industry will never "go down" but will only evolve(technology etc) but it will ofc follow the world market and events such as Corona virus so it is volatile.

I wouldn't stress that much about economic depressions and such as they are subjects that are always a thing that is coming. The more time you wait for such events to happen the more time you waste for yourself.

I think so too. I can't afford to waste any more time. I'll be 30 by August and I guess it's now or never...

[dl_88]

Originally Posted by Sorath

Hi everyone, I'm new to this great forum. Hoping to get some good advice from all of you.

I'm starting my Integrated ATPL in April, so I guess I'll be done by Q1 2022, and really I'm just trying not to think of it but, it's fairly fighting to think of the panorama of employment for rookies. My main worry is trying to land a job without any TR, and hoping to get some sort of bonded type of contract... I will definitely NOT go into pay-to-fly or similar type of entry into the industry, since I think it's totally unethical and just bombs the way for future generations of pilots... and worse, if you have the money and not the skill you can just waltz your way in, unbelievable.

I'm starting in European Flyers in Madrid, because it suits me best. Seems to be one of the best schools in Madrid and it's what I can afford since it's where I live and work as a Ground Test Aircraft Systems Engineer for Airbus.

So, the point is... can I expect to find in Europe or Asia any type of job offers for Cadets without TR and 200Hrs in two years time? Or will I have to grind my way to 500Hrs out of my pocket in a SEP, to get more PIC hours, or can I just forget about everything without a self sponsored TR for a A320/B737?

I guess aiming for Asia for a first job without experience is a little farfetched... (note I want to pay off my loan ASAP)

Thanks! Hoping to hear ANY kind of advice / experience / recommendation.

If you are asking this question now, means you have not done much research before committing into this industry. You should have researched your options first before stepping in.

Unless you have deep pockets and willing to be played by airlines doing P2F programs and labelled by other pilots for doing it, there isnt any airlines open to foreign fresh cpl pilots open in Asia.

I myself only took the risk once I was accepted into an airline program. There is no sense committing into a training program so expensive and no prospects at the end.

With this virus around? There are alot of pilots out of job, and they are type rated with heaps of experiences. China put MOST if not ALL of their expat pilots out on no pay leave until further notice. That would have flooded the market, dont forget last year thomas cook folded with their pilots looking for jobs. And not to mention other airlines which folded.

I would suggest to apply to any open cadet program and jump ship at the earliest possible moment if you get admission to an airline tagged program. Dont get suckered by the flight school saying you cant change program half way and it will look bad. Thats just BS. you are paying and working to the goal of getting a job.

a type rating with no hours and no job guarantee is just wasting your money. just get the certifications you need, only when you’re in the airline program that you pay for the rating or if you’re lucky the airline pays for you.

Dont bother coming to asia unless you have type and experience.

All the best and be financially prudent, the recession us upon us now and its a blood bath in the airlines

[Sorath]

Originally Posted by dl_88

If you are asking this question now, means you have not done much research before committing into this industry. You should have researched your options first before stepping in.

Unless you have deep pockets and willing to be played by airlines doing P2F programs and labelled by other pilots for doing it, there isnt any airlines open to foreign fresh cpl pilots open in Asia.

I myself only took the risk once I was accepted into an airline program. There is no sense committing into a training program so expensive and no prospects at the end.

With this virus around? There are alot of pilots out of job, and they are type rated with heaps of experiences. China put MOST if not ALL of their expat pilots out on no pay leave until further notice. That would have flooded the market, dont forget last year thomas cook folded with their pilots looking for jobs. And not to mention other airlines which folded.

I would suggest to apply to any open cadet program and jump ship at the earliest possible moment if you get admission to an airline tagged program. Dont get suckered by the flight school saying you cant change program half way and it will look bad. Thats just BS. you are paying and working to the goal of getting a job.

a type rating with no hours and no job guarantee is just wasting your money. just get the certifications you need, only when you’re in the airline program that you pay for the rating or if you’re lucky the airline pays for you.

Dont bother coming to asia unless you have type and experience.

All the best and be financially prudent, the recession us upon us now and its a blood bath in the airlines

Thanks for such a straight forward answer, I appreciate it. I have done my research and I currently know whats going on at the moment, but I don't want to come off as a know-it-all when I haven't even started... just prudence.
I imagined that landing an Asian Airline job straight out of Flight School seems improbable, and evidence is that I have not found any sort of offers, current or historical, referring to cadets.
My Integrated ATPL isn't related to any airline program, which I believe is fine, since I have no idea what the future will hold for me in the industry... (going into a mentored program for an airline with a specific TR in mind... I just find this limiting...even if there is no other way to enter to some of these airlines)

a type rating with no hours and no job guarantee is just wasting your money. just get the certifications you need, only when you’re in the airline program that you pay for the rating or if you’re lucky the airline pays for you.
All the best and be financially prudent, the recession us upon us now and its a blood bath in the airlines.

This is what I'm really looking for... this sort of reassurance.

Thanks! And all the best dl_88 !

[Evoluxione]

Personally I wouldn't enroll in a cadet program for a certain airline unless I would be 100% certain that the airline can provide a job after graduation. As you said they are quite limiting and with some airlines you aren't even guaranteed a job right after you graduate and you might end up waiting for years "in line" for the job.

That said I'm sure there is a lot differences between cadet programs, airlines and contracts between the student and airline so none of these things might not be true in your case if you choose that route.

Personally I am going to complete my pilot training with an integrated ATPL course as it doesn't make a difference for me if the aviation job market is down or up as I graduate in the future as I will just wait for my time then rather than now. I have a plan B financially and job wise if the market is down at that moment and I recommend you think of one as well just in case if s**t has hit the fan once you graduate

[Sorath]

Originally Posted by Evoluxione

Personally I wouldn't enroll in a cadet program for a certain airline unless I would be 100% certain that the airline can provide a job after graduation. As you said they are quite limiting and with some airlines you aren't even guaranteed a job right after you graduate and you might end up waiting for years "in line" for the job.

That said I'm sure there is a lot differences between cadet programs, airlines and contracts between the student and airline so none of these things might not be true in your case if you choose that route.

Personally I am going to complete my pilot training with an integrated ATPL course as it doesn't make a difference for me if the aviation job market is down or up as I graduate in the future as I will just wait for my time then rather than now. I have a plan B financially and job wise if the market is down at that moment and I recommend you think of one as well just in case if s**t has hit the fan once you graduate

Yes. Well said. Thank God I have my plan B. I'm an engineer for Airbus now... always time to go back.

[sms8]

Some interesting and sensible answers, I’ll say this, those that keep regularly saying a recession is looming, how are you arriving to this conclusion? granted if coronavirus was a huge pandemic it could tip things, but even before that I’m hearing recession recession recession we would need 6 months of negative growth for a recession , I closely follow world affairs and politics, and I actually do not see there being a recession as of yet, in-fact we are still coming out of the last one as a business owner the economy is tough, but I actually think we will be improving year on year...not only that so do the airlines, EZY and ryanair for example are looking to expand and source more pilots... air travel is predicted to hit 7.7 billion by 2035.... I think theres a lot of people believing the doom and gloom and in reality there’s little evidence for it...just sentiment.

[dl_88]

Originally Posted by Sorath

Thanks for such a straight forward answer, I appreciate it. I have done my research and I currently know whats going on at the moment, but I don't want to come off as a know-it-all when I haven't even started... just prudence.
I imagined that landing an Asian Airline job straight out of Flight School seems improbable, and evidence is that I have not found any sort of offers, current or historical, referring to cadets.
My Integrated ATPL isn't related to any airline program, which I believe is fine, since I have no idea what the future will hold for me in the industry... (going into a mentored program for an airline with a specific TR in mind... I just find this limiting...even if there is no other way to enter to some of these airlines)


This is what I'm really looking for... this sort of reassurance.

Thanks! And all the best dl_88 !

No worries, hope it helped.
I think its a cultural difference in viewing that having an airline backing is important.
Personally, I think it's a good insurance to have, better to have something than nothing. But knowing that, it can change in an instance.
In my own batch of cadets, most of us were going to the same airlines, with a couple not tagged. Ended up, 3 of my batch mates went to another airline after we were delayed for 6months. There were no consequences to that.
Those who did not have an airline, 1 found a job 1.5yrs after finishing training and the other to this day have not gotten an airline job. It's been 4.5years since I finished training and 4 since i joined my airline.
It comes down to what you think is comfortable risk to take, and how flexible can you be when reacting to the industry.
Thankfully you've a backup plan.

PS. Airbus is a such a great plane to fly. Wouldnt want to change it for anything else.