What is the story at OATS
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What is the story at OATS
HI All,
I am starting at OATS in July and I have heard some rumours. I am a self sponsored student and I have heard that OATS are biased towards there sponsored students. I was just wondering in what way this is happening and to what kind of degree ie flying hours, accomodation, or more!!
So basically what I want to know is what is the real story about this!
Thanks for now
HJ
I am starting at OATS in July and I have heard some rumours. I am a self sponsored student and I have heard that OATS are biased towards there sponsored students. I was just wondering in what way this is happening and to what kind of degree ie flying hours, accomodation, or more!!
So basically what I want to know is what is the real story about this!
Thanks for now
HJ
Guest
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Hi HJ,
I have many rumours that sometimes the school favours its flying hours and slots towards the airline sponsored students, but I have no personal experience..yet. If you go back a few days/weeks using the icon on the top right of the screen you'll be able to find more posts about OATS.
I still think it's one of the finest schools in the world though!
GOOD LUCK and see you there!
SB
I have many rumours that sometimes the school favours its flying hours and slots towards the airline sponsored students, but I have no personal experience..yet. If you go back a few days/weeks using the icon on the top right of the screen you'll be able to find more posts about OATS.
I still think it's one of the finest schools in the world though!
GOOD LUCK and see you there!
SB
Guest
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I am in a similar situation, due to start April at OATS and have heard exactly the same.
I was at Aviation House yesterday and was having a chat with an EasyJet F/O who described his experience of Oxford as being a BA sausage factory.
I also had a chat with my PPL Instructor, who said he walked out on the initial meeting at OATS due to the attitude he received as self sponsored. His friend went ahead and went to OATS and switched schools half way through, specifically because he was not getting access to the aircraft.
I phoned OATS and just asked them straight. Now I would not expect the truth, but they did say that they were well aware of these rumours and strongly deny them. Make up your own mind on that.
This said, I decided to check a couple more integrated courses and have been extremely impressed with one. If you can get ready in time for April, British Aerospace have spaces available on their course. They are no longer in Prestwick but are in Jerez Spain.
They are offering the course for the same price as Oxford but include food and accomodation which looks pretty good and has excellent on site facilities.
They offer a few less hours, but I have heard nothing bad. That said, if anyone has, then please do tell.
Check out their site at www.baesystems.es
Good luck, may see you there.
I was at Aviation House yesterday and was having a chat with an EasyJet F/O who described his experience of Oxford as being a BA sausage factory.
I also had a chat with my PPL Instructor, who said he walked out on the initial meeting at OATS due to the attitude he received as self sponsored. His friend went ahead and went to OATS and switched schools half way through, specifically because he was not getting access to the aircraft.
I phoned OATS and just asked them straight. Now I would not expect the truth, but they did say that they were well aware of these rumours and strongly deny them. Make up your own mind on that.
This said, I decided to check a couple more integrated courses and have been extremely impressed with one. If you can get ready in time for April, British Aerospace have spaces available on their course. They are no longer in Prestwick but are in Jerez Spain.
They are offering the course for the same price as Oxford but include food and accomodation which looks pretty good and has excellent on site facilities.
They offer a few less hours, but I have heard nothing bad. That said, if anyone has, then please do tell.
Check out their site at www.baesystems.es
Good luck, may see you there.
Guest
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HJ
First and foremost, I would not sign any agreement or contract with any organisation until you have it reviewed by a good solicitor. If you are about to commit to spending such a vast sum of money, you must ensure that there are 'get out clauses' in the event that wish to terminate the contract, for any reason whatsoever.
If you are unhappy with any part of your progress or training - tell them! Do not accept second best. Your money is as good as BA's and you deserve the same level of service.
Let us know how you get on and good luck with the course.
First and foremost, I would not sign any agreement or contract with any organisation until you have it reviewed by a good solicitor. If you are about to commit to spending such a vast sum of money, you must ensure that there are 'get out clauses' in the event that wish to terminate the contract, for any reason whatsoever.
If you are unhappy with any part of your progress or training - tell them! Do not accept second best. Your money is as good as BA's and you deserve the same level of service.
Let us know how you get on and good luck with the course.
Guest
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I was a BA cadet at Oxford and cannot deny that there did seem to be a certain bias....towards BM cadets who were late finishing thier course and their company was throwing a wobbly because they had already missed the start of their type rating course. The truth is that every single person I have ever met who went to Oxford regardless of where their money came from has finished the course late. How late you will finish will depend on your perserverance (or, as they like to phrase it, pushyness) and willingness to get up early in the morning.
I know several self sponsored students at OATS who finished ahead of airline cadets who started on the same day. As with all things in life, OATS is what you make it. If you chose Oxford, the trick is to be there at 6am to pick up the a/c and instructors when other people forgot to set their alarm clock or spent to long in the pub. Even if your booked slot is for 3pm be there at 6am. It worked for a lot of people and the others you see complaining are possibly the ones who stayed in bed too long.
PS everyone I know who finished the course within 1 month of the expected finish date is now working for an airline.
I know several self sponsored students at OATS who finished ahead of airline cadets who started on the same day. As with all things in life, OATS is what you make it. If you chose Oxford, the trick is to be there at 6am to pick up the a/c and instructors when other people forgot to set their alarm clock or spent to long in the pub. Even if your booked slot is for 3pm be there at 6am. It worked for a lot of people and the others you see complaining are possibly the ones who stayed in bed too long.
PS everyone I know who finished the course within 1 month of the expected finish date is now working for an airline.
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Pandora has put it in a nutshell really. You do have to be pushy to maintain the programme within the published time. Also, during the solo part of the flying course, you can make great progress very quickly if you use A/C in the evening and at the weekend. You do see them sitting idle at these times! Pre PT4 flying (the final S/Eng phase) can also be quick with a good bit of organisation, and showing early in the morning. The hardest part of the course to organise in this way is the flying up to PT1 where you are with an instructor for most sorties.
Unless things have changed considerabley, it is the Multi/IR phase of the course that is a complete pain, as far as getting hold of A/C goes...and by that time you will be gagging to get the hell out of the place!
Still, you will enjoy it.
Good luck.
Unless things have changed considerabley, it is the Multi/IR phase of the course that is a complete pain, as far as getting hold of A/C goes...and by that time you will be gagging to get the hell out of the place!
Still, you will enjoy it.
Good luck.
Guest
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As an OATS instructor I would have to admit that there was, under the previous owners of the company, a tendency to pander to their airline clients. I have seen it and I know personally how the Self Sponsored Student has been pushed off the program in favour of the airline cadet who is late due to the greed and callousness of an investor. One who was out to make a quick buck on the sale of the company at the highest price had taken on more work than they could cope with to push up the perceived value. Rumours abound as to how much certain departed/departing directors scored on the result of this sale to BBA and I will say no more on this.
Many of us were so disillusioned by the attitude of the previous management of the company to it's staff that many of our best colleagues have left or are in the process of leaving. Some departed under such unfavourable circumstances in a manner that when they took the company to task were able to benefit considerably in an industrial dispute settlement. So it is no wonder that the self-sponsored individual was also treated in an unfortunate manner as a means to an end.
Fortunately BBA has a corporate culture of customer service as is epitomised by it 'Signature' division which is probably the largest and most successful FBO organisation serving the GA and Corporate Aviation sectors, predominately in the US and now here in the UK.
The style of the new owners at OATS is becoming rapidly apparent and you will see a significant shift in culture and emphasis on every level. Whereas the airline client bring kudos, it is the self-sponsored who bring in the profit and the company, under it's new management, has recognised this and is rapidly moving to address this sector of the market in a way that benefits the value of the client base.
The new changes at OATS are certainly not popular amongst many of the old guard, but change we must and I know many of us will be invigorated by this departure from the greed and profit orientation that has pervaded the company for the past few years.
Mentoring and customer care will become the name of the game and I can assure everyone there is a very personable, but highly determined CEO, who will ensure this change takes place.
No I am not a managerial/marketing hack at OATS producing yet more spin, I'm just a line instructor, who was ready to depart along with everyone else, but can now see a significant change in the way business is going to be done and there are many of us who hope that we can change this culture in a way that we can become a leader in this field.
Let's see how the comments change in a year or two's time, I feel quietly confident we should be able to make the experience and treatment that people receive (and quite rightly deserve). Hopefully one that they will remember with the fondness and regard that they remember their sojourn at OATS as the best 'alma mater' in the business. The 'jury still out' as they say, but I hope those hopefuls out there who make the decision to come to OATS will be pleasantly surprised. I for one, as there are many of my like minded colleague, will try to make it so.
As an OATS instructor I would have to admit that there was, under the previous owners of the company, a tendency to pander to their airline clients. I have seen it and I know personally how the Self Sponsored Student has been pushed off the program in favour of the airline cadet who is late due to the greed and callousness of an investor. One who was out to make a quick buck on the sale of the company at the highest price had taken on more work than they could cope with to push up the perceived value. Rumours abound as to how much certain departed/departing directors scored on the result of this sale to BBA and I will say no more on this.
Many of us were so disillusioned by the attitude of the previous management of the company to it's staff that many of our best colleagues have left or are in the process of leaving. Some departed under such unfavourable circumstances in a manner that when they took the company to task were able to benefit considerably in an industrial dispute settlement. So it is no wonder that the self-sponsored individual was also treated in an unfortunate manner as a means to an end.
Fortunately BBA has a corporate culture of customer service as is epitomised by it 'Signature' division which is probably the largest and most successful FBO organisation serving the GA and Corporate Aviation sectors, predominately in the US and now here in the UK.
The style of the new owners at OATS is becoming rapidly apparent and you will see a significant shift in culture and emphasis on every level. Whereas the airline client bring kudos, it is the self-sponsored who bring in the profit and the company, under it's new management, has recognised this and is rapidly moving to address this sector of the market in a way that benefits the value of the client base.
The new changes at OATS are certainly not popular amongst many of the old guard, but change we must and I know many of us will be invigorated by this departure from the greed and profit orientation that has pervaded the company for the past few years.
Mentoring and customer care will become the name of the game and I can assure everyone there is a very personable, but highly determined CEO, who will ensure this change takes place.
No I am not a managerial/marketing hack at OATS producing yet more spin, I'm just a line instructor, who was ready to depart along with everyone else, but can now see a significant change in the way business is going to be done and there are many of us who hope that we can change this culture in a way that we can become a leader in this field.
Let's see how the comments change in a year or two's time, I feel quietly confident we should be able to make the experience and treatment that people receive (and quite rightly deserve). Hopefully one that they will remember with the fondness and regard that they remember their sojourn at OATS as the best 'alma mater' in the business. The 'jury still out' as they say, but I hope those hopefuls out there who make the decision to come to OATS will be pleasantly surprised. I for one, as there are many of my like minded colleague, will try to make it so.
Guest
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Hi everyone
I am starting at OATS in a few weeks. I am self-sponsored and others who have already been through OATS, have already told me that airline cadets do get preferential treatment.
It is good to hear from the 'inside' that staff are feeling that the situation and the atmosphere is better. To be honest I didn't know that Instructors were getting so bothered and annoyed about the situation. I didn't realise that there was so much agro and tension about the previous management and their ethos. At least things are not getting worse.
To be honest, at some point I would probably be surprised if I was not bumped off a slot in preference for an airline cadet be it Gulf Air, BA, BM or whoever.
However maybe this view that I have is one that should belong in the past????
Anyway, I look forward to meeting you all in due course
All the best!
MG
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It's a limited RAS as you approach my dark area.......
I am starting at OATS in a few weeks. I am self-sponsored and others who have already been through OATS, have already told me that airline cadets do get preferential treatment.
It is good to hear from the 'inside' that staff are feeling that the situation and the atmosphere is better. To be honest I didn't know that Instructors were getting so bothered and annoyed about the situation. I didn't realise that there was so much agro and tension about the previous management and their ethos. At least things are not getting worse.
To be honest, at some point I would probably be surprised if I was not bumped off a slot in preference for an airline cadet be it Gulf Air, BA, BM or whoever.
However maybe this view that I have is one that should belong in the past????
Anyway, I look forward to meeting you all in due course
All the best!
MG
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It's a limited RAS as you approach my dark area.......
Guest
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All i am going to say is that it is true in some respects but OATS is what you make of it. I didn't get the greatest amount of help and support that marketing said but i digged deep and worked hard for everything i have now and i am a better and stronger person for it.
The instructors are of the highest quality and do care about the students.
To all those OATS knockers if you concentrated your energies more positively then maybe things might not have been quite as bad as you thought?
To all those about to start go for it, you don't something for nothing without hard work especially an ATPL.
Good Luck old boy see you real soon in operations.
The instructors are of the highest quality and do care about the students.
To all those OATS knockers if you concentrated your energies more positively then maybe things might not have been quite as bad as you thought?
To all those about to start go for it, you don't something for nothing without hard work especially an ATPL.
Good Luck old boy see you real soon in operations.
Guest
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I left OATS 5 weeks ago after 15 months. I did not ever have any problem with loosing slots to the sponsored students. I know that it has gone on in the past but if you take a grip of your own training and push yourself it is not a problem!
One MAJOR thing that OATS has done for me is they have been instrumental in getting me a job! I left 5 weeks ago and have been offered a jet job, what more can I say.
One MAJOR thing that OATS has done for me is they have been instrumental in getting me a job! I left 5 weeks ago and have been offered a jet job, what more can I say.
Guest
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Thank You Everyone,
Just a word of thanks to all that have sent in a reply to my posting. It was great to get the view of so many, ie students and instructors alike. I hope the situation improves even more as my time to starting at OATS gets closer.
Thanks Again
HJ
Just a word of thanks to all that have sent in a reply to my posting. It was great to get the view of so many, ie students and instructors alike. I hope the situation improves even more as my time to starting at OATS gets closer.
Thanks Again
HJ
Guest
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Good point from Salmon! However, doesn’t Oxford send students to West Michigan anyway? If this is the case, why doesn't everyone (leaning towards Oxford) just apply directly to WMU and do the entire course over there?
I hear a lot on the forum about wannabes choosing between Oxford and Jerez, and other highly reputable schools (too many to mention), but Michigan hardly ever seems to come into it - unless connected to the Oxford ab-initio course. Why is that? Surely it must be cheaper and have better weather over that side of the big drink!
...Can anyone shed some light?
Regards,
ATCS
[This message has been edited by and the chap said (edited 08 March 2001).]
I hear a lot on the forum about wannabes choosing between Oxford and Jerez, and other highly reputable schools (too many to mention), but Michigan hardly ever seems to come into it - unless connected to the Oxford ab-initio course. Why is that? Surely it must be cheaper and have better weather over that side of the big drink!
...Can anyone shed some light?
Regards,
ATCS
[This message has been edited by and the chap said (edited 08 March 2001).]
Guest
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It is difficult to believe that porridge and I work at the same school, so different is his view from mine. Whilst I recognise the period he describes when many of the most highly qualified and experienced instructors voted with their feet against the incompetent management then in place, I do not recognise the present day nirvana that he describes.
The cold reality of today is that those few remaining instructors of any worth are steadily being marginalised and, in some cases, dismissed as BBA move to an even more profit driven culture. We, the real line instructors, have been told, in no uncertain terms, that the thrust of the company is now totally commercial - the student, it seems, is to become simply a source of revenue to be discarded once bled dry. Promotion within the school now depends not upon instructional ability but upon 'management' ability. It has to be said that BBA's perception of management ability seems to be at odds with that of most of the flight training industry in depending, almost exclusively, upon the brownness of ones nose (or any other part of the anatomy, I suppose).
Even the relatively new, and almost universally unrecognised, Head of Training is to be sidelined according to the latest management missive. The Flight Managers (CFI's) are, we understand, now going to by-pass the HT and report directly to the grandly named, and exclusively commercially orientated, General Manager Integrated Flight Training (who he - Ed??).
Couple this profit driven organisation with the fact that there is more guaranteed profit in airline sponsored training than there will ever be in self-sponsored training and then choose whether or not to believe the pseudo-management yuckspeak peddled by porridge.
Incidentally, whilst it is true that porridge is not (yet) "a managerial/marketing hack at OATS producing yet more spin", many of us are resigned to the unpalatable fact that it is only a matter of time...........Beware!!
The cold reality of today is that those few remaining instructors of any worth are steadily being marginalised and, in some cases, dismissed as BBA move to an even more profit driven culture. We, the real line instructors, have been told, in no uncertain terms, that the thrust of the company is now totally commercial - the student, it seems, is to become simply a source of revenue to be discarded once bled dry. Promotion within the school now depends not upon instructional ability but upon 'management' ability. It has to be said that BBA's perception of management ability seems to be at odds with that of most of the flight training industry in depending, almost exclusively, upon the brownness of ones nose (or any other part of the anatomy, I suppose).
Even the relatively new, and almost universally unrecognised, Head of Training is to be sidelined according to the latest management missive. The Flight Managers (CFI's) are, we understand, now going to by-pass the HT and report directly to the grandly named, and exclusively commercially orientated, General Manager Integrated Flight Training (who he - Ed??).
Couple this profit driven organisation with the fact that there is more guaranteed profit in airline sponsored training than there will ever be in self-sponsored training and then choose whether or not to believe the pseudo-management yuckspeak peddled by porridge.
Incidentally, whilst it is true that porridge is not (yet) "a managerial/marketing hack at OATS producing yet more spin", many of us are resigned to the unpalatable fact that it is only a matter of time...........Beware!!
Guest
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Yes, I have heard the rumours as well, that OATS airline 'space' cadets (!) do get preference over self sponsored students. Maybe it would be better to go to Gloucestershire Airport and use the aircraft there, with other self sponsored students and no airline cadets around. Besides, whats in a names? OATS seems to be fighting each other at the moment. The best school in the country for ATPL goundchool is ATA in Coventry. Why not do your PPL anywhere, go to someone like ATA or PPSC and then go to Gloucestershire for the CPL/IR Upgrade. Or, as has been said, if you have the money, go to Jerez. I have e-mailed a friend of mine who works at mrketing at OATS, including the conflicting replies from the instructors. I await the official reply!!!!
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Pigs CAN fly!
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Pigs CAN fly!
Guest
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I never got pushed about in favour of sponsored students.Ever.
Finished on time due to a bit of weekend flying and extra effort.
A bit lazy when I left,waiting for the promised interview with one company...which i am still waiting for. Except I won't be going.
Like Batty, also in a jet now. But it had nothing to do with OATS.
Make the best of your time there. OATS is different for everyone. Just enjoy it and shape your own destiny and timescales when you are there.
Finished on time due to a bit of weekend flying and extra effort.
A bit lazy when I left,waiting for the promised interview with one company...which i am still waiting for. Except I won't be going.
Like Batty, also in a jet now. But it had nothing to do with OATS.
Make the best of your time there. OATS is different for everyone. Just enjoy it and shape your own destiny and timescales when you are there.