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CAE Oxford Vs L3 (CTC)

Old 24th Aug 2019, 15:28
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CAE Oxford Vs L3 (CTC)

Hello Everyone,

Currently looking into both these schools. They seem to be among the best in the UK, was wondering if anyone would like to share some opinions and experiences with these schools. Were the helpful with getting you into an airline career post training???
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 07:35
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They are both cripplingly expensive!! Go modular.
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 07:51
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Originally Posted by Stanley Eevil View Post
They are both cripplingly expensive!! Go modular.
This also something in consideration but however as a new pilot with a frozen ATPL I fear that landing employment in this day and age will be tricky? Although this is not the original question of the thread, I’d love to be convinced otherwise, its a significant difference in costs!
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Old 25th Aug 2019, 08:02
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I suggest you modular training as well.

If you don't like something (instructors, management etc.) during training, you can go to another school in modular. This is benefit for students.

You can check out Bartolini based in Poland if you attach importance to school's background. Their graduates work for Ryanair, Easyjet, Wizzair etc. Their rates are cheaper than these schools.

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Old 26th Aug 2019, 05:21
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I also suggest modular, but if you're set on integrated then I would suggest CAE Oxford.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 05:25
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Among both? Difficult to say, both are the same, no added value to get a job and they are crazy expensive, if you really want to do integrated then choose a school that has a cadet program, meaning a safe job with an airlaner at your graduation. There are many other better and cheaper in Europe, just dont have the marketing those you mentioned have.

I also suggest modular, is cheaper, it can give you a good picture (if at certain point you realize flying is not fo you, then you can stop without committing to pay a high amount). And also, choose a school from where airliners tipically recruit.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 07:05
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Originally Posted by PilotRoger View Post
Among both? Difficult to say, both are the same, no added value to get a job and they are crazy expensive, if you really want to do integrated then choose a school that has a cadet program, meaning a safe job with an airlaner at your graduation. There are many other better and cheaper in Europe, just dont have the marketing those you mentioned have.

I also suggest modular, is cheaper, it can give you a good picture (if at certain point you realize flying is not fo you, then you can stop without committing to pay a high amount). And also, choose a school from where airliners tipically recruit.
Thank you, could you suggest a few good schools in the UK that airlines like ryan air and easy jet etc do recruit from regularly?
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 10:15
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Unless youre going on a tagged scheme then go modular, half the cost (can be a lot less than half if you can find a cheap way to build hours with glider towing/share in a permit aircraft etc). L3/oxford MIGHT get you a guaranteed interview but nothing is guaranteed job wise, there are lots of graduates from l3/oaa who are unemployed years after finishing training, just like some modular. I did everything on the cheap (but spent where required) and got offers from a 737 operator and a large regional, your choice.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 10:42
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Originally Posted by ollie135 View Post
Unless youre going on a tagged scheme then go modular, half the cost (can be a lot less than half if you can find a cheap way to build hours with glider towing/share in a permit aircraft etc). L3/oxford MIGHT get you a guaranteed interview but nothing is guaranteed job wise, there are lots of graduates from l3/oaa who are unemployed years after finishing training, just like some modular. I did everything on the cheap (but spent where required) and got offers from a 737 operator and a large regional, your choice.
Thanks for the info, Why do you think these people are unemployed? is it simply despite the course they just wasn't “that great” there attitude didn’t fit, skill levels not as good as some - what do you think the real determining factor is in actually turning this into a career? Can I ask how long have you been employed by your operator, assume you simply just applied for the job or did the modular school hook you up? Thanks in advance.
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Old 26th Aug 2019, 12:16
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Really does seem to be nobody recommending Intergrated courses in general, particularly with these more pricey schools..... looks like modular is the way unless theres an airline sponsored offering.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 09:14
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Generally speaking people may be unemployed because they either weren't selected for interviews or failed the assessments, there could be a number of reasons whether its a poor cv, having a bad day, lacking technical knowledge, or maybe just not clicking with the interviewers. I`ve had numerous failed applications and some successful ones, I initially signed for the 737 operator and got a type rating start date before they cancelled all type ratings for the rest of the year- nothing is guaranteed. I just applied for the jobs, network by speaking to people already at those operators and get their advice before interviews etc. Go modular but budget carefully as you can easily overspend.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 09:43
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So I guess the advice to anyone regardless of training scheme would be study hard, try and be well prepared.

Curious, assume a person went intergrated, and the school gains them an interview, will they still want a CV I assume they would?

Originally Posted by ollie135 View Post
Generally speaking people may be unemployed because they either weren't selected for interviews or failed the assessments, there could be a number of reasons whether its a poor cv, having a bad day, lacking technical knowledge, or maybe just not clicking with the interviewers. I`ve had numerous failed applications and some successful ones, I initially signed for the 737 operator and got a type rating start date before they cancelled all type ratings for the rest of the year- nothing is guaranteed. I just applied for the jobs, network by speaking to people already at those operators and get their advice before interviews etc. Go modular but budget carefully as you can easily overspend.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 09:51
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I'd just like to chime in here to make sure everyone is aware that being on a tagged scheme does NOT guarantee you a job either
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 10:10
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Just to clarify, are you talking about for example a easyjet or ryanair pathway? If you are I guess one obvious scenario would be the student underperforms?

I have also heard of people being tagged / approached during a white tail ATPL ... true? And what happens exactly then?

Originally Posted by JackPerry View Post
I'd just like to chime in here to make sure everyone is aware that being on a tagged scheme does NOT guarantee you a job either
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 10:22
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Originally Posted by Swale Smith View Post
Just to clarify, are you talking about for example a easyjet or ryanair pathway? If you are I guess one obvious scenario would be the student underperforms?

I have also heard of people being tagged / approached during a white tail ATPL ... true? And what happens exactly then?


Yeah for example the generation easyjet at L3/CAE. You are "mentored" - on the companies radar, if you show good performance then there's a high chance you will get a job, but it's not guaranteed.

I can't speak about L3, but at CAE I do believe interviews are often carried out to non-mentored candidates during the final, advanced stage flying phase of the course.

I guess the lesson here is try hard whatever route you're on! If you're pilot material they'll find you. Hopefully.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 11:07
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Originally Posted by JackPerry View Post
Yeah for example the generation easyjet at L3/CAE. You are "mentored" - on the companies radar, if you show good performance then there's a high chance you will get a job, but it's not guaranteed.

I can't speak about L3, but at CAE I do believe interviews are often carried out to non-mentored candidates during the final, advanced stage flying phase of the course.

I guess the lesson here is try hard whatever route you're on! If you're pilot material they'll find you. Hopefully.
To be fair it's logical enough, just because your there it doesn't mean that guarantees your employment how could they theres little incentive to try hard then... I guess that's another reason for the assessment and interviews...to try and verify your abilities, character, work ethics and so on, to ensure a good outcome.
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 18:31
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Swaley,

This thread from a year ago - The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2. drew attention to some L3 problems, apparently caused by shortage of instructors and aeroplanes, or by recruiting too many students, including about 100 RAF students for multi-engine training at Bournemouth, who seemed to be getting priority.

L3’s ‘cure’ seemed to include putting some paying students on hold for significant periods of time. Just what you need when you’ve committed all that loot.

It might be worth trying to find out if they’ve got over those issues by now.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

LFH

...
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Old 27th Aug 2019, 20:32
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I believe them issues you speak of have been sorted now, but that doesn't sound good on the school....something to consider there.



Originally Posted by Lordflasheart View Post
...
Swaley,

This thread from a year ago - The CTC Wings (Cadets) Thread - Part 2. drew attention to some L3 problems, apparently caused by shortage of instructors and aeroplanes, or by recruiting too many students, including about 100 RAF students for multi-engine training at Bournemouth, who seemed to be getting priority.

L3’s ‘cure’ seemed to include putting some paying students on hold for significant periods of time. Just what you need when you’ve committed all that loot.

It might be worth trying to find out if they’ve got over those issues by now.

Good luck, whatever you decide.

LFH

...
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Old 29th Aug 2019, 21:15
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These two "integrated" schools really are trading on the last dregs of their past reputations. They both have massive delays due to lack of instructors and aircraft. All the money goes on big corporate overheads, and marketing that only the really clueless suckers swallow these days. They are full of RAF/ Sleazyjet/ Middle East sponsored students. You as a whitetail are just a worthless source of easy cash to them.

I am am surprised there are even people still out there who still believe this outdated rubbish. It's 2019, not 2009.

it has been a buoyant market for some years now, and modular have the big plus point that they don't take the 2 years plus that CAE/L3 take to do a job that is done by modular students in half the time, after which they get a job while the integrated losers are moaning about it taking 9 months just to do an IR.

all this guff about guaranteed interview etc is a myth.

Go to Stapelford, Aeros, Diamond In Sweden, Bartolini or Smart in Poland, FTA in Shoreham, Atlantic in Cork for the CPL/MEP/IR. Finish off with a an APS MCC at Virtual Avaition in Cambridge or Simtech in Dublin.

And you can save yourself £40k.



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Old 29th Aug 2019, 22:24
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Hi,

And so your saying undoubtedly that someone who is applying for the first job at somewhere like easyjet or ryan air that has a frozen ATPL done in a modular fashion vs a CAE Oxford / L3 student is going to have an equal chance in gaining employment? I hear what your saying and really hope it's the case, it’s miles more convenient and obviously saves considerable money, it just goes against my logic, if you apply for a job outside the world of aviation and you had a well recognised school in your background lets say for arguments sake Eton College, Cambridge University, Oxford so on and so forth they usually will have preference, its not fair, its not correct and it means little in the real world as it doesn’t usually prove there competence but thats the way it is. All I’ve seemed to hear is the mentioned operators and similar much prefer students from these said intergrated schools a) because they follow there training protocols and adapt to the operator extremely well compared to others b) the fact they've passed at these schools suggests they are proven capable of high work loads (intergrated ground school intensity).

I would much prefer to save the money obviously but I greatly fear at the end of training being unable to turn this into a career or at best being sat on the shelf for 1/2 years... then all of a sudden that 40k saving is now x amount of years salary down the drain... and yes that obviously assumes there is a significant advantage in employability from said schools that enable a faster pathway to employment.

I’m not disagreeing with you , I really don't know , all arguments are convincing, please and I genuinely mean it convince not just me but countless others otherwise that modular will be the right way and a job is just as as easy to attain regardless of training pathways.

Look forward to the responses
Swale





Originally Posted by B61 View Post
These two "integrated" schools really are trading on the last dregs of their past reputations. They both have massive delays due to lack of instructors and aircraft. All the money goes on big corporate overheads, and marketing that only the really clueless suckers swallow these days. They are full of RAF/ Sleazyjet/ Middle East sponsored students. You as a whitetail are just a worthless source of easy cash to them.

I am am surprised there are even people still out there who still believe this outdated rubbish. It's 2019, not 2009.

it has been a buoyant market for some years now, and modular have the big plus point that they don't take the 2 years plus that CAE/L3 take to do a job that is done by modular students in half the time, after which they get a job while the integrated losers are moaning about it taking 9 months just to do an IR.

all this guff about guaranteed interview etc is a myth.

Go to Stapelford, Aeros, Diamond In Sweden, Bartolini or Smart in Poland, FTA in Shoreham, Atlantic in Cork for the CPL/MEP/IR. Finish off with a an APS MCC at Virtual Avaition in Cambridge or Simtech in Dublin.

And you can save yourself £40k.
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