Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.

Modular Pilot training advice (Finance)

Old 23rd Oct 2016, 14:53
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Swindon
Posts: 3
Modular Pilot training advice (Finance)

Hi, I am looking for some advice regarding how to fund a modular training course... Zero to Hero kind of thing. Its the only way I will be able to afford to get an ATPL due to house commitments (mortgage payments, monthly bills etc) So i can't be out of work for 18 months or so to do it integrated. I have found the all of the schools i will go to for the ppl, cpl, ground school etc. But have one sticking stone and properly just like most people do... Its finance. Anyone have any tips on how to finance the modular route?
joolsoliver1 is offline  
Old 24th Oct 2016, 05:37
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 229
All the normal ways really. Work, 2nd job, inheritance, family loan, bank loan, grant.
Then just cutting down on the unnecessary things nights out, new gadgets, expensive holidays, cars etc
keeflyer is online now  
Old 26th Oct 2016, 09:02
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 81
I have my job, my second job in the weekend, and now i'm lookin for a third occasional job. Unnecesary things must be delete!!! maybe in 4/5years i will complete my goals.
inabw is offline  
Old 27th Oct 2016, 08:38
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 146
Do your PPL in USA, (50% cheaper than europe), don't need to fly 12 hours per year to keep it current, just a review with an instructor every 2 years. With an PPL ICAO you can start working towards your ATPL ground exams, so during this time get a job and save money, perhaps you can do a Distance Learning with Oxford/Bristol, it will take around a year year and a half to have everything completed.

And from there you can decide if you want to do the rest in EASA territory or FAA and then convert (in my opinion and based on my own experience) this last option is cheaper and you finish with more hours, than full course in EASA.
spaflyer is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2016, 12:14
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by inabw View Post
I have my job, my second job in the weekend, and now i'm lookin for a third occasional job. Unnecesary things must be delete!!! maybe in 4/5years i will complete my goals.
You have been on the forums asking a lot of questions that have been answered previously. This kind of question has an obvious answer, earn money! I for instance drive HGV, 80 hours or so every 6 days, it puts 2400 every month in my bank which allows me to put away 1500 every month. I have a s**t car, no splashing out or big purchases, nothing for other people for Xmas/birthday and no holidays. In under two years I intend to have a CPL, IR ME completed. If this kind of dedication is not for you, then aviation is probably not achievable, at least not in a short time.

I honestly don't think I could keep this kind of schedule for 5 years. It would kill me.
jamesgrainge is offline  
Old 29th Oct 2016, 20:30
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 81
My dear friend, i have a house rent every month, i live alone. With my main jobs i'm saving 7-800 Euro/month and no still enough.
It's not a good life at the moment, i know ..But i have no other way to reach my goals.The real big problem will arrive with the type rating..It will be a big problem 4 the cash...Good Luck and happy landings.

Last edited by inabw; 5th Nov 2016 at 19:00.
inabw is offline  
Old 31st Oct 2016, 20:25
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 54
I think the fact of the matter is that it takes hard work, and a lot of blood, sweat and tears. I'd also say that you need a bit of luck, good timing, and some sacrifices.

Working hard is the name of the game, and I also worked as a lorry driver for some period of time to part-fund an integrated course at a top school, which I start in a few weeks. It was long hours, probably between 60 and 70 hours per week, meant being away from home all week, and took it's toll on family life and hobbies, but at the end of the week, I had around 550 in my bank account. In my opinion, a big thing to remember is to keep your eyes on the prize, and keep your goals in sight. Hard work feels much easier when you keep your eyes on your target.

A big help is cutting-out those obvious big spends, such as pointless gadgets, and unnecessary holidays. Everyone needs a phone, computer, possibly an iPad, especially if it comes in handy for training, but it's cutting-out those silly things that are important. If I wanted a drink, I'd have a few cans of beer at home, not spend 100 on a night-out with the lads, bearing in mind that 100 could probably feed me for three weeks, given my simple tastes. Think about whether you genuinely need something, and if you need something expensive, think about it's longevity, and re-sale value.

My decision also cost me my girlfriend of two years, after she became frustrated with me working such long hours, to fund a course that would mean me being away from her for 18 months. I admit we had our problems, but this pushed her over the edge.

The bottom line is unless you have parents, and or grandparents willing to help you out, the only option is to get out there and earn as much as you can, which sounds like what you're doing. Everyone has a different financial position, so each to their own, and take it at your own pace.
Rottweiler22 is offline  
Old 1st Nov 2016, 09:58
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 11
Rottweiler22 nice post, sounds like you and I share a common route. Sorry to hear it cost you your relationship, a sobering thought. The good thing about modular is my girlfriend, friends and family can be involved and see it as a journey,it takes the pressure off a little, even though I know it pisses her off that we can't go on holiday and generally have an active life for a couple of years.

Can I ask you two questions?
1) Was it worth it? Did you do it, have you got the licences?
2)Are you employed flying in the area you wanted to be?

Also personal recommendation to another posters response, do the PPL in your native country, somewhere you are comfortable, with people who you feel comfortable communicating with, and the terminology is what you are used to. Not only that you will learn in questionable weather which can only make you a better pilot
jamesgrainge is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2016, 09:36
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SW
Posts: 158
James,

How much do you anticipate it costing in total? If you have zero experience at the moment I'd plan to do your ppl, atpl theory, night rating and hour building whilst working. This means that you can do it at a reasonable pace without too large an effect on your life. The alternative is working all hours then stopping completely to work all hours on flying - neither being much fun.
Then look at a loan for the CPL ME IR course - assuming you don't go instructing first which again may be a good option for you.
There are government loans of up to 10k which may help.
https://www.gov.uk/career-development-loans/overview
I'm assuming that you rent and can't remortgage and don't know anyone who would lend you the money or guarantee a loan for you?
switch_on_lofty is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2016, 13:58
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 146
As other people mentioned:

I'm 33 years old with an IT background, when I started with my aviation career in 2011, didn't have the money, or any idea how to start, I've did research on internet and felt on a trap as a fool of a school who offers PPL in USA for as low of 6000$, (which didn't mentioned anything was included)... so ended needing some money to finish it (1500$ short) so parents borrow me this money and I returned it on the next 3 months.

Decided that aviation was what I wanted to do, so moved away from Spain, and moved to UK where salaries where much higher than rest of Europe, start working in Milton Keynes as IT Linux Admin, with a salary of 2500 per month (plus on call and overtime), ended working 60 hours per week to get some more. We lived 2 person with this salary as my girlfriend wasn't working and was attending University at this time

So saved enough to do some time building, and at same time I was working on my company did my ATPL ground school in Oxford distance learning (as I couldn't afford to not work for 18 months) to do it residential. Used my 4 weeks of holidays to attend brush up courses and ATPL exams, so first year = 0 holidays and 0 Christmas presents (well we had a White Toblerone Chocolate, a Fuel Strainer, and Bottle of Bacardi Rum as present) yei..!

Second year 2012, saved around 12.000 so used my 25 days of Holidays to do my IFR FAA course and finish my ATPL exams, as I completed it with 40 hours sharp and first attempt on IFR, I rewarded my self with a decent headset (Light Speed) as delayed Christmas Present, and new laptop for girlfriend for University.

In 2013, saved all year and I was able to save slightly more money, so we did a weekend trip back to Spain to visit family (yes after 2 yeas, we had 0 holidays and our "Holidays" where focused on aviation). So did my CPL SE training, and although I was planing to do also my ME, run out of time, so left without any of them, but with training almost completed.

2014: Saved enough money to finish what I left half way, so came back to US and finished CPL and ME.

2015: Company get merged and some of us where made redundant, so moved to Ireland where I get another job offer on the same range of salary, and at same time involved on aviation industry. (Not much saving this year due this facts relocations, etc..) however did a travel to USA with friends and family and build another 50 hours.

2016: Saved money to pay for FAA to EASA conversion, around 10k, and 4.5K for MCC/JOC, finshed everything 2 months ago (after 5 years of hard work), and as reward did my Sea Plane rating in Florida with some real proper holidays with girlfriend, who have been with my all this time, and yes we had arguments about money, enjoying life, and it we will see the fruits one day or not.

And since I finished, I still saving money in case I need for a Type Rating, asked parents to also put all Christmas/Birthday presents in a piggy bank in case I need them for same purpose.

So it can be done, but it requires a lot of discipline and hard work. Meanwhile my main job did extra works to get extra income: Volleyball Referee, Diving Instructor, Webdesigner, Airbnb, etc...
spaflyer is offline  
Old 2nd Nov 2016, 14:52
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 229
Congrats Spaflyer, I admire your determination
keeflyer is online now  
Old 3rd Nov 2016, 06:21
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by switch_on_lofty View Post
James,

How much do you anticipate it costing in total? If you have zero experience at the moment I'd plan to do your ppl, atpl theory, night rating and hour building whilst working. This means that you can do it at a reasonable pace without too large an effect on your life. The alternative is working all hours then stopping completely to work all hours on flying - neither being much fun.
Then look at a loan for the CPL ME IR course - assuming you don't go instructing first which again may be a good option for you.
There are government loans of up to 10k which may help.
https://www.gov.uk/career-development-loans/overview
I'm assuming that you rent and can't remortgage and don't know anyone who would lend you the money or guarantee a loan for you?
I wasn't the OP lofty, I'm about halfway through PPL as we speak. That is exactly what I'm doing, I anticipate it being two years to the end of CPL, IR. If I wasn't able to fly at the same time this lifestyle would not be worth it. Doing my maths over I think somewhere around 30k up to CPL level. I already have access to somewhere around 14k should I need it, but I am staying away from any branded school and relying on myself till I've finished CPL. Thus if I have to fund anything afterwards I have a bulk sum to throw in. We have a very very favourable rent situation so don't have to worry too much about bills,no kids etc.

In terms of borrowing money, I could ask my parents. However not being an absolute sponge/waste of space I refuse to be gifted something, I will put the hours in and then the rewards will be so much sweeter in the future.
jamesgrainge is offline  
Old 3rd Nov 2016, 16:16
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Age: 41
Posts: 929
I'm impressed that you're prepared to drive an HGV for 80 hours a week - especially when the EU limit is 56 hours a week. Are you aiming for a job at FlyDubai?
rudestuff is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2016, 07:29
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 11
Actually if you really want to get technical it's 45 every two weeks. But obviously I dont drive that long, much of my week is spent sat waiting and browsing PPRuNe
jamesgrainge is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2016, 09:48
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 54
The haulage industry is renowned for long hours. By Wednesday evening I could have worked 40 hours already, and the planning office still tried to squeeze even more work out of you. A poor company, who I worked for, would try and make you work the absolute maximum time you could do, every week, and simply claim "it's just the way the job is". As a tramper (going away Monday morning, and not getting back to base until Friday evening, spending every night in the truck), my duty time tended to be around 65 hours per week, every week.

Anyhow James, was it worth it? I don't know yet, I used lorry driving to part-fund an integrated course, but I start in a few weeks. I'll be able to tell you in a couple of years time! The same for the second question, I'll have to see you on the other side for that one!

In general, there's no easy option for funding, unless you or your family are loaded, and or willing to help you out. Everyone's situation is different, some requiring much harder work than others to get to where they want to be. Having spoken to a few integrated trainees, some of them went for a 50/50 loan to cash method, getting half of the money from savings, parents, working, etc, and the other half from the pilot training loans. The modular trainees I've spoken to tended to do what's being done my most here, grafting and doing bits at a time. There was one lad who was doing a full-time ab-initio residential modular course back-to-back at Stapleford, but his parents were paying for that.
Rottweiler22 is offline  
Old 4th Nov 2016, 19:29
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: England
Posts: 11
In that case, best of luck my friend, we will be qualified at roughly the same time, have you done your ppl at this time? I'm assuming you have some flight experience? Also which company was it that planned your full time, I would happily do 90 hours each week over my 6 days and get the cash rolling in, 80 just doesn't seem enough 😂
jamesgrainge is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2016, 16:15
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 54
Good luck to you to mate! Yes, I should be qualified in around 18 months, give or take. I'd like to do the instructor course too, that way I can keep my hand-in whilst I look for a job.

Yes, I used to do a fair bit of powered hobby flying, but as you can imagine, I haven't been in the air as much as I'd like to have been as of late. I haven't felt like spending a full day standing around the gliding club either, I just got anxious and wished I were working. I love it to bits when I've got plenty of time and a relaxed schedule, but gliding is hard work if you have limited time, and actually want to be in the air.

I worked for Stobarts, and then Turners, the latter of which ran me ragged. In hindsight, I wish I'd have stayed with Stobarts, but I couldn't get a Monday to Friday shift there, so I moved to Turners. I wished I'd have grinned and beared it, as I met some good lads at Stobarts. Turners were bad to work for, they squeezed every last minute out of you, even if it defied any logic or morality. As far as they were concerned, they owned you, and your duty in life was to serve them. Not so bad if all you care about is the money, but I was sort of trying to balance time with my family too, so I wasn't really happy.
Rottweiler22 is offline  
Old 5th Nov 2016, 18:46
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by spaflyer View Post
As other people mentioned:

I'm 33 years old with an IT background, when I started with my aviation career in 2011, didn't have the money, or any idea how to start, I've did research on internet and felt on a trap as a fool of a school who offers PPL in USA for as low of 6000$, (which didn't mentioned anything was included)... so ended needing some money to finish it (1500$ short) so parents borrow me this money and I returned it on the next 3 months.

Decided that aviation was what I wanted to do, so moved away from Spain, and moved to UK where salaries where much higher than rest of Europe, start working in Milton Keynes as IT Linux Admin, with a salary of 2500 per month (plus on call and overtime), ended working 60 hours per week to get some more. We lived 2 person with this salary as my girlfriend wasn't working and was attending University at this time

So saved enough to do some time building, and at same time I was working on my company did my ATPL ground school in Oxford distance learning (as I couldn't afford to not work for 18 months) to do it residential. Used my 4 weeks of holidays to attend brush up courses and ATPL exams, so first year = 0 holidays and 0 Christmas presents (well we had a White Toblerone Chocolate, a Fuel Strainer, and Bottle of Bacardi Rum as present) yei..!

Second year 2012, saved around 12.000 so used my 25 days of Holidays to do my IFR FAA course and finish my ATPL exams, as I completed it with 40 hours sharp and first attempt on IFR, I rewarded my self with a decent headset (Light Speed) as delayed Christmas Present, and new laptop for girlfriend for University.

In 2013, saved all year and I was able to save slightly more money, so we did a weekend trip back to Spain to visit family (yes after 2 yeas, we had 0 holidays and our "Holidays" where focused on aviation). So did my CPL SE training, and although I was planing to do also my ME, run out of time, so left without any of them, but with training almost completed.

2014: Saved enough money to finish what I left half way, so came back to US and finished CPL and ME.

2015: Company get merged and some of us where made redundant, so moved to Ireland where I get another job offer on the same range of salary, and at same time involved on aviation industry. (Not much saving this year due this facts relocations, etc..) however did a travel to USA with friends and family and build another 50 hours.

2016: Saved money to pay for FAA to EASA conversion, around 10k, and 4.5K for MCC/JOC, finshed everything 2 months ago (after 5 years of hard work), and as reward did my Sea Plane rating in Florida with some real proper holidays with girlfriend, who have been with my all this time, and yes we had arguments about money, enjoying life, and it we will see the fruits one day or not.

And since I finished, I still saving money in case I need for a Type Rating, asked parents to also put all Christmas/Birthday presents in a piggy bank in case I need them for same purpose.

So it can be done, but it requires a lot of discipline and hard work. Meanwhile my main job did extra works to get extra income: Volleyball Referee, Diving Instructor, Webdesigner, Airbnb, etc...
You are really strong and i think you will reach your goals, i'm sure about this. The determination and the sacrifice are the key. Thank you mate to shared with us your story.
inabw is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2017, 11:37
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Brussels area
Posts: 4
I am really inspired by this post, thanks!
Can you tell me which schools you attended in the US, or maybe we can get in touch?
PilotNLDK is offline  
Old 31st Mar 2017, 13:43
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 146
Thanks guys! Ive forgoten about this post!!! So an updated for those who wrote before, Im currently in Botswana, in my first job as a pilot, flying an GA8, and with some expectations to get in the C208 within a year or 2. So really really happy!!

About schools in US:
PPL (National Air College) San Diego CA, It was recommended to me, by my brother in law, when he worked as an instructor in USA some years ago, however it was quite crappy when I attended ... so not any more recomended.

Time Building San Diego CA: As I didnt want to continue with that school, moved to another to do some hours, so ended on Learn to Fly San Diego, the owner is really nice chap, and although not as cheaper than NAC, the personal aspect was way much better.

IFR/CPL/ME Florida Flyers ST Agustine FL: As I didn`t have the same flexibility than when I did PPL, Ive search for something closer to Europe, and with cheaper flights, so somthing on East Coast, after reading some reviews on Internet, I gave them a chance for IFR, and I felt in Love with both staff, fleet, and location, so I went year after year back to do CPL and ME.

Sea Plane Tavares FL: As mentioned on the post, I spoiled my self with Sea Plane rating, this time done in Tavares with Jones Brother Seaplane Adventures.

Last edited by spaflyer; 31st Mar 2017 at 14:02.
spaflyer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.