what airlines want?
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Thankyou LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK.
Piperpilot;- In your post dated 26th June you say you are 17 years old. Now you say you are older than me. Which is it ? Or are you just a wind-up merchant ? If you are, you're not helping anyone here. As for "life experience" (or "live experience" as you call it), LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK has just given you some. FACT.
Piperpilot;- In your post dated 26th June you say you are 17 years old. Now you say you are older than me. Which is it ? Or are you just a wind-up merchant ? If you are, you're not helping anyone here. As for "life experience" (or "live experience" as you call it), LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK has just given you some. FACT.
Last edited by Bucking Bronco; 29th Jun 2002 at 14:07.
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Piperpilot;-
I'm glad we've established your age. You are incorrect if you still maintain that graduates form a lesser proportion of BA's Cadet entry intake in recent years. Read LIMA OR ALPHA JUNKS post. If you have information to disprove this lets hear it as you threatened you have.
Take it from people in the know. No disrepect to your age but you are showing your lack of years here.
I'm glad we've established your age. You are incorrect if you still maintain that graduates form a lesser proportion of BA's Cadet entry intake in recent years. Read LIMA OR ALPHA JUNKS post. If you have information to disprove this lets hear it as you threatened you have.
Take it from people in the know. No disrepect to your age but you are showing your lack of years here.
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"for all you know, I could have some statistics right here which could totally contradict your fact?"
If you've got em, lets hear them !
If you've got em, lets hear them !
Last edited by Bucking Bronco; 29th Jun 2002 at 15:32.
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hello,
I have read your comments.
My questions is what guys do when you have no job and debts?
what guys do since the 9/11? are you staying at home waiting airlines call you?because that will not happen!
with no degree, what do you know to do outside of fying?
I have read your comments.
My questions is what guys do when you have no job and debts?
what guys do since the 9/11? are you staying at home waiting airlines call you?because that will not happen!
with no degree, what do you know to do outside of fying?
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This post is just becoming an argument between those who went to uni and those who did not. There are good and bad points for each side. Uni does help but it is not the only way. The main thing about uni is learn the importance of networking and how to handle large amounts of work within tight deadlines and you learn to socialise... but you can learn these without going to univerity so why are all you guys arguing.
I dont know much about airlines but I assume they want responsible people to pilot their aircraft and as long as you can prove that you should be able to get through. However I believe nowadays they are looking for some sort of degree.
Another option is to leave school and work in undustry for 3 years and than go to uni and get a masters degree in your relevant industry field. That will save you getting into debt and most unis will enroll you on a masters if you have 2- 3 years relevant work experience.
So if you worked in the city you could sit a masters in business and finance. You need to average only 50% in a Masters degrees to graduate and with all the money you saved you should be able to afford the fees!!
Oh and to the person who claims they were a market maker in the city... Have you seen the recruitment process for the city?? If you have not got a degree you cant get in ... period! And that is just for graduate roles!!
Maybe in your day you could just stroll in to jobs in the city but these days things have changed. Try getting a city job without a degree now?? Your better have some serious contacts!!!
I dont know much about airlines but I assume they want responsible people to pilot their aircraft and as long as you can prove that you should be able to get through. However I believe nowadays they are looking for some sort of degree.
Another option is to leave school and work in undustry for 3 years and than go to uni and get a masters degree in your relevant industry field. That will save you getting into debt and most unis will enroll you on a masters if you have 2- 3 years relevant work experience.
So if you worked in the city you could sit a masters in business and finance. You need to average only 50% in a Masters degrees to graduate and with all the money you saved you should be able to afford the fees!!
Oh and to the person who claims they were a market maker in the city... Have you seen the recruitment process for the city?? If you have not got a degree you cant get in ... period! And that is just for graduate roles!!
Maybe in your day you could just stroll in to jobs in the city but these days things have changed. Try getting a city job without a degree now?? Your better have some serious contacts!!!
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Darrylpeters;-
You make some good and valid points.
I'm afraid a couple of guys on this thread didn't like what they heard or didn't hear what they liked and decided to abuse those with qualifications or those who advocated getting them. Personally, I couldn't give a toss if if anyone takes my advice or not. At the end of the day its upto the individual to decide what is best for them and whether or not they go to college.
All I will say is that if I had my life again, at the age of 18 or so I would go and get a qualification and have some fun. You would still have over 35 years in which to fly. Yes, college gets you into debt but if it wasn't worth doing people would stop going.
There are plenty of successful people out there without qualifications but there are more unsuccessful people.
You make some good and valid points.
I'm afraid a couple of guys on this thread didn't like what they heard or didn't hear what they liked and decided to abuse those with qualifications or those who advocated getting them. Personally, I couldn't give a toss if if anyone takes my advice or not. At the end of the day its upto the individual to decide what is best for them and whether or not they go to college.
All I will say is that if I had my life again, at the age of 18 or so I would go and get a qualification and have some fun. You would still have over 35 years in which to fly. Yes, college gets you into debt but if it wasn't worth doing people would stop going.
There are plenty of successful people out there without qualifications but there are more unsuccessful people.
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You are still missing my point Bronco.
I would not advise people to not have qualifications, but they are not the be all and end all.
By virtue of the fact that I and others have got good jobs with few qualifications means that it must be the case at least some of the time.
As you know and I know, there are times when having a licence will guarantee you an interview and a job (not often mind).
And there are times (like now) when 1000's of hours will guarantee you nothing.
It is a variable feast.
And on the subject of spelling Bronco, just after you tore apart some poor soul for his/her spelling, you then went on to spell my name wrong in your next critiscism of me!
Just a small point.
People in glass houses......etc etc.
I would not advise people to not have qualifications, but they are not the be all and end all.
By virtue of the fact that I and others have got good jobs with few qualifications means that it must be the case at least some of the time.
As you know and I know, there are times when having a licence will guarantee you an interview and a job (not often mind).
And there are times (like now) when 1000's of hours will guarantee you nothing.
It is a variable feast.
And on the subject of spelling Bronco, just after you tore apart some poor soul for his/her spelling, you then went on to spell my name wrong in your next critiscism of me!
Just a small point.
People in glass houses......etc etc.
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Tailscrape;-
With respect, it is you who is missing your own point !
"Exams count for naff-all." Your words not mine. If you are now retracting that then fair enough. If you can tell me where I have said exams are the be-all and end-all, then please direct to that relevant post. It may also pay you to read the last sentence in my last post !
You seem to be clutching at straws !
By the way, do mean criticism ? (there endeth todays spelling lesson - only joking !)
With respect, it is you who is missing your own point !
"Exams count for naff-all." Your words not mine. If you are now retracting that then fair enough. If you can tell me where I have said exams are the be-all and end-all, then please direct to that relevant post. It may also pay you to read the last sentence in my last post !
You seem to be clutching at straws !
By the way, do mean criticism ? (there endeth todays spelling lesson - only joking !)
Last edited by Bucking Bronco; 1st Jul 2002 at 12:55.
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Bronco,
I retract nothing, because at the end of the day this is all our own subjective opinion.
You seem to want to be correct on everything. If you need that reassurance in life, well great for you. I for one would not be happy going through life believing all I had to back me up was a few bits of paper (which have become easier to gain as time goes by), because at the end of the day just about everyone (bar me) has got all those said bits of paper!
So, what happens then?
Personality probably.
Something which is ingrained at an early age, and cannot be changed.
As far as my previous post went, i will modify it thus for you:
" Exams count for naff all"........ changes to ........." Exams count for naff all in MY CASE, because I have had a successful career in the City of London, and am now an airline pilot."
Perhaps that will assuage your anger over my posts.
If you need to feel a winner bronco, consider it done. Because I for one cannot be bothered in trading pointless banter with you on this subject.......
Do you work for an exam board part time?!?
I retract nothing, because at the end of the day this is all our own subjective opinion.
You seem to want to be correct on everything. If you need that reassurance in life, well great for you. I for one would not be happy going through life believing all I had to back me up was a few bits of paper (which have become easier to gain as time goes by), because at the end of the day just about everyone (bar me) has got all those said bits of paper!
So, what happens then?
Personality probably.
Something which is ingrained at an early age, and cannot be changed.
As far as my previous post went, i will modify it thus for you:
" Exams count for naff all"........ changes to ........." Exams count for naff all in MY CASE, because I have had a successful career in the City of London, and am now an airline pilot."
Perhaps that will assuage your anger over my posts.
If you need to feel a winner bronco, consider it done. Because I for one cannot be bothered in trading pointless banter with you on this subject.......
Do you work for an exam board part time?!?
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Been following this post from the Beginning and has been very relevant to help me make a decision.
What worried me was
the possibility of two years down the line having the huge debt with no job. Which from what other have said is a Possibility. Also I would be 22 with my Frozen ATPL and very little varied experience.
I am in the position to pay for around half of the costs with the other from loans and help from Parents.
More than anything I want to start the course this year but have now made the decision to go back to Uni for the 3 remaining years of my course.
In 3 years time I will still be in the position to complete the course. But will have tried my hardest to get into any sponsorships assuming some come back.
I would also like to keep up flying and Build hours with the Uni Air Squadron. Spoken to many people who agree that u get good Training and Experience from this.
One guy I have spoken to says that he is certain that he got his Sponsorship from the training he received at the UAS.
I personally think that it is wrong that other Professions use a degree as a benchmark sometimes the only Benchmark.
I can't speak for Aviation in whether this is true or not. But I do know it is true in other Industries. I just want to make sure that I have some fall back if;
1. The Job never happens
2. I find out I am not airline material
3. I fail the medical some time in my life
I am not 100% Pro-Uni by any means have loads of complaints about the course I am on. Some of the teaching is marginal at best.
Just my opinion formed from advice I have received from others.
Thanks for the help.
JonathanG
What worried me was
the possibility of two years down the line having the huge debt with no job. Which from what other have said is a Possibility. Also I would be 22 with my Frozen ATPL and very little varied experience.I am in the position to pay for around half of the costs with the other from loans and help from Parents.
More than anything I want to start the course this year but have now made the decision to go back to Uni for the 3 remaining years of my course.
In 3 years time I will still be in the position to complete the course. But will have tried my hardest to get into any sponsorships assuming some come back.
I would also like to keep up flying and Build hours with the Uni Air Squadron. Spoken to many people who agree that u get good Training and Experience from this.
One guy I have spoken to says that he is certain that he got his Sponsorship from the training he received at the UAS.
I personally think that it is wrong that other Professions use a degree as a benchmark sometimes the only Benchmark.
I can't speak for Aviation in whether this is true or not. But I do know it is true in other Industries. I just want to make sure that I have some fall back if;
1. The Job never happens
2. I find out I am not airline material
3. I fail the medical some time in my life
I am not 100% Pro-Uni by any means have loads of complaints about the course I am on. Some of the teaching is marginal at best.
Just my opinion formed from advice I have received from others.
Thanks for the help.
JonathanG
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Firstly I'm not a pilot yet and am still a wannabe, so I probably don't know as much as some of you about the airline industry. I do have family members who are in positions in other fields which involve interviewing prospective employees. From what I've been told one of the first things they do to cut down the numbers of applications is to sift through on the basis of qualifications. They said that this is not a hard and fast rule (ie. best qualifications does not guarantee that candidate gets the job), but a minumum is applied. So in my view in terms of a fallback position in case of losing a flying job, having as many qualifications as possible is a bonus. I do have a degree, but I do not expect that it will be a deciding factor in me getting an airline career. I recently went to a pilot aptitude test and they only asked me about my A-levels! I think that the training itself is the equivalent of getting a degree. My degree was in computer science, so that qualifies me for a job in computer science not as a pilot obviously. To be accepted on this course I did not need a degree but a certain amount/level of A-levels and GCSEs, so why should it be any different for acceptance as a pilot?
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It is very easy to spot, just from conversation alone, whether someone has a degree or not. It is the whole experience of University which counts and will always give you an edge in any aspect of life. A degree in any subject, be it from Oxbridge or right down the educational tree to a former polytechnic, tells you lots about a person - good under pressure (exams), good planner (made it through long term course), good financial skills (survived on a shoestring).... the list goes on
It is known and recognised that most people socialise, marry etc... into their own educational group. I would advise anyone without a degree, who feels uncomfortable about it to join an Open University course and get going. It will allow you entry into any conversation at the same level as your graduate colleagues and will in fact impress them
On the aviation this issue is something which should be covered in CRM or MCC courses because it affects that Captain - Co-Pilot co-operation thing. The US has tackled this by insisting on a 4-year degree for everyone and has dealt with this issue. It is a burning issue which is reflected in the length of this topic
It is known and recognised that most people socialise, marry etc... into their own educational group. I would advise anyone without a degree, who feels uncomfortable about it to join an Open University course and get going. It will allow you entry into any conversation at the same level as your graduate colleagues and will in fact impress them
On the aviation this issue is something which should be covered in CRM or MCC courses because it affects that Captain - Co-Pilot co-operation thing. The US has tackled this by insisting on a 4-year degree for everyone and has dealt with this issue. It is a burning issue which is reflected in the length of this topic
From a UK perspective the above post strikes me a breathtakingly naive.
Perhaps a troll looking for a flame war?
WWW
Perhaps a troll looking for a flame war?
WWW
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It is very easy to spot, just from conversation alone, whether someone has a degree or not. It is the whole experience of University which counts and will always give you an edge in any aspect of life
What a crock, obviously spoken by someone with very little knowledge of the world around them. My experience in life comes from spending 15 years in the RAF, in the real world. It comes from being in situations that change your life, for example the Gulf War and Bosnia. It comes from putting everything on the line when you have a family and children in order to persue a goal in life, that of becoming an airline pilot.
University may give you a qualification but will NOT give you an edge in every aspect of life.
This is the kind of upper class snobbery that pervades British life and attempts to push many jobs out of the reach of poorer parts of society. Fortunatly at the moment you don't need a degree to become a pilot, indeed the integrated ATPL course is seen to be on a par with a degree anyway.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread you do not need a degree to become an airline pilot and I do not think it helps you in gaining that first job. That first job requires first time passes in IRT and Cpl skills tests (not all the time but generaly at the moment it helps), but more importantly it takes lots of luck and dedication.
Upper class snobbery about your position in life and that you are a better person because you have a degree will not ensure you a job, in fact it more likely to prevent you from getting one.
What a crock, obviously spoken by someone with very little knowledge of the world around them. My experience in life comes from spending 15 years in the RAF, in the real world. It comes from being in situations that change your life, for example the Gulf War and Bosnia. It comes from putting everything on the line when you have a family and children in order to persue a goal in life, that of becoming an airline pilot.
University may give you a qualification but will NOT give you an edge in every aspect of life.
This is the kind of upper class snobbery that pervades British life and attempts to push many jobs out of the reach of poorer parts of society. Fortunatly at the moment you don't need a degree to become a pilot, indeed the integrated ATPL course is seen to be on a par with a degree anyway.
As I stated at the beginning of this thread you do not need a degree to become an airline pilot and I do not think it helps you in gaining that first job. That first job requires first time passes in IRT and Cpl skills tests (not all the time but generaly at the moment it helps), but more importantly it takes lots of luck and dedication.
Upper class snobbery about your position in life and that you are a better person because you have a degree will not ensure you a job, in fact it more likely to prevent you from getting one.
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"It will allow you entry into any conversation at the same level as your graduate colleagues and will in fact impress them"
Really ?? You knob.
Sorry I don't normally resort to crass abuse but please.....
Now don't tell me, I musn't have a good eduation because I've resorted to calling him a knob, right ??? Anyway, flame away knobby, you'll still be a knob.......(or a wind up knob).
(Sorry mods).
Really ?? You knob.
Sorry I don't normally resort to crass abuse but please.....
Now don't tell me, I musn't have a good eduation because I've resorted to calling him a knob, right ??? Anyway, flame away knobby, you'll still be a knob.......(or a wind up knob).
(Sorry mods).
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I'd vote wind-up, if it were not for the fact that I've met t0ssers like this. On the hand, he has spelt Smith with a 'y'. Surely no self respecting John Smith aged 17 would do that? 
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anyone can get a job in an airline, but i know very few guys without a degree who found a flying job.Most of these guys are in debt and in deep ####.
I always hear that study or get a degree is BS, I wonder why Universities are full of students.
Actually our fl. schools train thousand of JAR pilot, what they are going to do, if they dont know to do something else.
Mac donald, Burger king even do nt want these guys.
there are to many flight schools, I know what I am talking about.It s just a market to make money and it s sad to see that all these young guys are still dreaming.
aviation is like a lottery,but lot of money you pay to play and there is few chance to win.
anyway, i dont know what the futur will be, so good luck !
I always hear that study or get a degree is BS, I wonder why Universities are full of students.
Actually our fl. schools train thousand of JAR pilot, what they are going to do, if they dont know to do something else.
Mac donald, Burger king even do nt want these guys.
there are to many flight schools, I know what I am talking about.It s just a market to make money and it s sad to see that all these young guys are still dreaming.
aviation is like a lottery,but lot of money you pay to play and there is few chance to win.
anyway, i dont know what the futur will be, so good luck !
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PP you shouldn't so harsh on Gorky.
Ah I hear you objecting. But you really shouldn't be too critical of Spieling and Grimmer on a forum....and....Stones and glass houses, mate .
BTW 'Gorky' has been on the forum for quite a while, under different usernames. Most notoriously as 'Ronchonner'. He is a wind up merchant, but is (rather worryingly) starting to come forward with more and more coherent posts...
All the best,
JH
Ah I hear you objecting. But you really shouldn't be too critical of Spieling and Grimmer on a forum....and....Stones and glass houses, mate
.BTW 'Gorky' has been on the forum for quite a while, under different usernames. Most notoriously as 'Ronchonner'. He is a wind up merchant, but is (rather worryingly) starting to come forward with more and more coherent posts...
All the best,
JH