what airlines want?
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After reading the thread – it doesn’t really offer much help to those in poised between doing a degree first or going straight into flight training.
There have been some uninformed opinions made concerning university, so for those contemplating a degree, here’s some points to consider.
I did a degree in mechanical engineering, and this involved 40 hrs a week plus an average of 2 hrs private study each day. I also fitted in triathlon training, working weekends, and a full social life. Work hard, and play hard – give it 100%, otherwise you’re letting yourself down and not selling yourself to your full potential. That applies to everything in life, I guess.
I met a huge amount of ex-Eton types, generally on doss courses getting smashed most afternoons with their parents’ money. It was grating to see so much cash being pissed up the wall, and even more grating to see the majority of them slide into jobs arranged by old-boy networking of their parents, but again, that is life.
Having chatted to many HR departments from varying fields, a degree in a decent field is recognised as the application of oneself to a challenging and academic endeavour. In addition to the flight-relevant maths/physics skills, I learnt valuable skills in balancing a very high workload with no real income and fun – all skills that translate perfectly to flight training. It is not the only way – as Batty states, the military will also give you an extremely challenging environment (join the Uni OTC?) - but Uni is a well supported route with many grants available to fund part of the course. Uni doesn’t have to involve a huge debt if you’re prepared to work weekends and summers to fund yourself rather than expect it to be paid for by parents, as many seem to do. Again, for many young guys and gals, learning to fund yourself is a valuable skill many are not well enough practiced in to take on a £50K debt…
University isn’t the only path, by any means. A degree in Art History, although personally stimulating, may not translate to a valued career in many fields – however if you weren’t going to go into the Art field, it would obviously be an indulgence more than anything else. My point is that there are challenging, well recognised fields and there are somewhat obscure courses with the students spending most of the day in the pub – but generalising all, as has been done here, is not correct.
I do agree that life experience is extremely important – having worked in competitive environments both in merchant banks in London and in design in the Netherlands, I appreciate that any extra qualification you have over other applicants doesn’t hurt, but more importantly the result has to be good. A 3rd class degree in Geography won’t open many doors. A strong 2:1 in a relevant field will.
I fully appreciate that I have to give flying everything I’ve got, otherwise I’m wasting my money, my time and selling myself short. As long as you know this, you’ll have the determination to succeed.
As to whether airlines value degrees – I’m a wannabe, not a HR guy so it’s not my place to say. Phone the airline HR departments and ask them. I did, they answered a lot of my questions regarding topics such as this, and I recommend going straight to the people who know for a definitive answer.
Thanks
Bemused.
There have been some uninformed opinions made concerning university, so for those contemplating a degree, here’s some points to consider.
I did a degree in mechanical engineering, and this involved 40 hrs a week plus an average of 2 hrs private study each day. I also fitted in triathlon training, working weekends, and a full social life. Work hard, and play hard – give it 100%, otherwise you’re letting yourself down and not selling yourself to your full potential. That applies to everything in life, I guess.
I met a huge amount of ex-Eton types, generally on doss courses getting smashed most afternoons with their parents’ money. It was grating to see so much cash being pissed up the wall, and even more grating to see the majority of them slide into jobs arranged by old-boy networking of their parents, but again, that is life.
Having chatted to many HR departments from varying fields, a degree in a decent field is recognised as the application of oneself to a challenging and academic endeavour. In addition to the flight-relevant maths/physics skills, I learnt valuable skills in balancing a very high workload with no real income and fun – all skills that translate perfectly to flight training. It is not the only way – as Batty states, the military will also give you an extremely challenging environment (join the Uni OTC?) - but Uni is a well supported route with many grants available to fund part of the course. Uni doesn’t have to involve a huge debt if you’re prepared to work weekends and summers to fund yourself rather than expect it to be paid for by parents, as many seem to do. Again, for many young guys and gals, learning to fund yourself is a valuable skill many are not well enough practiced in to take on a £50K debt…
University isn’t the only path, by any means. A degree in Art History, although personally stimulating, may not translate to a valued career in many fields – however if you weren’t going to go into the Art field, it would obviously be an indulgence more than anything else. My point is that there are challenging, well recognised fields and there are somewhat obscure courses with the students spending most of the day in the pub – but generalising all, as has been done here, is not correct.
I do agree that life experience is extremely important – having worked in competitive environments both in merchant banks in London and in design in the Netherlands, I appreciate that any extra qualification you have over other applicants doesn’t hurt, but more importantly the result has to be good. A 3rd class degree in Geography won’t open many doors. A strong 2:1 in a relevant field will.
I fully appreciate that I have to give flying everything I’ve got, otherwise I’m wasting my money, my time and selling myself short. As long as you know this, you’ll have the determination to succeed.
As to whether airlines value degrees – I’m a wannabe, not a HR guy so it’s not my place to say. Phone the airline HR departments and ask them. I did, they answered a lot of my questions regarding topics such as this, and I recommend going straight to the people who know for a definitive answer.
Thanks
Bemused.
Over 1000 posts and I bought this Personal Title to try and tell my mother the embarrassing news that I am a closet Jazz fan.
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Personally I never wanted to go to University in the first place, I would much have preferred to go the 'alternative' route of learning a trade, keeping out of debt and becomming one of the worlds best tournament paintballers
.
I did however have a Sixth Form Scholarship in Pilot, which matured right after the wonderful options for change, so I went to Uni to help my chances with the RAF. A wasted year doing Engineering in Hull followed by three wonderful years reading Strat Studies in Aberystwyth didn't persuade the dudes in blue (or indeed many organisations outside of McD's) so I followed it up with an MSc comp. sci. to run up a total educational bill totalling just over £20k. Thats a lot of cash when the programming market is (apparently) as dead as the airline market. Maybe I would have been better off with my mug on the front cover of PGI??
Nah...I can see both points of view but the deciding factor for me would be the people I had the opportunity to meet and befriend at University (though maybe not Hull...), 90% of whom I would never have met in my alternate existence.
It would be nice of course to have a trade to fall back on atm rather than rotting away in Cardiff waiting for the damned Java market to pick up but I reckon anyone who has really enjoyed uni to its fullest will never look back, even knowing that other routes could be more profitable.
I guess my case highlights the pros and cons of each option, sure I have high earning potential and lots of pieces of paper to flash at prospective employers, but then again I'm carrying a small mortgage in debt around and havn't played tournaments since '94.
.I did however have a Sixth Form Scholarship in Pilot, which matured right after the wonderful options for change, so I went to Uni to help my chances with the RAF. A wasted year doing Engineering in Hull followed by three wonderful years reading Strat Studies in Aberystwyth didn't persuade the dudes in blue (or indeed many organisations outside of McD's) so I followed it up with an MSc comp. sci. to run up a total educational bill totalling just over £20k. Thats a lot of cash when the programming market is (apparently) as dead as the airline market. Maybe I would have been better off with my mug on the front cover of PGI??
Nah...I can see both points of view but the deciding factor for me would be the people I had the opportunity to meet and befriend at University (though maybe not Hull...), 90% of whom I would never have met in my alternate existence.
It would be nice of course to have a trade to fall back on atm rather than rotting away in Cardiff waiting for the damned Java market to pick up but I reckon anyone who has really enjoyed uni to its fullest will never look back, even knowing that other routes could be more profitable.
I guess my case highlights the pros and cons of each option, sure I have high earning potential and lots of pieces of paper to flash at prospective employers, but then again I'm carrying a small mortgage in debt around and havn't played tournaments since '94.
Chaffers - 6th Form GDP sponsorship followed by OFC, UNI, UAS and no place available so off to find a real job sounds very familiar to me! Drop me a mail.
Cheers
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Some of you may remember back in 1958 a milestone known as Project Mercury.
It was then decided by US President Eisenhower that the first men in space would need to have amongst other things a "Bachelor's degree or the equivalent". Although history chose some great men it judged that one was " not qualified" to go to space purely on his education.
This man, Chuck Yeager.
Did he need the " Bachelor's Degree"? I think we all know the answer to that one!!!
It was then decided by US President Eisenhower that the first men in space would need to have amongst other things a "Bachelor's degree or the equivalent". Although history chose some great men it judged that one was " not qualified" to go to space purely on his education.
This man, Chuck Yeager.
Did he need the " Bachelor's Degree"? I think we all know the answer to that one!!!
I say there boy
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J-Heller,
I'd noticed the similarity too. I was even waiting for Ronchonner's Poodle to reappear also....
BTW 'Gorky' has been on the forum for quite a while, under different usernames. Most notoriously as 'Ronchonner'.
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Chucky Boy
Riddler -
...Chuck didn't need a degree, because the american group researching jets proposed an exchange of ideas with the british group who were technologically advanced.
Once the yankee scoundrels had visited the brit camp and pilfered all their secrets, they then claimed it a security risk to share their info with the brits. I think you learn such underhand tactics in the university of life...!!
...Chuck didn't need a degree, because the american group researching jets proposed an exchange of ideas with the british group who were technologically advanced.
Once the yankee scoundrels had visited the brit camp and pilfered all their secrets, they then claimed it a security risk to share their info with the brits. I think you learn such underhand tactics in the university of life...!!
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I don t want to put a spanner in the works but I went to university hated the life there. The immature attitude and the chance of still not getting a job when you re finished. People are different and if we all did the same thing eg uni, job we didn t want to be in then we would be bored. I have always wanted to be a pilot. I first told everyone when I was 5 years old and was laughed at as I was a girl. Now I think its a choice, and not a condition to go to uni. I learnt nothing in life experience except to be scared of other human beings.
I went to train at a flying school and I learnt more there than I did anywhere. I grew up. You can t act like a child whilst flying because if you do you won t get very far. Life experience isn t about age its about living. You can be 20 and lived away from home for years, or 35 and still living with mum and dad. But living with family doesn t mean you haven t lived. Nature has a funny way of giving life experience from the most unexpected places. I think some people should realise that we re different and take different roads to get to the same goals. As one post stated you go to uni to study for a specified subject so why go and train to be a lawyer,doctor,archaeologist or teacher if you want to fly. People go back to uni at 50 so you can always start again. It s good to have another string to your bow but if that string is going to be useless and you don t enjoy it why use the money and time that you have. You take up a place for someone else at uni who could need it. I would be upset if someone trained to be a pilot and had no intention of flying! We all want the same thing so why are we all fighting?
I went to train at a flying school and I learnt more there than I did anywhere. I grew up. You can t act like a child whilst flying because if you do you won t get very far. Life experience isn t about age its about living. You can be 20 and lived away from home for years, or 35 and still living with mum and dad. But living with family doesn t mean you haven t lived. Nature has a funny way of giving life experience from the most unexpected places. I think some people should realise that we re different and take different roads to get to the same goals. As one post stated you go to uni to study for a specified subject so why go and train to be a lawyer,doctor,archaeologist or teacher if you want to fly. People go back to uni at 50 so you can always start again. It s good to have another string to your bow but if that string is going to be useless and you don t enjoy it why use the money and time that you have. You take up a place for someone else at uni who could need it. I would be upset if someone trained to be a pilot and had no intention of flying! We all want the same thing so why are we all fighting?
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We aint fighting Little Miss but it is an interesting discussion. Anyone can troll a forum by dismissing out of hand one option or another.
For the record I hated Uni too, living in a damp house in a miserable cold city with 5 scrounging drugged up media studies bums wasn't really for me, though I often wonder how I would have fared in Aeronautical Engineering had I gone to a different uni (one that didnt fail IMechE accreditation without telling us would have been nice).
Aberstwyth on the other hand was incomparable, and I spent a very happy 4.5 years there. Its not a question of University good/bad but finding the right course in the right place. Either that or working for a living whilst building your hours.
I guess the real difference is whether you can wait to fufil your dream, personally I saw that the airlines were, if anything, reluctant to take on people with my level of maturity (at the time) so I took the degree path. If you're committed enough, and mature enough at 18 then go for it, if not then get pissed, laid and enlightened (only ever in that order) for a few years.
For the record I hated Uni too, living in a damp house in a miserable cold city with 5 scrounging drugged up media studies bums wasn't really for me, though I often wonder how I would have fared in Aeronautical Engineering had I gone to a different uni (one that didnt fail IMechE accreditation without telling us would have been nice).
Aberstwyth on the other hand was incomparable, and I spent a very happy 4.5 years there. Its not a question of University good/bad but finding the right course in the right place. Either that or working for a living whilst building your hours.
I guess the real difference is whether you can wait to fufil your dream, personally I saw that the airlines were, if anything, reluctant to take on people with my level of maturity (at the time) so I took the degree path. If you're committed enough, and mature enough at 18 then go for it, if not then get pissed, laid and enlightened (only ever in that order) for a few years.
