Women Pilots
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Most airlines do have a certain quota of 'minorities' that they aim to fill and as there is a smaller percentage of pilots that are women, a fully qualified and capable female pilot would have a SLIGHTLY increased chance of employment. However let me stress that it certainly isn't easy for anyone (including women) to get an airline job, you still have to put in the work and impress at the interviews, so I wouldn't either worry about or rely on the assumption that it is easier for women. At the end of the day, anyone who ends up in employment has done it on the back of their own hard work!! 
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The sex discrimination act - makes it illegal to directly or indirectly discrminate on the basis of sex (a few job specific exceptions). This therefore includes positive discrmination - words such as quota are taboo's under the act and such practice would result in a breach of legislation. However employers are allowed to offer training in order to create a level playing field before selection - however any inequalities with in the decision process giving any group any advantage are illegal.
Unfortuantly this does not address the years where some groups have been advantaged so it will take a long time of even, ethical recruitment to redress the balance.
[This message has been edited by Windy (edited 01 March 2001).]
Unfortuantly this does not address the years where some groups have been advantaged so it will take a long time of even, ethical recruitment to redress the balance.
[This message has been edited by Windy (edited 01 March 2001).]
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I would guess that women pilots are in with
a much better chance of getting into an
airline simply because women pilots are under represented.
Successful business women passengers like to see women represented on the flight deck
From memory only 2 percent of ATPLs are women (in the UK) !!
a much better chance of getting into an
airline simply because women pilots are under represented.
Successful business women passengers like to see women represented on the flight deck
From memory only 2 percent of ATPLs are women (in the UK) !!
Guest
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Artifical Horizon, apart from BA can you name any UK airline that has any kind of quota for women pilots, because I have yet to come across one.
Bailed Out, thank you for the compliment (I think!), of course all female pilots are beautiful, sexy, intelligent AND can fly a plane.
As for this ongoing myth about airlines taking on women pilots because they have to, or letting them in even if they were not the best applicant its absolute rubbish.
I think BA might be the only airline that has anything like the standard 3% figure that should represent the % of female ATPL holders.
If you speak to female pilots you will find out all about the difficulties faced by airlines who still forget about the female pilots they have.
Things like no female uniforms available for months, issuing male fitting uniforms to women pilots, having entire manuals written only for "him" and with things like saying all pilots must have short hair, that sort of thing.
We are, believe me, still in the 20th century when it comes to this sort of thing.
Bailed Out, thank you for the compliment (I think!), of course all female pilots are beautiful, sexy, intelligent AND can fly a plane.
As for this ongoing myth about airlines taking on women pilots because they have to, or letting them in even if they were not the best applicant its absolute rubbish.
I think BA might be the only airline that has anything like the standard 3% figure that should represent the % of female ATPL holders.
If you speak to female pilots you will find out all about the difficulties faced by airlines who still forget about the female pilots they have.
Things like no female uniforms available for months, issuing male fitting uniforms to women pilots, having entire manuals written only for "him" and with things like saying all pilots must have short hair, that sort of thing.
We are, believe me, still in the 20th century when it comes to this sort of thing.
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I was on an actual flight once where a male passenger demanded to be put on another flight because the Captain was a woman. Sad but true and I think that it is CR*P like this which has employers afraid to employ women.
I do think that certain airlines employ women because it is PC, but I also agree with the fact that if they were not capable in the first place, they wouldn't get the seat.
I do think that certain airlines employ women because it is PC, but I also agree with the fact that if they were not capable in the first place, they wouldn't get the seat.
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If a passenger doesn't want to fly with a woman pilot then that is THEIR problem, not the airline's. Personally I would be very happy for them to not get on the flight and pay for a different flight. As for demanding to be put on another flight, well the answer is simple, this crew are fully licenced and experienced and the aircraft is serviceable. The service is operating and if you have a problem with that then go pay for another flight. Why should the airline side with that ignorant passenger? I don't think its even remotely a problem for airlines. Airlines also see women pilots as a good excuse for some PR. There is still crap even now about "the first all female crew" and the like, whereas in reality its been going on for years.
I often fly all female crew and we always get plenty of comments at the beginning and then, when the flight is actually very good, we get patronising comments at the end like "well done for getting us here" and things like that, as if its quite amazing that we completed the flight safely.
I often fly all female crew and we always get plenty of comments at the beginning and then, when the flight is actually very good, we get patronising comments at the end like "well done for getting us here" and things like that, as if its quite amazing that we completed the flight safely.
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It is a sad but true fact that there is a general perception that women must be ever so slightly substandard to men when it comes to flying aircraft. After all, I only got my job because there's a 'girl quota' to be filled, right? and I only passed all of the flying tests because I winked at the examiner, and when the examiner was a woman I passed because she was showing solidarity. Passengers on my sectors ask for flight deck visits, not to visit the flight deck but to have a look at the lady pilot. And when I do the 'bye-byes' at the end of the flight I've had more than the odd comment. I feel resigned to going through my career with the general public and even some of my professional colleagues (including an instructor who should know better) making the allegation that somehow I have got in through a back door. The only people who have not carried on in this way are my employers, who say we are all trained professionals. Anyone who is hoping that as a woman they may have a better chance of getting into the airlines is being selfish and doing a disservice to her colleagues.
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I remember once having five pax (all the same party) refuse to get on the aircraft when they say a female sitting in the left seat. They later agreed to fly subject to the other pilot (me) taking command. They were escorted to the door with what could be desrcibed as a certain lack of respect.
On the one hand, it is absolutely true that some of the larger airlines have occasionally hired women under pressure to be PC (I have that first-hand). On the other hand, it is also true the women often need to prove themselves more thoroughly in training. I doubt that, on average, a clear advantage exists.
What has hurt the cause of women pilots, is the few who have failed courses or checks, and then screamed discrimination. This makes airlines VERY wary indeed. The other thing that makes airlines very wary is the possibility of pregnancy!
The worst aspect of this whole subject is the few women who wear their feminist credentials next to their wings, and make life miserable for every male pilot unfortunate enough to fly with them. Luckily, such folk are few and far between- but they do exist.
In my experience, both in training and everyday line flying, I have enjoyed immensely working with female pilots. Most of them are excellent and in a lot of ways, display a better temperament than men, not being so prone to taking risks or "pressing on".
Finally, It completely escapes me why there are so few women in aviation. Given the physical and mental requirements of the job, I would have thought thousands of women would have been doing it.
On the one hand, it is absolutely true that some of the larger airlines have occasionally hired women under pressure to be PC (I have that first-hand). On the other hand, it is also true the women often need to prove themselves more thoroughly in training. I doubt that, on average, a clear advantage exists.
What has hurt the cause of women pilots, is the few who have failed courses or checks, and then screamed discrimination. This makes airlines VERY wary indeed. The other thing that makes airlines very wary is the possibility of pregnancy!
The worst aspect of this whole subject is the few women who wear their feminist credentials next to their wings, and make life miserable for every male pilot unfortunate enough to fly with them. Luckily, such folk are few and far between- but they do exist.
In my experience, both in training and everyday line flying, I have enjoyed immensely working with female pilots. Most of them are excellent and in a lot of ways, display a better temperament than men, not being so prone to taking risks or "pressing on".
Finally, It completely escapes me why there are so few women in aviation. Given the physical and mental requirements of the job, I would have thought thousands of women would have been doing it.
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Im totally with Buffy, you pay for a service, which is a safe and certified aircraft, and a licensed and qualified crew. If the entire crew is female, so what? Anyone who still thinks that a commercial aircraft with a female at the wheel is a problem needs to take their head out of there ar$e.
Good luck to all you girlie drivers. Its about time.
Good luck to all you girlie drivers. Its about time.
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Buffy,
Can you expand on your question to Artificial Horizon? You say 'apart from BA' when asking about airline quotas for female pilots, implying BA have a quota to fill.
Let me make it VERY clear that BA has no such quota. If a lady is employed by BA as a pilot (TEP or DEP) it is because they have satisfied the selectors that they match the selection criteria. There are absolutely NO instructions (written, implied or spoken) that 'N' pilots should be female, Asian or whatever other minority that people not in the 'know' talk about. They are there purely because of their merits.
There are bigots everywhere in life and they exist in the airline world. I have, in the past, heard comments such as 'she's only here because she's a she'. Fortunately I'm in a position to address that and correct the un-learned gentleman.
One extremely good reason for only accepting people who make the grade, is so that all the ladies who are already 'in' and operating to the high standards expected are not tarred with the 'she only got in because...' brush. That is to say; if a female pilot were accepted because of her sex and it were discovered, then all the other female pilots would have the same stigma attached to the; be it true or not. A clear and unambigious selection policy is the only way to get round this.
So, if anyone is in the least bit confused, let me reiterate. BA will employ ANYONE who is good enough and passes the selection procedure. Absolutely NO 'allowance' is made for your sex, skin colour, sexual preference or the employer of your parents (for those with the 'he only got in because his Dad's a Training Capt' hang-up.
Hope that makes things clear for everybody
Pontius
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You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!
Can you expand on your question to Artificial Horizon? You say 'apart from BA' when asking about airline quotas for female pilots, implying BA have a quota to fill.
Let me make it VERY clear that BA has no such quota. If a lady is employed by BA as a pilot (TEP or DEP) it is because they have satisfied the selectors that they match the selection criteria. There are absolutely NO instructions (written, implied or spoken) that 'N' pilots should be female, Asian or whatever other minority that people not in the 'know' talk about. They are there purely because of their merits.
There are bigots everywhere in life and they exist in the airline world. I have, in the past, heard comments such as 'she's only here because she's a she'. Fortunately I'm in a position to address that and correct the un-learned gentleman.
One extremely good reason for only accepting people who make the grade, is so that all the ladies who are already 'in' and operating to the high standards expected are not tarred with the 'she only got in because...' brush. That is to say; if a female pilot were accepted because of her sex and it were discovered, then all the other female pilots would have the same stigma attached to the; be it true or not. A clear and unambigious selection policy is the only way to get round this.
So, if anyone is in the least bit confused, let me reiterate. BA will employ ANYONE who is good enough and passes the selection procedure. Absolutely NO 'allowance' is made for your sex, skin colour, sexual preference or the employer of your parents (for those with the 'he only got in because his Dad's a Training Capt' hang-up.
Hope that makes things clear for everybody
Pontius
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You Ain't Seen Me - Right !!
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Being female or minority will likely get you an interview and job long before a white male would normally. However, once in training and on the line, you'd better be capable. If not you'll quickly develope a reputation. Seen more than a few times with some people who were hired, slithered through training and then were a "problem" on the line. In my last company, there was one particularly bad example of someone who should have been fired, but wasn't because the company was afraid of a lawsuit. Like I said, it may get you an interview and hired sooner -- but you'd better be able to hack the program, or your going to get a reputation that's hard to live down on the line.