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Complete novice, Advice needed.

Old 1st Feb 2015, 20:18
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Complete novice, Advice needed.

Ok here goes. Im sure there has probably been another post similar to this, however i have searched and found nothing.

To fully understand what i am asking you should know abit about me. I am 25 years old, i was a soldier for 6 years and i have been at Durham university for the last 2 years working towards a degree in Physical Geography (as i planned on becoming a secondary school geography teacher). I was wounded in action in Afghanistan and discharged in 2012, i am fine now and confident on passing any medical required. I would ideally like to have a career in aviation and i skydive too (400+ jumps) as i really enjoy every aspect of aviation.

Long story short my medical insurance has finally settled and i now have enough money to comfortably spend on training to become a commercial pilot (150k+). I am very inexperienced in this area and would like to hear any advice from this community, good and bad, even if you think trying for a career in aviation is a bad move for what ever reason. what do you think i should be aiming for? the aviation industry as a whole, rotary or fixed wing etc. i would like to complete my degree otherwise the last 2 years would have been a waste. So this means i can do it in my free time for the next 2 years before really investing 100% of my effort into it. Any tips for newbiess etc?

As it stands i was planning on going with a provider based out of newcastle airport on a part time basis and try to complete my PPL then move forward but i do like the sound of of the rotary side of life but i am unsure to what end? as i would imagine the job sector would be smaller and i know its alot more expensive so i am an open book and would like to hear any advice on the matter so i can make an informed decision. As ive said even if you think im being silly or short sighted please say so as id like to hear any viewpoint.

thank you for your time!
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 21:52
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Complete novice, Advice needed.

Before you do anything else head down to Gatwick and get your class 1 medical. People have failed with all sorts of random and seemingly harmless ailments, so before you spend huge sums on training get the medical nailed.
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Old 1st Feb 2015, 23:22
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Agree: medical must be first port of call.

Complete your degree, something to fall back on when flying deals you a s**t hand. Also gives you more to talk about in competency type interviews (working to a deadline, able to self motivate) though no doubt you will have many fine examples from your previous line of work.

Airliners are generally a more comfortable working environment than helis albeit there is a lot of interesting work in rotary. In the rotary field there are fewer jobs available but there are fewer applicant looking for those jobs. There is I suspect more competition for those jobs from ex forces pilots than is the case in fixed wing. On the civil/airline side there are more jobs but also many more applicants looking for those jobs. Airline recruitment is very un-even and it is nearly impossible to guess when there will next be any large scale demand for new pilots. If it was me and I was totally committed to pursuing a commercial aviation path then I would be trying to get on a preselected course for one of the airlines through one of the designated suppliers (CTC/OAA etc). Unfortunately they seem to have the cadet market cornered when it comes to the two biggest UK airlines.

No easy answers I'm afraid! Best of luck whatever path you follow.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 09:23
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First things

Hi Leedsample,

You no longer have to go to CAA HQ at Gatwick for an initial Class 1 medical, there are 3 other centres, see below:

http://http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1859&pagetype=90&pageid=527

You might want to consider the NATS aeromedical centre at Prestwick as you're up north? Although, a day return flight from NCL to LGW is also reasonably handy I'm told.

Also, as you're ex-forces, are you eligible for and have you considered part funding from the ELCAS scheme? You have a decent pot of money already, but if there's some to be had, why not avail yourself of it?
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 09:51
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hey mr mum, yeah im probably going to hit the train to Glasgow for the jock center. Well H4H have provided me 20 hours of training at black bush airport towards a PPL but thats not until September, so id like to get started now. Im currently getting my med docs in order and going to book an appointment at Glasgow as soon as i have them in hand. As for the ELCAS i traded mine in for funding for my university degree. So unfortunatly not but this 20 hours grant from H4H will deffo help. Cheers for the advice already ill deffo get this class 1 medical in hand before forking out.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 14:20
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Check out Wings for Warriors. I read an article about them in the newspaper recently. I believe they have helped some guys who have been wounded / medically discharged achieve a job flying on the North Sea.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 16:50
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cheers for the input guys. im in the process now of retrieving my medical documents and once i have them ill book an appointment for a class 1 medical in Scotland. I have contacted the Wings4warrior boys to ask their stand point on it all. I think ill go the modular route deffo as ive scanned the other threads and they all seem to point out paying 90k+ for all the modules when i could spend 40k is insane. All that remains now is to pass this medical, and decide whether to invest in the rotary side of life or remain fixed wing. I would ideally like to fly the helicopters but i know its just to look cool and practically going fixed wing is the better option as its cheaper and a wider scope of jobs available. Ill do some more research and decide whats the best route. Ill deffo remain in education and finish off this degree and do it all alongside my degree and in the summer break just go abroad to build hours.

I really do appreciate the input guys, made me think.
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Old 2nd Feb 2015, 18:01
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To be honest with that kind of cash not needing to borrow it would be worth seeing if you could pass selection for the CTC course which gets you placed.

Also with your back ground I suspect that you will have a pretty good chance with the mentored courses with some tax free pay back periods.

You have a fair bit of time so don't commit until the fat bird sings and you have to. Because you have a bit of life experience your way ahead of a lot of the guys of the same age.
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Old 3rd Feb 2015, 10:54
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So im in talks with the wings4 warrior guys.

Well ive scanned the modular vs integrated forum. what is all your take on it guys? if you had the money to pay for CTC upfront and still have 100k spare would you still DIY the modular course and try to break in to the industry? or pay double the modular and potentially get placed with CTC?

As for rotary what are your takes on it?
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Old 9th Feb 2015, 18:27
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It's a tough decision, especially if you can financially afford to do either. I'm ex Military and I used RAF flying clubs to get my ppl at a cheaper rate. From then on I did modular and used MultiFlight (Leeds) for the courses I required (CPL. ME IR). For the joc and mcc I used CRM aviation. For the ATPL theory I used Bristol groundschool. You should also have access to ELCs which will help pay for a few courses.

But as everyone has said, get the class 1 first before spending a heap of cash. Also my other advice would be not to pay everything up front. It wasn't long ago cabair went bust and people had just handed them £000s in cash.

Good luck
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Old 11th Feb 2015, 08:28
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how you getting on now gpro?

i dont have the ELCs anymore as i traded them into pay my university tuition fees. . im just doing all the research now.But now the army settled too im about 200k+ i see the BA FPP is opening up for applications feb 23rdish but i understand ive got better chances of winning the lottery than getting in on that gig, but i will apply any way. Im really unsure as to what option to take. I am really interested in Rotary but ill see what the SMEs say. i also have my class 1 medical in preswick on 23rd so fingers crossed i pass that.


cheers
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Old 15th Feb 2015, 13:53
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The BA route is worth considering, together with the FLYBE MPL scheme. Any form of sponsorship is worthwhile as a potential job is likely to follow.

If this type of route fails to materialise, choose a well recognised EASA ATO, and go full time. Ensure that you do a full MCC/JOC course post IRT. This is the most important part of the basic training for fixed wing ~ better option?

With a year to go at Durham, you have time to fully consider the best option for you. Your present age is not an issue.
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 17:46
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Thanks, well i have a few feelers out. The rotary side of life looks really tempting but it is just so expensive and the job market so fine.

So if all fails and im funding this myself then fixed wing it is. Im planning , if i have to go it alone, to do my PPL with Newcastle then hour build and do the ATPL exams together.

Then do the rest at leeds, CPL, MEP and IR. Ill look into JOC any ideas of good providers?

If i did this full time what would be a reasonable time estimate of completion? lets say i started mid August on the PPL what would the be the end state if this was all i did as i have the funds to just go for it? like finish early to mid 2017? (the modular way if i cant get on an integrated? )
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Old 18th Feb 2015, 20:13
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Full time, say 60 weeks. Look at the best known ATOs first in the EU if you can afford it.
They have the contacts with the airlines if sponsorship is not possible.

But ensure class one medical issued before anything else.
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 11:46
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cheers parkfell, just so im clear ATOs is aviation training organizations?and do you have any recommendations of any for comparison?

so any tweaks on my modular plan?

Newcastle
PPL + night training
(potential hour building, if not abroad too) + ATPL exams at home.

Leeds
MEP, CPL, IR. more hour building if not abroad too

CRM aviation
JOC/MCC combined course.

and you think 60 weeks is a good time estimate if i just go for it as money isnt a problem. cheers for the advice though really do appreciate it.
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 12:50
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You may find the Leeds bit more time consuming as they only have 1 runway and the airfield is 680ish feet above mean sea level which can lead to lots of weather delays. The training is good and the school is nice but you will loose out on continuity if you do suffer these weather delays. I suggest revising your timescales and/or training providers.
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 14:17
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If money is not a problem why not go integrated and have all the benefits that come with it? Quicker to being qualified and somewhat higher chance of employment. Also going all over the place for your training isn't the best idea, ideally you want some continence with the same training provider considering your starting from scratch.
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 15:35
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I agree entirely with 146- comments.

Integrated is your best option by far. With the GBP/€ favourable look at the FTE website. You need to consider Oxford and CTC as well.

Look at BA student pilot schemes........you never know
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 16:41
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If money is not the deciding factor then definitely go integrated. The big integrated schools have pretty much got the low hour recruitment sewn up in the UK.
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Old 19th Feb 2015, 16:53
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thank you to everyones advice so far

i understand the lure of the integrated route. the only thing im worried about is the justification. i understand if i go modular then im going it alone and im going to have to start really low to get airtime and work my way up onto the jets (i watched that 'worst placed to be a pilot' looked really adventurous) but ive spend sub 40k getting through training plus its been tailor made to suit my life. if i go integrated im spending 80k +. the extra 40k+ potentially gets me on the jets for a first job? or am i being blunt?

i spoke with guy who went through CTC and he said to me he had to be placed in a waiting pool upon graduation and waited 9 months for a start and spent 100k plus for the process then went home and worked in a carpet shop until he got the email through for a flexi contract for easy jet.

question is do i spend the 100k and potentially wait post graduation for an email that may never come? or do i go it alone and work my way up with hours but have a 50k pillow?

thanks for the advice guys as this decision is the biggest ive ever had to make and will dictate the course of my life.
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