Seeking Some Seasoned Insight? Networking..
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Seeking Some Seasoned Insight? Networking..
Greetings Fellow Sky Dwellers / Serial High Altitude Tea Sippers!
Not sure If I'm posting in the right sub-forum....anyway I'm sure what I'm about to pose has been regurgitated to no end on here, so here is my attempt in trying to seek guidance/advice from like minded strangers
My Background;
26 year olld freshly qualified Modular Pilot (Got my CPL/IR - MCC pending) who has been through the trenches of trying to juggle full time employment & flight training for the better part of the last two years & boy was it a tough hill to clamber, but I'm finally over (with the exception of MCC due to complete hopefully back end of October 2014). FWIW I had to do it the hard way as the bank of Mom & Dad was dodo status (non existent) as far as my situation went.
We all know the consequences of chasing a childhood career dream the 'hard way'. I'm sure some of you can relate to that anguished demoralising feeling of doing all that late night distance learning ATPL's after an honest days slog day in day out! The discipline & commitment needed to persevere ALL the obstacles thrown at you in this predicament should be compared to the likes of overcoming some serious Herculean strength feats!
Anyway enough with the whimsical wordplay. So here am in the midst of CV compilations & I could really use some pivotal insight/advice in how to go about securing a future that at some point will involve a RHS in it! Been consulting Google all from the confines of my day job for weeks on end & I must admit the results are not exactly giving me a healthy amount of reassurance at the potential aspect of securing employment! Its like my ears are proving to be rather deceitful by fooling me into believing there are doors creaking for me to get my foot in! But when I try the bolts come on
Anyway I have been lurking Pprune for the better part of my late teens/ early twenties & have truly seen some awesome gems being dropped from some of the more prominent board members on here, & on that very note I'm hoping for 'Direct To' Magenta style Guidance if possible.....Just how does ONE go about trying to get known/ be noticed in the industry by the right people, in the hopes of being given a chance to demonstrate the required traits in exchange for a salary yielding seat in the sky & chance to reside where clouds compulsively fornicate
Thanking you in advance for taking time out to read this long winded passage of desperate text
Not sure If I'm posting in the right sub-forum....anyway I'm sure what I'm about to pose has been regurgitated to no end on here, so here is my attempt in trying to seek guidance/advice from like minded strangers
My Background;
26 year olld freshly qualified Modular Pilot (Got my CPL/IR - MCC pending) who has been through the trenches of trying to juggle full time employment & flight training for the better part of the last two years & boy was it a tough hill to clamber, but I'm finally over (with the exception of MCC due to complete hopefully back end of October 2014). FWIW I had to do it the hard way as the bank of Mom & Dad was dodo status (non existent) as far as my situation went.
We all know the consequences of chasing a childhood career dream the 'hard way'. I'm sure some of you can relate to that anguished demoralising feeling of doing all that late night distance learning ATPL's after an honest days slog day in day out! The discipline & commitment needed to persevere ALL the obstacles thrown at you in this predicament should be compared to the likes of overcoming some serious Herculean strength feats!
Anyway enough with the whimsical wordplay. So here am in the midst of CV compilations & I could really use some pivotal insight/advice in how to go about securing a future that at some point will involve a RHS in it! Been consulting Google all from the confines of my day job for weeks on end & I must admit the results are not exactly giving me a healthy amount of reassurance at the potential aspect of securing employment! Its like my ears are proving to be rather deceitful by fooling me into believing there are doors creaking for me to get my foot in! But when I try the bolts come on
Anyway I have been lurking Pprune for the better part of my late teens/ early twenties & have truly seen some awesome gems being dropped from some of the more prominent board members on here, & on that very note I'm hoping for 'Direct To' Magenta style Guidance if possible.....Just how does ONE go about trying to get known/ be noticed in the industry by the right people, in the hopes of being given a chance to demonstrate the required traits in exchange for a salary yielding seat in the sky & chance to reside where clouds compulsively fornicate
Thanking you in advance for taking time out to read this long winded passage of desperate text
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I don't think this works so well for big airlines in Europe, but I got my first job (non jet) by getting to know the management of a small company. Scenarios like this will often be different depending on the person, company and location, but in this instance I did this by very very occasionally renting out one of the SEPs that the company owned. For an hour spent in the air I would spend at least the same (more if it was appropriate) hanging around the offices, getting to know the people and the operation, and I let them know early on that I held the appropriate qualifications to work for them if the situation ever arose. I did my mcc course a few months after finishing my MEIR and the day after I returned home I rang the GM of the company and told him I had completed my MCC (which wasn't even required by the company) and if they had any FO positions going I would be very interested. I was told that there was nothing available. A week later they called me back and said they had a position for me.
Once you get in somewhere like this it becomes much easier to network, because you end up interacting with far more people in the industry. I would speak with crews while hanging about airport lounges, I would speak to aircraft owners who were around the airport, when the local skydiving club ran their bowser down to us to buy avgas, I had a CV to give to them. I often had a CV or two in my flight bag and if we flew anywhere where an operator had an office, I would pop in and have a chat.
As I said this was how I got my first job, and I had built up a good prospect of more freelancing odd jobs (owner flights/paradropping/aircraft recovery) before I ended up getting an airline job through an online application with no contacts.
You need to have the willpower, put in the effort and have a good dose of luck.
Once you get in somewhere like this it becomes much easier to network, because you end up interacting with far more people in the industry. I would speak with crews while hanging about airport lounges, I would speak to aircraft owners who were around the airport, when the local skydiving club ran their bowser down to us to buy avgas, I had a CV to give to them. I often had a CV or two in my flight bag and if we flew anywhere where an operator had an office, I would pop in and have a chat.
As I said this was how I got my first job, and I had built up a good prospect of more freelancing odd jobs (owner flights/paradropping/aircraft recovery) before I ended up getting an airline job through an online application with no contacts.
You need to have the willpower, put in the effort and have a good dose of luck.
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You need to have the willpower, put in the effort and have a good dose of luck.
Really appreciate your detailed write up on how things panned out for you, it gives me some decent ideas. After my MCC I plan to cover a lot of ground (via air) via weekend sortees in the coming months, so yea will be sure to keep a CV or two handy for when I sense some decent rapport with the likes of others at local ATO's/ Clubs etc. I just really need to basically make myself known & interact with the right sort of people who can hopefully see the willingness & enthusiasm first hand when it boils down to expressing the 'I'm your guy for the job' persona accordingly. Hopefully something materialises on that front as I will take any winged opportunity that comes my way to get a start in this field.
Another option I'm toying with is the idea of going after an FI rating...this being plan B after I've saved up some dosh, as my bank account is currently injured at the moment
Once again thanks for taking the time out to offer words of encouragement, its proved to have been a very remedial read on this 'grounded' Friday afternoon at work
PPRuNe Secret Agent!
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Jet2 'up norf' do a very good Pilot Apprentice scheme! Also they employ seasonal folk in ground positions by the coach load, have a look at what's on offer for Summer 2015!
Do not rule out focusing on the turbo-prop operators, it's the best way to set your career up with all the right skills...and far more fun than managing big boring jets in straight lines for hours on end!
Which I have to go and do now!
Good luck!
Do not rule out focusing on the turbo-prop operators, it's the best way to set your career up with all the right skills...and far more fun than managing big boring jets in straight lines for hours on end!
Which I have to go and do now!
Good luck!
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Re networking. It's the great intangible and the most important skill you'll ever need as a 200 hour pilot, but it can't be taught and it definitely can't be learned over a public internet forum because nobody wants to share their secrets.
The basic skill is to be a real people person, never moan, be everyone's best mate, hang out in places where important people hang out and make yourself useful.
You'd be amazed what kind of opportunities come up when you're an FI, especially at a smaller club in the vicinity of a large airport where management pilots like to go have a drink at the aero club on a friday night. In the London area, that would be places like Andrewsfield or Stapleford.
I had only been an FI for a few weeks when I went for a celebratory drink with a lad who had just passed his PPL that day, and I got randomly chatting to a guy at the warbirds bar in Auckland, anyway he ended up confessing that he was looking for a house sitter for next week while he was on vacation - I put my hand up for that - only later did I realize he was the head honcho in charge of recruitment at Air New Zealand. I got a good case of merlot and a very handy mobile number in my contacts list as a consequence of that one! My life subsequently took other paths but it's a good example of what "can" happen when you least expect it.
Networking aside, the FI to turboprop to jet route is still the way to go in my book. It's a slow and grinding and financially painful road to the top, but as long as you're a good guy, ticking over those hours at the rate of a few a week, and you're obviously staying current in some form of flying - the golden phone call WILL come. Yes you'll be gutted more than once when some chancer who you trained with, gets lucky and gets a jet job with 200 hours. You'll feel better when you realize that he's the one out of 10 who got lucky and all your other old mates are not even flying at all.
Instructing is slow and torturous and deeply unfashionable these days, and yet still, despite all the P2F hype and bull**** that flies around the forum these days, it's still the only almost-guaranteed way to the RHS. Do it and you won't regret it.
The basic skill is to be a real people person, never moan, be everyone's best mate, hang out in places where important people hang out and make yourself useful.
You'd be amazed what kind of opportunities come up when you're an FI, especially at a smaller club in the vicinity of a large airport where management pilots like to go have a drink at the aero club on a friday night. In the London area, that would be places like Andrewsfield or Stapleford.
I had only been an FI for a few weeks when I went for a celebratory drink with a lad who had just passed his PPL that day, and I got randomly chatting to a guy at the warbirds bar in Auckland, anyway he ended up confessing that he was looking for a house sitter for next week while he was on vacation - I put my hand up for that - only later did I realize he was the head honcho in charge of recruitment at Air New Zealand. I got a good case of merlot and a very handy mobile number in my contacts list as a consequence of that one! My life subsequently took other paths but it's a good example of what "can" happen when you least expect it.
Networking aside, the FI to turboprop to jet route is still the way to go in my book. It's a slow and grinding and financially painful road to the top, but as long as you're a good guy, ticking over those hours at the rate of a few a week, and you're obviously staying current in some form of flying - the golden phone call WILL come. Yes you'll be gutted more than once when some chancer who you trained with, gets lucky and gets a jet job with 200 hours. You'll feel better when you realize that he's the one out of 10 who got lucky and all your other old mates are not even flying at all.
Instructing is slow and torturous and deeply unfashionable these days, and yet still, despite all the P2F hype and bull**** that flies around the forum these days, it's still the only almost-guaranteed way to the RHS. Do it and you won't regret it.
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Jet2 'up norf' do a very good Pilot Apprentice scheme! Also they employ seasonal folk in ground positions by the coach load, have a look at what's on offer for Summer 2015!
In fact I just recently got wind that a mate of mine (distant associate more like) has managed to score a gig with the Jersey boys (& girls). I'm rather envious of the slippery Dash adventures that await him. Oh well...lady luck & all that malarkey definitely had an intervention at some point as this chap couldn't handle the characteristics of a Grob 115 amicably. I'm sure I'll get a gloat filled postcard from Exeter from him sometime soon
Appreciate the well wishes JB, thanks
The basic skill is to be a real people person, never moan, be everyone's best mate, hang out in places where important people hang out and make yourself useful.
Thanks for sharing your Kiwi Bar tale, it truly is amazing how far innocent vocal chit chat can take you. Your FI advised seems to hit the nail on the head as far answering my question goes. Spoke to my FI (He is now CFI/HOT) at length last weekend trying to liaise MCC dates amongst other things, and he 'nearly' did a better job than yourself at getting me to pursue an FI rating next. I don't know if this was just me, but the conversation had alot of positive undertones of a job promise at the ATO....or maybe I was just trying to read alil too much between the lines
As soon as I have enough spare £££££ at the ready, I will most definitely go for my FI rating & further burden myself with this ' wither'ing wallet syndrome' disease..seems like its terminal in aviation!
To conclude LST (& the others) thanks, for your words of encouragement, wisdom & advice in this time of personal despair. I'm sure someone somewhere out there will entrust me to prove my self worth in a shiny pressurised tube someday....
Last edited by Exiled Martian; 9th Oct 2014 at 11:36.
