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How to Become a Pilot (BA Sponsership)

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Old 21st Nov 2001, 00:46
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Post How to Become a Pilot (BA Sponsership)

Hi all,
I am brand new to this forum and I have a question:
I am 16 years old and I live on the outskirts of London (Chesham)I have always wanted to become an airline pilot for British Airways. I am takeing Physics Maths and Geography A level and an Ecenomics AS level. I hope to apply to the BA Sponsership scheme at 18 after I get my results but the number of applications are huge and I am trying to look for an alternative just in case I don't get in. I DO NOTwant to join the RAF. I am thinking maybe I should go to university and take an avionics/electrical/aeronaugtical degree and each year apply to the sponsership, right up until 21 (the max. age for sponsership)then what? Here are my questions: How is the best way to prepare myself and improve my chances of being accepted on the scheme, what do BA look for? (I have read the info on this site BTW) How would I pay for private training AND build up the 2500 hours required experience before 28 years old (again, the max. recruting age)? Anything I have missed? I am not well off, I have a £150 a month job to try and help (I am trying to study for my A levels as well ) How would I find the money? Thanks for any advise guys.
Richard Cruse
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Old 21st Nov 2001, 02:45
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OK, let me put this into perspective for you...There are so many people in your position! (Me included) You've made a big step by starting out on PPRuNe.
I recommend you keep an eye on all recruitment, at your stage, just for interest rather than applying. Get to know how things work through researching - I believe that the BA sponsorship - when it returns or whatever - is maximum age of around 28 or so rather than 21.
Get flying! If you are earning £150 a month, then that gives you nearly 2 hours a month...If you don't need to spend your cash on other stuff.
I'm 17, and I earn approximately the same - I've just started flying, and when you do, you'll realise what an important move towards the career it is.
Also - Keep your head down at school/college - It's by far the most important bit. Get some good AS Level grades in the bag, and then you'll have less chance of dropping grades when the harder work comes along.
Remember - British Airways isn't the only sponsorship! There are plenty of other great opportunities. Consider the part-sponsorships, if you are guaranteed a job at the end, it's well worth loaning the initial cash!
Being shorter on cash than a lot of people around you (in flying anyway!) can be a bit daunting, but if you have the resolve to get there, you will... If you want a chat - e-mail me.

Regards

Mike

(I'll try and update my website ASAP so those in this position can get some info without having to start threads that go unanswered.)
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Old 21st Nov 2001, 02:58
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Hi Richard,
Okay, lots of questions there but I'll try with what I know.
I took Physics, Maths and English at A-Level. You've got a good selection there, and it will help when you apply for uni (as long as you get good marks!) and when you apply to BA. Maths is important, because it will help.

You should maybe choose a degree that you know you could be good at, because BA will not look kindly on a 2:2 and may not even select you for anything with a 3rd. As long as you enjoy the course, you should do fine, and I don't think BA will mark you down for choosing a course other than Aeronautical Engineering. I did a BSc in Physics.

About the age thing. I don't think the maximum is 21, as I know people who wanted to apply at 26, 27. But all sponsorship, as you may know, is currently on hold. No one is going through the mill of selection, so we will all have to wait for a few years (or months v v v optimistically ).

I have heard flying hours will improve your chances (although not too many hours) which shows your commitment to your chosen career. Although at £110 pound an hour its not cheap. I got my Private Pilots Licence when I was 20 last year after 3 years of training, and I now have over 70 hours.

At university, I joined the University Air Squadron. This was the *best* time of my whole life. I miss it terribly now, and I dream about it every night..
Anyway, this involved experiencing the lifestyle of the Air Force as an Officer Cadet (lowest officer rank - but not exactly being an officer)

So in effect a recruit is not in the RAF as a committed member, but you get signed up as a Volunteer Reserve. Which is fine.
You get to wear cool flying clothes, and you get a nice RAF helmet with a Fast Jet stylee black visor .

But, the Air Squadron is a heck of a committment. It takes a lot out of you, and in my first year I didn't even know my flatmates at uni. I lived my whole life at the RAF base. During your years at uni, you get to do as many flying hours as you can muster (its very hard work).

So, I hope that helps a bit. At the mo, my main advice is to choose a good uni and a fun course, and sit these times out.

MSMD
P.S.
I also used to earn 150pound a month, and I got my licence doing 1 hour a month..

[ 20 November 2001: Message edited by: MonkeySee MonkeyDo ]
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Old 21st Nov 2001, 02:59
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i thought the max age for ba was 26
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Old 21st Nov 2001, 03:26
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yeah that's what i thought......maybe they'll be kind to us wannabes who are currently below that age limit but won't be when they start recruiting again by increasing it to about 28-29 (like was a few years ago).
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Old 21st Nov 2001, 03:39
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Welcome,

Although you say that you do NOT want to join the RAF, I would suggest that you do look at the sixth form scholarship that they have on offer at the moment and see what it gives you, and in addition to this have a look at the Air League and GAPAN schemes to award flying scholarships up to PPL (though I believe it is Air League only that do this).

At the moment you are unfortunately in the same boat as many on this forum in that BA seem as though they may not be recruiting for about three years or so via the Trainee Entry Pilot (sponsorship) scheme, the age limit for which was 27 I believe until it was halted recently, not 21 as you heard.

1) What if you cannot get in at 18?

If they are not yet recruiting or you fail to get in at this age, you would obviously be silly not to look at university. Indeed many of those selected to train by the TEP scheme are graduates themselves so you at 18 will face competition from those possibly more life experienced and mature than yourself, consequently you should not feel bad about not getting in at 18, nor will it be hald against you.

2) University degree

You do not have to do an engineering or science based degree contrary to some myth, and my advice is to do what you are good at, be it economics, history, psychology etc, as all experiences have a place in the company or indeed any company: it all adds to the variety of people that you work with. Neither will advantage or disadvantage you in the selection, and even though for the licence exams a greater awareness of technical areas may help, the mind of any graduate should cope with the exams.

3) Join a UAS

You say you don't want to join the RAF, but give it a go and show an interest: it will give you opportunities you never would have otherwise experienced (if your eyes are perfect for pilot) and you will meet a multitude of different people, and it is far more than looking cool in flying suit and helmet. Indeed you may find that buzzing about at 250 feet in a fast jet is just tto addictive to refuse and end up there for 16 years, but I guarantee you will kick yourself if you don't try. And BA seems to love ex-UAS guys, due to the quality of the training received, and the rounded personalities. It is a commitment, and maybe too much if you are doing engineering or physics based degrees (though possible), so get in it in the first year and find out if you like it. Do the syllabus in 2 years and get streamed Fast Jet, then pressure is of for last year (or two).

4) How to best prepare yourself and improve your chances (and influence people: sounds like a Terrorvision album title!)

Well: get involved in things at 6th form and uni if you go that are based about teamwork, leadership and perseverance. Indeed they are many of the qualities that are looked for by top graduate employers so there again university will do you good. I was vice captain of xx team and I organised xx for the students' union are all plus points in the box. Be prepared for questions on 'why flying', and 'why BA in particular' along with keeping an eye on Flight International in WHSmith and perhaps Pilot, but more keep tabs on big aviation news: remeber that they look for 'manager' types in the selection who have potential and are aware.

With regards to flying, I would tend to not follow the advice of some above, and buy one lesson as a trial (Xmas pressie idea!) maximun, then save (or get somebody else eg RAF/Air League/Parents) to pay for the PPL in one go in a vacation. Why? Continuity matters and so do your savings if you go to university. More flying does not matter for BA, though a PPL is nice for general awareness of why you want to do flying etc. You will spend more and take longer if you fly just twice a month as opposed to the lot in 3-4 weeks, which will give you more confidence and help you remember those skill learnt. Certainly you should NOT try to build hours for the BA TEP selection, just do what it takes to keep the licence valid, and whatever UAS gives you if you get in. HOURS DO NOT HELP (unless they are all military training possibly).

With regards to the Direct Entry Programme (DEP): you cannot really build 2500 hours, as you are required to have flown a 25 tonne or greater transport aircraft or a military fast jet, so I am afraid you need to get a job in another company first! The age limit for this is in the region of mid-forties, rather than 28.

How to find money if you do build hours to get in a low-cost/regional?...Graduate from a good university and work in the city. There are jobs with starting salaries of £45000 not including Christmas and Summer bonuses, so working mad hours for 3 years would give you enough to pay for a full licence in theory. Otherwise a more moderate salary at a city institution or IT consultancy and wait longer or fly at weekends, or even a normal job and fly every other weekend.

Get good A-Levels/degree and you will be made, eventually getting into flying if you persevere.

Good Luck,
Lucifer
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 09:33
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Hi Richard,

I'm training with BA at the moment. Here's the background of people on my course.

Age - Mainly 23-26. They do take people aged 18 to 20, but as someone said, you are up against people with life experience. The age limit by the way is 26 on application and 27 when starting.

Qualifications - Virtually everyone either has a degree or was in the middle of one when they applied. No particular subjects (the whole range from business to science). Maths and Physics to A-Level are definitely and advantage. In addition, most of us have worked for at least a year or two. Helps in a BA interview which is much more business-related and sadly lacking in questions on the types of engines on the BA fleet.

Private Licences - The majority of people had done a few hours flying and just under half the course have a PPL. It's obviously a lot of money to get one but it does show you are committed.

Attempts - Most of us got in on our second attempt. So no harm in trying to get in when you are 18. If you get in, then great. If you don't then go and have fun at university. Save up, get a PPL if you can and get a job. Then reapply and use the knowledge that you got the first time when going for it again. Given the current situation, waiting 5 years from now will do you no harm at all.

Good luck and I hope this helps.
UJ
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 17:29
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Hi there

I am in a similar situation as yourself.
I am in my 2nd year of college at the mo studying A2 Physics, Computing & AS German.

I was looking at immediate sponsorship for the airlines as I do not want to join the RAF. But Since 11/09 and from what people have been telling me about Uni I have decided to go. hopefully the airlines will have re-started there sponsorship schemes again.
I have 35 hrs at the moment and am training for my PPL. I hope to join the UAS when I get to uni to keep my hours up (is that allowed??!).
One word of advice: really research the different aviation courses on offer from the uni's. Go to some aviation careers exhibitions like the Flyer/PPRuNe Intl. Careers in aviation fair.

Whatever you decide, best of luck.
Cheers, Tri
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 18:27
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Trislander. I'm currently during my first year at uni. I was applying to BA when they stopped recruiting. My advice is to go to uni and have a good time. Do a course that you enjoy second only to flying. For the UAS i wouldn't mention your ppl when you are applying and you have to show serious intention to commit to the RAF - you have a max of 2 years flying before they will kick you out - not commited early enough. medical fitness is an issue that i'm not sure of - could take only pilot fit or anyone within limits?
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 18:57
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Richard,
Don't take offence, but if I may be flippant for a moment, the first step you could take to improving your chances might be to learn how to spell "sponsorship". Details count.
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Old 22nd Nov 2001, 19:32
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Hi guys.
Anybody got any info on UAS's as, next year, I intend to be at uni and was wondering what the requirements you needed to join (ie Perfect eyesight, Under a certain age)because I wear glasses(but have my class 1 medical)and i am 22 years old(a bit of a late time to be going to uni I know but hey.
Thanks FD.
(Sorry for trailing off the subject) :o

[ 22 November 2001: Message edited by: Final Destination ]
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Old 23rd Nov 2001, 01:27
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Details for joining can be found at http://www.durham.ac.uk/nuas (inc links to all UASs)

<b>FD</b> You cannot join a UAS as a pilot at your age, as you need to be at Cranwell by 23.5 years old. Very few non-pilots are recruited nowadays.

<b>rahaney</b> You have to mention PPL to them: not disclosing flying hours will get you in serious doo, plus they will refuse to sign your logbook when you leave if you do not.

In general don't bother with UAS if you are only going to use them for hours: you will not enjoy it. If you seriously want to give it a look for two years, then fine, as this is what it is for.
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Old 23rd Nov 2001, 02:51
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Lucifer.

Do you know the exact medical requirements for the UAS system. I am uncertain as to whether entry is limited only to those who are RAF pilot fit. I've read and heard conflicting reports.

Cheers
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Old 23rd Nov 2001, 03:16
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Hi ric.c Hope you get on . Dont disregard the forces just yet. It is a good lifestyle as long as not married or settled. Note that a shared background is a great "in " during the application process . Of the 4 who inteviewed me 3 were ex mil, granted not BA but there are a lot of us out there. Not saying that being ex mil is the B all and end all, but it is a great life ( both pay wise and life experience wise)for a young person and it will give you the time to reflect and assess if you really want to be flying airliners for your whole life. Better to have done something before and then change as airline work can be repetative although great fun.
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Old 23rd Nov 2001, 04:25
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Hi Ric. I'd say the above postings are very sensible and I'll probably repeat some of the comments here.

Get yourself some good A levels to start with. Then I'd say pick a degree that you'll enjoy rather than necessarily sticking with aviation subjects. Airlines in the UK aren't bothered about the subject matter as long as you have a decent 2:1 and have done plenty of other things with your time at University. You'll also have the option of an alternative career if the flying doesn't work out for any reason.

Make the most of all the opportunities you'll get at University for team work, leadership, etc. and don't forget to have fun! I found that the UAS was great training & really fun but you do need to be seriously interested in the RAF if you're going to consider joining a UAS.

I was a BA cadet. My course was made up of graduates - except one who gave up his Uni course for the cadetship. We had a wide range of degrees, working backgrounds and flying experience (from a trial flight to several hundred hours with the RAF). Those with scientific backgrounds did seem to find the groundschool easier but it isn't a pre-requisite.

Good luck.

[ 23 November 2001: Message edited by: Paddington* ]
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Old 23rd Nov 2001, 15:52
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Quote from MM post "You should maybe choose a degree that you know you could be good at, because BA will not look kindly on a 2:2 and may not even select you for anything with a 3rd"
I agree you should choose a degree you like but BA's minimum requirement is a 2:2. I got a 2:2 and got onto BA scheme so MM's comment is a slightly misleading.
Anyway Good Luck richard and follow the advise posted.
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Old 13th Apr 2005, 18:23
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Hi there,
what about i don't have physic and Add.Maths in my current A-level . This is because i don't have these in my high school .
am i still be able to be ?

what if go through the flying school ? after that, am able to get a job cause i don't have experience after draduated out from flight school

corcern......

Thanks.

and more i just had business,maths,law and english in my A-level.
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Old 14th Apr 2005, 14:05
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Ask in the Far East forum - most people here can only answer for the UK.
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Old 14th Apr 2005, 14:32
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Hi ric, im just coming to the end of my university education and i have nothing more to say than i absolutely loathed it! so i think paddington summed it up in a nutshell, choose a course you will enjoy.I didnt and this simply attributed to my hatred of college.i would have enjoyed it much more if i had of choosen a course that was of interest to me ! Also get a few hours in if you can, like someone mentioned. You could find that flying isnt for you.
I found when i did about 10 hours at 16yrs of age back in 2000, that i wasnt even nearly ready to take on such a big responsibility. college will most definately develop and shape you as a person, and when you emerge you WILL find that you are more mature and mentally ready for whats involved (presuming your still up for it)!either way i hope you make the best decision for you!
best wishes and more importantly good luck with the study!
p.s it wouldnt hurt to try and obtain a class I in the next year or two!
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Old 14th Apr 2005, 22:54
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