Can you become a pilot while doing a degree?
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Can you become a pilot while doing a degree?
Hi,
I was wondering if I could get advice off the professionals, as I'm contemplating on the best way to become a commercial airline pilot. I'm currently 17 years old, and ever since I boarded a first flight as a passenger at the age of 8, I always wanted to fly. I wanted to do well at school with GCSEs and A-Levels in order to get flying, I thought qualifications were the major requirement, hence I haven't started with any pilot studies yet. Ultimately, I'm now at a stage where I start to think more wise, or at least I think I do.
I have applied for university, and I'm waiting to start university in September. My parents always pushed me to go to university and do a degree, and I agree with it to some extent. But, I've seen some people say "Why would you need a degree if you want a career as a commercial pilot?... You're wasting your time... etc.". However, I consider this as a worthwhile option, because it almost gives you a pillow to fall back on if I fail with for example... a Class 1 Medical - not that I'll give up if I do, and I can't come to a conclusion, whether I'm mad or merely rational. Can you therefore become a pilot if you're doing a degree?
The reason why I am asking this question, is because I'd like to do both things simultaneously, and I'm not sure whether this a reasonable idea. There may be some madness in my theory, but with all the grants that the Student Loan company is giving beside the Loan itself for university, I could have a PPL for that. I feel it'd be ridiculous to go out and spend four grand on stuff you don't need.
After the degree is finished, the job itself could fund the pilot studies. You don't even feel the loan payments. Well, apparently I heard you don't. Furthermore, I come from a low-income family but I feel that with a job and careful money management, I could get where I want to be. It also brings me onto a question, is there any funding available for future pilots? I'd go the CTC Wings route for instance, but I find the security bond amount a bit of a shock.
Besides the degree and the funding, I'd like to ask about the EASA Class 1 Medical. I've seen people say "It's best to do that first, without it, commercial flying is a no-go". I have sight issues, and while corrected vision is permitted, I believe the requirement is, paraphrasing "for myopia max. -6.0". I'm just waiting to go for another eye test in a couple of days (I'm wearing glasses), because I believe my vision has gone slightly worse, and I fear it may exceed the maximum. I mean, without glasses I can't see a car registration, and text on a computer monitor appears blurred when sitting on a chair. Its a stupid question, but are there any exceptions on this rule? I could go for the LASIK treatment, but I'm scared that the side effects of this treatment might affect flying. Irony. Anyone know anything about that treatment by any chance?
Apologies if I have been rambling, but I simply need to know a bit more to sleep better, and just to get motivated a bit more. I hope you'll understand me, I don't want to come across as a teenager who's confused about his future - it's all very cliche with the current generation.
I was wondering if I could get advice off the professionals, as I'm contemplating on the best way to become a commercial airline pilot. I'm currently 17 years old, and ever since I boarded a first flight as a passenger at the age of 8, I always wanted to fly. I wanted to do well at school with GCSEs and A-Levels in order to get flying, I thought qualifications were the major requirement, hence I haven't started with any pilot studies yet. Ultimately, I'm now at a stage where I start to think more wise, or at least I think I do.
I have applied for university, and I'm waiting to start university in September. My parents always pushed me to go to university and do a degree, and I agree with it to some extent. But, I've seen some people say "Why would you need a degree if you want a career as a commercial pilot?... You're wasting your time... etc.". However, I consider this as a worthwhile option, because it almost gives you a pillow to fall back on if I fail with for example... a Class 1 Medical - not that I'll give up if I do, and I can't come to a conclusion, whether I'm mad or merely rational. Can you therefore become a pilot if you're doing a degree?
The reason why I am asking this question, is because I'd like to do both things simultaneously, and I'm not sure whether this a reasonable idea. There may be some madness in my theory, but with all the grants that the Student Loan company is giving beside the Loan itself for university, I could have a PPL for that. I feel it'd be ridiculous to go out and spend four grand on stuff you don't need.
After the degree is finished, the job itself could fund the pilot studies. You don't even feel the loan payments. Well, apparently I heard you don't. Furthermore, I come from a low-income family but I feel that with a job and careful money management, I could get where I want to be. It also brings me onto a question, is there any funding available for future pilots? I'd go the CTC Wings route for instance, but I find the security bond amount a bit of a shock.
Besides the degree and the funding, I'd like to ask about the EASA Class 1 Medical. I've seen people say "It's best to do that first, without it, commercial flying is a no-go". I have sight issues, and while corrected vision is permitted, I believe the requirement is, paraphrasing "for myopia max. -6.0". I'm just waiting to go for another eye test in a couple of days (I'm wearing glasses), because I believe my vision has gone slightly worse, and I fear it may exceed the maximum. I mean, without glasses I can't see a car registration, and text on a computer monitor appears blurred when sitting on a chair. Its a stupid question, but are there any exceptions on this rule? I could go for the LASIK treatment, but I'm scared that the side effects of this treatment might affect flying. Irony. Anyone know anything about that treatment by any chance?
Apologies if I have been rambling, but I simply need to know a bit more to sleep better, and just to get motivated a bit more. I hope you'll understand me, I don't want to come across as a teenager who's confused about his future - it's all very cliche with the current generation.
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Thank you,
Flying Start seems like a great site with plenty of information, but I'm still uncertain whether university path seems to be a reasonable option to go for, just in case so I have something to fall back on, if for instance I fail Class 1 Medical. Really hope I don't
Flying Start seems like a great site with plenty of information, but I'm still uncertain whether university path seems to be a reasonable option to go for, just in case so I have something to fall back on, if for instance I fail Class 1 Medical. Really hope I don't
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Uni is pointless if you're going down the pilot route. I just do not see the point. Back-up plan? Perhaps, but how many people out there have degrees that are unemployed or work in Tesco? Lots. Degrees are pretty worthless these days, 20 years ago it used to be "oh wow you have a degree" now over half the people I went to college with now have degrees.
You're only adding to your debt from flight school. Plus, if this degree is a back up plan, what's the back up for? When you lose a medical in 20 years time? Will employers still favour a degree you did 20 years ago and never used as opposed to somebody who just left university with the same degree?
Just remember, a degree won't help you get a job. Unless you apply for the BA cadet scheme but competition is still really high even if you do.
You don't really need a back-up plan yet. As long as you get your initial class 1, the chances are that you will still have it by the time you're 40. And when you finish flight training, if you can't get a pilot job you should get a job within aviation like operations. So your degree won't help you there. Unless it's an aviation degree.
Just seems like an incredibly expensive back up plan which you'll probably never use. If you're worried about losing your medical/licence when you're older, you can get loss of medical/licence insurance (it's surprisingly cheap for a good payout) which will cover your bills for a while whilst you look for a new job. And chances are, as a previous pilot you could end up in an aviation job again where you degree has no use.
You're only adding to your debt from flight school. Plus, if this degree is a back up plan, what's the back up for? When you lose a medical in 20 years time? Will employers still favour a degree you did 20 years ago and never used as opposed to somebody who just left university with the same degree?
Just remember, a degree won't help you get a job. Unless you apply for the BA cadet scheme but competition is still really high even if you do.
You don't really need a back-up plan yet. As long as you get your initial class 1, the chances are that you will still have it by the time you're 40. And when you finish flight training, if you can't get a pilot job you should get a job within aviation like operations. So your degree won't help you there. Unless it's an aviation degree.
Just seems like an incredibly expensive back up plan which you'll probably never use. If you're worried about losing your medical/licence when you're older, you can get loss of medical/licence insurance (it's surprisingly cheap for a good payout) which will cover your bills for a while whilst you look for a new job. And chances are, as a previous pilot you could end up in an aviation job again where you degree has no use.
Last edited by pudoc; 20th Jul 2013 at 18:13.
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Hello!
You sound just like me when I was 17-18 years old.
I struggled with the same issue of wheter to take up a degree , my parents were always forcing me to take up a degree but I always wanted to go flying.
But aviation was doing bad and I decided to move for a degree first. I am still yet to complete my degree in Mechanical Engineering I have a year more and then I look forward to start flight school.
Anyway, in my first year of university, I was always regretting the decision of taking up a degree well its always hard in the first year because university is quite different from school, its a lot more to study and little time so don't give up at first.
After I went into the core of mechanical engineering , I found there are a lot of concepts which can be applied to aircraft, so I kept imagining an aircraft and kept many models next to me, to keep me motivated and kept thinking how can this theory and concepts be put into use into aircraft's of course sometime I was moaning and ranting about how stupid the degree is , but in the end its always worth it.
If you think you can arrange the funds to go to university and keep money later for flying I would say go do a degree, because it helps incase you finish flying school and don't find a job as a Pilot you could use your degree for a while and then always go flying when the industry picks up
Also don't just do any degree because your parents force you to do it , find something that interests you , if you can and you are quite good in Physics and Mathematics (you don't have to be brilliant to be an engineer) you could try Aeronautical Engineering its an amazing field and you will study all about aircraft's and I don't know if this is the real situation but I am guessing Airlines will think of you as a better candidate if you apply to a cadet program or even as an airline pilot
Please feel free to reply if you need anymore info.
Good luck! hope to see you flying soon , it may be a long struggle but you will always have an edge
You sound just like me when I was 17-18 years old.
I struggled with the same issue of wheter to take up a degree , my parents were always forcing me to take up a degree but I always wanted to go flying.
But aviation was doing bad and I decided to move for a degree first. I am still yet to complete my degree in Mechanical Engineering I have a year more and then I look forward to start flight school.
Anyway, in my first year of university, I was always regretting the decision of taking up a degree well its always hard in the first year because university is quite different from school, its a lot more to study and little time so don't give up at first.
After I went into the core of mechanical engineering , I found there are a lot of concepts which can be applied to aircraft, so I kept imagining an aircraft and kept many models next to me, to keep me motivated and kept thinking how can this theory and concepts be put into use into aircraft's of course sometime I was moaning and ranting about how stupid the degree is , but in the end its always worth it.
If you think you can arrange the funds to go to university and keep money later for flying I would say go do a degree, because it helps incase you finish flying school and don't find a job as a Pilot you could use your degree for a while and then always go flying when the industry picks up
Also don't just do any degree because your parents force you to do it , find something that interests you , if you can and you are quite good in Physics and Mathematics (you don't have to be brilliant to be an engineer) you could try Aeronautical Engineering its an amazing field and you will study all about aircraft's and I don't know if this is the real situation but I am guessing Airlines will think of you as a better candidate if you apply to a cadet program or even as an airline pilot
Please feel free to reply if you need anymore info.
Good luck! hope to see you flying soon , it may be a long struggle but you will always have an edge
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I'll be finishing my Masters this year and I haven't got a bit of regret, if piloting ever fails (which it easily can) you can always fall back on the hard work you put into the degree and still be in a great position. If you didn't do the degree you'd have to start applying for jobs where competition is fierce and the pay is low. Going down that route would certainly be in the right direction but who knows how long it could take.
To share my experience, my mistake at your age was being completely deluded about the money required to fly, I was at the time working in a supermarket earning about £4 an hour which meant to fly a single hour I needed to do 30 hours work, that's nearly a weeks work for 1 single flying hour.. You need to also take into account that you need to travel to these schools and sometimes if for example you trained in the USA, you need to get there, eat, drink and sleep somewhere which will cost a lot! With a low paid job it is going to take a long time to get enough for these things and that's whilst you give up time with friends and don't spend money on anything. It is a massive test and for me I was interested in engineering and decided I would go down that route until I could pay for flying training comfortably.
CTC to be honest is a pipe dream for many simply because of the amount of money you need to raise, don't believe the hype, you can be a pilot for half the amount they ask for. Even at CTC unless you get on one of the coveted schemes, you are still essentially following an integrated ATPL course with no guarantee that you will gain anything from them but a piece of paper.
My advice is to stick with the degree, work hard and at the same time get a part time job and work slowly towards your PPL. Even if it means using your student loan to fly every so often, the job will keep things ticking over nicely whilst you start to a build a small cash pile. Once you finish you'll have a handy amount of flight hours too which puts you in a good position to get your PPL and fingers crossed your degree will open doors to a better paid job which will help fund the remainder of your training.
Also do not believe people who say degrees are useless, doing a pointless degree in a pointless subject is useless and there is a lot of people doing those kind of degrees. Any good degree in engineering,physics,sciences,classics,mathematics,economics, law is in HIGH demand these days, there is a lot of competition out there but that comes with every job.
If you want any more info then give me a PM!
Good Luck!
To share my experience, my mistake at your age was being completely deluded about the money required to fly, I was at the time working in a supermarket earning about £4 an hour which meant to fly a single hour I needed to do 30 hours work, that's nearly a weeks work for 1 single flying hour.. You need to also take into account that you need to travel to these schools and sometimes if for example you trained in the USA, you need to get there, eat, drink and sleep somewhere which will cost a lot! With a low paid job it is going to take a long time to get enough for these things and that's whilst you give up time with friends and don't spend money on anything. It is a massive test and for me I was interested in engineering and decided I would go down that route until I could pay for flying training comfortably.
CTC to be honest is a pipe dream for many simply because of the amount of money you need to raise, don't believe the hype, you can be a pilot for half the amount they ask for. Even at CTC unless you get on one of the coveted schemes, you are still essentially following an integrated ATPL course with no guarantee that you will gain anything from them but a piece of paper.
My advice is to stick with the degree, work hard and at the same time get a part time job and work slowly towards your PPL. Even if it means using your student loan to fly every so often, the job will keep things ticking over nicely whilst you start to a build a small cash pile. Once you finish you'll have a handy amount of flight hours too which puts you in a good position to get your PPL and fingers crossed your degree will open doors to a better paid job which will help fund the remainder of your training.
Also do not believe people who say degrees are useless, doing a pointless degree in a pointless subject is useless and there is a lot of people doing those kind of degrees. Any good degree in engineering,physics,sciences,classics,mathematics,economics, law is in HIGH demand these days, there is a lot of competition out there but that comes with every job.
If you want any more info then give me a PM!
Good Luck!
Last edited by squarehole; 21st Jul 2013 at 19:59.
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You seem pretty worried on the class 1 thing, so just go ahead and get it done. The first one has to be done at Glasgow, so phone the CAA and get it booked, once it's done you'll know where you stand, and if you then develop any problems at least your in their system as having been healthy once, which is better than going to your first class 1 with a pre-existing problem.
You could always join a UAS, although they generally expect you to be applying to the RAF if you do that.
You need to figure out how you're planning to fund this dream, either with or without a degree.
Some people may say you don't feel the loan repayments on a student loan, but this is only because it comes out with the tax before they pay you your wages so you never really see it. If the money came into your account and then left to the loan provider you would certainly notice it, and any unsecured loan you get for flight training would be very noticeable every month.
You could always join a UAS, although they generally expect you to be applying to the RAF if you do that.
You need to figure out how you're planning to fund this dream, either with or without a degree.
Some people may say you don't feel the loan repayments on a student loan, but this is only because it comes out with the tax before they pay you your wages so you never really see it. If the money came into your account and then left to the loan provider you would certainly notice it, and any unsecured loan you get for flight training would be very noticeable every month.
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I received my A-Level results last week, and I have decided in the end to go for an IT degree. I felt that its the only area that interests me, which in fact has almost a guarantee of a stable job after university (they want soft devs and web developers everywhere these days), with a good wage. I may have however not considered the fact that after three years, I'll end up being blind, looking at computer screens. My vision is already blurred, and I can't see at a distance, but I don't see double yet or anything. I'm really concerned about it. It's the only issue I'm worried about - rest is fine.
Although it may sound snobbish and naive, I'll have the 'monies'. It will take many sacrifices in my personal life, but I'm not in a rush anywhere. I will work part-time at uni, and I will save up for a PPL from Maintenance Grants. Also my parents will probably give me some sort of support. I can then complete the PPL shortly after university, when I've found work, and work my way up. I'll take it slowly, work will be obviously in the way, but I'm positive about it all. Air Law after work, flying on a Saturday... all good.
However, I was wondering about one thing. I heard the industry isn't keen on old pilots these days, and the demand is on young pilots, aged below 25. Would my 'take it slow' plan backfire then, or is it better not to rush it? I still believe though, that if you really want something, you'll get there. Even if you're older.
While I think it's a responsible plan to stick to, I'm not entirely convinced I'm doing the right thing. I'm confused, but my parents have pushed me towards university. It was however partly also my personal decision, as I believe that a degree will at some stage in life allow me access to a better job, and to the career I want to achieve - flying. Whether that's true, we'll see in three years time
You need to figure out how you're planning to fund this dream, either with or without a degree.
However, I was wondering about one thing. I heard the industry isn't keen on old pilots these days, and the demand is on young pilots, aged below 25. Would my 'take it slow' plan backfire then, or is it better not to rush it? I still believe though, that if you really want something, you'll get there. Even if you're older.
While I think it's a responsible plan to stick to, I'm not entirely convinced I'm doing the right thing. I'm confused, but my parents have pushed me towards university. It was however partly also my personal decision, as I believe that a degree will at some stage in life allow me access to a better job, and to the career I want to achieve - flying. Whether that's true, we'll see in three years time
Last edited by HighFlyerPL185; 22nd Aug 2013 at 21:53.
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Sounds like a good plan to me... well, seeing as it's exactly what I done/am doing. I worked 3 part time jobs at one point, while also studying for my degree in Computing Science. You've chose a good field with good job prospects.
I'm now working as a software engineer (landed a job before I graduated) and am building some quality time flying to all sorts of weird and wonderful places on my weekends off.
I aim to finish with no debt by earning the money before I spend it. This may be difficult come the IR but I've managed it this far and can see as far as the CPL without going into any debt (although I am hoping to get it all done on my own money, I'm also a realist). I can however be a long slog at times, especially when you watch other guys thunder through their advanced training in a matter of a few months. All in all though, you sound like you have the time to enjoy life while training at a reasonable pace. That's what I'm doing and I do recommend it. I will have to pick the pace up soon once it comes to the CPL but I'm in no rush to throw away a steady career until I'm absolutely ready... perhaps in another year or so.
You're in a very similar situation to where I was 4 years ago so I may be able to offer you an insight into my experiences and give you a heads up on what I done right or wrong.
What I would say is be smart about your timing - there's no point in doing your PPL during 1st year of university if you aren't going to do anything else until you graduate, but that's just my opinion. Feel free to PM me.
I may have provided too much information... 4reds may have worked out who I am
I'm now working as a software engineer (landed a job before I graduated) and am building some quality time flying to all sorts of weird and wonderful places on my weekends off.
I aim to finish with no debt by earning the money before I spend it. This may be difficult come the IR but I've managed it this far and can see as far as the CPL without going into any debt (although I am hoping to get it all done on my own money, I'm also a realist). I can however be a long slog at times, especially when you watch other guys thunder through their advanced training in a matter of a few months. All in all though, you sound like you have the time to enjoy life while training at a reasonable pace. That's what I'm doing and I do recommend it. I will have to pick the pace up soon once it comes to the CPL but I'm in no rush to throw away a steady career until I'm absolutely ready... perhaps in another year or so.
You're in a very similar situation to where I was 4 years ago so I may be able to offer you an insight into my experiences and give you a heads up on what I done right or wrong.
What I would say is be smart about your timing - there's no point in doing your PPL during 1st year of university if you aren't going to do anything else until you graduate, but that's just my opinion. Feel free to PM me.
I may have provided too much information... 4reds may have worked out who I am
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High Flyer,
You are 100% percent right that a degree won't do any harm and offer a fail safe if your aviation career does not take off, however, with the cost of university courses and then undertaking commercial pilot studies I would look at how your going to finance both of these.
In regards to CTC the cost of their course is circa £90,000 and unless you have the money in the bank it is inevitable that you will have to get a loan. Now, no banks that I know offer unsecured loans for any more that £20,000, which is only a fraction of the cost that is needed. The only way banks are going to lend you this sort of money is offering an asset as security (a house for instance). Unlike you I never contemplated going to uni because I had my heart set on flying and I personally thought it would be a waste of time (unless you want to be a profession i.e accountant, lawyer)
Based on the above I would really think about what's more important. Competition for pilots is fierce at the moment and unlikely going to change in the foreseeable future. Your still young at the moment so there's no rush to get into training. My advice would be go to uni, settle into a job for a few years and save as hard as you can and then start. Alternatively, you could go to uni, after that get a job and do the modular route.
You are 100% percent right that a degree won't do any harm and offer a fail safe if your aviation career does not take off, however, with the cost of university courses and then undertaking commercial pilot studies I would look at how your going to finance both of these.
In regards to CTC the cost of their course is circa £90,000 and unless you have the money in the bank it is inevitable that you will have to get a loan. Now, no banks that I know offer unsecured loans for any more that £20,000, which is only a fraction of the cost that is needed. The only way banks are going to lend you this sort of money is offering an asset as security (a house for instance). Unlike you I never contemplated going to uni because I had my heart set on flying and I personally thought it would be a waste of time (unless you want to be a profession i.e accountant, lawyer)
Based on the above I would really think about what's more important. Competition for pilots is fierce at the moment and unlikely going to change in the foreseeable future. Your still young at the moment so there's no rush to get into training. My advice would be go to uni, settle into a job for a few years and save as hard as you can and then start. Alternatively, you could go to uni, after that get a job and do the modular route.
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One other thing to mention is the volume of learning/information that needs to be taken in whilst training is vast. Coupling this with university work would be a very hard task.
