CABAIR - General discussion for those involved.
There's certainly something happening at EGTC. Driving past this morning - lights in some of the buildings and people in Cabair logoed clothing walking around.
I didn't see any of their aeroplanes doing anything however.
I know no more than that, but at least it's some sign of life.
G
I didn't see any of their aeroplanes doing anything however.
I know no more than that, but at least it's some sign of life.
G
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Cabair UK at Cranfield is deff up and running. I know one ground school student back in ground training there and he has been there since last week Wednesday.
This seems to be the fold and re-open Cabair UK!
This seems to be the fold and re-open Cabair UK!
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I have heard Cabair callsigns all week when on EGTC so they are defo operating. It sounds like good news for their current students. I just hope the new management does their job right!
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Good news for Cabair Cranfield Students, but still bad news for Cabair Bournemouth and Wycombe students who have been left with no money and no training....lets hope that something goods happens for us too.
Surely there should be no effect to Wycombe students regardless? They are with WAC whose business and approvals haven't, so far as I can tell, been effected in any way?
G
G
All FTOs, bar the handful who do modular-only, offer pay-as-you go.
G
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EPTA required you to pay up front for the section of your course undertaken, so you paid in full for the CPL, then multi and finally the IR and got a discount....that's how some students have lost money. So guess the moral of the story is don't pay up front even if they offer you a discount....lesson learnt.
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So the question I pose to everyone is how can the old Cabair close, then re-open as new Cabair and till claim to have all the history... please see the below quotes from there new website....
(From a take off nearly four decades ago Cabair are now one of the largest companies operating in the commercial pilot training sector worldwide. and further down....As a major supplier of quality First Officers and future commanders to international airlines, our customers have included British Airways, Flybe, Ryanair, Air India, Kuwait Airways, Royal Brunei Airlines and many others of a similar stature)
As they are a new company surley they have not actually trained anyone yet let alone for any airline mentioned above and how can the be the biggest with only one little school in Cranfield?....surely this is fraud!
(From a take off nearly four decades ago Cabair are now one of the largest companies operating in the commercial pilot training sector worldwide. and further down....As a major supplier of quality First Officers and future commanders to international airlines, our customers have included British Airways, Flybe, Ryanair, Air India, Kuwait Airways, Royal Brunei Airlines and many others of a similar stature)
As they are a new company surley they have not actually trained anyone yet let alone for any airline mentioned above and how can the be the biggest with only one little school in Cranfield?....surely this is fraud!
However, the ASA would also be good bet, especially as new standards for online advertising came intro force in the UK in March of this year.
As a matter of interest, this exact thing happened when a Midlands Flying School went broke a couple or years back...and I'm fairly sure, following a Pprune discussion, the offending web page disappeared...at least temporarily.
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On 8 November a deal was concluded, for which negotiations started on 16 September (sic!), the so-called pre-packaged sale.
The following is from a letter to creditors by the Administrators:
"The initial consideration was split as follows:
Stock, funiture and simulators in Cranfield £240,000 of which £40,000 is to be uitilised to discharge the finance outstanding on two of the sims.
Intellectual property £34,000
Goodwill £7 !!!!!!!
Business Names £ 4,200 !!!!!!
the shares in CIUK £ 88
supplier contracts £42
prepay liabilities £1 !!!!!!!!
Company Records £862
In addition to the above, there is provided within the sale agreement for additional consideration in respect of goodwill to be paid in October or November 2013 which is dependant upon the number of students who have paid the instalments in respect of an integrated course. A maximum of £108,000 additional consideration may be payable."
Bold lettering and exclamation marks are mine.
The following is from a letter to creditors by the Administrators:
"The initial consideration was split as follows:
Stock, funiture and simulators in Cranfield £240,000 of which £40,000 is to be uitilised to discharge the finance outstanding on two of the sims.
Intellectual property £34,000
Goodwill £7 !!!!!!!
Business Names £ 4,200 !!!!!!
the shares in CIUK £ 88
supplier contracts £42
prepay liabilities £1 !!!!!!!!
Company Records £862
In addition to the above, there is provided within the sale agreement for additional consideration in respect of goodwill to be paid in October or November 2013 which is dependant upon the number of students who have paid the instalments in respect of an integrated course. A maximum of £108,000 additional consideration may be payable."
Bold lettering and exclamation marks are mine.
I don't see what intellectual property they have. They use ProPilot manuals for groundschool. Perhaps the flying training manuals / approvals etc ?
Think of the time it takes to put together a FOB, manuals for any AOC operations, student handbook, company aircraft manuals and checklists, company W&CG sheets, staff handbook, student record sheets... - it all adds up and if you can take all of that from somewhere else and implement it within minimal modification then a great deal of time, and thus money, can be saved.
Given that £34k is maybe half a man-year of total employment costs of a middle-ranking aviation grown-up, this may be fairly cheap.
G
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The letter referred to is 8 pages long and clearly cannot be copied here in its entirety.
What I find interesting is that meetings between various solicitors (NatWest, CIAL, CIUK) and the Proposed Administrators started already on 16 September and that this pre-packaged deal was on the table before the place stopped operating on 29 September AND the staff were not (and still have not been) paid for September.
Remember that the Court appointed the above Administrators on October 20th as a result of a non-payment claims by Mr. S. Read and some outstanding debentures from other companies in the Cabair Group.
What is the format for proposed administrators becoming appointees for the Court?
All told it smells of Capt. Birdseye
What I find interesting is that meetings between various solicitors (NatWest, CIAL, CIUK) and the Proposed Administrators started already on 16 September and that this pre-packaged deal was on the table before the place stopped operating on 29 September AND the staff were not (and still have not been) paid for September.
Remember that the Court appointed the above Administrators on October 20th as a result of a non-payment claims by Mr. S. Read and some outstanding debentures from other companies in the Cabair Group.
What is the format for proposed administrators becoming appointees for the Court?
All told it smells of Capt. Birdseye
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Ok, I've read through most of this but I'm not 100% clear.
How is EPTA distance learning groundschool affected by all this?
It seems maybe it's all gone down the pan.
Anyway, I paid £895 for their whole distance learning program, but before going on any revision weeks or taking any exams got offered a job at a different location with all training included, along with ATPL exams.
So I'm trying to get a refund on that... will I have any joy?
How is EPTA distance learning groundschool affected by all this?
It seems maybe it's all gone down the pan.
Anyway, I paid £895 for their whole distance learning program, but before going on any revision weeks or taking any exams got offered a job at a different location with all training included, along with ATPL exams.
So I'm trying to get a refund on that... will I have any joy?
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Hmm, therein lies the problem. They were charging a fee to pay by credit card, and never in a million years did I think they'd go bankrupt, so I paid by free bank transfer. Ah well, its not that much in the big scheme of things.
NO TXT SPK THNX
HWB
huh? where did all the rest of my post go? it was in as much good english as the above. well little point in staying here if moderators are that cavalier.
NO TXT SPK THNX
HWB
huh? where did all the rest of my post go? it was in as much good english as the above. well little point in staying here if moderators are that cavalier.
Last edited by Avatar73; 22nd Nov 2011 at 19:08.
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If Colin Green is still involved with EPTA and happens to be reading in, I'm watching with interest !
One day Colin you might be held accountable for various things, this is the second company you are employed by/involved with, in the last 10 years to go tits up?
What goes round comes round fella, enjoy your xmas cnut
One day Colin you might be held accountable for various things, this is the second company you are employed by/involved with, in the last 10 years to go tits up?
What goes round comes round fella, enjoy your xmas cnut
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EPTA may continue, or may continue under a different name which is more likely, however, I very much doubt that I will ever seem my cash or training again....
Seems like another fast trick by some very squirmy executives...
Watch this space.
Seems like another fast trick by some very squirmy executives...
Watch this space.