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CABAIR - General discussion for those involved.

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CABAIR - General discussion for those involved.

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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 13:04
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CABAIR - General discussion for those involved.

I have closed the old Cabair thread because it was degenerating.

This thread is for those involved to post any relevant information as it comes to hand in order that the aviation community may follow the progress.

I must point out that anything posted should be from 'open source' rather than private letters or emails that the originator would not wish, or be aware of, publication.

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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 15:11
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Does anybody know if the 7th November ground school course at Bourenmouth is on or off? There is absolutley no info coming forth on this front.
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Old 2nd Nov 2011, 22:05
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All those 'involved' with commercial training at Cranfield (flying and groundschool) don't really need this thread as we're in communication with Cabair and FL500. If Anyone has been missing out on information they need to speak with FL500 and confirm their name and course they are on against a list of students.

As a Cabair student this is where I am getting my information from.

Current students are unlikely to post lots of information on PPRuNe (and are advised to bite their lip on the Internet) as it could look bad for a company we want to survive and complete our training & help with jobs at the end of our course.

Reading the speculation and words from those not In The Know is comical at times and the motives of some posters is highly questionable.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 15:39
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Exclamation

G-RICH and others,

CIA Ltd. is the parental holding company set up last year with the new ownership of the investor group headed by Clive Dolman, Ludwig Bertsch and Tim Talaat in December.

The previous owners, including Steve Read, became minority owners as all existing companies including those in America were rolled up as subsidiaries of the new CIA Ltd. With CIA Ltd. in administration all of the dependent companies are effectively as well.

Re posting details: I have been on PPRuNe since the mid 90's with hundreds of posts, but none in the past two years. Apparently the join date was reset in 1999 and post count more recently. This further dashes my hope of ever seeing I.F. Snailtrails on here again.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 16:02
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Cabair structure - Companies House data

]Historically, the main business of Cabair seems to have been conducted by companies owned by Cabair Holdings Ltd (CHL). In March 2009 (latest available accounts, the March 2010 accounts are overdue) the CHL Directors were Stephen Read, MC Henry, Shahriar Peyami , S Hinton-Lever and MJ Bradley Russell: the latter three were appointed in late 2008. CHL had a positive balance sheet of £5.2M but this consisted almost entirely of the cost of investments in its subsidiaries. Operating profit was £80k.

In May 2010 Flying Pictures Ltd bought 10% of CHL prior to a proposed merger which subsequently does not seem to have happened. Colin Prescot and James Hunter Smart, the CEO and Financial Director respectively of Flying Pictures Ltd were appointed as a Directors of CHL in May 2010 but resigned in October 2010.

In early 2011 three new investors were reported (by Flyer magazine) to be buying the majority of shares in CHL and a new CEO and CFO were appointed. Between December 2010 and April 2011 the entire shareholding of CHL was acquired by Cabair International Aviation Ltd, one of three companies formed immediately prior to this announcement (the others were Cabair (UK) Ltd and Cabair (Overseas) Ltd). No accounts are due to be published yet for these three companies.

Cabair International Aviation Ltd was put into administration in October 2011. The ownership of this company is not recorded as it is too recent to have submitted a return.

CHL subsidiaries are/were - Over The Pond Ltd (which seems to own 65% of the Cabair USA operations), Cabair Helicopters Ltd, World Aviation Holdings Ltd (see below) and Plane Talking Ltd. The latter appears to be an aircraft owning company, with £4.1M of fixed assets on its books at March 2010, but bank borrowings/loans totalled £3.1M and total liabilities exceeded assets by £1.1M, even when a claim of £951k for ‘defective engines’ is assumed to be an asset.

CHL also owns/owned Cabair Group Ltd (CGL). CGL in turn owns/owned Cabair Ltd, Cabair Maintenance Ltd, Cabair Flying Schools Ltd and Cabair College of Air Training Ltd. The latter three are seemingly the active trading companies in CGL. In June 2009 CGL sold European Pilot Training Academy Ltd to World Aviation Holdings Ltd (WAHL - see below) for £2 and sold 100,000 CGL deferred shares to WAHL for £100,000 (but CGL had not been paid by March 2010). CGL also owns about 10 dormant historic companies.

CHL owned World Aviation Holdings Ltd until it sold it in December 2008 for £160k, at a loss to CHL of £176k. Stephen Read, MC Henry, Shahriar Peyami and MJ Bradley Russell were shareholders and directors of WAHL at 31 March 2010. WAHL owns Wycombe Air Centre Ltd and bought 80% of Worldwide Aviation Ltd (aircraft maintenance company) for £280k during the year ended March 2009. As noted above, WAHL also acquired European Pilot Training Academy Ltd from CGL in June 2009. All the WAHL shares were acquired by Cabair International Aviation Ltd in December 2010.

Cabair Consultants Ltd and Cabair International Ltd are dormant companies.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 16:46
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Knowing nothing about the current situation the key question for Wannabes not yet sold on a CABAIR course is; why not go elsewhere?

People will all have their own responses to that question. Those responses will determine the future for the flying school known as CABAIR.

I have no crystal ball. Perhaps I don't need one.


WWW
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 17:31
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Presumably the replacement will be deemed a new company, subject to the rigours of the CAA approval checklist (form SRG\1175, http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG1175Issue1.pdf).

What are the criteria in section 17 that is considered 'evidence for sufficient funding'? Should there be a tick box for 'previous fiduciary history' and 'moral courage'?

My heart sinks.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 17:40
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G-RICH

My understanding of the current situation is that all the other parts of Cabair that are "unnecessary" to the survival of commercial training at Cranfield have been either wound up, sold off in management buyouts or bought by the previous owners.

The situation for students isn't a bleak as you might think, that's all I'm saying for now.
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 17:55
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That's probably what the Phoenix partnership told Nu Labour when taking over Rover, before winding up and trousering the last 11 Million squids, driving into the sunset in their - er - BMWs.

Last edited by rmcb; 3rd Nov 2011 at 18:01. Reason: Added text
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Old 3rd Nov 2011, 21:19
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Cabair - good news, light at the end of the tunnel

Oh my God it's a train coming!
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 13:17
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I had expected to see the Phoenix rise by now.......or at least to see its 'flight plan' (perhaps even to FL 500)
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Old 6th Nov 2011, 21:40
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What makes you think there isn't a plan.. and that you should be privy to it?
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Old 8th Nov 2011, 13:56
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WWW....... hit the nail on the head. Why indeed not look elsewhere if you're not yet committed to them?

I feel desperately sorry for the students involved in this mess, yet again the guys and girls handing over the money for training are up for a shafting. Surely time for the CAA to become more actively involved in the regulation of FTO's?!?!?!

As a past student (who left for another FTO along with almost everyone else on my course as soon as we could after completing modular groundschool), Cabair is an absolute shower of brown smelly stuff and having seen first hand how it treats students, I'm not surprised that it's going down the pan.

Best of luck to those involved. I hope purely for your sakes that this is resolved quickly.
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Old 8th Nov 2011, 15:26
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@ G-RICH,

But perhaps these "Greek practices" may be of interest to those considering NuCabair in the future ? Those that do their research and come across this thread, that is.
Without turning this into a race row.

Your comments on 'Greek practices' are downright ignorant, uncalled for and frankly racist, be careful what you write and stick to the topic or this will end up a political thread.
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Old 8th Nov 2011, 19:55
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Two events very recently:

1) The lady working in Marketing was, in her words, officially made redundant
today. I got this from an open FB page.

2) In the December issue of FLYER, which came out over the weekend,
there was a short article by Cabair International Ltd CEO about an
imminent (by the end of the week) resolution to the 'restructuring', with
exisiting students expected to pay between an additional £10-15k .
Bearing in mind printing and delivery times I imagine the interview was
given at the end of October.

I think this ship has sailed. nevertheless I would LOVE to be PRIVY to the info held by T.F.C and others.

G-RICH: Could not agree more!
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Old 8th Nov 2011, 22:36
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I feel desperately sorry for the students involved in this mess, yet again the guys and girls handing over the money for training are up for a shafting.
Seconded here.

Surely time for the CAA to become more actively involved in the regulation of FTO's?!?!?!
Agreed.

Where else do you have the potential for a company to trouser maybe £70k+ in a short period of time without having an effective regulator peering over their shoulder? Bankers probably eye this market jealously.

Time for change.
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Old 9th Nov 2011, 15:35
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G-RICH's post from 21:51 is pretty accurate.
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Old 9th Nov 2011, 16:46
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Err, Greece has run up massive national debt, and expects everybody else to foot the bill.

Surely, that is the current Greek (national) practice.

I have many greek friends and colleagues who I like and trust, but their nation is not a good neighbour right now and so the term "Greek Practices" hardly seems unreasonable.

G
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Old 9th Nov 2011, 20:40
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The latest heard at Bournemouth today from some Cabair guys on the degree program is that they can no longer continue with the course and EPTA is finished.
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Old 9th Nov 2011, 22:31
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The Pheonix would appear to have risen. "Cabair International" Ground School resumed operation today at Cranfield. Flight School expected to be up and running next week.
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