funding your ATPL training
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funding your ATPL training
ive been chatting recently with a pilot friend of mine who has been aviating with BACF for 2 years now. amongst the advice and hints he gave me, i forgot to ask him the method by which he funded the £120k for his integrated (non modular) training.
i presume some sort of large loan is the way forward, unless one is lucky enough to get sponsored (non-existant these days ive heard). so, how are people going about it?
i presume some sort of large loan is the way forward, unless one is lucky enough to get sponsored (non-existant these days ive heard). so, how are people going about it?
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unless you've got parents that are willing to pay for your training this becomes the hardest question to answer; there are many ways, but make sure you look around to find the offer that suits you best!
A good place to start would be to look here: http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...-training.html
Personally i want to have some money behind me before starting training, so will try and get a job as a despatcher, handling e.t.c ( good for contacts too)
The main loan that the FTO's promote is the BBVA loan,
Security required - Mortgage over a UK property or cash based investment account
Guarantor required - Property owner must act as guarator
Maximum amount - Course fees plus living expenses
Interest rate - Libor rate +2.25%*
Repayment period - 10 Years Maximum
Repayment holiday - 18 months
What happens after payment holiday? - For 24 months following the repayment holiday period, repayments can be reduced by 25% of the calculated normal monthly payment*
Interest charge through the repayment holiday period - To accrue on the loan principal
Setup commission - Flat rate of £500
BBVA legal expenses in securing a charge over a UK property - Approximately £700 in England or Wales and £1,000 in Scotland or Northern Ireland.
A quick google search would reveal many more options so give that a try too!
Good Luck,
M1995.
A good place to start would be to look here: http://www.pprune.org/professional-p...-training.html
Personally i want to have some money behind me before starting training, so will try and get a job as a despatcher, handling e.t.c ( good for contacts too)
The main loan that the FTO's promote is the BBVA loan,
Security required - Mortgage over a UK property or cash based investment account
Guarantor required - Property owner must act as guarator
Maximum amount - Course fees plus living expenses
Interest rate - Libor rate +2.25%*
Repayment period - 10 Years Maximum
Repayment holiday - 18 months
What happens after payment holiday? - For 24 months following the repayment holiday period, repayments can be reduced by 25% of the calculated normal monthly payment*
Interest charge through the repayment holiday period - To accrue on the loan principal
Setup commission - Flat rate of £500
BBVA legal expenses in securing a charge over a UK property - Approximately £700 in England or Wales and £1,000 in Scotland or Northern Ireland.
A quick google search would reveal many more options so give that a try too!
Good Luck,
M1995.
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Hello,
I would never pay that much, nor I wish to have a debt that size going integrated route. But each to their own.
Modular route for me, married, with a 4 year old, my main source of income is my monthly wage where I try to take a percentage and put it on a savings account, however I do try and do as much overtime as possible at work to try and increase the flying fund bank account.
It is not always easy when one spend most of the time working and doing overtime, but it has to be done, because in the eventuality that I have to ask for a loan I would like to ask for as less as possible.
I would never pay that much, nor I wish to have a debt that size going integrated route. But each to their own.
Modular route for me, married, with a 4 year old, my main source of income is my monthly wage where I try to take a percentage and put it on a savings account, however I do try and do as much overtime as possible at work to try and increase the flying fund bank account.
It is not always easy when one spend most of the time working and doing overtime, but it has to be done, because in the eventuality that I have to ask for a loan I would like to ask for as less as possible.
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Hi, and thanks for the advice
im reluctant to do modular over integrated as several pilots ive asked have told me that airlines prefer to choose non-modular pilots, i quote "because modular course are less of a known quantity, and airlines are very safety conscious".egards,
is this true?
regards,
matt
im reluctant to do modular over integrated as several pilots ive asked have told me that airlines prefer to choose non-modular pilots, i quote "because modular course are less of a known quantity, and airlines are very safety conscious".egards,
is this true?
regards,
matt
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hi steve,
one of the other recommendations from my pilot friend was to only start the course once i had secured a mentorship scheme (ie. you do well and pass well, and we'll give you a job afterwards), with the advice not to give up as securing his took 7 tries. this is apparently what he did with BACF and he says it caused a fair bit of controversy when he went straight into a job and some others were left stranded after having passed the course.
as for money up front.. well, this whole idea is a contigency plan for me not passing my first year of aero eng exams here at bristol (im really good at aeronautics and mechanics but i suck at fluids, thermodynamics and electronics). as i have been reliably informed that this summer would be good time to start training due to the beginning of a general upturn, as well as the creaming off of senior pilots to the east, both making lots of vacancies. also i presume i can transfer a fair bit of knowledge gleaned from my year on this course to passing the ground exams.
i have a few get rich quick schemes i could employ in the summer hols involving restored vintage motorbikes (a family hobby) but i dont hold out too much hope.
please do tell me if everything ive just said is utter bull.
one of the other recommendations from my pilot friend was to only start the course once i had secured a mentorship scheme (ie. you do well and pass well, and we'll give you a job afterwards), with the advice not to give up as securing his took 7 tries. this is apparently what he did with BACF and he says it caused a fair bit of controversy when he went straight into a job and some others were left stranded after having passed the course.
as for money up front.. well, this whole idea is a contigency plan for me not passing my first year of aero eng exams here at bristol (im really good at aeronautics and mechanics but i suck at fluids, thermodynamics and electronics). as i have been reliably informed that this summer would be good time to start training due to the beginning of a general upturn, as well as the creaming off of senior pilots to the east, both making lots of vacancies. also i presume i can transfer a fair bit of knowledge gleaned from my year on this course to passing the ground exams.
i have a few get rich quick schemes i could employ in the summer hols involving restored vintage motorbikes (a family hobby) but i dont hold out too much hope.
please do tell me if everything ive just said is utter bull.
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Depends on where you heard that this summer will be the best time to start training mate, if an integrated flight school told you, then you have to remember that its all marketing to them, I personally got told the same thing two years ago and nothings really changed, you've just got to know that training and earning an fATPL isn't an automatic right to fly airliners, you might get a job straight away but you also might have to wait 1,2,3,4,5 years etc, theres still a lot of unemployed experienced pilots out there and a lot of low houred fATPL guys as well from integrated and modular routes.
I wish you the best of luck buddy but some advice would be to do as much research as you can about every aspect/route of training, its costs and life as a pilot, try to have a plan/job to fall back on (degree would be handy) if you cant get employment after training (the loan repayments will be huge £500-1000 per month), as well as a plan to somehow continue flying if your unemployed, also something I don't hear enough of on these forums but I think its extremely important, you need to prove you have motivation for a flying career, its a prime interview question, "why do you want to be a pilot" and a good answer could set you apart from 10 - 100's of others if you have done something special to show your committed to this career, have you tried gliding? thats always a good start I know Bristol Uni have a gliding club, not saying this is you mate but too many people simply BUY a license, often for genuine reasons but things are so competitive now its not enough anymore. (sorry for the essay but this is just a few things to consider)
I wish you the best of luck buddy but some advice would be to do as much research as you can about every aspect/route of training, its costs and life as a pilot, try to have a plan/job to fall back on (degree would be handy) if you cant get employment after training (the loan repayments will be huge £500-1000 per month), as well as a plan to somehow continue flying if your unemployed, also something I don't hear enough of on these forums but I think its extremely important, you need to prove you have motivation for a flying career, its a prime interview question, "why do you want to be a pilot" and a good answer could set you apart from 10 - 100's of others if you have done something special to show your committed to this career, have you tried gliding? thats always a good start I know Bristol Uni have a gliding club, not saying this is you mate but too many people simply BUY a license, often for genuine reasons but things are so competitive now its not enough anymore. (sorry for the essay but this is just a few things to consider)
Last edited by M_Wall13; 15th May 2011 at 19:05. Reason: grammer
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Quote:
'as i have been reliably informed that this summer would be good time to start training due to the beginning of a general upturn, as well as the creaming off of senior pilots to the east, both making lots of vacancies. also i presume i can transfer a fair bit of knowledge gleaned from my year on this course to passing the ground exams.'
(IMHO)Please no, no no no no! I hear this being said so often it kills me! Agree with the knowledge part but the so called pilot shortage does not exist! There is a job market here with thousands of pilots unemployed who have much more experience than a newbie out of an FTO with 250 hours TT. Ok, senior pilots are retiring, but when the industry went belly up, other senior pilots were layed off or demoted, so while you think this will cause an 'updraft' it wont, because the spaces can be filled with ease. Also like earlier as i said, there are so many pilots at the moment without a job who can fill the places that will become available in the future. Just have a quick look around the forums on here! You will soon see my point.
The market to date is one where a person who has the most money can buy themselves the RHS of an airliner, just look at eaglejet
.
Seriously consider your options at the moment, train if you please, but be aware of the dangers, a 'dream' can lead you very far astray.
'as i have been reliably informed that this summer would be good time to start training due to the beginning of a general upturn, as well as the creaming off of senior pilots to the east, both making lots of vacancies. also i presume i can transfer a fair bit of knowledge gleaned from my year on this course to passing the ground exams.'
(IMHO)Please no, no no no no! I hear this being said so often it kills me! Agree with the knowledge part but the so called pilot shortage does not exist! There is a job market here with thousands of pilots unemployed who have much more experience than a newbie out of an FTO with 250 hours TT. Ok, senior pilots are retiring, but when the industry went belly up, other senior pilots were layed off or demoted, so while you think this will cause an 'updraft' it wont, because the spaces can be filled with ease. Also like earlier as i said, there are so many pilots at the moment without a job who can fill the places that will become available in the future. Just have a quick look around the forums on here! You will soon see my point.
The market to date is one where a person who has the most money can buy themselves the RHS of an airliner, just look at eaglejet
. Seriously consider your options at the moment, train if you please, but be aware of the dangers, a 'dream' can lead you very far astray.
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you mention eaglejet in a bad light
ive just been looking at this:
Eagle Jet International, Inc.
and it seems pretty good to my untrained eye
ive just been looking at this:
Eagle Jet International, Inc.
and it seems pretty good to my untrained eye
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YES, there is a pilot shortage, a shortage of rich pilots!
flight schools and flight instructors needs you. They need your money.They will never tell you something like :"no, this industry is f...up!, they don't need pilots, thank you for your visit, bye"
after trained you will certainly join the thousand of unemployed pilots and you will continue to believe in this profession. (you have to try!!!)
Then after 2 years, you will meet a girl, make baby,...and with 200h, not flew for 2-3 years and kids at charge , I can tell you, your chance are nil.Your lady will ask you to bring money home.
and without a type rating, forget about it!
this profession is reserved for rich dreamers!
flight schools and flight instructors needs you. They need your money.They will never tell you something like :"no, this industry is f...up!, they don't need pilots, thank you for your visit, bye"
after trained you will certainly join the thousand of unemployed pilots and you will continue to believe in this profession. (you have to try!!!)
Then after 2 years, you will meet a girl, make baby,...and with 200h, not flew for 2-3 years and kids at charge , I can tell you, your chance are nil.Your lady will ask you to bring money home.
and without a type rating, forget about it!
this profession is reserved for rich dreamers!
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"The market to date is one where a person who has the most money can buy themselves the RHS of an airliner, just look at eaglejet."
Looking at eaglejet, what's your issue with them? If people can afford the route that they offer, why not?
Personally (because all the best statements start with 'personally I think'), I think that if people want to fly then they want to fly. You can't sit there in your wrongness and moan that there's an easy way into the RHS of an airliner - because people pay through the teeth to take that easy way and I can assure you, as I'm finding out every day, these loans are not an 'easy' way into the industry.
In short (and slightly more coherently) - if the industry is only taking low-houred pilots from schemes like eaglejet, or tagged guys from integrated schemes, then who are we to say to these potential pilots 'you shouldn't do that', simply because we didn't want to borrow that kind of money or take that kind of risk?
Looking at eaglejet, what's your issue with them? If people can afford the route that they offer, why not?
Personally (because all the best statements start with 'personally I think'), I think that if people want to fly then they want to fly. You can't sit there in your wrongness and moan that there's an easy way into the RHS of an airliner - because people pay through the teeth to take that easy way and I can assure you, as I'm finding out every day, these loans are not an 'easy' way into the industry.
In short (and slightly more coherently) - if the industry is only taking low-houred pilots from schemes like eaglejet, or tagged guys from integrated schemes, then who are we to say to these potential pilots 'you shouldn't do that', simply because we didn't want to borrow that kind of money or take that kind of risk?
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Matt
The market is rapidly becoming flooded with young pilots with 500 hrs on type looking for a job that doesn't exist. Why? Because once you have your 500 you are dispensed with and the next sucker is taken on.
So what happens to these guys?
Airlines have developed in two ways:
a) Ones that still expect decent BROAD experience. ie. a few thousand hours spread around and gained over some years.
b) Your Ryainair type that will only look at you without the type training as they are on a backhander from the FTO!
So, go spend your, (the banks), money, get the type, get the 500hrs, demean the industry, lower everyones T&C's, take the place of experienced pilots and then find yourself staring into a £100k+ abyss!
Food for thought eh?
The market is rapidly becoming flooded with young pilots with 500 hrs on type looking for a job that doesn't exist. Why? Because once you have your 500 you are dispensed with and the next sucker is taken on.
So what happens to these guys?
Airlines have developed in two ways:
a) Ones that still expect decent BROAD experience. ie. a few thousand hours spread around and gained over some years.
b) Your Ryainair type that will only look at you without the type training as they are on a backhander from the FTO!
So, go spend your, (the banks), money, get the type, get the 500hrs, demean the industry, lower everyones T&C's, take the place of experienced pilots and then find yourself staring into a £100k+ abyss!
Food for thought eh?
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EZY and RYR aren't p2f.... sure, you pay for the TR but you get paid to fly the plane 
you don't buy hours?
you don't buy hours?
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In short (and slightly more coherently) - if the industry is only taking low-houred pilots from schemes like eaglejet, or tagged guys from integrated schemes, then who are we to say to these potential pilots 'you shouldn't do that', simply because we didn't want to borrow that kind of money or take that kind of risk?
The T&C's can only go one way whilst people are paying to come to work. and thats down.
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Ah.... but there in Lies the problem
According to Mr Prophead I should stay home and visit the airport on Weekends to note Tail Numbers!
No way, I'm bored of University Chess Club and it's time to get some gold bars and look good down 'Bar Med'.(LGW airport night).
I don't care about T's and C's (or other pilots enjoying their Kudos).. it's my turn now and, with a little help from Oxford and my 'favorite bank' its time to party. As a special incentive my 'favorite bank' has agreed to provide a 'fully serviced' batchelor pad into the deal of the loan.. even the repayments are optional.. (I have promised to pay back every penny!)
My mum can tell her friends that Tarquin is 'Training to be an Airline Pilot', (and doing ever so well), and I can look forward to the Crew Bus with the adoring Lady Babes. A quick trip to Wensums and I'll be looking quite the part in my Party frock.
I don't want to hear the voices of reason, I want to have it Large!!
Eastern Airways offer the chance to purchase a Jetstream rating for £15K and then I earn almost £20K.... Julian Curd has something for me too. Failing that there's FR or Whizz or even Eaglejoke.. delete insert.. it's all the same to me, a Bargain! God Bars = Kudos = Girls!
You doom sayers just want to leave me hiding in corners of WHsmith, trying to peep a goz at the top shelf. I will NOT be tricked!
According to Mr Prophead I should stay home and visit the airport on Weekends to note Tail Numbers!
No way, I'm bored of University Chess Club and it's time to get some gold bars and look good down 'Bar Med'.(LGW airport night).
I don't care about T's and C's (or other pilots enjoying their Kudos).. it's my turn now and, with a little help from Oxford and my 'favorite bank' its time to party. As a special incentive my 'favorite bank' has agreed to provide a 'fully serviced' batchelor pad into the deal of the loan.. even the repayments are optional.. (I have promised to pay back every penny!)
My mum can tell her friends that Tarquin is 'Training to be an Airline Pilot', (and doing ever so well), and I can look forward to the Crew Bus with the adoring Lady Babes. A quick trip to Wensums and I'll be looking quite the part in my Party frock.
I don't want to hear the voices of reason, I want to have it Large!!
Eastern Airways offer the chance to purchase a Jetstream rating for £15K and then I earn almost £20K.... Julian Curd has something for me too. Failing that there's FR or Whizz or even Eaglejoke.. delete insert.. it's all the same to me, a Bargain! God Bars = Kudos = Girls!
You doom sayers just want to leave me hiding in corners of WHsmith, trying to peep a goz at the top shelf. I will NOT be tricked!
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Nice post
The problem is it should not be the wannabes decision to make. There should be somebody enforcing the requirements for training/employment and protecting the industry. Other industries have professional bodies that do exactly that to keep T&C's/wages high and standards uniform throughout.
I do not blame the individual for wanting to get ahead. I blame the already employed and settled, BALPA paying pilots that don't put pressure on their union to wipe this out. Eventually the declining T&C's will tart to affect the Captains of the larger airlines and I believe BALPA will suddenly take an interest. It may however be too late.
The problem is it should not be the wannabes decision to make. There should be somebody enforcing the requirements for training/employment and protecting the industry. Other industries have professional bodies that do exactly that to keep T&C's/wages high and standards uniform throughout.
I do not blame the individual for wanting to get ahead. I blame the already employed and settled, BALPA paying pilots that don't put pressure on their union to wipe this out. Eventually the declining T&C's will tart to affect the Captains of the larger airlines and I believe BALPA will suddenly take an interest. It may however be too late.
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I am glad you like my work!
Don't hold your breath waiting for the Balpa Knight in shining armour to arrive, he ain't coming.
Safety is the job of the regulator, Joe Public et al do not consider 'safety' as anything other than a given. If an airline has an AOC then that box is ticked.. Now; how much is the very cheapest ticket?
And that's where Tarquins mum comes in. She subsidizes our tickets by funding our 'Big Eyed', Gold Bar wearing, little chap. The seat prices are held artificially low; something we all can enjoy.
Only the economic downturn will extinguish the credit pool that has funded 'on tap' training and ready ascent into the Flight Deck. Sadly this will not happen quickly.
It must be remembered; Tarquin did not start training attracted to the potential earnings. He is 'driven' by a need below the line of his belt!
He wants to 'live his dream', and these schemes are a fundable option that will let him. Basically, as long as his Mum stumps up he's going to live the dream. Wives, kids and mortgages are not in his scan. The destruction of the industry just isn't his problem.
In precis, we've had the best of this gig. Tarquin's here now, and he's goin pull the chain.
Don't hold your breath waiting for the Balpa Knight in shining armour to arrive, he ain't coming.
Safety is the job of the regulator, Joe Public et al do not consider 'safety' as anything other than a given. If an airline has an AOC then that box is ticked.. Now; how much is the very cheapest ticket?
And that's where Tarquins mum comes in. She subsidizes our tickets by funding our 'Big Eyed', Gold Bar wearing, little chap. The seat prices are held artificially low; something we all can enjoy.
Only the economic downturn will extinguish the credit pool that has funded 'on tap' training and ready ascent into the Flight Deck. Sadly this will not happen quickly.
It must be remembered; Tarquin did not start training attracted to the potential earnings. He is 'driven' by a need below the line of his belt!
He wants to 'live his dream', and these schemes are a fundable option that will let him. Basically, as long as his Mum stumps up he's going to live the dream. Wives, kids and mortgages are not in his scan. The destruction of the industry just isn't his problem.
In precis, we've had the best of this gig. Tarquin's here now, and he's goin pull the chain.
