Is pilot job market picking up at all??

[alphaadrian]

Hi Cefey

I got an ATPL and 2700hours. 1100 turbine/multi-crew. Applied for several hundred jobs since my last company went bankrupt. With all your experienceand positive attitude I thought you maybe could point me in the right direction...lol!

Alpha

[taff_lightning]

Out of interest. In an earlier post someone said there was/or will be a shortage of experienced pilots. At what time does one become an experienced pilot? 2000, 3000, 15000hrs. Something I've always wondered.

[KAG]

Shortage of experienced pilot is a polite way to say there is no shortage.

Picking up an experienced type rated captain from an other company, this is a cheap way to deal with human ressources.

Taff: experienced pilot doesn't mean 100 hours or 1 billion hours, it means captain on type (type being the one the hiring company operates...)

[captainsuperstorm]

At what time does one become an experienced pilot?

when you wallet is full and open for these P2F schemes.

France/US/UK will attack soon Lybia, do you think airlines are thinking about pilots, when they think now how to cross the Mediterranean sea.

This will shot down some civil planes soon! next crisis is coming!

[Artie Fufkin]

Wiki "Confirmation bias";-

Confirmation bias (also called confirmatory bias or myside bias) is a tendency for people to favor information that confirms their preconceptions or hypotheses regardless of whether the information is true. As a result, people gather evidence and recall information from memory selectively, and interpret it in a biased way. The biases appear in particular for emotionally significant issues and for established beliefs

[volunteerpilot]

Wanna know lowest entry point, here you go ...

Lot of young pilots are confused about what is required for airline job so thought adverts below may clarify things. Note the factoring table at the end, basically it means 3000 hours on single engine is factored down to 900 hours as far as EasyJet is concerned etc. Also note how CTC is marketed / positioned, message is if you are not experienced give us yer mooney and get lost... They say how will a newbie benefit from extensive training, no mention of job etc. (Well done marketing team)

Jet2 advert

Jet2.com is the North’s leading leisure airline, with a fleet of B757-200s and B737-800s & 300s. As we continue to grow, we are looking to recruit a number of Non-Type Rated First Officers from both military and civilian backgrounds.
In this position you will ensure the efficient and smooth running of our flights, adhering to our Standard Operating Procedures at all times. You will also ensure that the crew work effectively as part of a team to help achieve our high standard of customer service and on time performance.


To be considered for this role you must have:

• A minimum of 1,000 flying hours, of which 500 hours must be medium military or commercial flying on rotary or fixed wing turboprop or turbo jet aircraft
• A valid Class One Medical
• A valid passport with no restrictions
• The right to live and work in the EU without restriction

You will have lots of enthusiasm, energy and commitment to customer service as you will play a leading and pivotal role in our exciting plans for 2011/12 and beyond.
If you are interested then please complete our online application form.

EasyJet advert

To qualify as a 737 or A319 type rated pilot, we prefer a minimum of 500 hours on type within the last 5 years.
For those wishing to start an airline career as a pilot, but not yet in possession of a pilots licence, we are, in association with our training partner CTC, able to offer a sponsorship scheme that (dependant on growth plans) will enable up to 24 applicants a year to achieve their dream. This exciting commitment by easyJet to the career development of young people will enable a select few to benefit from a highly extensive training process.
Application for this sponsorship opportunity is only available through CTC's website www.ctcaviation.com/wings - please do not apply directly to easyJet for this scheme. More information on the CTC Cadet Sponsorship Programme can be found here.
For pilots with a frozen ATPL but less than 500 hours total experience we continue to take a small number of entrants through CTC's ATP Scheme – please visit CTC's website to learn more about the ATP Scheme.
Of course, as we are expanding at such a high rate, our requirements may change - we will keep you updated on those requirements through this website.
Factored Hours Ratios

Command Other
easyJet 1
Airline/Shorthaul/Jet 0.9 0.8
Airline/Longhaul/Jet 0.7 0.6
Turbine/Multicrew/airline 0.8 0.7
Single Pilot/Airline 0.7
Multi engine/non airline 0.7 0.6
Fast Jet/military 0.8
Single Engine/non airline 0.3 (morale of story, get onto big a/c)
Rotary/Multi crew 0.5 0.4
Rotary/Single pilot 0.1

[KAG]

Interesting volunteer pilot.
I just add something: the most part of the airline-turbofan job advertisement I can see around the world is for captain type rated and experienced on type. This is the egg and chicken story from the wannabe viewpoint. And of course there is no shortage of 500/1000 hours F/O. If there were, they would just decrease the minimums (down to 180......). Those 500/1000 hours minimums is the very proof there is an over supply of pilot.

Get a $20.000 Single engine CPL, maybe with a basic flight instructor rating, then go around the world to get some experience, and maybe you will be able to climb the ladder step by step. This is the only way (and not an easy one) nowadays to become an aviator instead of a jet monkey full of debts.

[cefey]

job in sweeden, for low hour pilots (250TT).
Nordflyg Air Logistics | Job Applications

job in greece, no pre-set req.
Sky Wings Airlines

If I monitor all the sites closely, there is about 2-5 new jobs like this each week.
For sure, its not enough for everyone, but then again, not everyone is looking for all kind of jobs neither

[captainsuperstorm]

forget it!

Get a $20.000 Single engine CPL, maybe with a basic flight instructor rating, then go around the world to get some experience

experience on what? 3000h on single engine?low paid salary.

I know many guys who have been instructor in flight schools. They have never found a job with their 3000h on SEP.Most have simply given up and have now a normal life!.


Companies want turbine or jet.who cares of a FI with XXXX hours?
better to try to join an airline with 200h than spending more money in a flight instructor license.

really, forget this profession.
Anyone starting training, will soon realize it' s a total waist of money. Even if you land a job, by exemple on a ATR, and log 1000h , then what will be your next job?, you still don't have the 1000h on jet.

why not start training when the market needs pilot? and be sponsored by an airline.

WHAT'S THE POINT TO HAVE A NICE LICENSE, IF IT 'S TO LOAD CARGO PLANES IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT, WITH A **** SALARY AND NO FUTURE AT ALL ??? GET REAL !

[KAG]

Sure cefey, and I am sure we can find some more examples.
The only fact we have to in this particular situation find some examples to justify a viewpoint means it's not the general rule or reality.

If we had to follow your biased method we could, as you did, give 2 examples of jobless pilot not able to find a job, but it would be pointless, because everybody knows this is the normal situation for a CPL wannabe just finishing school in 2011 to be jobless.

[yardmaster]

easyJet 1
Airline/Shorthaul/Jet 0.9 0.8
Airline/Longhaul/Jet 0.7 0.6
Turbine/Multicrew/airline 0.8 0.7
Single Pilot/Airline 0.7
Multi engine/non airline 0.7 0.6
Fast Jet/military 0.8
Single Engine/non airline 0.3 (morale of story, get onto big a/c)
Rotary/Multi crew 0.5 0.4
Rotary/Single pilot 0.1

Are turboprops (ie ATR 72 / Dash 8) classified as Jets or Turbines?

[volunteerpilot]

Does anyone know if Ryanair or other airlines have similar factoring of flight hours?

[shaun ryder]

#129

KAG

Get to grips and stop spouting the brown stuff. Everyone knows that the 737-200's P&W JT-8d's are both turbo fan engines. As for the rest of your lesson on aeroplane powerplants, its simply cringe worthy.

[Jugs08]

Future pilot supply for the airlines


Airlines seem to be starting to order aircraft in respectable numbers again after a period in which cancellations or postponements dominated. The Emirates order in June for another 32 Airbus A380s - bringing its planned A380 fleet to 90 aircraft - is the most spectacular of a steady stream of new contracts.
As orders accelerate, however, less thought seems to have been given to who is going to fly the new aeroplanes. Hardware requires skilled "liveware" to operate it, but airlines seem to be assuming that appropriately qualified pilots will just materialise as required.

Although Watt acknowledges that there is little demand for low-hour pilots among western European airlines, apart from the big low-cost carriers such as Ryanair and EasyJet, eastern Europe is hiring, and so is Asia. Any recent graduate from ab initio training can find a job somewhere in the world if he/she is willing to travel, he says.
The evidence of the looming global need is there for all to see. The current firm order backlog for the global airline industry stands at well over 7,500 aircraft, as listed by Flightglobal's Insight Fleetwatch from its ACAS database, and although a few monthly cancellations still feature, they are now dramatically outnumbered by new orders.
Boeing forecasts a global need for 448,000 new airline pilots to enter the industry over the next 20 years, and more than half a million new maintenance engineers. But many carriers are performing no pilot and engineer supply planning.
Long-term forecast demand for airline pilots and mechanics is significantly higher than it was before the global economic recession, according to new figures from Boeing's Training and Flight Services division. The company estimates that the average annual airline pilot demand for the next 20 years will be for 22,500 new pilots and 28,000 new mechanics to replace those retiring, and to cope with growth in the global airline fleet. Just two years ago in 2008, the Training and Flight Services division's forbear, Alteon, forecast that the average annual global industry needs for the 20 years from 2007 would be 18,000 pilots and 24,000 maintenance engineers.
North America heads the league in terms of the number of pilots it will need in the next two decades, at 112,000 (forecast by Alteon in 2008 at 98,000) and Europe follows at 97,000 (70,000). Other regional predicted requirements are China 61,000 (49,900), South-East Asia and Indonesia 34,000 (32,000), Latin America 32,000 (22,800), north-east Asia 19,000 (19,000), the Middle East 23,000 (17,500), the CIS 20,700 (11,500), Africa 13,200 (10,100) and Oceania 13,000 (7,200).
Boeing's projection of the totals for the next 20 years brings home the size of the task: the need to train 448,000 pilots and more than half a million mechanics. This raises the question as to whether the training infrastructure to meet demand can be created in time following the slump in airline investment in ab initio training since the recession began, which has seen capacity in the flight training sector reducing, and investment at flight training organisations put on hold.

[captainsuperstorm]

well, this is still the same story since 25 years.
never seen any pilot shortage in my life, what they are talking about?

first: plenty of experimented pilots ready to work, maybe 200'000 around the world. enough for 6-7 years.

second: why they should hire you, they(airlines) can simply go in the streets, and take 0 hours teenagers, and offer 10-20 years contract.

third:P2F is here, not in the USA, but EU and other countries will adopt this lucrative way to make easy money.

1+2+3= you are screwed!

[KAG]

Have a look at the date of your article: 21/09/2010, written before the middle east revolution/war, before the nuclear accident, and before the terrible fuel inflation we are experiencing right now. Look at the date of my article just above: 31/03/2011. The date at which most of the administration/organization cut global economic forecasts due to the fuel crisis.


Anyway I have read much more optimistic articles begining 2008, just before one of the worst recession in the aviation field.

It has been almost half a century that aviation regularly comes back backward every 7/8 years, and we still dare to forecast for the next 20 years with a steady growth that we have during the best short period of times... It's pathetic.

Expired numbers for the next 20 years coming initially right from the aviation training/manufacture industry via a crystal ball.