What is wrong with everyone?
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and you?
...and you work as a ... PR???
just guessing by number of posts you did on PPRUNE...
(eeer is any of your posts positive? No? I'm not surprised...)
you like to talk don't you???
just guessing by number of posts you did on PPRUNE...
(eeer is any of your posts positive? No? I'm not surprised...)
you like to talk don't you???
Thread Starter
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Oh Uncle Wiggily, when will you learn that simply "believing" and "wishing on a shooting start" is not enough to achieve what you want! Even following that rainbow wont help. But i'm glad to see you're coming around to the idea (i can be sarcastic too 
) Remeber, it's supposed to be a discussion forum, not anger managment.
All you've done is come across as 'aggressive' without any evidence to any claims you've made. At least Mad Jock backs himself up. Perhaps you should get back in the foxy boxing ring before posting more.
) Remeber, it's supposed to be a discussion forum, not anger managment.All you've done is come across as 'aggressive' without any evidence to any claims you've made. At least Mad Jock backs himself up. Perhaps you should get back in the foxy boxing ring before posting more.
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"OK, you win Scoot 43. Everybody out there listen carefully.....you just need to believe in yourself and make it happen. Don't let the meanies in the world tell you that you can't do it! Follow that rainbow and wish upon the shooting star. You are special!"
I feel better already! In fact, I'm gonna apply to Virgin Atlantic right now! 47 hours under my belt, I'm positive Mr Branson would love to have me on board!
See what a little sugar coating has done to me? I've gone
nuts.
I feel better already! In fact, I'm gonna apply to Virgin Atlantic right now! 47 hours under my belt, I'm positive Mr Branson would love to have me on board!
See what a little sugar coating has done to me? I've gone
nuts.
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This is quite ridiculous.
Professional pilots?
Most assertive posters in this thread seem to have a viable point to make, no doubt, and I tend to agree with a little of everything the masses appear to see.
mad_jock is correct in his post regarding the (sometimes seemingly) verbal attacks you'll be subjected to throughout a flying career. It's all well and dandy for the lot on here to pipe up screaming, "I'd be disgusted and in this day and age nobody should be spoken to like that." Or, "As a pilot I'd never expect to be insulted or called names like THAT!"
Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. It happens, and I've been subjected to my fair share of negative verbal receipts (new PC term, maybe?) following what seemed at the time to be minor debacles, and I get on with most people. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I am a better pilot for it, and more critical of others' flying as a result. Get over it, or choose a different career, because you won't last long without building a thick skin.
However, under all this, is one of the most rewarding careers if you have what it takes to work hard enough and bear with the sh*t long enough to make anything out of it. I'm still in my prime years as far as flying goes, but already I feel I've come a long way - in some respects aviation really does make you work for success. Before I started flying, I never knew what it was like to come away from something (a bad flight) feeling so awful about myself and my performance. But you stick with it, and if you're any good you'll make it.
Anyway, back on topic...
Professional pilots?
Most assertive posters in this thread seem to have a viable point to make, no doubt, and I tend to agree with a little of everything the masses appear to see.
mad_jock is correct in his post regarding the (sometimes seemingly) verbal attacks you'll be subjected to throughout a flying career. It's all well and dandy for the lot on here to pipe up screaming, "I'd be disgusted and in this day and age nobody should be spoken to like that." Or, "As a pilot I'd never expect to be insulted or called names like THAT!"
Whether you like it or not is irrelevant. It happens, and I've been subjected to my fair share of negative verbal receipts (new PC term, maybe?) following what seemed at the time to be minor debacles, and I get on with most people. In fact, I'd go so far as to say I am a better pilot for it, and more critical of others' flying as a result. Get over it, or choose a different career, because you won't last long without building a thick skin.
However, under all this, is one of the most rewarding careers if you have what it takes to work hard enough and bear with the sh*t long enough to make anything out of it. I'm still in my prime years as far as flying goes, but already I feel I've come a long way - in some respects aviation really does make you work for success. Before I started flying, I never knew what it was like to come away from something (a bad flight) feeling so awful about myself and my performance. But you stick with it, and if you're any good you'll make it.
Anyway, back on topic...
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WWW and Mad Jock your posts are quite welcome as a find a lot of pilots/wannabes have very fragile Ego's and having old and wise Pelicans let us in on what flying the line is really like is needed. As for the economy any one out there who insists were not going to double dip....etc should let me have some of what their drinking !.........
whats your poison
VKwannabe
whats your poison
VKwannabe
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eeer is any of your posts positive
And I don't really go in for the train or not to train threads they come up fortnightly and its the same rehashed pish every time. My usual line is about the marketing spin of certain intergrated schools, training standards in intial flight training and answering questions of a procedural nature regarding logging of hours. And the occassion thread like this one when someone is talking ****e and it needs correcting before it infects some other poor sod.
Do a search in the wannabies forum and see for yourself.
Even after working in Oil yards from the age of 15 in Aberdeen and then into Engineering as a graduate, IT as a contractor with 10 years in the TA. The Airline Industry came as a bit of an eye opener when I first went online. The sexual comments which were batted backwards and forwards would have got you sacked in my previous employment. I learned more about the habits of homosexuals in 6 months than in the previous 30 years of my life, and to this day I could live without knowing what felching is. The blunt and to the point discussions of cockups I was used to from the TA. But it was the pure range of personalities you were exposed to. Then there is the backstabbing and politics, maybe a office enviroment will prepare you better for that.
Then when you move into the LHS the flying becomes the easy fun part. Then you have other pressures, commercial, operations, training, engineering, cutomer liason, security and the multitude of other "officials" who all think they have an input into how you run your flight.
You have to have thick skin and grow a pair otherwise you will end up in the loony bin, off sick with stomach ulcers or an Alcoholic.
Would I go back to Engineering or IT? Like hell I would this job is way to much fun.
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I ain't moaning, just stating facts. Please quote anything on this thread which is negative about my job (apart from learn what felching is 
)
Anyway the collective of a group pilots standing together is a Moan of pilots. Although I prefer a Whinge of Pilots personally.
To get the true banter of cutting remarks you will proberly have to go to the Eng Forum. Think there is a modual in thier licensing requirments.
So in summary we have B737,757,767,747 A320 J31/41 drivers and a poster who is in Charter ops I think, saying dry your eyes and deal with it petal you ain't seen nothing yet.
And we have some PA28,C172 drivers saying its our right to be treated with fluffy regard to our feelings and you have to respect our feelings. Even though we haven't the experence or have done anything to earn any respect.
If you want boundless fluffy sunshine blown out your backside with no connection to what happens in the real world go and play on the OAA forum. Apparently there is a pilot shortage coming soon and now has never been a better time to train.
I personally don't have a problem with people who want to train just now. I ignored the advice of pprune in 2001/2002.
The issue I have a bone to pick with is that the people who do have the experence and knowledge to give advise should temper that advice because of the feelings of a few wet behind the ears wannabies who have zero clue of what the jobs actually involves or what the normal working enviroment is.
)Anyway the collective of a group pilots standing together is a Moan of pilots. Although I prefer a Whinge of Pilots personally.
To get the true banter of cutting remarks you will proberly have to go to the Eng Forum. Think there is a modual in thier licensing requirments.
So in summary we have B737,757,767,747 A320 J31/41 drivers and a poster who is in Charter ops I think, saying dry your eyes and deal with it petal you ain't seen nothing yet.
And we have some PA28,C172 drivers saying its our right to be treated with fluffy regard to our feelings and you have to respect our feelings. Even though we haven't the experence or have done anything to earn any respect.
If you want boundless fluffy sunshine blown out your backside with no connection to what happens in the real world go and play on the OAA forum. Apparently there is a pilot shortage coming soon and now has never been a better time to train.
I personally don't have a problem with people who want to train just now. I ignored the advice of pprune in 2001/2002.
The issue I have a bone to pick with is that the people who do have the experence and knowledge to give advise should temper that advice because of the feelings of a few wet behind the ears wannabies who have zero clue of what the jobs actually involves or what the normal working enviroment is.
Our Celtic friends, WWW and mad_jock make very valid points.
Just to add some Avgas to the fire, I was visiting the CAA not so long ago and it happened to be the day that some ATPL exams were being held. Waiting for my host to collect me, it was very interesting to compare the types of people turning up to sit exams. From the polite, smart but casually dressed youngster to the scruffy "Oi, mate - where do I park" oik who was extremely rude to the reception staff.
I mentioned this to my host - he confided that well over half the number of fATPL holders were simply unemployable because of their interpersonal skills. They'd obtained licences and ratings through paying for them, but no-one had ever, it seems, assessed their likelihood of obtaining employment. So nowadays the bottom-feeders of the airline industry just sit and wait until someone suitable crosses their path.
After 11 Sep, demand for airline pilots fell. Even PPL applications fell. But the larger schools started turning fATPL holders into instructors to teach more fATPL hopefuls, who in turn perpetuated this obscene process.
I challenged one of the more well-known FIC providers about this, asking why they kept churning out FIs for which industry had no demand. "We can't stop people becoming FIs, if that's what they want to do", came the reply.
There is only one honest solution - airlines should be required to invest in training by selecting their trainee pilots, paying for their training and then recovering their costs over the first few years of the trainee's employment.
Paying for A320 / 737 type ratings privately is another nasty development which has gained strength in recent years; some of the 'unemployable' wannabes who pay for such things will simply become unemployable-with-debt wannabes.
mad_jock, if some of those 'debriefs' were given in the RAF, the 'debriefer' would be up in front of his boss PDQ.
Oh, and I understand that the 'Armageddon' story about the unfortunate gerbil turned out to be an urban myth....
Just to add some Avgas to the fire, I was visiting the CAA not so long ago and it happened to be the day that some ATPL exams were being held. Waiting for my host to collect me, it was very interesting to compare the types of people turning up to sit exams. From the polite, smart but casually dressed youngster to the scruffy "Oi, mate - where do I park" oik who was extremely rude to the reception staff.
I mentioned this to my host - he confided that well over half the number of fATPL holders were simply unemployable because of their interpersonal skills. They'd obtained licences and ratings through paying for them, but no-one had ever, it seems, assessed their likelihood of obtaining employment. So nowadays the bottom-feeders of the airline industry just sit and wait until someone suitable crosses their path.
After 11 Sep, demand for airline pilots fell. Even PPL applications fell. But the larger schools started turning fATPL holders into instructors to teach more fATPL hopefuls, who in turn perpetuated this obscene process.
I challenged one of the more well-known FIC providers about this, asking why they kept churning out FIs for which industry had no demand. "We can't stop people becoming FIs, if that's what they want to do", came the reply.
There is only one honest solution - airlines should be required to invest in training by selecting their trainee pilots, paying for their training and then recovering their costs over the first few years of the trainee's employment.
Paying for A320 / 737 type ratings privately is another nasty development which has gained strength in recent years; some of the 'unemployable' wannabes who pay for such things will simply become unemployable-with-debt wannabes.
mad_jock, if some of those 'debriefs' were given in the RAF, the 'debriefer' would be up in front of his boss PDQ.
Oh, and I understand that the 'Armageddon' story about the unfortunate gerbil turned out to be an urban myth....
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Mad Jock if you read my replies it was never about not accepting the harsh realities of what airline life is like, it was the sarcastic, overtly aggressive, immature tone adopted by so many 'regulars' on here that tends to undermine the professional nature of those that supposedly are.
Asking people what they do for a living and taking bets accordingly is taking the thread to a new low! This should have nothing to do with how you treat someone and clearly highlights that you have HUGE chip on your shoulder and secondly that you need to get out more.
Now, well done for making it so far in the industry, yes you may well have earned the respect of those around you but have some decency to keep these topics professional which is what i'm assuming you are..
Good luck to my fellow wannabe's or PA28 drivers as others would have you be known.
Regards
Concorde 14
Asking people what they do for a living and taking bets accordingly is taking the thread to a new low! This should have nothing to do with how you treat someone and clearly highlights that you have HUGE chip on your shoulder and secondly that you need to get out more.
Now, well done for making it so far in the industry, yes you may well have earned the respect of those around you but have some decency to keep these topics professional which is what i'm assuming you are..
Good luck to my fellow wannabe's or PA28 drivers as others would have you be known.
Regards
Concorde 14
Last edited by Concorde14; 25th Mar 2010 at 09:39.
Sorry but tone is something over which the author of a post has only a fleeting control. I guarantee that the comments that you read as being sarcastic and aggressive are being read by others who read them as being direct and honest.
Its a limitation of the medium I'm afraid.
WWW
Its a limitation of the medium I'm afraid.
WWW
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Scoot43, Concorde14
What you need to realise is that there is a vast army of very happy professional pilots who never feel the need to visit this type of forum. You will notice this is a rare visit for me. I love my job (jet captain) and am paid and treated well. The road to get here was very long and fraught with heartache and financial hardship but, for me, it was worth every penny and grey hair.
Certainly heed the warnings of the doom mongers but don't even bother to respond to their personal attacks and remember that there is another side to the story that is seldom presented on here. Good luck!
What you need to realise is that there is a vast army of very happy professional pilots who never feel the need to visit this type of forum. You will notice this is a rare visit for me. I love my job (jet captain) and am paid and treated well. The road to get here was very long and fraught with heartache and financial hardship but, for me, it was worth every penny and grey hair.
Certainly heed the warnings of the doom mongers but don't even bother to respond to their personal attacks and remember that there is another side to the story that is seldom presented on here. Good luck!
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WWW - Take your point, but my comments are not a reflection of this topic alone, rather, it is a reflection of a lot of the bile that is often posed throughout the wannabe forum.
Maltese Falcon - Thanks for the comments and refeshing post, glad to hear someone is enjoying themselves out/up there!
Regards,
Concorde 14.
Maltese Falcon - Thanks for the comments and refeshing post, glad to hear someone is enjoying themselves out/up there!
Regards,
Concorde 14.
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Moving substantially closer to losing it does not mean its a dead cert. In addition other countries are facing the same risk too, namely the US, Germany, Spain.
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No offence taken, but you would do well in reading the latest press release from Moody's:
"In its most recent survey it singled out the UK, USA, France, Germany and Spain as countries that will all have a particularly difficult time removing stimulus measures and bringing debt into line."
Regards
Concorde 14
"In its most recent survey it singled out the UK, USA, France, Germany and Spain as countries that will all have a particularly difficult time removing stimulus measures and bringing debt into line."
Regards
Concorde 14
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WWW and Mad Jock,
I really hope i get to fly with you one day, IF and WHEN, the industry picks up and i decide to train!
You 2 seem like the kind of guys that would make me a better pilot in the long run. You also seem like the kind of guys the would tell me where i up, give me the bollocking i deserve and a couple of hours later go to the bar and have a normal conversation. I hope i'm right?
Concorde,
Im a 23 yo wannabe and i'm not in the financial position to go to OAA on the integrated course. I want to be a pilot and i will do whatever i can to make that happen (possibly including removal of certain appendages if necessary) but i will do it with minimal debt hanging over me and with a career to fall back on for the 3-5 years it may take me to become a pilot. I don't take what people say on these forums seriously, they are posting for your own good. Think about what would happen if PPRUNE wasn't available for help and advice. In their own way WWW and Mad Jock are actually helping everyone, if you can't take criticism and a tongue lashing then don't become a Pilot and they will make people realise that, who otherwise may have gone and spent 100 grand to find it out too late.
I was at school in the last decade and the school i went to would never have dreamt of sugar coating the world, (i had my hand broken by my teacher for drumming on the table, some may say harsh but i never did it again!). The world is harsh and the truth sucks but GET OVER/ON WITH IT. You will either make it or you won't and if you cant take a little bit of criticism then move onto another career, maybe as a teacher? (Tongue in cheek - just before you think i am being rude).
I really hope i get to fly with you one day, IF and WHEN, the industry picks up and i decide to train!
You 2 seem like the kind of guys that would make me a better pilot in the long run. You also seem like the kind of guys the would tell me where i
up, give me the bollocking i deserve and a couple of hours later go to the bar and have a normal conversation. I hope i'm right?Concorde,
Im a 23 yo wannabe and i'm not in the financial position to go to OAA on the integrated course. I want to be a pilot and i will do whatever i can to make that happen (possibly including removal of certain appendages if necessary) but i will do it with minimal debt hanging over me and with a career to fall back on for the 3-5 years it may take me to become a pilot. I don't take what people say on these forums seriously, they are posting for your own good. Think about what would happen if PPRUNE wasn't available for help and advice. In their own way WWW and Mad Jock are actually helping everyone, if you can't take criticism and a tongue lashing then don't become a Pilot and they will make people realise that, who otherwise may have gone and spent 100 grand to find it out too late.
I was at school in the last decade and the school i went to would never have dreamt of sugar coating the world, (i had my hand broken by my teacher for drumming on the table, some may say harsh but i never did it again!). The world is harsh and the truth sucks but GET OVER/ON WITH IT. You will either make it or you won't and if you cant take a little bit of criticism then move onto another career, maybe as a teacher? (Tongue in cheek - just before you think i am being rude).
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Everybody out there listen carefully.....you just need to believe in yourself and make it happen. Don't let the meanies in the world tell you that you can't do it! Follow that rainbow and wish upon the shooting star. You are special!
**Wishes upon the shooting star for a visit from Cheryl Cole
**I fully agree with BEagle, the airline industry is going to
! It's no longer the best of the best entering the profession, if you can afford it then you'll probably land a slave job with one of the low cost airlines and be up to your neck in debt. Why anyone would want to take on so much debt in an industry that is well known to be unstable goes beyond me.
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To bring two posts together, firstly, to go back to a great point BEagle made:
& then,
And then to go back to Mad Jocks comments of:
What percentage of the "nice" and personable candidates are there posting here? Or to put it another way... How many of the "nice" and employable people are likely to get jobs?
Muddy Boots
It was very interesting to compare the types of people turning up to sit exams. From the polite, smart but casually dressed youngster to the scruffy "Oi, mate - where do I park" oik who was extremely rude to the reception staff.
They'd obtained licences and ratings through paying for them, but no-one had ever, it seems, assessed their likelihood of obtaining employment.
To be honest less than 10% of the people posting on wannbies will ever actually fly a multicrew aircraft. Out of that I reckon its going to less than 5% who actually make a career out of it these days.
Muddy Boots
