Australia - FLIGHT TRAINING OPTIONS
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Australia - FLIGHT TRAINING OPTIONS
Greetings!
I have been looking into USA flight schools lately and planning to shift my search into Australia flight schools. I will list some of the factors that I have been thinking where I am looking in a flight school:
1. Late model fleet (Cessna or Diamond), if possible with glass cockpit
2. Great instructors
3. Weather
4. Balanced student to instructor ratio
I am looking into the following schools:
1. Sydney Flight Training Centre
2. Airborne Aviation
Can anyone give more insights in training in Australia and for the choices I have listed?
Thanks guys!
I have been looking into USA flight schools lately and planning to shift my search into Australia flight schools. I will list some of the factors that I have been thinking where I am looking in a flight school:
1. Late model fleet (Cessna or Diamond), if possible with glass cockpit
2. Great instructors
3. Weather
4. Balanced student to instructor ratio
I am looking into the following schools:
1. Sydney Flight Training Centre
2. Airborne Aviation
Can anyone give more insights in training in Australia and for the choices I have listed?
Thanks guys!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Hi,
You'll get a better response over on the Dununda, Godzone and the Pacific Islands forum.
I believe SFTC has gone bankrupt.
Good luck
You'll get a better response over on the Dununda, Godzone and the Pacific Islands forum.
I believe SFTC has gone bankrupt.
Good luck
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Airborne aviation is a good school. Stay away from Sydney Bankstown. There are good schools in Mebourne and Perth. I would contact the Western Australian Aero Club in Perth which runs a commercial flying school.
2. Great instructors
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WAAC
I trained at WAAC in Perth. The instructors are excellent and I would recommend them. I studied for a JAA licence though but Im sure their CASA guys are top notch. From what I remember of the weather, it was generally good although wind was an issue from time to time. The only downside was that you dont get much RT experience. While YPJT is a busy airport, once you leave the CTR your on your own. You can go to 123.45 and get a chat going if your lucky but thats about it.
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glass cockpits?
hi,
kinda in line with this, would it be better to get early experience in an analogue cockpit rather than glass. how's the transition, which is more benficial?
also, by bankstown, do you mean Basair? no top schools in the sydney area?
Many Thanks!
kinda in line with this, would it be better to get early experience in an analogue cockpit rather than glass. how's the transition, which is more benficial?
also, by bankstown, do you mean Basair? no top schools in the sydney area?
Many Thanks!
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Curtis Aviation at Camden south west of Sydney is a great school with a relaxed atmosphere. Several C182's with either glass cockpits or the standard six dials. Much less traffic than Bankstown and not much further away from Sydney.
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Do NOT go to Australian Wings Academy. Just ask any ex or current students why and you'll get about a million reasons. (One reason for every dollar that they will over-charge you!)
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Hi,
Could you elaborate more on what's wrong with BasAir?
I flew about 20 hours with them - was OK. Bit tired 172s, but still coming to land in one piece. As for Bankstown being busy - that's actually a bonus. What would one do in busy airspace in US if not trained appropriately?
As for weather - still better than in Europe or Seattle, especially during the so-called down-under winter months :-)
Could you elaborate more on what's wrong with BasAir?
I flew about 20 hours with them - was OK. Bit tired 172s, but still coming to land in one piece. As for Bankstown being busy - that's actually a bonus. What would one do in busy airspace in US if not trained appropriately?
As for weather - still better than in Europe or Seattle, especially during the so-called down-under winter months :-)
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Actually with regards to Australian Wings Academy I recommend to find out for yourself, i am an ex student and I never had any issues what so ever. Planes are good, most of the instructors are good and all up you will come out of there well equipped.
I believe there are a few students around that have chips on their shoulders because they didn't have the ability/motivation to complete the course and then didn't like it when the school charged them extra money to cover costs.
However im sure they have their faults at Australian Wings, what you need to understand is that no school is perfect there will always be positives and negatives and its about going somewhere where you are happy with what you get, do not base your decision on what some tool on prrune tells you.
Just had to add my two cents !!
I believe there are a few students around that have chips on their shoulders because they didn't have the ability/motivation to complete the course and then didn't like it when the school charged them extra money to cover costs.
However im sure they have their faults at Australian Wings, what you need to understand is that no school is perfect there will always be positives and negatives and its about going somewhere where you are happy with what you get, do not base your decision on what some tool on prrune tells you.
Just had to add my two cents !!
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Bankstown busy? I dont think so.
Bankstown is not busy anymore. With the demise of both SFTC and Aerospace, there isnt much happening. Basair have been pretty quiet too. Hopefully things improve.
You do hear though, that the first thing to suffer in a recession is aviation. The last thing after a recession to pick up, is aviation..
Bankstown = Ghosttown.
All I can say is, all the instructors moping around Bankstown, get out of your comfort zone, and move interstate for a while.
It worked for me.
You do hear though, that the first thing to suffer in a recession is aviation. The last thing after a recession to pick up, is aviation..
Bankstown = Ghosttown.
All I can say is, all the instructors moping around Bankstown, get out of your comfort zone, and move interstate for a while.
It worked for me.
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Forget about Australian Wings Academy. All you have to do is ask how much they charge for an instrument rating and you will realise why they are the laughing stock of other flying schools.
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I agree with ozvandriver NOT to even look at Australian wings academy, building and aircraft looks nice which is their biggest selling point so you can see why most international students attend the school, most i would say or pretty much all the LOCALS have left because of their hidden fees.
Their level of instructors have dropped dramatically and instructors are very careless with the students and just talk a lot of rubbish behind their back which could end up in a law suit if things were said to the wrong students, they aren't there to teach they are there to take you for a joy ride and take all your hours away from you causing you to pay extra for overruns costing up to and maybe more than $8000+
COURSE FEES: $95,000
INSTRUMENT RATING: $24,000 (beech-craft duchess)
INSTRUCTOR RATING: $19,000+
(Excluding hidden costs)
The management at the start will be all nice to you until that money of your's is in their account, then your nothing to them, training standards manager is there just to sit on his computer all day and talk a whole lot of crap to you and promises everything and doesn't go through with it as well lacks in aviation skills whom he only has a PRIVATE PILOTS licence but says he has a MECIR due to the fact he doesn't know anything about IFR, so what advice can someone with a PPL give you... just as much as a GFPT student. I'd say +90% of the students have problems with this school including the Air Asia cadets but are too scared to have their say about the school and what they are doing to them. If you don't believe me make sure you go in and pull a FEW students aside and speak to them personally without the school seeing and YOU pick the students not the school picking one for you.
As aviator had quoted saying how some students have been charged extra money we aren't talking about $500 or so we are talking about $10000+ so wouldn't you complain if you had been charged that, guess you have money pouring out of your C...
Their level of instructors have dropped dramatically and instructors are very careless with the students and just talk a lot of rubbish behind their back which could end up in a law suit if things were said to the wrong students, they aren't there to teach they are there to take you for a joy ride and take all your hours away from you causing you to pay extra for overruns costing up to and maybe more than $8000+
COURSE FEES: $95,000
INSTRUMENT RATING: $24,000 (beech-craft duchess)
INSTRUCTOR RATING: $19,000+
(Excluding hidden costs)
The management at the start will be all nice to you until that money of your's is in their account, then your nothing to them, training standards manager is there just to sit on his computer all day and talk a whole lot of crap to you and promises everything and doesn't go through with it as well lacks in aviation skills whom he only has a PRIVATE PILOTS licence but says he has a MECIR due to the fact he doesn't know anything about IFR, so what advice can someone with a PPL give you... just as much as a GFPT student. I'd say +90% of the students have problems with this school including the Air Asia cadets but are too scared to have their say about the school and what they are doing to them. If you don't believe me make sure you go in and pull a FEW students aside and speak to them personally without the school seeing and YOU pick the students not the school picking one for you.
As aviator had quoted saying how some students have been charged extra money we aren't talking about $500 or so we are talking about $10000+ so wouldn't you complain if you had been charged that, guess you have money pouring out of your C...
Last edited by mohammad; 25th Mar 2010 at 05:03.
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Agree with mohammed and van
Hello Everyone
I cant stress this enough!...do not go to AWA! i will lay down the facts at AWA to prove Aviator82 is wrong. I still go to AWA so i know the facts better than anyone.
The following points are based on facts...and not based on emotions (unlike what aviator82 states):
1) AWA has a contract with Air Asia (for now anyways). Who do you think is going to get priority when it comes to flight bookings, exams, etc?...definitly not the aussie thats for sure!
Example for you (and once again fact)...Air Asia recieves transporation from Gold Coast airport to Brisbane Archerfield airport, to write their CPL exams...thats interesting because all the self funded students dont recieve that same service. Lucky for me I have my own car so I was able to get there and back...however a lot of the other self funded internationals could not do so!.....that doesnt seem fair does it?
2) The school does not have enough classrooms, and aircraft to support both Air Asia cadets as well as self funded students. Every week / month the school is changing there ways on how they book flights..one minute they divded the instructors and students into blocked "colour" groups...next minute the training standards manager (god thats a mouthfull)...has to book all the flights! Its funny the school cant organize this mess yet they are still bringing in new intakes...both air asia and self funded...does this make any sense to you?
3) Accounting at that school is appauling! Infact appauling is too nice of a word to describe it. When you attend that school or if you do...request pay as you go. Do not fall for the trap I did and pay in those "installments". In the end it works out to be cheaper as pay as you go. I would get Dean..the guy who is incharge of the books (who actually isnt a qualified accountant)...fact...will come up to you and hand you a piece of paper with lets say $10,495 on it..with no detail on the statement of what you have actually done! For all i know he could have picked a number out of his a**!...The scary thing is I have found him wrong on a number of occasions. First time it was 4,000 k over...second was 6,000 k. All of my mates at that school had similar problems with the accounting....FACT aviator82...fact!
4) A few of the students got together at this school and went to Current Affair (for you internationals reading this..its a TV show that investigates companys or people that do things unethical.) Not only does Current Affair know what is going on, Australian Department of Education have had numerous cases sent to them about AWA unfair trading. 8 Students have sent documentation to them and are now being investigated!
In conclusion,
It is evident that AWA is a disaterious school! it has problem after problem..
AWA has gotten rid of the good instructors and have kept the louzy ones!
AWA can never say they finish students in 12 months from 0 time to IFR rated...no one has done that in ages!!!! my buddy who recently finsihed was there for 15 months...another for 20 months...and 16 months....and these people finsihed before air asia batch started!
Just to show you how childlish AWA is...Aviator82...is an employee at AWA....just shows you how desperate they are, and trying to protect their dying image as a flight school provider
I hope I have cleared all THE FACTS
Cheers
Ps go to air gold coast (for domestic students)...and melbourne for internationals...like where I am going next week!
I cant stress this enough!...do not go to AWA! i will lay down the facts at AWA to prove Aviator82 is wrong. I still go to AWA so i know the facts better than anyone.
The following points are based on facts...and not based on emotions (unlike what aviator82 states):
1) AWA has a contract with Air Asia (for now anyways). Who do you think is going to get priority when it comes to flight bookings, exams, etc?...definitly not the aussie thats for sure!
Example for you (and once again fact)...Air Asia recieves transporation from Gold Coast airport to Brisbane Archerfield airport, to write their CPL exams...thats interesting because all the self funded students dont recieve that same service. Lucky for me I have my own car so I was able to get there and back...however a lot of the other self funded internationals could not do so!.....that doesnt seem fair does it?
2) The school does not have enough classrooms, and aircraft to support both Air Asia cadets as well as self funded students. Every week / month the school is changing there ways on how they book flights..one minute they divded the instructors and students into blocked "colour" groups...next minute the training standards manager (god thats a mouthfull)...has to book all the flights! Its funny the school cant organize this mess yet they are still bringing in new intakes...both air asia and self funded...does this make any sense to you?
3) Accounting at that school is appauling! Infact appauling is too nice of a word to describe it. When you attend that school or if you do...request pay as you go. Do not fall for the trap I did and pay in those "installments". In the end it works out to be cheaper as pay as you go. I would get Dean..the guy who is incharge of the books (who actually isnt a qualified accountant)...fact...will come up to you and hand you a piece of paper with lets say $10,495 on it..with no detail on the statement of what you have actually done! For all i know he could have picked a number out of his a**!...The scary thing is I have found him wrong on a number of occasions. First time it was 4,000 k over...second was 6,000 k. All of my mates at that school had similar problems with the accounting....FACT aviator82...fact!
4) A few of the students got together at this school and went to Current Affair (for you internationals reading this..its a TV show that investigates companys or people that do things unethical.) Not only does Current Affair know what is going on, Australian Department of Education have had numerous cases sent to them about AWA unfair trading. 8 Students have sent documentation to them and are now being investigated!
In conclusion,
It is evident that AWA is a disaterious school! it has problem after problem..
AWA has gotten rid of the good instructors and have kept the louzy ones!
AWA can never say they finish students in 12 months from 0 time to IFR rated...no one has done that in ages!!!! my buddy who recently finsihed was there for 15 months...another for 20 months...and 16 months....and these people finsihed before air asia batch started!
Just to show you how childlish AWA is...Aviator82...is an employee at AWA....just shows you how desperate they are, and trying to protect their dying image as a flight school provider
I hope I have cleared all THE FACTS
Cheers
Ps go to air gold coast (for domestic students)...and melbourne for internationals...like where I am going next week!
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Flying Schools in South East Queensland
Having looked at a few schools and experiencing 2 of them, i can now comment and hopefully assist people in making a choice.
Redcliffe Aero club is good with some experienced instructors and good aerobatics and tail wheel training. They are also reasonably priced and offer value for money.
Chopper line is a good alternative for International students. They currently teach all the Oman police helicopter pilots, so they are used to cadets and are professional. My firends tell me IREX isnt that good.
All the comments written about Australian Wings Academy (AWA) are true -
Including some of their work practices such as charging overuns (extra flights) at todays prices when you may have flown the actual flight 8 months ago. So you either pay or leave - I left as have many others have. One of my friends who has now left, was also charged a $1000.00 admin fee and was told that was what it cost to add up his bill !@#. There is a reason Oman students do not go there anymore and Air Asia cadets are more than 3 months behind - you cannot blame every delay on weather. I am sure you will see more comments like these as people leave.
If you are reading this make sure you learn from our mistakes.
Research the school and think, that every person when they have their sales hat on is their to get you in the door and get money from you. Also remember when dealing with agents overseas that they are being paid by the flying schools to get you in. Agents will also tell you that you will be guaranteed a job, when in fact you won't have a chance.
Most Indian students will agree there is no jobs for us here for charter or as i was promised, an instructor job.
Good luck with choosing a school.
Redcliffe Aero club is good with some experienced instructors and good aerobatics and tail wheel training. They are also reasonably priced and offer value for money.
Chopper line is a good alternative for International students. They currently teach all the Oman police helicopter pilots, so they are used to cadets and are professional. My firends tell me IREX isnt that good.
All the comments written about Australian Wings Academy (AWA) are true -
Including some of their work practices such as charging overuns (extra flights) at todays prices when you may have flown the actual flight 8 months ago. So you either pay or leave - I left as have many others have. One of my friends who has now left, was also charged a $1000.00 admin fee and was told that was what it cost to add up his bill !@#. There is a reason Oman students do not go there anymore and Air Asia cadets are more than 3 months behind - you cannot blame every delay on weather. I am sure you will see more comments like these as people leave.
If you are reading this make sure you learn from our mistakes.
Research the school and think, that every person when they have their sales hat on is their to get you in the door and get money from you. Also remember when dealing with agents overseas that they are being paid by the flying schools to get you in. Agents will also tell you that you will be guaranteed a job, when in fact you won't have a chance.
Most Indian students will agree there is no jobs for us here for charter or as i was promised, an instructor job.
Good luck with choosing a school.
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Just to clear the record I am most definately not an employee of AWA, just an ex student who felt the need to stand up for the school where I received a good standard of training. Pilot1991 you are entitled to your opinion but don't start attacking me because I happen to have a different one.
And do you not just think the school would have this trash removed, rather than trying to defend themselves by posting on the net. I don't know what your issues are with AWA but they must have really annoyed you.
And do you not just think the school would have this trash removed, rather than trying to defend themselves by posting on the net. I don't know what your issues are with AWA but they must have really annoyed you.
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No really I am not AWA management, I finished my course 12 months ago and it took me 17 months from zero to MECIR. A small delay due to some bad weather. IF what has been said is true I suggest students check their contracts. Mine stated that should I still be there 6 months longer than I was supposed to be I would be charged an additional $500.00 per 6 month period of enrollment and that such fees would be charged on the first day of that 6 month period. And that they reserved the right to pass on fee increases where fuel increases above $1.45 and Air Services increase more than 5%.
Course fees cover an amount of flying hours slightly higher than the minimum required for licence + rating issue, although I had to say it was very hard to get through with out going over due mainly to airspace and traffic (Busy class C airspace). In all I was charged around $2000 for over runs which consisted of mainly 6 hours pre GFPT, this period is where it was hardest to keep to the designated hours once into PPL and CPL it was no problem at all.
Flying costs money, if it takes you 90 hours
(no names) or 70 hours (no names) to GFPT instead of 30 don't be surprised when you get a large bill for overuns.
Like I said check your contract If they are trying to break that contract then you have a case, if not my opinion is fair enough if you have been there for 2, 3 or more years as I am fully aware (through a friend who happens to be there now) some students (who in his opinion should not be allowed anywhere near an aircraft) have been. Maybe they should have had higher standards for entry on to the course as this is where I beleive the problem lies, there are people who not through a lack of trying just are not up to the course and to be fair they were told fairly early on (again from what I have been told) that the school thought they would struggle but they chose to blindly carry on anyway (racking up huge bills in the process).
I will not be commenting any further I do not wish to get involved with an argument which has nothing to do with me, I just wanted people to know that personally my experience was very good, but perhaps things have changed I really not know.
Course fees cover an amount of flying hours slightly higher than the minimum required for licence + rating issue, although I had to say it was very hard to get through with out going over due mainly to airspace and traffic (Busy class C airspace). In all I was charged around $2000 for over runs which consisted of mainly 6 hours pre GFPT, this period is where it was hardest to keep to the designated hours once into PPL and CPL it was no problem at all.
Flying costs money, if it takes you 90 hours
(no names) or 70 hours (no names) to GFPT instead of 30 don't be surprised when you get a large bill for overuns.Like I said check your contract If they are trying to break that contract then you have a case, if not my opinion is fair enough if you have been there for 2, 3 or more years as I am fully aware (through a friend who happens to be there now) some students (who in his opinion should not be allowed anywhere near an aircraft) have been. Maybe they should have had higher standards for entry on to the course as this is where I beleive the problem lies, there are people who not through a lack of trying just are not up to the course and to be fair they were told fairly early on (again from what I have been told) that the school thought they would struggle but they chose to blindly carry on anyway (racking up huge bills in the process).
I will not be commenting any further I do not wish to get involved with an argument which has nothing to do with me, I just wanted people to know that personally my experience was very good, but perhaps things have changed I really not know.