Affording training /lower class.
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No but seriously, i'd fly for free.
If you go down this route, you are going to discover very quickly that even though airline flying is a good job, it is just that: a job. It is a way to make money so that you can enjoy a lifestyle that you want. The novelty will VERY quickly wear off when you are in ludicrous amounts of debt (which is unobtainable at the moment anyway) and you return from a day's work to your bedsit with no money to buy decent food, let alone engage in anything that might be described as "a life".
Your comment that The Human Rights Act guarantees your right to bankruptcy protection is one of the funniest, and naive comments I've read on here in a long time. Do you realise that banks will not lend you the money required to fund an integrated course, unless they obtain some form of security, in the form of a charge over property (usually a house)? Therefore, unless you have a family member who is prepared to risk their house so that you can "work for free" (and you say in your first post that you don't), you WILL NOT get funding for the full amount of the course fees for an integrated course. Even assuming that someone was idiotic enough to agree to offer up a property as security so you could get a loan, if you were to default on that loan (because you have no money as you're working for free), ultimately the bank can take possession of said property and sell it, releasing equity to satisfy your debt. Nothing in any section of The Human Rights Act to stop that happening.
You have to face the simple facts: since HSBC stopped giving unsecured loans for people on the Wings scheme at CTC, it has become impossible to do an integrated course unless you have significant amounts of cash, or generous parents prepared to risk a significant amount of the equity in their property.
To sum up, Crescentpirate, you have a wholly unrealistic take on how this all works. Your only option given your current circumstances is to start down the modular route, taking your time and flying when you can afford it.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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First of all, what would one define 'lower class' as?
I started training for my PPL at 14, and got it at 17. It was paid for through inheritance from my grandmother, a year stacking shelves and saving at Sainsburys (something I still do now to pay for flying and having a bit of fun at the weekend) and a fair amount from my parents. All this on top of school/college, its been a busy few years, but I can gladly say I've earnt my PPL.
I have absolutely no plans to put my parents in financial risk to fund my commercial training. They will be paying for some of it ,but so will I. I'll be flying modular, something I always planned to do, and will be able to work and fly at the same time (most likely not at sainsburys mind you, I'm at the end of my tether)
Financially, short term, it would be alot easier for me to take a loan out, and go integrated in september next year straight out of college. But I hope this way I'll be free of significant debt, and still enjoy myself in the process!!
Cheers!
I started training for my PPL at 14, and got it at 17. It was paid for through inheritance from my grandmother, a year stacking shelves and saving at Sainsburys (something I still do now to pay for flying and having a bit of fun at the weekend) and a fair amount from my parents. All this on top of school/college, its been a busy few years, but I can gladly say I've earnt my PPL.
I have absolutely no plans to put my parents in financial risk to fund my commercial training. They will be paying for some of it ,but so will I. I'll be flying modular, something I always planned to do, and will be able to work and fly at the same time (most likely not at sainsburys mind you, I'm at the end of my tether)
Financially, short term, it would be alot easier for me to take a loan out, and go integrated in september next year straight out of college. But I hope this way I'll be free of significant debt, and still enjoy myself in the process!!
Cheers!
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First of all, what would one define 'lower class' as?
I'd fly for free if i could, work part-time at a job to allow me food and things necessasary to survive
In short normal working people cannot afford to work for free, we have outgoings and these will not go away because we are performing some kind of vanity by pretending to be a professional and paying to fly a jet. So no you won't find me working for free, even Vicars get paid to work!
But I hope this way I'll be free of significant debt, and still enjoy myself in the process!!
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Originally Posted by Crescentpirate
I'd fly for free if i could.....
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Put1992 you are very lucky to be in such a position, I wish my parents could pay for part of my modular training!
The reason people are prepared to work for free and pay for hours etc is that we are all playing one big end game trying to become the £100,000 per year BA Captain with two kids that go to private school a trophy wife and a pony.
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hi buddy, i wouldnt say im in the same position as you but it is similar. Im 20, and know how your feel about the age situation. yes your young but you feel as though you should have some sort of vocation or trade to your name. I feel the same. your mates are all off at uni or travelling, bettering themselves in some way and your not. Dont worry. the same thought would keep me awake for hours. My advice would be to think finish your a levels, if the unlikley happpens and you loose your medical, you have a good cushioning to fall back on. after that save some money in a full time job that you enjoy. one which gives you a trade and one which you can grow into. for example tree surgery. you may not find this helpful but it cant hurt.
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All that stuff about getting an unsecured loan,doing the training and declaring themselves bankrupt. This guy doesn't deserve to be let loose behind the stick of a C150 let alone anything else.
TBH I don't think any airline would hire someone declared bankrupt or with CCJ's associated to them.
TBH I don't think any airline would hire someone declared bankrupt or with CCJ's associated to them.
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The reason people are prepared to work for free and pay for hours etc is that we are all playing one big end game trying to become the £100,000 per year BA Captain with two kids that go to private school a trophy wife and a pony.
That is not my dream. Best of luck if you want that.
Amen to that
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Hi,
I can give you some guidelines about getting into flight training.
I' m a PPL and I' ve done my ATPLs but didn' t sit the exams yet.
I' ve started modular in late 2006, done my PPL by summer 2007. ATPL's distance learning from September '07 to July '08.
In 2008 I had to go to the U.S. for several months on hour building, but had to quit my job to do that.
About the job supporting my training:
I made no more than 1200 pounds after tax but living at home, it was sufficient to support my flight training so far.
Since March 2009 I' m on social benefits, unable to find a suitable job and I have attended a 1 year state-sponsored aircraft technician course, but despite my excellent results and hard work, I find myself unable to find the 2 year apprenticeship required to get a mechanic' s license.
I have stocked up quite some savings as I get over 900 euro of benefits per month.
If you' ve got a job, you can get a loan, but one can easily lose 1000 euro per year on interests, so that's 1 month of hard work to feed the bank.
You can' t get loans for integrated unless they're backed by something, and when I was 19 I was eager to do it quickly but that's definitely not the way to do it unless you want to risk your family house. If you don't have a house or other property, forget about getting a 50K loan, banks are not stupid.
3 years ago Oxford invited me to the Netjets cadets scheme and it was very tempting but I'm happy I didn' t go: the cadets are grounded jobless and facing huge loan repayments, those who got hired saw their salaries cut by over 30%, making repayments tight.
One part of me feels like the world is getting ahead of me and that I will be left behind. That feeling is pure imagination as no one is getting any jobs out there, and that is a true and sad fact. People are not randomly crying about their misery, the misery is real and it is even downplayed: people usually don't like to brag about their misery.
I won' t get back into the game until we read "airlines desperate for pilots" in the press. "Airlines hiring again" is not good enough for me because that means that I will still be competing with guys who have been laid off, meaning 0-1% chance for me and other unexperienced CPL' s.
I have no intention of resuming my training until at least 2012, more probably 2013 because the industry is in really really bad shape. I' m saving money so that when the industry unleashes and becomes desperate, I will get back into the game.
I didn' t pass the ATPL theory exams because they expire, therefore being a waste of money.
Starting September 2010 I will be enrolling a university aircraft design course and head into aerospace design, hopefully while maintaining social benefits.
After that, I will aim to enter Airbus' graduate course and try to get a position as an aircraft design engineer.
If I get there, I will chose between continuing in well-paid aerospace and owning my own little aircraft to fly when I want, where I want, with my future wife and kids; or finish my ATPL and fly for a not well-paying airline, while living a terrible family life.
Once you get closer into aviation, it suddenly isn' t as cool as you thought that it would be.
It' s cool to be able to tell your friends that you' re training to become a pilot, but the misery that you' d have to cope with, for those little moments of fame is unbearable.
I' m 23 and I live in mainland Europe
I can give you some guidelines about getting into flight training.
I' m a PPL and I' ve done my ATPLs but didn' t sit the exams yet.
I' ve started modular in late 2006, done my PPL by summer 2007. ATPL's distance learning from September '07 to July '08.
In 2008 I had to go to the U.S. for several months on hour building, but had to quit my job to do that.
About the job supporting my training:
I made no more than 1200 pounds after tax but living at home, it was sufficient to support my flight training so far.
Since March 2009 I' m on social benefits, unable to find a suitable job and I have attended a 1 year state-sponsored aircraft technician course, but despite my excellent results and hard work, I find myself unable to find the 2 year apprenticeship required to get a mechanic' s license.
I have stocked up quite some savings as I get over 900 euro of benefits per month.
If you' ve got a job, you can get a loan, but one can easily lose 1000 euro per year on interests, so that's 1 month of hard work to feed the bank.
You can' t get loans for integrated unless they're backed by something, and when I was 19 I was eager to do it quickly but that's definitely not the way to do it unless you want to risk your family house. If you don't have a house or other property, forget about getting a 50K loan, banks are not stupid.
3 years ago Oxford invited me to the Netjets cadets scheme and it was very tempting but I'm happy I didn' t go: the cadets are grounded jobless and facing huge loan repayments, those who got hired saw their salaries cut by over 30%, making repayments tight.
One part of me feels like the world is getting ahead of me and that I will be left behind. That feeling is pure imagination as no one is getting any jobs out there, and that is a true and sad fact. People are not randomly crying about their misery, the misery is real and it is even downplayed: people usually don't like to brag about their misery.
I won' t get back into the game until we read "airlines desperate for pilots" in the press. "Airlines hiring again" is not good enough for me because that means that I will still be competing with guys who have been laid off, meaning 0-1% chance for me and other unexperienced CPL' s.
I have no intention of resuming my training until at least 2012, more probably 2013 because the industry is in really really bad shape. I' m saving money so that when the industry unleashes and becomes desperate, I will get back into the game.
I didn' t pass the ATPL theory exams because they expire, therefore being a waste of money.
Starting September 2010 I will be enrolling a university aircraft design course and head into aerospace design, hopefully while maintaining social benefits.
After that, I will aim to enter Airbus' graduate course and try to get a position as an aircraft design engineer.
If I get there, I will chose between continuing in well-paid aerospace and owning my own little aircraft to fly when I want, where I want, with my future wife and kids; or finish my ATPL and fly for a not well-paying airline, while living a terrible family life.
Once you get closer into aviation, it suddenly isn' t as cool as you thought that it would be.
It' s cool to be able to tell your friends that you' re training to become a pilot, but the misery that you' d have to cope with, for those little moments of fame is unbearable.
I' m 23 and I live in mainland Europe
Join Date: Sep 2006
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I made no more than 1200 pounds after tax but living at home, it was sufficient to support my flight training so far.
I won' t get back into the game until we read "airlines desperate for pilots" in the press. "Airlines hiring again" is not good enough for me because that means that I will still be competing with guys who have been laid off, meaning 0-1% chance for me and other unexperienced CPL' s.
