How does a US CPL look in your CV?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How does a US CPL look in your CV?
Evening all,
I wonder if i could ask for some thoughts on the standing within the industry of a US issued CPL.
Im half way through the ATPL writtens (in the uk) and am considering doing the CPL in America followed by the IR back in the UK. This is mainly to save money as i have estimated the saving with my chosen schools (all in) to be around £4k by doing it in the US. However i have received conflicting advice on the quality of a US CPL...
In short i would like to hear from those who have followed a similar path to me and weather a US issued CPL was frowned upon or regarded equally when it came to jobs?
Not that i dont appreciate all the replys but i would appreciate if you could hold fire if you are just giving your 'two bobs' worth!
Many thanks in advance
I wonder if i could ask for some thoughts on the standing within the industry of a US issued CPL.
Im half way through the ATPL writtens (in the uk) and am considering doing the CPL in America followed by the IR back in the UK. This is mainly to save money as i have estimated the saving with my chosen schools (all in) to be around £4k by doing it in the US. However i have received conflicting advice on the quality of a US CPL...
In short i would like to hear from those who have followed a similar path to me and weather a US issued CPL was frowned upon or regarded equally when it came to jobs?
Not that i dont appreciate all the replys but i would appreciate if you could hold fire if you are just giving your 'two bobs' worth!
Many thanks in advance
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: EGYD
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did my JAA CPL in the USA.
Also did part of my JAA IR training there; the school I trained at had UK CAA Approval to do the first 30 hours in the USA then the remaining 20 in the UK.
First time, first series passes in both.
Never had a problem getting invited for airline interviews.
I would recommend training at a school with JAA flight instructors though, rather than the ones which use FAA instructors. Seems to make a huge difference in approach and attitude etc, the FAA instructors just didn't seem to have an interest in it; and therefore didn't train to nearly the same standard.
Good luck.
Also did part of my JAA IR training there; the school I trained at had UK CAA Approval to do the first 30 hours in the USA then the remaining 20 in the UK.
First time, first series passes in both.
Never had a problem getting invited for airline interviews.
I would recommend training at a school with JAA flight instructors though, rather than the ones which use FAA instructors. Seems to make a huge difference in approach and attitude etc, the FAA instructors just didn't seem to have an interest in it; and therefore didn't train to nearly the same standard.
Good luck.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Rome,Italy
Age: 36
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I will do FAA training in Texas and than go to UK to convert CPL,IR and do MCC. I save a lot of money.
I will finish with 300hrs, FAA, JAA licenses
thats all @ 36k€!
byebye
I will finish with 300hrs, FAA, JAA licenses
thats all @ 36k€!
byebye
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just to Echo BG's post, I and 2 other friends did our CPL in the states, some of the IR there as well. I drive a Boeing 737 classic and NG, one of the others a Boeing 757 and the third a BAe 146.
No problems in interviews for any of us.
No problems in interviews for any of us.
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: up a gumtree
Age: 53
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats probably true when the job market was good, but now and for the next few years until the good times are back any training outwith the UK will be looked on poorly when applying for a job in the UK.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: BHX-MAN-EMA
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you get the FAA CPL as part of a JAA fATPL course, it will not matter to a future employer.
But as has been said on this forum, it is best to use a maximum of 2 flight training providers.
You will find the FAA ratings easier to obtain, and in some countries preferred to JAA ratings.
Getting both ATP and fATPL ratings may in the future enhance your job prospects, but that might be in the distant future when the market improves.
Should you live in Europe and intend to remain there then go for the JAA fATPL, without it you will not get a job.
But as has been said on this forum, it is best to use a maximum of 2 flight training providers.
You will find the FAA ratings easier to obtain, and in some countries preferred to JAA ratings.
Getting both ATP and fATPL ratings may in the future enhance your job prospects, but that might be in the distant future when the market improves.
Should you live in Europe and intend to remain there then go for the JAA fATPL, without it you will not get a job.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: EGYD
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did a uk cpl but I met a couple of guys at an interview I was at and they had U.S. JAA cpls. Standard expected is a lot higher in the uk because I know a guy that started his cpl in florida and couldnt get an examiner so he came over to the uk to do the test-------he then found out what the uk cpl skills test was like with CAA staff examiners and very swiftly got a plane back to florida to test when they eventually got an examiner. I have heard that some instrument ratings gained in spain or greece are frowned upon. Onc the instument rating is done in the uk it shouldnt make a difference where you do your JAA cpl. The instrument rating is the important one.
Guess that's what happens when you train at Naples.
Go to a school with European JAA FIs and you'll be fine.
Thats probably true when the job market was good, but now and for the next few years until the good times are back any training outwith the UK will be looked on poorly when applying for a job in the UK.
So trained and tested under the UK authority isn't creating barriers to new applicants here.
Trained and tested under Spanish regulations is creating barriers.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Dark Africa
Age: 49
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JAA & FAA are two different ways and philosophies to approach the aviation training. The JAA requires more focus on the theory and the FAA is more practical and more orientated to the flight training but both licenses are excellent and are the reference in the world. In some regions the FAA license is preferred (i.e. Latin America) and in some parts of the planet the operators prefer the JAA. Arguing about what license is the best is like discussing regarding soccer or politics….a complete waste of time. Choosing the specific type of training (FAA or JAA) is an individual decision based on the money and time available, the nationality and where are you planning to work.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eire/HK
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said BelArgUSA.
If any of you think that the JAA/ JAR is superior in any way to the FAA license, I wish you well with you stuck up career. The JAA system is so far removed from the reality of day to day flying its just not true.
The JAA flight test is NOT more comprehensive than the FAA flight test.
The bottom line is, the FAA test questions are available through a thing called 'freedom of information" something Britian would do well to explore. There is only one FAA test at CPL and ATPL level, and they only have 80 questions, but they cover all the required subjects. So, how many questions from each subject do you have to answer in order to prove you know that subject? Furthermore if those questions were not available, you would have to study all the subject material from each subject to pass, kind of like you do in JAR land. If your questions where available in the same format, would you LEARN any more?
I instructed in the USA to build time, and had numerous students from the UK and NZ who came over there with the idea that it was easy, did not study, and flunked.
Since then I have maintained my FAA ATP, done type ratings in the US and have a good career, which has taken me to the four corners of the earth.
The JAA/ JAR system is no better than the FAA system, and having a FAA license will not hurt your chances of getting employed, and if a DO or CP says that you are less experienced because you have both, then really, who is more stupid.
If any of you think that the JAA/ JAR is superior in any way to the FAA license, I wish you well with you stuck up career. The JAA system is so far removed from the reality of day to day flying its just not true.
The JAA flight test is NOT more comprehensive than the FAA flight test.
The bottom line is, the FAA test questions are available through a thing called 'freedom of information" something Britian would do well to explore. There is only one FAA test at CPL and ATPL level, and they only have 80 questions, but they cover all the required subjects. So, how many questions from each subject do you have to answer in order to prove you know that subject? Furthermore if those questions were not available, you would have to study all the subject material from each subject to pass, kind of like you do in JAR land. If your questions where available in the same format, would you LEARN any more?
I instructed in the USA to build time, and had numerous students from the UK and NZ who came over there with the idea that it was easy, did not study, and flunked.
Since then I have maintained my FAA ATP, done type ratings in the US and have a good career, which has taken me to the four corners of the earth.
The JAA/ JAR system is no better than the FAA system, and having a FAA license will not hurt your chances of getting employed, and if a DO or CP says that you are less experienced because you have both, then really, who is more stupid.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: earth
Posts: 516
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I would love to get my FAA ATP, one day I will. It is pretty dammed hard.
As I and some other's said, it makes not one bit of difference Of course there are those here that will tell you otherwise, but do they have jobs, did they find having trained in the UK for a CPL makes such a difference?
oh and Kag, Belarg is a VERY experienced pilot, I as a 737 driver, always read his post with interest. So why don't you go back in your hole. As for the moon shot, if it had not been for the skill of the American Astronauts, then there would never have been a Moon Landing.
Just a very Patriotic Brit, not a blinkered one.
FC
As I and some other's said, it makes not one bit of difference Of course there are those here that will tell you otherwise, but do they have jobs, did they find having trained in the UK for a CPL makes such a difference?
oh and Kag, Belarg is a VERY experienced pilot, I as a 737 driver, always read his post with interest. So why don't you go back in your hole. As for the moon shot, if it had not been for the skill of the American Astronauts, then there would never have been a Moon Landing.
Just a very Patriotic Brit, not a blinkered one.
FC
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: India
Age: 35
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
@B200
Whatever you might say, the knowledge required to pass a FAA written examination is lesser than a lot of other CAA's exams. That is a fact.
However, that is not to say that xyz license is better than a FAA license. Just worth a mention, in case people think otherwise.
Whatever you might say, the knowledge required to pass a FAA written examination is lesser than a lot of other CAA's exams. That is a fact.
However, that is not to say that xyz license is better than a FAA license. Just worth a mention, in case people think otherwise.
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of the most ridiculous postings here since a long time...well done guys!
Shouldn't you be writing CVs or something?
Saying that a JAA license is superior to a FAA one is plain stupid at best and not worth any further arguments so lets just leave it at that.
I also hold a FAA CPL and will get my JAA one in some time added to that.
As for your CV, think about it.
One guy has either on his, you have BOTH on it. Can't see how that can be a disatvantage really.... the more the merrier right?
Shouldn't you be writing CVs or something?
Saying that a JAA license is superior to a FAA one is plain stupid at best and not worth any further arguments so lets just leave it at that.
I also hold a FAA CPL and will get my JAA one in some time added to that.
As for your CV, think about it.
One guy has either on his, you have BOTH on it. Can't see how that can be a disatvantage really.... the more the merrier right?
Hovering AND talking
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Propping up bars in the Lands of D H Lawrence and Bishop Bonner
Age: 59
Posts: 5,705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last time i checked, it didn't really matter if you had a JAA or an FAA license,
Cheers
Whirls
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Eire/HK
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dick, What I am saying, if you read my post properly and not just see what you want to see is that you learn 14 subjects to take a CPL and most of that is WORTHLESS OUT OF DATE DRIVEL. Aviation has moved on but the British system hasn't. Even a prominent member of the CAA has admitted that they make it difficult to keep the "Riffraff" out, it is elitist and old fashioned, And by the way, I am British and come from a family of British aviators. It does not change the fact that most of what you learn in order to get a fATPL in the UK, you will never ever use in your aviation career, not even if you become an intrepid explorer, even they have a GARMIN tucked away somewhere.
Don't think for one minute, that a pilot who has a JAR is superior to a FAA certified pilot, you will end up, like many before you, bitter and twisted!!!
Furthermore, to answer your question about the IF, for my FAA IF, I did 40 hrs of instrument training, in which I logged 76 approaches, some full procedure, others vectored, I also practiced all the other required skills. After my checkride, I was competent to fly in IMC under IFR and shoot a full procedure approach to a landing. How do you think the British system, being more difficult will help you achieve any more than that??? Is that not the desired outcome?
Don't think for one minute, that a pilot who has a JAR is superior to a FAA certified pilot, you will end up, like many before you, bitter and twisted!!!
Furthermore, to answer your question about the IF, for my FAA IF, I did 40 hrs of instrument training, in which I logged 76 approaches, some full procedure, others vectored, I also practiced all the other required skills. After my checkride, I was competent to fly in IMC under IFR and shoot a full procedure approach to a landing. How do you think the British system, being more difficult will help you achieve any more than that??? Is that not the desired outcome?
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: EGYD
Posts: 1,073
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CFI training... Definitely a perfect science with FAA standards. I do not believe that the UK-CAA FI training goes that far... Theory...? Suggest you Instument Instructors try to pass the FAA Instrument Ground Instructor written exam...
The JAA FI teaches you to teach.
The FAA CFI teaches you how to fly better etc.
Just because you can fly doesn't mean you can teach it!.
For the record I am dual qualified JAA and FAA.
I work under FAA and JAA.
The JAA / FAA debate has always been there. It's been horses for courses for years until recently -
It's not that JAA is better, it's that the FAA standard is becoming worse - mainly due to complete lack of control over DPEs which then leads to flight schools basically training to the 80 year old DPEs standard - which is non existent. Anyone who works day to day in the business of both will agree - it was a FAA employee who pointed the above out to me.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Location: Location
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Many thanks to all those replied directly answering my question, very helpful indeed and has certainly dispelled a few myths.
To all those who felt the need to get the boot in with regarding the UK V's US, many thanks again! ive just spent 10 minutes trawling through all your dross, i wont get that 10 minutes of my life back!
To all those who felt the need to get the boot in with regarding the UK V's US, many thanks again! ive just spent 10 minutes trawling through all your dross, i wont get that 10 minutes of my life back!