Advice needed urgently should i start now?
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BA038... there is a difference between text speak and a typo.... but I hope you already knew that.
From reading your posts I would seriously go away and do something else for a couple of years. You will come back more mature and wise to the world and in a better position to make your own decisions. The industry may even be picking up then and you will still have age on your side.
Holding up 6 weeks making coffee at your brothers law firm as evidence of a career history as well as working as a waiter whilst admirable is a bit lame. But in time you will come to see that. Perhaps when you do finally see that this just makes you look like a plonker it will be a good time for you to start training... then you will have enough maturity to look back at some of your posts on here and cringe.
Good luck but there is nothing "urgent" about your situation at present.
From reading your posts I would seriously go away and do something else for a couple of years. You will come back more mature and wise to the world and in a better position to make your own decisions. The industry may even be picking up then and you will still have age on your side.
Holding up 6 weeks making coffee at your brothers law firm as evidence of a career history as well as working as a waiter whilst admirable is a bit lame. But in time you will come to see that. Perhaps when you do finally see that this just makes you look like a plonker it will be a good time for you to start training... then you will have enough maturity to look back at some of your posts on here and cringe.
Good luck but there is nothing "urgent" about your situation at present.
Its a very stupid time to enter the pilot market.
Its a very stupid idea to do some random degree as 'a backup'.
The most logical strategy is to cease costly education, enter paid work, save, then start vocational pilot training in a few years time with adequate savings and minimal debt.
Unfortunately this isn't an enticing or exciting plan. It is however correct.
WWW
Its a very stupid idea to do some random degree as 'a backup'.
The most logical strategy is to cease costly education, enter paid work, save, then start vocational pilot training in a few years time with adequate savings and minimal debt.
Unfortunately this isn't an enticing or exciting plan. It is however correct.
WWW
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WWW --- one of the most logical answer ive had judging from the previous posts.
Thank you
As for "getoffmycloud"
"Holding up 6 weeks making coffee at your brothers law firm as evidence of a career history"
I think your a bit immature to judge an individual like that regardless of their work or even what they have posted on this forum.
One may say the most stupid thing yet merely just to get an opinion or even answer,but judging an individual like that is wrong and i suggest you dont do it to any other people in this forum.
And with regards to the statement above NO i wasnt serving coffe at all -this just shows you jumping into conclusions and being prejudice.
"makes you look like a plonker"
I also believe this statement you made ,you think i am sort of a "plonker" right now ummmm makes me think sort of person you are.
Whirlygig- yes i do agree with you but certain negative comments which
"Grass strip basher" mentioned ,i personally believe it was a bit inappropriate but hey i am on pprune.
Thank you
As for "getoffmycloud"
"Holding up 6 weeks making coffee at your brothers law firm as evidence of a career history"
I think your a bit immature to judge an individual like that regardless of their work or even what they have posted on this forum.
One may say the most stupid thing yet merely just to get an opinion or even answer,but judging an individual like that is wrong and i suggest you dont do it to any other people in this forum.
And with regards to the statement above NO i wasnt serving coffe at all -this just shows you jumping into conclusions and being prejudice.
"makes you look like a plonker"
I also believe this statement you made ,you think i am sort of a "plonker" right now ummmm makes me think sort of person you are.
Whirlygig- yes i do agree with you but certain negative comments which
"Grass strip basher" mentioned ,i personally believe it was a bit inappropriate but hey i am on pprune.
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Heh, WWW, good post! Direct and gets a valid point across.
Just to say, I am doing what you have said, with 2 interviews in the pipeline. Both are trainee paid/sponsored degree programs and providing you pass you get a job at the end. Lets hope the interviews go well!
But once again, for the time being this post should be the first thing wannabes should see on this forum in this climate!
Just to say, I am doing what you have said, with 2 interviews in the pipeline. Both are trainee paid/sponsored degree programs and providing you pass you get a job at the end. Lets hope the interviews go well!
But once again, for the time being this post should be the first thing wannabes should see on this forum in this climate!
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I make no apology for my comments. In what way were they inappropriate?? You think text speak doesn't make you look like an uneducated idiot?? We will have to disagree on that.
Pprune is full of young naive wanabees fresh out of school who have no idea as to the value of money and are ready and willing to sink £70-80k in debt to fund a "dream" during one of the nastiest recessions we have seen for years.
If folks come one here with a load of "text" speak and have to ask dad to look after their money because they lack the self control to look after it themselves frankly they need to spend a couple of years "maturing" before they consider spending £70-80k on flight training. Or do you disagree? There is no polite way to tell people this.
BA038 I am sure you were doing really really important work at your brothers firm.... they must have been devastated when you left to go back to school.
Everyone with any level of experience on this thread is telling you to go away and work and save for a few years. Then you will be a little older and wiser and have some money tucked away to start training.
I am not your mum and frankly I don't give a stuff if what I say offends you... I have been around long enough to have very thick skin.. although I did laugh at you calling Getofmycloud immature
.... we all bow to your superior experience gleamed from an extensive 6 weeks placement and time spent as a waiter.... ah the arrogance of youth... I remember when I was like that!
I have corrected the typo in my previous post.... I appreciate the need for correct grammar/spelling etc when addressing other people.
Pprune is full of young naive wanabees fresh out of school who have no idea as to the value of money and are ready and willing to sink £70-80k in debt to fund a "dream" during one of the nastiest recessions we have seen for years.
If folks come one here with a load of "text" speak and have to ask dad to look after their money because they lack the self control to look after it themselves frankly they need to spend a couple of years "maturing" before they consider spending £70-80k on flight training. Or do you disagree? There is no polite way to tell people this.
BA038 I am sure you were doing really really important work at your brothers firm.... they must have been devastated when you left to go back to school.
Everyone with any level of experience on this thread is telling you to go away and work and save for a few years. Then you will be a little older and wiser and have some money tucked away to start training.
I am not your mum and frankly I don't give a stuff if what I say offends you... I have been around long enough to have very thick skin.. although I did laugh at you calling Getofmycloud immature
.... we all bow to your superior experience gleamed from an extensive 6 weeks placement and time spent as a waiter.... ah the arrogance of youth... I remember when I was like that! I have corrected the typo in my previous post.... I appreciate the need for correct grammar/spelling
etc when addressing other people.
Last edited by Grass strip basher; 15th Jun 2009 at 08:09.
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Going for an avation degree sounds like putting all your eggs in one basket. I'd go for a degree that is likely to give career options in an industry that pays well enough to do some private flying if an airline career doesn't work out.
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Ba038,
If you want to start flight training then start training. If you want to go to Uni and enjoy yourself before you start flight training then do it. Don't try and forecast the market and don't listen to people thinking they can.
Personally I wouldn't spend the money with Oxford. I'd rather keep 20k in hand, at least, for a type rating (shock horror). Training will be hard, you will feel like giving up but the important thing is to just keep plugging.
You may of discovered PPrune isn't the best place to get advice.
I can feel about a million responses comming on pulling my opinions, grammer and spelling apart. OMG IMAO etc
There's a 50p prize for the clever old chap who can point out the deliberate spelling mistake in this response! A bonus of a £1 will be awarded for finding the deliberate grammatical error. Answers on a postcard.
If you want to start flight training then start training. If you want to go to Uni and enjoy yourself before you start flight training then do it. Don't try and forecast the market and don't listen to people thinking they can.
Personally I wouldn't spend the money with Oxford. I'd rather keep 20k in hand, at least, for a type rating (shock horror). Training will be hard, you will feel like giving up but the important thing is to just keep plugging.
You may of discovered PPrune isn't the best place to get advice.
I can feel about a million responses comming on pulling my opinions, grammer and spelling apart. OMG IMAO etc
There's a 50p prize for the clever old chap who can point out the deliberate spelling mistake in this response! A bonus of a £1 will be awarded for finding the deliberate grammatical error. Answers on a postcard.
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It's grammar and not grammer - I was corrected on here for that!
'
Two reasons for pulling this one up,it should be 'it may have not 'of'' and it is an arrogant and cras statement. All advice should be taken on board, it is obvious to your own circumstances what is rubbish and what isn't.
So one of those was a genuine mistake:
and the other was not given you have said mistake without an 's'!
You may of discovered PPrune isn't the best place to get advice.
Two reasons for pulling this one up,it should be 'it may have not 'of'' and it is an arrogant and cras statement. All advice should be taken on board, it is obvious to your own circumstances what is rubbish and what isn't.
So one of those was a genuine mistake:
There's a 50p prize for the clever old chap who can point out the deliberate spelling mistake in this response! A bonus of a £1 will be awarded for finding the deliberate grammatical error. Answers on a postcard.
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Its amazing you know, I first used this forum ten years ago, then re-subscribed more recently - and it hasn't changed a bit!
The snotty retorts, hyper-criticism and eagerness to put-down is still alive and well.
Yes, text speak and poor spelling does look scruffy but to be fair the poor fella's not here for an interview! It was mentioned once, if people don't like it don't read it!
There is a wealth of information on this forum, but it is spoiled by the hostility shown to points raised or questions made that are not to peoples liking.
It's a 'wannabe' forum - there are going to be young people with little or no job experience on here, I'm sure they dont need to have their noses rubbed in it every time they show a perceived lack of maturity - some posters are having a go at very easy targets!
And worst of all - I am a little guilty of it too! shame on me!
I solemnly swear that I shall be pleasant, tolerant and supportive - unless someone has a go at me!
The snotty retorts, hyper-criticism and eagerness to put-down is still alive and well.
Yes, text speak and poor spelling does look scruffy but to be fair the poor fella's not here for an interview! It was mentioned once, if people don't like it don't read it!
There is a wealth of information on this forum, but it is spoiled by the hostility shown to points raised or questions made that are not to peoples liking.
It's a 'wannabe' forum - there are going to be young people with little or no job experience on here, I'm sure they dont need to have their noses rubbed in it every time they show a perceived lack of maturity - some posters are having a go at very easy targets!
And worst of all - I am a little guilty of it too! shame on me!
I solemnly swear that I shall be pleasant, tolerant and supportive - unless someone has a go at me!
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Grass strip basher - i cannot be bothered wasting my time and effort arguing over you ,thats why im not not going to give you my thoughts or opinions about you ,your a waste of time anyone can see that.
Besides everything i was going to say at this time and moment "Thick Blue Line" has already said it for me.
Thank you for your sound advice -edmooriginal,cwatters.
Besides everything i was going to say at this time and moment "Thick Blue Line" has already said it for me.
Thank you for your sound advice -edmooriginal,cwatters.
Ideally I'd like to be always supportive, explanatory, balanced and fulsome in my answers. Scroggs my retired co-moderator was nearly all the time.
Unfortunately to the effort to do destroys you mentally so you just have to be blunt to survive as a moderator of Wannabes. Its a never never ending army of zombies intent of spending as much as possible as quickly as possible to go directly to the flightdeck of either a Bus or a Boeing. It never changes, the questions remain the same and the issues are constant.
The only thing that does change is the background of the industry. From boom (2005) to bust (2009) it can be a hell of a rollercoaster.
Entering the market now is a poor strategy. Keep your powder dry.
WWW
ps PPRuNe is the *BEST* place for advice as there are opinions here devoid of vested interests. That's priceless.
Unfortunately to the effort to do destroys you mentally so you just have to be blunt to survive as a moderator of Wannabes. Its a never never ending army of zombies intent of spending as much as possible as quickly as possible to go directly to the flightdeck of either a Bus or a Boeing. It never changes, the questions remain the same and the issues are constant.
The only thing that does change is the background of the industry. From boom (2005) to bust (2009) it can be a hell of a rollercoaster.
Entering the market now is a poor strategy. Keep your powder dry.
WWW
ps PPRuNe is the *BEST* place for advice as there are opinions here devoid of vested interests. That's priceless.
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Quote - ps PPRuNe is the *BEST* place for advice as there are opinions here devoid of vested interests. That's priceless.
I would completely agree!
Its a fine balance as clearly some punters struggle to take advice made with the best intentions. It would however be a shame if the attitude of some prevented others benefitting from what the forum has to offer.
I would completely agree!
Its a fine balance as clearly some punters struggle to take advice made with the best intentions. It would however be a shame if the attitude of some prevented others benefitting from what the forum has to offer.
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My advice
My advice is to do nothing (apart from maybe some fun PPL flying) for a year or even two. I have to agree with WWW - it's as bad now as I've ever seen it and I've been in aviation (though not as a pilot) since 1995.
I spoke with some old BA chums last week. Their soom and gloom shocked me - there are possibl going to be hundreds less BA pilots flying in a couple of years and my own company Flybe has frozen all recruitment for the foreseeable future and they have always been a solid recruiter of low hours types. Only Ryanair seems to be recruiting and you have to ask yourself if you are prepared to subject yourself to that after spending £60-£100k.
As an aside if I were young and keen to fly there's no question the best flying in the UK is to be had in the RAF. I have flown with many ex RAF pilots in the past couple of years and have been astounded by how much better in many ways life as an RAF pilot is than in the airline sector nowadays. They pay ALL your training, you get to fly some of the most fantastic hardware around, you get paid far more than you would in any likely first airline job, plus the flying is far more exciting and from what I can gather the hours are a dammned sight more sociable too! Many of the guys I fly with are ex- Herc and Nimrod and seemingly they didn't fly anything like as much as us airline guys do, had miles more time off, got to visit loads of interesting places (which they actually had time to explore) and they hardly seemed to fly at weekends or at the antisocial times many airline guys have to!
I'm not even mentioning the cheap beer, the culture, the training, the pension at age 40 and the kudos with babes that saying you're an RAF pilot still has!
I know which ay I'd be heading if I had my time again! Then after 10-20 years of the world's best flying you can still become a civilian pilot if that floats your boat!
Don't get me wrong, I love civilian flying, but there's no question there has been a dramatic sea change in the working hours versus the pay in the past ten years. There are a few bastions of high pay and civilised lifestyle left - Thomsonfly, BA, Virgin, Monarch, Thomas Cook but those are the jobs everybody wants and they're also the airlines who aren't recruiting!
Desk-pilot
I spoke with some old BA chums last week. Their soom and gloom shocked me - there are possibl going to be hundreds less BA pilots flying in a couple of years and my own company Flybe has frozen all recruitment for the foreseeable future and they have always been a solid recruiter of low hours types. Only Ryanair seems to be recruiting and you have to ask yourself if you are prepared to subject yourself to that after spending £60-£100k.
As an aside if I were young and keen to fly there's no question the best flying in the UK is to be had in the RAF. I have flown with many ex RAF pilots in the past couple of years and have been astounded by how much better in many ways life as an RAF pilot is than in the airline sector nowadays. They pay ALL your training, you get to fly some of the most fantastic hardware around, you get paid far more than you would in any likely first airline job, plus the flying is far more exciting and from what I can gather the hours are a dammned sight more sociable too! Many of the guys I fly with are ex- Herc and Nimrod and seemingly they didn't fly anything like as much as us airline guys do, had miles more time off, got to visit loads of interesting places (which they actually had time to explore) and they hardly seemed to fly at weekends or at the antisocial times many airline guys have to!
I'm not even mentioning the cheap beer, the culture, the training, the pension at age 40 and the kudos with babes that saying you're an RAF pilot still has!
I know which ay I'd be heading if I had my time again! Then after 10-20 years of the world's best flying you can still become a civilian pilot if that floats your boat!
Don't get me wrong, I love civilian flying, but there's no question there has been a dramatic sea change in the working hours versus the pay in the past ten years. There are a few bastions of high pay and civilised lifestyle left - Thomsonfly, BA, Virgin, Monarch, Thomas Cook but those are the jobs everybody wants and they're also the airlines who aren't recruiting!
Desk-pilot
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I'd like to add to desk-pilot and say that the "soom and gloom of BA pilots" does NOT shock me. I am seeing it here in South East Asia and not just with my ex-pat counterparts. I am talking about the 10'000 hour nationals as well.
If you take the basic stages from GA to flying a 747 for example and not take fleet expansion into account, then you need retirement and recruitment from the International Legacy carriers in order for pilots to move up the chain.
What is happening in the SE Asian aviation is as bad as the crash of the 'tiger economies' at the turn of the millennia or even during SARS. Recruitment is hovering slightly above absolute zero. And this is occurring back in blighty as well. This is the reason why 250hr cadets in the UK can not even get any FI jobs - even if they are willing to pay 6K or whatever it is to be an instructor.
Guys, if you are too excited and really want to start training then I won't put you off. You go for it.
BUT
PLEASE PLEASE at least hedge your bets and go for the lowest risk approach. Get Integrated training out of your silly heads (even if your parents are filthy rich - you are just wasting time) and go mod. Get yourself a job and go flying on weekends. It would take you about 3 years and probably very little in terms of loans. You become a pilot with very little debt and life experience. I certainly value that on the FD.
Use your brains kids.
If you take the basic stages from GA to flying a 747 for example and not take fleet expansion into account, then you need retirement and recruitment from the International Legacy carriers in order for pilots to move up the chain.
What is happening in the SE Asian aviation is as bad as the crash of the 'tiger economies' at the turn of the millennia or even during SARS. Recruitment is hovering slightly above absolute zero. And this is occurring back in blighty as well. This is the reason why 250hr cadets in the UK can not even get any FI jobs - even if they are willing to pay 6K or whatever it is to be an instructor.
Guys, if you are too excited and really want to start training then I won't put you off. You go for it.
BUT
PLEASE PLEASE at least hedge your bets and go for the lowest risk approach. Get Integrated training out of your silly heads (even if your parents are filthy rich - you are just wasting time) and go mod. Get yourself a job and go flying on weekends. It would take you about 3 years and probably very little in terms of loans. You become a pilot with very little debt and life experience. I certainly value that on the FD.
Use your brains kids.
