Anyone starting Cabair integrated in March?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The World
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Anyone starting Cabair integrated in March?
Is anyone here going to start Cabair integrated in March? Especially any of the guys that attended the assessment on the 18th Dec? 
I'm just going to have a meeting with my bank on Thursday, haven't really got any idea what they're going to say
my parents have promised to help with securing though 
I'm just going to have a meeting with my bank on Thursday, haven't really got any idea what they're going to say
my parents have promised to help with securing though
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: North of South
Posts: 831
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you get to cabair seek out the instructor who looks most like George Michael Circa 1985 and ask him if he can explain (again ) the Airbus A320
Emergency landing on water button . He was overheard stood talking to a young lady at a well known bournemouth buttie wagon explaining why the pilot of the aircraft that landed in the hudson is not a hero as he just pressed the aforementioned button and let the aircraft do the work.
Hope he's not an instrument instructor
Emergency landing on water button . He was overheard stood talking to a young lady at a well known bournemouth buttie wagon explaining why the pilot of the aircraft that landed in the hudson is not a hero as he just pressed the aforementioned button and let the aircraft do the work.
Hope he's not an instrument instructor
At this point I'd like to explode.
I don't have the energy, someone else explain.
WWW
I don't have the energy, someone else explain.
WWW
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: the moon
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I can explain, www is talking about the world pilot shortage that has been a constant thorn in airlines sides for years now. The FTO's are the experts on the matter and you should take it up with them, just make sure you have a cheque for 80 grand with you. 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: UK.
Posts: 629
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my parents have promised to help with securing though
If they are still so keen then good luck with the recession!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cambridge
Age: 35
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So answer me this guys - if this chap's beginning an integrated course in March, that would put him for completion some time around May/June 2010. If you're all such experts at predicting the economic state for 18 months' time, then how come two years ago I didn't hear any of you mentioning this current 'crisis'?
There is no right or wrong answer regarding whether now is a good time to train or not, it's anybody's guess.
However, many people don't seem to understand how bad the current global recession is going to get before it picks up - it is going to become a LOT worse before it even begins getting better, and I should say it will be at LEAST another year before we see an improvement. With the review at the end of the year we should see an improvement in the housing market at least which is one of the many key foundations of the economy. Hopefully things will begin to pick up thereon.
But who knows. We're only human, and unfortunately not psychic
Good luck with your training!
Ad
There is no right or wrong answer regarding whether now is a good time to train or not, it's anybody's guess.
However, many people don't seem to understand how bad the current global recession is going to get before it picks up - it is going to become a LOT worse before it even begins getting better, and I should say it will be at LEAST another year before we see an improvement. With the review at the end of the year we should see an improvement in the housing market at least which is one of the many key foundations of the economy. Hopefully things will begin to pick up thereon.
But who knows. We're only human, and unfortunately not psychic
Good luck with your training!
Ad
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Salford Lads Club
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In the words of someone far more eloquent than my good self:-
"Madder than Mad Jock McMad, the winner of this years Mr Madman competition....."
But good luck all the same.
"Madder than Mad Jock McMad, the winner of this years Mr Madman competition....."
But good luck all the same.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: manchester UK
Age: 52
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont think you are quite getting it, even if the economy picks up in a year, the world of aviation doesnt all of a sudden have a mass of jobs available. I too am having to pick up my modular training this year but i tell you, its certainly not by choice, my exams expire in 2010 so reluctantly i have to get done. Also im lucky and have a option to keep the licence alive at least, and have another career which i can rely on.
Listen to the guys who have been in this game for many a year and they will tell you how it really is in a downturn. average trend is every 6 - 8 years for recruitment. We have just had an unprecedented few years with above average recruitment in the boom, there is only one way its going to go. Yes there will be a few jobs but remember all those guys with above 1000 hours and type rated who are out of work as we speak. Dont be under any illusions.
We all have a dream, but reality is much harder to swallow, but reality it is im afraid.
Anyone considering putting their parents house on the line, if they had any consideration should at least let them read some of the posts and threads on this forum!!.In fact , read them yourself first!!
Listen to the guys who have been in this game for many a year and they will tell you how it really is in a downturn. average trend is every 6 - 8 years for recruitment. We have just had an unprecedented few years with above average recruitment in the boom, there is only one way its going to go. Yes there will be a few jobs but remember all those guys with above 1000 hours and type rated who are out of work as we speak. Dont be under any illusions.
We all have a dream, but reality is much harder to swallow, but reality it is im afraid.
Anyone considering putting their parents house on the line, if they had any consideration should at least let them read some of the posts and threads on this forum!!.In fact , read them yourself first!!
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,312
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what?
The flying schools are businesses that need to survive. They only do that by selling their products. Those that they employ can only pay their mortgages/rent and other bills if their employer has the income to pay them.
If this chap or his parents are able to raise the funds to pay for this course, then that is their business. If they want to go out and buy a Mercedes SL for the same sum of money, that is equally their business.
Whether this chap or his parents are relying on this course to provide a short term return is something that is incumbent on them to research and decide. The poster isn't asking for an assessment of the market place or more "expert" opinion, he simply wants to know if anyone else is expecting to start on the course he is proposing to join.
The flying schools are businesses that need to survive. They only do that by selling their products. Those that they employ can only pay their mortgages/rent and other bills if their employer has the income to pay them.
If this chap or his parents are able to raise the funds to pay for this course, then that is their business. If they want to go out and buy a Mercedes SL for the same sum of money, that is equally their business.
Whether this chap or his parents are relying on this course to provide a short term return is something that is incumbent on them to research and decide. The poster isn't asking for an assessment of the market place or more "expert" opinion, he simply wants to know if anyone else is expecting to start on the course he is proposing to join.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 1,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my parents have promised to help with securing though
I hope your parents have been informed of the lack of jobs, unsecure job market, crashing airlines and low passenger numbers expected over the next couple of years.
I hope your parents have been informed of the lack of jobs, unsecure job market, crashing airlines and low passenger numbers expected over the next couple of years.
Back to the point now, NO I will not be joining you at Cabair in March!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: The World
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hmph, how come this thread's turned into one of those recession and economic moanings this forum and the whole web seems to be full of these days? 
I wasn't asking whether in your opinion I'm doing the right thing and whether I'm going to have a job in 2010 rest assured that being at this point these things have been thought of long since!
I wasn't asking whether in your opinion I'm doing the right thing and whether I'm going to have a job in 2010 rest assured that being at this point these things have been thought of long since!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cambridge
Age: 35
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
hughesyd,
That's exactly my point - there is no such thing as a 'boom' in the aviation industry. There are times when there are a few more jobs dotted around here and there, but as a whole, it has never and will never be easy to secure a job as an a commercial pilot, airline or otherwise. It simply means that one must change their tact somewhat, from sending out mountains of CVs when the market is 'good', to moving back into good old networking and accepting you'll probably be flying something that's not made by Boeing or Airbus when times are tough. There will always be jobs around for the 250 hour cadet, and perhaps in one of the so called 'booms' these guys from XL, Sterling, Futura, Zoom etc would have an advantage. Unfortunately, as 90% of these guys have less than 5,000 hours on type, they are at no advantage to anybody else, including cadets, because the jobs on such hardware will ONLY go to the very experienced guys. Just take a look at what's happening with Jet2 - many hopes were raised only to be thwarted when the harsh reality kicked in.
If anything, low houred pilots may in fact be in a better position as I know of only one airline currently recruiting for the 737, and that's my airline. And I know we prefer the less experienced guys because they tend to stay here longer, as opposed to leaving when the going becomes a little easier to tackle.
And apart from that, the only other jobs around are found through contacts - somebody might have 10,000 hours, but if most of that time is in the airlines with little to zilch spent in the general aviation side of things, it will be very difficult to make the transition now. It's perhaps ironic that some of these people were the guys who, many years ago, swore they would never accept anything less than a jet, who now find themselves in this situation where there is nothing available to them because they closed their minds to the majority of the aviation industry, where the jobs do still remain when times are tough. But hey, that's a totally different discussion.
Again, good luck with your training, and try to get out there and meet as many people as you can.
Ad
That's exactly my point - there is no such thing as a 'boom' in the aviation industry. There are times when there are a few more jobs dotted around here and there, but as a whole, it has never and will never be easy to secure a job as an a commercial pilot, airline or otherwise. It simply means that one must change their tact somewhat, from sending out mountains of CVs when the market is 'good', to moving back into good old networking and accepting you'll probably be flying something that's not made by Boeing or Airbus when times are tough. There will always be jobs around for the 250 hour cadet, and perhaps in one of the so called 'booms' these guys from XL, Sterling, Futura, Zoom etc would have an advantage. Unfortunately, as 90% of these guys have less than 5,000 hours on type, they are at no advantage to anybody else, including cadets, because the jobs on such hardware will ONLY go to the very experienced guys. Just take a look at what's happening with Jet2 - many hopes were raised only to be thwarted when the harsh reality kicked in.
If anything, low houred pilots may in fact be in a better position as I know of only one airline currently recruiting for the 737, and that's my airline. And I know we prefer the less experienced guys because they tend to stay here longer, as opposed to leaving when the going becomes a little easier to tackle.
And apart from that, the only other jobs around are found through contacts - somebody might have 10,000 hours, but if most of that time is in the airlines with little to zilch spent in the general aviation side of things, it will be very difficult to make the transition now. It's perhaps ironic that some of these people were the guys who, many years ago, swore they would never accept anything less than a jet, who now find themselves in this situation where there is nothing available to them because they closed their minds to the majority of the aviation industry, where the jobs do still remain when times are tough. But hey, that's a totally different discussion.
Again, good luck with your training, and try to get out there and meet as many people as you can.
Ad
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Warrington, UK
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi Balticsea,
I got a phone call from Cabair last week asking me whether I be starting the course on 06/03/2009. My reply was No. So far as I know there will 5 students be starting their course in March (you, and 4 from Flybe Cadets).
I think you will easily get a loan if your parents promised to help out via securing it with a house or something. This due to the fact that house value is worth a lot more than the loan you are asking, say 60 grand? But bear in mind that if you are unable to pay off the loan then the bank will take your/the house. Banks are just doing the business!!
If you do start in March, I will probably see you 2 months later.
Good Luck with Cabair
n.dave
I got a phone call from Cabair last week asking me whether I be starting the course on 06/03/2009. My reply was No. So far as I know there will 5 students be starting their course in March (you, and 4 from Flybe Cadets).
I think you will easily get a loan if your parents promised to help out via securing it with a house or something. This due to the fact that house value is worth a lot more than the loan you are asking, say 60 grand? But bear in mind that if you are unable to pay off the loan then the bank will take your/the house. Banks are just doing the business!!
If you do start in March, I will probably see you 2 months later.
Good Luck with Cabair
n.dave
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cambridge
Age: 35
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Topslide6,
In a word, yes, I am seriously suggesting just that. Whether you have 250 hours, or 5,000 hours, you aint getting a job on a jet in Europe now. I am certainly not attempting to make our experienced colleagues out to be anything less than they are, because they deserve as much respect as their logbooks demonstrate.
Perhaps a better way to approach the argument is this - in better times, experience puts you in better stead. However, when there are no jobs for pilots under, say 7,000 hours, 10,000 hours or whatever, ANYONE who falls below that benchmark very quickly becomes 'just the next guy', regardless of the number of hours.
As I said, have a quick look at the Jet2 thread - there are 7,000 hour Captains applying and being rejected. There are cadets being rejected. They are all in the same boat unfortunately, and unless you have one hell of a logbook, you're not even going to get a look in.
And I say cadets may be at a slight advantage in the grand scheme of things, because you must consider every option - my airline is currently an option for cadets, but not really for experienced guys, because we know 99% of type rated experienced furloughed guys will just leave when they can find better T+Cs elsewhere.
So my personal belief is that the best position to be in right now, is straight out of flight school/have a logbook exceeding 10,000 hours (or whatever the current benchmark is)/have very good contacts, or a combination of the above, although I should be very surprised if somebody has achieved the first two hand in hand!
Personally I'll be staying with FR for as long as I can see - it's about as safe a place to be as you can get, and it pays the bills easily with enough left to take the family out for dinner. It's rather funny how many of the original 'Ryanair bashers' are now 'bashing' at our front door desperate for work. I personally don't see the big deal surrounding T+Cs and how good or bad they are. If you want REAL hard work as a pilot then travel down to Venezuela and try some mission work flying a 172 in and out of 200 metre strips lifting the thing off the back of the drag curve for equivilant £600 a month and ****ty living conditions. Ryanair's a luxury methinks!
Aviation rewards those who are open minded enough and work hard to get where they want to be. The others? Well, take your pick of moaning sob stories on this website. Things have a habit of catching up with you in life sooner or later, so keep your options open and err, KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN!
All the best, Ad
In a word, yes, I am seriously suggesting just that. Whether you have 250 hours, or 5,000 hours, you aint getting a job on a jet in Europe now. I am certainly not attempting to make our experienced colleagues out to be anything less than they are, because they deserve as much respect as their logbooks demonstrate.
Perhaps a better way to approach the argument is this - in better times, experience puts you in better stead. However, when there are no jobs for pilots under, say 7,000 hours, 10,000 hours or whatever, ANYONE who falls below that benchmark very quickly becomes 'just the next guy', regardless of the number of hours.
As I said, have a quick look at the Jet2 thread - there are 7,000 hour Captains applying and being rejected. There are cadets being rejected. They are all in the same boat unfortunately, and unless you have one hell of a logbook, you're not even going to get a look in.
And I say cadets may be at a slight advantage in the grand scheme of things, because you must consider every option - my airline is currently an option for cadets, but not really for experienced guys, because we know 99% of type rated experienced furloughed guys will just leave when they can find better T+Cs elsewhere.
So my personal belief is that the best position to be in right now, is straight out of flight school/have a logbook exceeding 10,000 hours (or whatever the current benchmark is)/have very good contacts, or a combination of the above, although I should be very surprised if somebody has achieved the first two hand in hand!
Personally I'll be staying with FR for as long as I can see - it's about as safe a place to be as you can get, and it pays the bills easily with enough left to take the family out for dinner. It's rather funny how many of the original 'Ryanair bashers' are now 'bashing' at our front door desperate for work. I personally don't see the big deal surrounding T+Cs and how good or bad they are. If you want REAL hard work as a pilot then travel down to Venezuela and try some mission work flying a 172 in and out of 200 metre strips lifting the thing off the back of the drag curve for equivilant £600 a month and ****ty living conditions. Ryanair's a luxury methinks!
Aviation rewards those who are open minded enough and work hard to get where they want to be. The others? Well, take your pick of moaning sob stories on this website. Things have a habit of catching up with you in life sooner or later, so keep your options open and err, KEEP YOUR OPTIONS OPEN!
All the best, Ad
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cambridge
Age: 35
Posts: 170
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Topslide6,
I think perhaps I was a little blunt with what I said, and yes, there ARE jobs out there for people who have 250 hours and for people with multi-thousand hour logbooks as well. I can just see which way this industry is turning and it's not like the good old days (unfortunately) where you earned your wings through pure merit, then worked you way up the ladder to a happy retirement. It happens for some, that there's no denying, and good luck to anybody who wants to make a fruitful, enjoyable career out of aviation - I certainly plan on doing my best.
I would disagree, or would rather adjust to suit my opinion, what you said regarding training. I personally think anybody embarking upon an integrated course having had a look at what the experienced guys are saying on here is not only being incredibly foolish, but very unfairly playing a serious game of Russian Roulette with their parents' mortgage/life savings etc.
However, I think that if, as eire mentioned in his post above, it has come to THAT time when life seems to dictate that you begin your training, GO MODULAR. Each to their own, but I think if you're hell destined on getting cracking the modular route is the way to go, because let's face it, yes there are jobs out there, but not like there have been in the past, so the most sensible route in my opinion is to get your training done as cheaply as possible. Of course you must also strike that fine balance of, most airlines (and indeed most companies as far as I can tell) prefer to see your training conducted through one school, so perhaps consider taking a particular organisations' modular program. Or simply do your training bit by bit as cheaply as you can.
It's a right old circus these days aint it
I think perhaps I was a little blunt with what I said, and yes, there ARE jobs out there for people who have 250 hours and for people with multi-thousand hour logbooks as well. I can just see which way this industry is turning and it's not like the good old days (unfortunately) where you earned your wings through pure merit, then worked you way up the ladder to a happy retirement. It happens for some, that there's no denying, and good luck to anybody who wants to make a fruitful, enjoyable career out of aviation - I certainly plan on doing my best.
I would disagree, or would rather adjust to suit my opinion, what you said regarding training. I personally think anybody embarking upon an integrated course having had a look at what the experienced guys are saying on here is not only being incredibly foolish, but very unfairly playing a serious game of Russian Roulette with their parents' mortgage/life savings etc.
However, I think that if, as eire mentioned in his post above, it has come to THAT time when life seems to dictate that you begin your training, GO MODULAR. Each to their own, but I think if you're hell destined on getting cracking the modular route is the way to go, because let's face it, yes there are jobs out there, but not like there have been in the past, so the most sensible route in my opinion is to get your training done as cheaply as possible. Of course you must also strike that fine balance of, most airlines (and indeed most companies as far as I can tell) prefer to see your training conducted through one school, so perhaps consider taking a particular organisations' modular program. Or simply do your training bit by bit as cheaply as you can.
It's a right old circus these days aint it
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Frankly!! what I have said? Have i been pissed on a wannabies form again ranting about stupidity?
After reading this thread I maybe forced to a drink a couple of bottles of red though.
If I was you I would do it modular and hang off the expensive bits until it starts picking up. you can get up to ppl ATPL theory passed for under 10k if you work you shouldn't even need to take a loan out. If you don't even run it to the line with valid dates you can string it out over 2-4 years.
And I never ever want to see the face again of a 23year old when they get told that they have just spent 30K of thier folks money and the company has just gone tits up. Unfortunatley I saw this at Gatwick at lunch time at the ATPL exams when 15 lads got given the news that there FTO had gone tits up that morning. We are due some training providers going tits up very soon.
After reading this thread I maybe forced to a drink a couple of bottles of red though.
If I was you I would do it modular and hang off the expensive bits until it starts picking up. you can get up to ppl ATPL theory passed for under 10k if you work you shouldn't even need to take a loan out. If you don't even run it to the line with valid dates you can string it out over 2-4 years.
And I never ever want to see the face again of a 23year old when they get told that they have just spent 30K of thier folks money and the company has just gone tits up. Unfortunatley I saw this at Gatwick at lunch time at the ATPL exams when 15 lads got given the news that there FTO had gone tits up that morning. We are due some training providers going tits up very soon.
