Is Cabair going to stay alive?
G
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
with the demise of Cabair a lot of those aeroplanes will be sold because there is highly unlikely to be enough takers for them.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: UK, mainly
Age: 39
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Absolutely. Just because one of the "umbrella" companies seems to be in trouble - and let's be clear on this, there's no absolute statement, it's unlikely but just possible that the owners have called a halt to everything while still solvent to stop losing money - doesn't mean that the whole group have gone down the pan. It would be legal for another company to start a network of flying schools under a trading name... Been there, seen it, except none of us were invited back for jobs/pay/lost pay! There is a lot to be said in the FTO world for setting up a small but good FTO that can concentrate on quality without massive company politics.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Polymer Records
Posts: 597
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Surely though, whether Cabair survives, or reinvents itself, the business is still terminally tainted. Which sane wannabe would ever hand over tens of thousands to them now?
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Which sane wannabe would ever hand over tens of thousands to them now?
I am not a cynic, but I look over that precipice and see the carnage below. Bear in mind why the leasing company is a separate entity; a cynic devised this strategy as a very good way of having the legal prerogative outweigh the moral imperative. Characters who think this way rarely change the failed business model and generally fail again - for the same reasons.
If the rumours are true, then how sad if they were to use the umbrella principle.
If I ruled the world...
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: suffolk
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tainted
I think the issue of being 'tainted' here is fundamental to the survival or otherwise of Cabair.
A friend of mine looked into doing the ab initio at Cabair recently and the sales team at Cabair told him how great the prospects for low hours pilots were. When he told me this I put him in touch with people in the 'real world' and he quickly learned how difficult it is out there for a low hours CPL/ATPL.
Of course now that the question mark over their solvency has surfaced he will be going elsewhere, irrespective of the outcome of their apparently futile quest for investors/buyers.
It is a fact they are tainted and anybody with an ounce of caution would steer clear.
A friend of mine looked into doing the ab initio at Cabair recently and the sales team at Cabair told him how great the prospects for low hours pilots were. When he told me this I put him in touch with people in the 'real world' and he quickly learned how difficult it is out there for a low hours CPL/ATPL.
Of course now that the question mark over their solvency has surfaced he will be going elsewhere, irrespective of the outcome of their apparently futile quest for investors/buyers.
It is a fact they are tainted and anybody with an ounce of caution would steer clear.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well, there is still a very tiny light at the end of the Cabair tunnel and it may be that all is not lost. Having flown on Friday, I was also able to fly again today. 
This is good news for us chaps with money in our flight accounts and I must say that the staff are being very supportive considering everything that is going on.
This is one of the best parts of Cabair, its staff and especially the CFI who keeps me amused despite all the down talk
. To all the guys tied up with Cabair, I have got my fingers crossed for a positive outcome.
This is good news for us chaps with money in our flight accounts and I must say that the staff are being very supportive considering everything that is going on.
This is one of the best parts of Cabair, its staff and especially the CFI who keeps me amused despite all the down talk
. To all the guys tied up with Cabair, I have got my fingers crossed for a positive outcome.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why, for example, don't the CAA make it a basic requirement that an FTO must actually own some aircraft ? They insist on premises, training manuals and a quality manual.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If airlines don't need to own their own aircraft why should FTO's?
Greater brains than mine, I am sure, have stormed this one. The only solution I can arrive at is escrow. This will put up the price of training, but maybe training is too cheap (heresy?) anyway? All of these FTOs work on such small margins it is no wonder some go belly up. Administering the escrow could be where the CAA becomes useful on this issue...
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The previous poster is correct and I wholeheartedly agree but it can be difficult to do anything other than pay up front if those are the terms of the training to be undertaken.
Upfront payment is not the preserve of flight training and neither is insolvency, but what this industry lacks, and this is something which staggers me, is a proper system of guarantee for consumers regularly parting with sums in excess of £50k. Anywhere else you'd get solicitors involved for these sums.
This is where the CAA need to step up to the plate a bit. They need to take responsibility not just in the interests of the flying public but for all those who wish to undertake study or tuition to a CAA (JAA) approved/vetted sylllabus.
The CAA are no strangers to consumer guarantee with ATOL so why don't they provide a similar system to training pilots who are parting with many many times that which your typical sunseekers are? It CAN be done!
On a brighter note, i've been around a bit in this funny old business of aviation and I''ve learned a few things. Anyone decrepit enough to remeber SECOAT at Manston? There are positives too but we only get to hear of the bad cases. Cabair is a brand in it's own right in my opinion, alongside Oxford, say. Cabair and its constituent parts can pull through. The surmised numbers involved aren't phenomenal. This is do'able and I hope that all you guys training with them keep focussed on the goal. Keep your chins up and fingers crossed!!!
And to the the prophet of doom who said this:
IF it indeed turns out to be the case that Cabair has stopped operating, may I offer my sincere condolances to the staff and the students.
It must be a very difficult time for you all and I hope a happy ending is just around the corner.
However.......have a think. One of the UK's biggest and long standing flight school is having problems....and what does that tell you.
LH are trying to sell off bmi, who knows if they will survive. It does not look good for them.
TCX are reducing fleet size and the IT market is in decline.
Air Berlin are reducing there fleet.
Europe and the United States rocking on the precipce of recession or much worse. A planned forfit by the Greeks is begining to look a certanty.
In my humble opinion, dont spend another penny on flight training. There will not be any jobs..
Credit there to "waco". This is despondency at its British best. This industry is riddled with its failed pilots, dashed hopes and missed dreams but let me put you right on something and I hope this makes you feel better. THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE! Go after them. If you want something bad enough you'll get it. Focus on your goal and don't get sidelined worrying about a job market you have no control over. If it truly worries you that much you can fight for a job in civy street over flying a desk!
Upfront payment is not the preserve of flight training and neither is insolvency, but what this industry lacks, and this is something which staggers me, is a proper system of guarantee for consumers regularly parting with sums in excess of £50k. Anywhere else you'd get solicitors involved for these sums.
This is where the CAA need to step up to the plate a bit. They need to take responsibility not just in the interests of the flying public but for all those who wish to undertake study or tuition to a CAA (JAA) approved/vetted sylllabus.
The CAA are no strangers to consumer guarantee with ATOL so why don't they provide a similar system to training pilots who are parting with many many times that which your typical sunseekers are? It CAN be done!
On a brighter note, i've been around a bit in this funny old business of aviation and I''ve learned a few things. Anyone decrepit enough to remeber SECOAT at Manston? There are positives too but we only get to hear of the bad cases. Cabair is a brand in it's own right in my opinion, alongside Oxford, say. Cabair and its constituent parts can pull through. The surmised numbers involved aren't phenomenal. This is do'able and I hope that all you guys training with them keep focussed on the goal. Keep your chins up and fingers crossed!!!
And to the the prophet of doom who said this:
IF it indeed turns out to be the case that Cabair has stopped operating, may I offer my sincere condolances to the staff and the students.
It must be a very difficult time for you all and I hope a happy ending is just around the corner.
However.......have a think. One of the UK's biggest and long standing flight school is having problems....and what does that tell you.
LH are trying to sell off bmi, who knows if they will survive. It does not look good for them.
TCX are reducing fleet size and the IT market is in decline.
Air Berlin are reducing there fleet.
Europe and the United States rocking on the precipce of recession or much worse. A planned forfit by the Greeks is begining to look a certanty.
In my humble opinion, dont spend another penny on flight training. There will not be any jobs..
Credit there to "waco". This is despondency at its British best. This industry is riddled with its failed pilots, dashed hopes and missed dreams but let me put you right on something and I hope this makes you feel better. THERE ARE JOBS OUT THERE! Go after them. If you want something bad enough you'll get it. Focus on your goal and don't get sidelined worrying about a job market you have no control over. If it truly worries you that much you can fight for a job in civy street over flying a desk!
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi StatorVane
I would be particularly happy for you to prove me wrong.
Could you give me some examples of airlines/operators who have very recently recruited or will recruit shortly.
Obviously NOT including CTC related positions or P2F ?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
I would be particularly happy for you to prove me wrong.
Could you give me some examples of airlines/operators who have very recently recruited or will recruit shortly.
Obviously NOT including CTC related positions or P2F ?
Looking forward to hearing from you.
I'm only thinking of doing my PPL, but I have to say escrow seems to me to be a very good idea - I would actually pay a significant premium for it, though obviously it would still have to work out better than the PAYG price.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: essex,UK
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have all been screwed just need to understand it and take it on the chin!!
Reality is you will not get back any money (I never have) and it's all about how you will get to where you want to be.......how múch do you really want it???
Reality is you will not get back any money (I never have) and it's all about how you will get to where you want to be.......how múch do you really want it???
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Preston
Age: 40
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tweety pie? Seriously? Why will we not get our money back to students on the course? The outcome looks bright for cabair and at the end of this it could benefit all students! Do not comment with your pathetic comments unless you know the facts! Stick to flight sim!