Be realistic, my friends...
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Be realistic, my friends...
I was with airlines since JAN 1969, and now retiring at the end of November...
Has been 39 years... 54 days to go...
That includes many years in the USA, where some of you want to try to get a career.
I survived OCT 1973, and 14 years of layoff, forcing me to fly far away.
The situation in OCT 1973 was bad... oil had been $18 per barrel.
Airlines did furlough thousands of pilots, many never made it back to flying.
It was bad, but not as bad as it is now...
xxx
Be realistic...
The world economy today is in a worse shape, than it was in 1929.
Even though Wall Street still does not want to admit it... Their pride...?
Economy is certainly worse than the 1974-1980s' period.
USA elections will change nothing. Read my lips...!
All they can do there is "print more money" - Hooray, Monopoly money...!
xxx
I spend my life in front of the TV News from USA, Europe, Asia and South America.
BBC, CNN, TV-5, Deutsche Welle, TVE, RAI, NHK in English, TV-Globo, you name it...
I read financial newspapers in English, Spanish and French...
The $ on which airlines base revenues and pay fuel is worth nothing.
And despite all that you will train for the next 2 years as pilot...
And spend anywhere between $60,000 to $100,000+ for a licence...?
JAA or FAA, what are your plans, frame it and show it to friends...?
If you get a job flying, is it CFI and earn $1,200 per month...?
xxx
A wild guess, there will be in excess of 10,000, maybe 20,000 pilots out of work soon.
All highly qualified, looking for jobs you cannot get with 250 hrs...
Sure you can buy a licence... but are jobs for sale...?
The way I see it, things will get back to normal 10 years from now (maybe).
xxx
You love airplanes and flying... ok.
So, invest in medical studies, or law. When rich, buy yourself a little airplane.
Do a PPL/IR when you will be able to afford it.
What I know about airlines now...? Well, I would not dream of an airline career.
Come next March, I am going back to the university, for fun. Study archaeology.
All about the Incas, their history, study Quechua language, anthropology...
After November, do not ask me what a 747 is... I shall not recall.
xxx
All the best to all of you. Sorry airlines are in a mess, not my fault.
Happy contrails, from an old fart
Has been 39 years... 54 days to go...
That includes many years in the USA, where some of you want to try to get a career.
I survived OCT 1973, and 14 years of layoff, forcing me to fly far away.
The situation in OCT 1973 was bad... oil had been $18 per barrel.
Airlines did furlough thousands of pilots, many never made it back to flying.
It was bad, but not as bad as it is now...
xxx
Be realistic...
The world economy today is in a worse shape, than it was in 1929.
Even though Wall Street still does not want to admit it... Their pride...?
Economy is certainly worse than the 1974-1980s' period.
USA elections will change nothing. Read my lips...!
All they can do there is "print more money" - Hooray, Monopoly money...!
xxx
I spend my life in front of the TV News from USA, Europe, Asia and South America.
BBC, CNN, TV-5, Deutsche Welle, TVE, RAI, NHK in English, TV-Globo, you name it...
I read financial newspapers in English, Spanish and French...
The $ on which airlines base revenues and pay fuel is worth nothing.
And despite all that you will train for the next 2 years as pilot...
And spend anywhere between $60,000 to $100,000+ for a licence...?
JAA or FAA, what are your plans, frame it and show it to friends...?
If you get a job flying, is it CFI and earn $1,200 per month...?
xxx
A wild guess, there will be in excess of 10,000, maybe 20,000 pilots out of work soon.
All highly qualified, looking for jobs you cannot get with 250 hrs...
Sure you can buy a licence... but are jobs for sale...?
The way I see it, things will get back to normal 10 years from now (maybe).
xxx
You love airplanes and flying... ok.
So, invest in medical studies, or law. When rich, buy yourself a little airplane.
Do a PPL/IR when you will be able to afford it.
What I know about airlines now...? Well, I would not dream of an airline career.
Come next March, I am going back to the university, for fun. Study archaeology.
All about the Incas, their history, study Quechua language, anthropology...
After November, do not ask me what a 747 is... I shall not recall.
xxx
All the best to all of you. Sorry airlines are in a mess, not my fault.
Happy contrails, from an old fart
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BelArgUSA,
Thanks for imparting your words of wisdom. I hope younger wannabes pay heed to them !
May I be the first to wish you a very happy retirement (sounds like fun plans) !
Cheers,
CG.
Thanks for imparting your words of wisdom. I hope younger wannabes pay heed to them !
May I be the first to wish you a very happy retirement (sounds like fun plans) !
Cheers,
CG.
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Fortunately (I think), I am in the position of having finished college and working full time now. Thus I am completing my ppl, whilst saving a bit for when (if) the industry looks more inviting in years to come.
Im glad that I havent started training or parted with any serious money and im quite happy that I will perhaps be ready to start training in say 3 years or so, which will hopefully be a better time for the industry and allow me time to do the training with any loans.
If not, I have a ppl, maybe I will use the money to buy a nice little plane or group share.
Im glad that I havent started training or parted with any serious money and im quite happy that I will perhaps be ready to start training in say 3 years or so, which will hopefully be a better time for the industry and allow me time to do the training with any loans.
If not, I have a ppl, maybe I will use the money to buy a nice little plane or group share.
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(And now cleaning my desk up)My apologies, but that's how such bad news affects me.
However, as a 'senior' wannabe -what a term!- I highly value these kind of pointers.
But as stubborn as most of us and as dreamy as a few, I miss the tips out of that extensive experience for those who are still determined to 'pay' for a fATPL.
After all, getting that rich also isn't that easy.
If it will be a strong upturn or not remains to be seen. People/institutions/corporations will learn from this. So an upturn will be, but what it will look like...???
Don't know if the comparison fully makes sense but the future for hedge fund and private equity pro's also wont be the same; not so much less, but definitely different.
Last edited by Pantera Negra; 24th Sep 2008 at 09:51.
IMHO:-
There will be a demand for air travel in 2010, 2050 and probably 2100. People aren't going to revert to sea travel. Despite OPEC deliberately cutting supply, there is sufficient oil for the time being. And in 50 years time aircraft will be powered by something else anyway.
As for pilots: unless all aircraft are flown solely by computers, there will be a need for pilots. Perhaps the demand will be for fewer pilots because there are fewer aircraft, and certainly fewer pilots will be needed than are actually qualified, but that demand will be there.
If you don't have the drive to be one of the few to get work, heed the advice, give up now or don't even start.
There will be a demand for air travel in 2010, 2050 and probably 2100. People aren't going to revert to sea travel. Despite OPEC deliberately cutting supply, there is sufficient oil for the time being. And in 50 years time aircraft will be powered by something else anyway.
As for pilots: unless all aircraft are flown solely by computers, there will be a need for pilots. Perhaps the demand will be for fewer pilots because there are fewer aircraft, and certainly fewer pilots will be needed than are actually qualified, but that demand will be there.
If you don't have the drive to be one of the few to get work, heed the advice, give up now or don't even start.
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Very Honest post! I hope young wannabe pilots heed it. I've met many airline pilots who love their job, but all say similar things as in the opening post. I'm taking my time, paying my way and not killing myself in debt for this career. And remember, a flying career doesnt = Airline only! fly because you love planes and flying, and not just for the glamour of pilotting 737/747.
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Sorry my friend but saying that the economy is worse than 1929 is just a point of view (for being polite !) 
Were you also a golden boy at that time, then a pilot for 40 years and now you're economist ?
It is true that wen my granda' and dad started to work, it was guaranteed for life (yes, I'm a froggy
) and now it is not. So all ancestors in my perimeter used to told me that now life is unfair and that I'll never get a proper job because it will be different from what they experienced.
Same applies for flying. I am an old (34...) wanabee now, just doing my ATPL by distance learning while working for Airbus at the same time.
1st thing : Becoming rich enough to buy an airplaine is far more unlikely compared to be a pro pilot... Specially in Airbus... (hopefully human resources never read pprune, if they know how to read
)
2nd thing : Jobs in Airlines are maybe difficult to secure over a long time, pilots have to go far from their home for flying but there'll be still the need for young new pilots. Of course, if you dream to be an Air France pilot all your life, it is going to be difficult... Try business aviation !
3rd thing: When you like flying, what's the shame being an CFI for 1200/month ! You've got more chances of being hired as pilot like this rather than waiting in the office and sending CVs (full of examples around me as Airbus is a nest of CPLIR waiting their hour to come)
Understand it has nothing against you but the pessimism you are showing. "It suck now, you should have seen how great it was before, too bad you'll never know"...
Spend your days in the office watching the others flying, you'll understand !
Cheers and Happy Archeology courses !
By the way, 747 are just dinausors now !
Were you also a golden boy at that time, then a pilot for 40 years and now you're economist ?
It is true that wen my granda' and dad started to work, it was guaranteed for life (yes, I'm a froggy
) and now it is not. So all ancestors in my perimeter used to told me that now life is unfair and that I'll never get a proper job because it will be different from what they experienced. Same applies for flying. I am an old (34...) wanabee now, just doing my ATPL by distance learning while working for Airbus at the same time.
1st thing : Becoming rich enough to buy an airplaine is far more unlikely compared to be a pro pilot... Specially in Airbus... (hopefully human resources never read pprune, if they know how to read
) 2nd thing : Jobs in Airlines are maybe difficult to secure over a long time, pilots have to go far from their home for flying but there'll be still the need for young new pilots. Of course, if you dream to be an Air France pilot all your life, it is going to be difficult... Try business aviation !
3rd thing: When you like flying, what's the shame being an CFI for 1200/month ! You've got more chances of being hired as pilot like this rather than waiting in the office and sending CVs (full of examples around me as Airbus is a nest of CPLIR waiting their hour to come)
Understand it has nothing against you but the pessimism you are showing. "It suck now, you should have seen how great it was before, too bad you'll never know"...
Spend your days in the office watching the others flying, you'll understand !
Cheers and Happy Archeology courses !
By the way, 747 are just dinausors now !
Last edited by Ptimat31; 24th Sep 2008 at 14:19.
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Bad attitude, reason for
"I spend my life in front of the TV News from USA, Europe, Asia and South America. BBC, CNN, TV-5, Deutsche Welle, TVE, RAI, NHK in English, TV-Globo, you name it... I read financial newspapers in English, Spanish and French..." Most of the media hacks wouldn't know good news if it bit them on the end of their tender nose. Looking at Google News (compendium of headlines) - Oil is up, oil is down, oil unchanged - same day. Hostages freed, hostages dead, hostages location unknown - also same day. Look at the way they report aircraft incidents "lost 20,000 feet in three seconds! We're all gonna DIE!!", they have NO idea what they are talking about. Why should the quality of their economics reporting or their political reporting be any better? It is the job of the media to GET CIRCULATION so they can justify high ad rates, accuracy in reporting is a casualty of commerce here. And we don't even want to start talking about media bias in politics (all the news that fits we print) . . . I find my attitude is MUCH better when I mostly ignore the news, most of it is incorrectly reported, biased, or just plain wrong. According to them, the world has been going to end time and time again, yet somehow it has not. If you are stuck spending your free time (layovers, etc.) watching CNN, I can certainly understand your unhappiness. The milk from the glass tit is sour in the extreme. The very last people I would let influence my actions and decisions are the media - they quite simply have no idea what they are endlessly talking about. If someone is just starting out in aviation, I say go for it - there's a significant chance you'll be successful, remember you won't have competition from the people who pay close attention to the media - they are all fearfully hiding under their beds. When it is in the history books, you can start to pay attention to it - the daily news is primarily panicked arm-waving and shouting, much ado about nothing. Best Regards, Echo Mike
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Oh yeah?!
Ptimate31, do I understand correctly that instead of a careless, well-paid and safe corporate life you rather have the burden of a considerable debt while earning scrap as a flight instructor?
Please tell me, because that would definitely make me feel less like an idiot.
Ptimate31, do I understand correctly that instead of a careless, well-paid and safe corporate life you rather have the burden of a considerable debt while earning scrap as a flight instructor?
Please tell me, because that would definitely make me feel less like an idiot.
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This must be the only industry where you spend ££££'s and hundreds of hours of study and sacrifice to gain a licence/qualification.
You then spend months, sometimes years searching for that first elusive job, which pays peanuts but you get it eventually.
Its instructing, or its a regional commuter but it is fine for now....
You then spend months or years on the bread line hoping that one day soon your CV will be picked up by the chief pilot of Big Airways.
That day arrives!! Brill! You jack-in your ****ty paid flying job and move onto your big comfy airliner job. The salary is good, the pension is good, the flying is great, every thing is peachy!...This is what i was waiting for and it is every thing i thought it would be.
SIX YEARS getting here, yes SIX YEARS! and now i'm going to enjoy it.
So now i can buy that big house, the nice car, i can now afford to go on holiday at last.
I am still paying off that training loan, but hey, i can now afford it.
3 1/2 years sat fat dumb and happy and WHACK!!!!
No job, no redundancy, nothing but £60.50 per week, job seekers allowance to live on.
I still have the large house, the nice car, the training loan still to be paid etc. But no job to pay for it all!
And now i am back in familiar territory, exactly where i was 6 years ago only with NO money in my pocket!
Where ever i go from here i will be starting at the bottom again,from scratch. This industry is like an incurable drug addiction......It is really bad for you, but you just wanna keep on doing it
I need a cure!
You then spend months, sometimes years searching for that first elusive job, which pays peanuts but you get it eventually.
Its instructing, or its a regional commuter but it is fine for now....
You then spend months or years on the bread line hoping that one day soon your CV will be picked up by the chief pilot of Big Airways.
That day arrives!! Brill! You jack-in your ****ty paid flying job and move onto your big comfy airliner job. The salary is good, the pension is good, the flying is great, every thing is peachy!...This is what i was waiting for and it is every thing i thought it would be.
SIX YEARS getting here, yes SIX YEARS! and now i'm going to enjoy it.
So now i can buy that big house, the nice car, i can now afford to go on holiday at last.
I am still paying off that training loan, but hey, i can now afford it.
3 1/2 years sat fat dumb and happy and WHACK!!!!
No job, no redundancy, nothing but £60.50 per week, job seekers allowance to live on.
I still have the large house, the nice car, the training loan still to be paid etc. But no job to pay for it all!
And now i am back in familiar territory, exactly where i was 6 years ago only with NO money in my pocket!
Where ever i go from here i will be starting at the bottom again,from scratch. This industry is like an incurable drug addiction......It is really bad for you, but you just wanna keep on doing it
I need a cure!
BelArgUSA - fantastic words, quite poetic. I believe there is much truth in what you said.
People will believe what they want to believe, even if, at the back of their mind, they know it's total bull sh*t.
S88
People will believe what they want to believe, even if, at the back of their mind, they know it's total bull sh*t.
S88
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Is it really that bad?
Wise words I'm sure from an experienced guy, however, I can't help thinking that it goes a little too far.
As bad as 1929? If I remember high school history, wasn't inflation well into double figures then with personel savings wiped out over night and people carrying their pay home in wheel barrows, that is if they even had a job? If so, I don't think things are that bad at all, and I read about experts comparing it more to the early 80s.
As bad as 1929? If I remember high school history, wasn't inflation well into double figures then with personel savings wiped out over night and people carrying their pay home in wheel barrows, that is if they even had a job? If so, I don't think things are that bad at all, and I read about experts comparing it more to the early 80s.
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Welcome to the new PERUNE web site
Professional Economist rumour network
What will be will be, who here can now read into the future. "WOW"
seems like some people love bad news but the truth is it's the positive guys that will get your jobs (Because we NEVER give up) while you sit there having a good old moan.
I think you all should cut your losses and get out now.
I will take you future job...no problem...and may I thank you for it now!
Professional Economist rumour network
What will be will be, who here can now read into the future. "WOW"
seems like some people love bad news but the truth is it's the positive guys that will get your jobs (Because we NEVER give up) while you sit there having a good old moan.
I think you all should cut your losses and get out now.
I will take you future job...no problem...and may I thank you for it now!
That's the spirit! Bah!! If all else fails a pig headed refusal to face facts will surely see us through!
Hey ho - Over the top and Tally Ho!
BAH!
WWW (with hat tip to Lord Melchett)
Hey ho - Over the top and Tally Ho!
BAH!
WWW (with hat tip to Lord Melchett)
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You are free to think what you want..(Does not mean that you are right)
And please loose the patronising tone when you dont know the first thing about my future... "But I Do"
Far from going at it PIG headed I wont have any problem getting a RHS thank you very much!!!
Think before you type sir.
And please loose the patronising tone when you dont know the first thing about my future... "But I Do"
Far from going at it PIG headed I wont have any problem getting a RHS thank you very much!!!
Think before you type sir.
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dog.101
I think you do need to have some sense of realism.
The job market is not slow, its not a little bit down on past times, its
DEAD! plain and simple.
If your plan is a 'RHS' in 5-10 years fine. But believe me matey, it won't be sooner than that. Experienced guy's on here are just telling you how it is.FACT.
I do wish you all the luck in the world though.
I think you do need to have some sense of realism.
The job market is not slow, its not a little bit down on past times, its
DEAD! plain and simple.If your plan is a 'RHS' in 5-10 years fine. But believe me matey, it won't be sooner than that. Experienced guy's on here are just telling you how it is.FACT.
I do wish you all the luck in the world though.
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I can tell you now MATEY I will be in a RHS in under 3 months "FACT"
I dont listen to the so called experienced guys on this site I would not really even use this site.. what have i got 4 or 5 posts..I have better things to do with my life than sit at a pc bitching to the world..But I do wish you well with that!!
I live I the real world and listne to my good friends (PILOTS) who are actualy in a position to get me that RHS and I am very privileged to know them.
You see you judged a book by it's cover and you got it wrong and that is the problem with these chat site things, People will end up taking advice from people who think they know what they are talking about
and that is very dangerous to a weak minded person.
Its all about who ya know....Aint It!
Bonne chance
I dont listen to the so called experienced guys on this site I would not really even use this site.. what have i got 4 or 5 posts..I have better things to do with my life than sit at a pc bitching to the world..But I do wish you well with that!!
I live I the real world and listne to my good friends (PILOTS) who are actualy in a position to get me that RHS and I am very privileged to know them.
You see you judged a book by it's cover and you got it wrong and that is the problem with these chat site things, People will end up taking advice from people who think they know what they are talking about
and that is very dangerous to a weak minded person.
Its all about who ya know....Aint It!
Bonne chance