Integrated Courses, You Poor Humans!
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Integrated Courses, You Poor Humans!
With all these qualified and experienced people coming out of busted airlines ( Zoom, XL ) I was wondering how bad it would be for current Integrated students who are halfway through the course or who have paid their deposit and have no choice but to start in the coming weeks or months 
Most of them have probably reduced their parent's equity on the reassurance that a job after the 15 month course is more than likely.
What now then...what do you guys think?
G-XO
Most of them have probably reduced their parent's equity on the reassurance that a job after the 15 month course is more than likely.
What now then...what do you guys think?
G-XO
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Out of interest, how are people finding funding for these courses?
I bet quite a few came from remortgaging their parents houses, but this is becoming a lot harder for people, as are massive secured loans.
Does this mean it is only for the mega rich, and not just the rich now?
I bet quite a few came from remortgaging their parents houses, but this is becoming a lot harder for people, as are massive secured loans.
Does this mean it is only for the mega rich, and not just the rich now?
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G Cexo
Hardly a tactful way of posing the question.
15 months ago things were looking quite rosey, airlines had been hiring in large numbers. Anyone starting back then had a pretty good reason to feel confident.
At least this latest news will have been a wake up call for all but the most insanely optimistic people, the rest can plan accordingly and hold off their training for a while.
15 months ago things were looking quite rosey, airlines had been hiring in large numbers. Anyone starting back then had a pretty good reason to feel confident.
At least this latest news will have been a wake up call for all but the most insanely optimistic people, the rest can plan accordingly and hold off their training for a while.
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Well, I'm about to start an intergrated course with CTC, what do I think? Well thank christ I went to University!
I think we all have to be aware that we cannot predict the future, in 2 years time when I pop out of the intergrated course, what will the industry be like? I also know that this could affect the FTO's, HSBC have stopped doing the loan for CTC cadets as of September and infact all postgraduate loans, and from a friend I have heard BBVA have stopped their loan unless you can guarantee you will have a job (hmmm not likely).
That could mean a reduced amount of fresh pilots, but there could also be a surplus of experienced ones should anymore airlines go bust. (Highly likely)
In reality though as I am aware, you need to have your eyes wide open and have a real and effective backup plan.
Worrying times, but things won't always be like this.
I think we all have to be aware that we cannot predict the future, in 2 years time when I pop out of the intergrated course, what will the industry be like? I also know that this could affect the FTO's, HSBC have stopped doing the loan for CTC cadets as of September and infact all postgraduate loans, and from a friend I have heard BBVA have stopped their loan unless you can guarantee you will have a job (hmmm not likely).
That could mean a reduced amount of fresh pilots, but there could also be a surplus of experienced ones should anymore airlines go bust. (Highly likely)
In reality though as I am aware, you need to have your eyes wide open and have a real and effective backup plan.
Worrying times, but things won't always be like this.
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At the last downturn the majority of students (on integrated) were all airline sponsored.
All the airlines immediately pulled the plug on those course (for ever).
However, today likes of ctc, cabair, fte, oaa, have majority self sponsored students. Its therefore much harder for joe bloggs wannabe to pull plug on their own training. Means by 2010 the fatpl market is going to be over saturated, what with the expected stagnated recruitment.
All the airlines immediately pulled the plug on those course (for ever).
However, today likes of ctc, cabair, fte, oaa, have majority self sponsored students. Its therefore much harder for joe bloggs wannabe to pull plug on their own training. Means by 2010 the fatpl market is going to be over saturated, what with the expected stagnated recruitment.
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It's worth noting that if any school starts offering discounts for making payments up front, be very very cautious.
SFT were offering a 10% discount for up front payment just before they went under. Lots of students lost lots of money
The
SFT were offering a 10% discount for up front payment just before they went under. Lots of students lost lots of money
The
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I personally predict a shortage of potential integrated students applying in the coming year and inevitably a reduced course price. It won't be much maybe by 5-10%.
The Modular school will definately make more money now, possibly on PPL courses as people will be reluctant to spend any further until things blossom again.
Thats my view, it may be right or it may be tits up.
G-XO
The Modular school will definately make more money now, possibly on PPL courses as people will be reluctant to spend any further until things blossom again.
Thats my view, it may be right or it may be tits up.
G-XO
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Well I've never looked down at modulars, so please don't put me in that boat.
I think the main thing is tht wannabees now are seeing the realities of what can happen if it does go wrong. 70k plus is a hell of alot to find. But why would you spend that without a backup? as said above, you can't go paying that bck stacking shelves at Tesco.
I think anyone, modular / intergrated needs to open their eyes and realise that walking onto a shiny jet maybe a pipe dream for a few years. But spicejetter, you're right, the industry / economy is cyclical. It will get better. The question is when and will we all be current?
I think the main thing is tht wannabees now are seeing the realities of what can happen if it does go wrong. 70k plus is a hell of alot to find. But why would you spend that without a backup? as said above, you can't go paying that bck stacking shelves at Tesco.
I think anyone, modular / intergrated needs to open their eyes and realise that walking onto a shiny jet maybe a pipe dream for a few years. But spicejetter, you're right, the industry / economy is cyclical. It will get better. The question is when and will we all be current?
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I think that time will tell like most of you said. I have been pretty lucky and graduated in US, currently working as flight instructor also instrument and earning good money. After 1 year of work all my class mates and I are going back to europe for ATP exams and this will open the doors in both FAA and JAR sides, but still the market is not really good right now, so my options once done, would be to go back to my old job, something new, stay in US for a little more or back to US after the ATP's.
I have notice in my allmost half year of instructing that it also can depend on WHO you know in this industry, unfortunately..
Best of luck to everyone, keep on tight!
I have notice in my allmost half year of instructing that it also can depend on WHO you know in this industry, unfortunately..
Best of luck to everyone, keep on tight!
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Only time will tell whether putting £70K is worth investing or not.
I have just recently passed my pilot assessment with Cabair and they have offered me a place starting on 5 Jan 2009, integrated course. There are quite a few airlines that have gone bankrupt and is not just those in UK. It's happening everwhere such as Oasis airlines (HK), a budget long haul airliner that has gone bankrupt several months ago. If I pass my medical in next 2 weeks time I will still go for the course even by getting a loan of £70K. You may think I am a crazy guy walking off the cliff, but nobody knows what will really happens in the future. Maybe the future will be a good one after students completed their course! Who knows? Or maybe we will be end up in a huge debt and have to live in cr@p hole? The main thing is that I accept the responsibility of whatever I do. Blame no one!
(I did some research and have found out that there are still some airliners continuing to buy aircrafts (large orders). Does this mean these airliners are walking off the cliff too?)
All the best to those who is training to be a pilot. I believe the future is aviation.
David
I have just recently passed my pilot assessment with Cabair and they have offered me a place starting on 5 Jan 2009, integrated course. There are quite a few airlines that have gone bankrupt and is not just those in UK. It's happening everwhere such as Oasis airlines (HK), a budget long haul airliner that has gone bankrupt several months ago. If I pass my medical in next 2 weeks time I will still go for the course even by getting a loan of £70K. You may think I am a crazy guy walking off the cliff, but nobody knows what will really happens in the future. Maybe the future will be a good one after students completed their course! Who knows? Or maybe we will be end up in a huge debt and have to live in cr@p hole? The main thing is that I accept the responsibility of whatever I do. Blame no one!
(I did some research and have found out that there are still some airliners continuing to buy aircrafts (large orders). Does this mean these airliners are walking off the cliff too?)
All the best to those who is training to be a pilot. I believe the future is aviation.
David
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G-XO,
Not the most tactful thread I have ever seen!?!
Effectively nothing has changed. The advise to people considering flight training hasn't changed to last week.
Anyone involved with an integrated course needs to knuckle down and finish the commitment they have already made and not to let the stress and worry of recent events affect their training results, which presumably are of greater importance than ever.
A little tact and support to your future colleagues mightn't go a miss.
Not the most tactful thread I have ever seen!?!
Effectively nothing has changed. The advise to people considering flight training hasn't changed to last week.
Anyone involved with an integrated course needs to knuckle down and finish the commitment they have already made and not to let the stress and worry of recent events affect their training results, which presumably are of greater importance than ever.
A little tact and support to your future colleagues mightn't go a miss.
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Does this mean these airliners are walking off the cliff too?
With the coming winter and economic recession it is better for the airline not to grow and consolidate old for new aircraft being more fuel efficient.
If your 70K gamble is based on this flawed argument for recruitment, i really do wish you the best of luck!!
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I have just recently passed my pilot assessment with Cabair and they have offered me a place starting on 5 Jan 2009, integrated course. There are quite a few airlines that have gone bankrupt and is not just those in UK. It's happening everwhere such as Oasis airlines (HK), a budget long haul airliner that has gone bankrupt several months ago. If I pass my medical in next 2 weeks time I will still go for the course even by getting a loan of £70K. You may think I am a crazy guy walking off the cliff, but nobody knows what will really happens in the future. Maybe the future will be a good one after students completed their course! Who knows? Or maybe we will be end up in a huge debt and have to live in cr@p hole? The main thing is that I accept the responsibility of whatever I do. Blame no one!
G-XO
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Cyclical industries
I was working in a major integrated FTO on 9/11. Complete mayhem.Glad to say I now meet captains with major airlines who were in training at that time. No career/job is for life these days, it is a big investment whichever way you train, nobody denies that but it is long term. The reason most people get into pilot training is because of the desire to fly. Very few people who approach the industry and the training sensibly do not get a good return on their money over their career and have a great working life. I dont understand G-CEXO and his gloating but I will challenge him to revisit this site in 5 years tell everybody what he is doing and be honest about time and money spent on his training (if he is a pilot) and I will introduce him to integrated students in training today and we will compare return on investment. I know who will be in front.
Best of luck G-CEXO but focus on yourself and your ambitions and committment, other people in difficulty will not make your career any better or more enjoyable.
Best of luck G-CEXO but focus on yourself and your ambitions and committment, other people in difficulty will not make your career any better or more enjoyable.
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Notwithstanding the distinct lack of decorum in G CEXOs manner, I’m constantly left wondering what the point in this type of thread is? Is it due to a genuine interest in how aspiring pilots will cope in the current climate or is merely someone who themselves has chosen not to continue their training for the time being, and are desperately seeking assurance from others that they have made the right choice?