Growing Evidence That The Upturn Is Upon Us
How lovely for all Wannabes with SAA licenses with the right to live and work in South Africa.
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because everybody seems to knock the people with dreams, what about the people who accepted these working conditions?
I would suggest as a new poster you go through the hundreds of threads and posts on this matter before asking such questions.
To answer that quote, however, it seems the overly optimistic people who have been accepting these schemes have not helped. I dont want to pass too much judgement on their situation as i am on the other side of ATPL training, and am not in the airline business at the moment. Iit could be that they have been 'forced' to accept after investing a small mortgage in this. It could be argued by some that people are trying to get ahead of the competition by doing this.
It is clear that the bean counters have picked up on the rose tinted rayban wearers and have seen a money spinner.
Personaly i will be over there until we see an improvement, if we ever do! Im heading towards my late 20's now though so a re-evaluation of my own situation may be in order i believe.
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Nice reply Ace of the Skyes! (Sp ?)
No doubt the Pprune community will greatly appreciate the benefits they derive from a Playstation-jockey/probationary Ppruner! From zero to hero in 4 posts..
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Ah but is he BMel?
Or is it simply tigermagicjohn the troll's troll and who recently deleted a large number of his posts during a toy/pram interface episode?
I know just on the writing style.
Rob
Or is it simply tigermagicjohn the troll's troll and who recently deleted a large number of his posts during a toy/pram interface episode?
I know just on the writing style.
Rob
As Alan Partridge would say - ah ha!
I suppose the clue was in the username for a start.
Right. No troll feeding allowed on this thread. DO NOT feed the troll on pain of being shot.
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I suppose the clue was in the username for a start.
Right. No troll feeding allowed on this thread. DO NOT feed the troll on pain of being shot.
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roll up roll up best odds in town
Next airline to go bust – the odds - Telegraph
interesting, if not a bit somber...
didnt know there was a vatican air...thought the pope flew alitalia.
interesting, if not a bit somber...
didnt know there was a vatican air...thought the pope flew alitalia.
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interesting, if not a bit somber...
didnt know there was a vatican air...thought the pope flew alitalia.
didnt know there was a vatican air...thought the pope flew alitalia.
Chairman Nigel Northridge
Nigel Northridge was appointed as a non-executive director in July 2003 and as Chairman on 1 January 2009. He was the Chief Executive of Gallaher Group Plc up to April 2007, when the company was sold to Japan Tobacco. Nigel is also senior independent director of Aggreko plc and a non-executive director of Thomas Cook Group plc and Inchcape plc.
Nigel Northridge was appointed as a non-executive director in July 2003 and as Chairman on 1 January 2009. He was the Chief Executive of Gallaher Group Plc up to April 2007, when the company was sold to Japan Tobacco. Nigel is also senior independent director of Aggreko plc and a non-executive director of Thomas Cook Group plc and Inchcape plc.
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thank you for correcting my spelling error...some people are clearly quite anal...
Non exec directors dont do anything, from my experience of them in my company they rock up 3 times a year, and collect 35-40k for their time. Nice work if you can get it.
Non exec directors dont do anything, from my experience of them in my company they rock up 3 times a year, and collect 35-40k for their time. Nice work if you can get it.
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Originally Posted by wanabe2010
this profession is dead, and anyone (like me) who have been trained, we won't get anything in return except a nice shiny blue book.Who is interested by a 250h pilot???
I Lost my money!
I Lost my money!
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Why is aceoftheskys a troll????? troll=name calling,name calling=BULLYING, not really a good example,
He actually speaks some sense, www it sounds like (plus i've been told) that you got a chip on your shoulder about something,stelios done something to upset you?
oh well,
AD.
He actually speaks some sense, www it sounds like (plus i've been told) that you got a chip on your shoulder about something,stelios done something to upset you?
oh well,
AD.
Look up what an internet troll is. Then start shaving, put 10,000hrs in a logbook and come back to me.
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been getting dragged on for a while...
BBC News - Japan Airlines files for bankruptcy protection
and they were not even on the betting odds i posted above...
and they were not even on the betting odds i posted above...
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It's over!!
BBC News - UK economy emerges from recession
Wooooo!!
It's all over, jobs for all!
The UK economy has come out of recession, after figures showed it had grown by a weaker-than-expected 0.1% in the last three months of 2009.
It's all over, jobs for all!
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From the BBC web site
Iata says airlines suffered 'worst year' in 2009
Iata expects more passengers in 2010
The year 2009 saw the biggest decline in air passenger traffic in the post-war era, according to the International Air Transport Association (Iata).
"In terms of demand, 2009 goes into the history books as the worst year the industry has ever seen," said the group's boss Giovanni Bisignani.
Passenger traffic dropped by 3.5% from a year earlier, while freight traffic fell 10.1% as the downturn hit demand.
However, figures for December showed a rise in traffic of 1.6% on a year ago.
'Spartan year'
Despite the improvement at the end of 2009, Iata said 2010 would be a tough year for airlines the world over.
"The industry starts 2010 with some enormous challenges," Mr Bisignani said.
"The worst is behind us, but it's not time to celebrate. Adjusting to 2.5 to 3.5 years of lost growth means that airlines face another spartan year, focused on matching capacity carefully to demand and controlling costs."
African airlines suffered the most in 2009, with passenger demand down 6.8%.
Asia-Pacific and North American carriers saw demand fall by 5.8%, while European airlines suffered a 5% fall in demand.
But Middle Eastern carriers saw passenger demand climb 11.3%, while Latin American airlines experienced a 0.3% rise.
Price wars
Iata has estimated that airlines collectively lost $11bn (£6.8bn) last year, and stand to lose a further $5.6bn this year.
Analysts said that price cuts designed to attract customers would continue to eat into airlines' profits.
"Continued fare wars between airlines mean that yields and profitability will be low. Airlines are struggling to fill their airplanes and discounted ticketing has done little to alleviate the pressures on their costs," said independent airline analyst Saj Ahmad.
"Capacity has come out of the global airline system, but until a few airlines perhaps exit the industry through bankruptcy or mergers, there is still a very long road until we see serious stability, let alone growth."
Oh and a reminder both Dan Air and Air Europe failed during the recovery from the early 1990's recession.
Iata says airlines suffered 'worst year' in 2009
Iata expects more passengers in 2010
The year 2009 saw the biggest decline in air passenger traffic in the post-war era, according to the International Air Transport Association (Iata).
"In terms of demand, 2009 goes into the history books as the worst year the industry has ever seen," said the group's boss Giovanni Bisignani.
Passenger traffic dropped by 3.5% from a year earlier, while freight traffic fell 10.1% as the downturn hit demand.
However, figures for December showed a rise in traffic of 1.6% on a year ago.
'Spartan year'
Despite the improvement at the end of 2009, Iata said 2010 would be a tough year for airlines the world over.
"The industry starts 2010 with some enormous challenges," Mr Bisignani said.
"The worst is behind us, but it's not time to celebrate. Adjusting to 2.5 to 3.5 years of lost growth means that airlines face another spartan year, focused on matching capacity carefully to demand and controlling costs."
African airlines suffered the most in 2009, with passenger demand down 6.8%.
Asia-Pacific and North American carriers saw demand fall by 5.8%, while European airlines suffered a 5% fall in demand.
But Middle Eastern carriers saw passenger demand climb 11.3%, while Latin American airlines experienced a 0.3% rise.
Price wars
Iata has estimated that airlines collectively lost $11bn (£6.8bn) last year, and stand to lose a further $5.6bn this year.
Analysts said that price cuts designed to attract customers would continue to eat into airlines' profits.
"Continued fare wars between airlines mean that yields and profitability will be low. Airlines are struggling to fill their airplanes and discounted ticketing has done little to alleviate the pressures on their costs," said independent airline analyst Saj Ahmad.
"Capacity has come out of the global airline system, but until a few airlines perhaps exit the industry through bankruptcy or mergers, there is still a very long road until we see serious stability, let alone growth."
Oh and a reminder both Dan Air and Air Europe failed during the recovery from the early 1990's recession.
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I wonder, I have heard of pilots with £80 - £90.000 in pension when they retire, how come they get paid so good when they stop working?
You will NOT get a final salary pension, you will NOT earn the steep allowances and salaries you once would have earned, and you will NOT work 400 hours a year. Those days are long, long gone.
And, grammatically, it is "who doesn't", not "who don't"...
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No wonder airlines struggles.
And NO, no need to go back to 1965, SAS I know have packages like these, £80.000 - £90.000 retirement.
Of course everyone for themselves, I am sure BA, KLM, Lufthansa have similar packages. I know for fact these packages for pilots employed with SAS 80's & 90's so sooner or later it is going to hit the big companies.
This would have been great for all, if it had not meant a complete stop in recruiting with many airlines, because the major ones can not afford these kind of packages anymore. So taking of my tinted spectacles, I know from Scandinavian newspapers, the pilots wanted to extend they retirement age to 64, getting full pay, approx. £120.000 - 130.000 + their pension would start running from the age of 60 - which would only be paid out after retirement, but in practice that meant they would be sitting with approx. £200.000 a year, now isn't that great news for pilots who want to get their first job?
By the way, the pilots lost their case with SAS, and was forced to retire at the predetermined age. (But have appealed, so they are still at work)
Conclusion internal power struggle with younger and older pilots, because result will be/is younger pilots getting fired!!!
Food for thought, for why it is so dire with some of the major airlines, and the pilots who forgot about the next generation!
SAS pilots flying high | IceNews - Daily News
SAS and pilot association reach agreement on redundancies | Easier
"Although Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) is experiencing economic troubles, like many other airlines, the company has affirmed that the employment of its pilots is secure. According to reports in Aftenposten, as many as 1,000 jobs with the airline are in jeopardy; however the pilots’ positions are quite secure. Pilots for the Scandinavian company are, on average, 50 years old. Most pilots are paid between NOK 900,000 to 1.2 million (USD 175,000 to 234,000).
According to reports in the daily newspaper Dagsavisen, the pilots recently signed an agreement with SAS securing their job and salary levels and ensuring that their salary will increase by 12 to 13 percent in the future.
The salary increase translates to a total of NOK 100,000 (USD 20,000) for each individual pilot annually.
According to Jens Lippestad, the union leader for the pilots, the agreement over the pilot’s salaries is “acceptable”. Others, however, might not understand how the airline could have agreed to such a drastic increase in pilots’ wages considering its need to cut costs and scale back."
"The agreement between pilot associations and SAS entails that measures to address the redundancies will be applied to those pilots who have reached the agreed age of retirement as on September 30, 2008. Taking into account periods of notice, this means that employment-termination notices will be issued to about 50 pilots effective September 30, 2008.
SAS pilots who have reached the agreed age of retirement will receive a minimum of approximately SEK 55,000 a month until the statutory age of retirement, at which time pension payments will increase to a least about SEK 70,000 a month."
And NO, no need to go back to 1965, SAS I know have packages like these, £80.000 - £90.000 retirement.
Of course everyone for themselves, I am sure BA, KLM, Lufthansa have similar packages. I know for fact these packages for pilots employed with SAS 80's & 90's so sooner or later it is going to hit the big companies.
This would have been great for all, if it had not meant a complete stop in recruiting with many airlines, because the major ones can not afford these kind of packages anymore. So taking of my tinted spectacles, I know from Scandinavian newspapers, the pilots wanted to extend they retirement age to 64, getting full pay, approx. £120.000 - 130.000 + their pension would start running from the age of 60 - which would only be paid out after retirement, but in practice that meant they would be sitting with approx. £200.000 a year, now isn't that great news for pilots who want to get their first job?
By the way, the pilots lost their case with SAS, and was forced to retire at the predetermined age. (But have appealed, so they are still at work)
Conclusion internal power struggle with younger and older pilots, because result will be/is younger pilots getting fired!!!
Food for thought, for why it is so dire with some of the major airlines, and the pilots who forgot about the next generation!
SAS pilots flying high | IceNews - Daily News
SAS and pilot association reach agreement on redundancies | Easier
"Although Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) is experiencing economic troubles, like many other airlines, the company has affirmed that the employment of its pilots is secure. According to reports in Aftenposten, as many as 1,000 jobs with the airline are in jeopardy; however the pilots’ positions are quite secure. Pilots for the Scandinavian company are, on average, 50 years old. Most pilots are paid between NOK 900,000 to 1.2 million (USD 175,000 to 234,000).
According to reports in the daily newspaper Dagsavisen, the pilots recently signed an agreement with SAS securing their job and salary levels and ensuring that their salary will increase by 12 to 13 percent in the future.
The salary increase translates to a total of NOK 100,000 (USD 20,000) for each individual pilot annually.
According to Jens Lippestad, the union leader for the pilots, the agreement over the pilot’s salaries is “acceptable”. Others, however, might not understand how the airline could have agreed to such a drastic increase in pilots’ wages considering its need to cut costs and scale back."
"The agreement between pilot associations and SAS entails that measures to address the redundancies will be applied to those pilots who have reached the agreed age of retirement as on September 30, 2008. Taking into account periods of notice, this means that employment-termination notices will be issued to about 50 pilots effective September 30, 2008.
SAS pilots who have reached the agreed age of retirement will receive a minimum of approximately SEK 55,000 a month until the statutory age of retirement, at which time pension payments will increase to a least about SEK 70,000 a month."
Last edited by tigermagicjohn; 29th Jan 2010 at 21:56.
British Airways heading for a £1bn loss - Times Online
Jesus, that's bad. That's really really bad.
This is - so - going to be worse than the early 1990's for the airline industry.
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British Airways is heading more than £1 billion of losses during the steepest aviation recession to date.
The UK flag carrier will report deepening losses next week during the third quarter of its financial year — which includes Christmas. It is shaping up as the worst financial year in BA’s history, with losses as much as 50 per cent greater than last year.
The UK flag carrier will report deepening losses next week during the third quarter of its financial year — which includes Christmas. It is shaping up as the worst financial year in BA’s history, with losses as much as 50 per cent greater than last year.
Jesus, that's bad. That's really really bad.
This is - so - going to be worse than the early 1990's for the airline industry.
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I wonder what would be "the new deal"
f/o
500h for 20k
1000h for 35k
capt
500 for 30k
1000h for ....
coming soon, 2000h...