OAT/NetJets Europe Stage 2
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Flexibility is indeed a primary motivation for Modular students, along with the ability to work a bit here and there and cost saving. Flexibility is also the bane for an FTO I suspect, as the administration and scheduling/resource planning is more difficult when selling one module at a time.
The real reason there are few Integrated schools probably lies in the fact that the startup costs are prohibitive and therein lies part of the reason they are more expensive.
For example, in an earlier post, you listed £500 as the price (not cost) for ground school then showed 20 students X £500=10,000.
Ground school takes six months, so you could only pay your instructors £20K per year if you were willing to eat the cost of facilities, NI contributions, insurance, curriculum development, ATPL manuals, electricity, computer systems, etc.
None of this is here nor there to the wannabe. They have choices and can go modular for all the reasons I listed in paragraph 1. Given that the purpose of an FTO is to make money, if Integrated schools were making as much as you say and the cost of opening one were as low as you say, there would be more of them, as there is no shortage of greedy bastards in this world. I just don't think things are as simple as Nichibei logic would have us all believe.
The real reason there are few Integrated schools probably lies in the fact that the startup costs are prohibitive and therein lies part of the reason they are more expensive.
For example, in an earlier post, you listed £500 as the price (not cost) for ground school then showed 20 students X £500=10,000.
Ground school takes six months, so you could only pay your instructors £20K per year if you were willing to eat the cost of facilities, NI contributions, insurance, curriculum development, ATPL manuals, electricity, computer systems, etc.
None of this is here nor there to the wannabe. They have choices and can go modular for all the reasons I listed in paragraph 1. Given that the purpose of an FTO is to make money, if Integrated schools were making as much as you say and the cost of opening one were as low as you say, there would be more of them, as there is no shortage of greedy bastards in this world. I just don't think things are as simple as Nichibei logic would have us all believe.
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Ground school takes six months, so you could only pay your instructors £20K per year if you were willing to eat the cost of facilities, NI contributions, insurance, curriculum development, ATPL manuals, electricity, computer systems, etc.
If an instructor works 40 hours/week, on a single year he'll teach 2000 hours. A ground course lasts 600 hours so he can teach 3 classes, take annual leave and earn more than 30K gross... which is way more than an average uni professor makes on a year.
If there is a new class every 1-2 months, it is perfectly possible.
When you divide the expenses by 20 students, every portion becomes very small. We could use 1000GBP iso 500GBP per student to put more margin into it.
Are you surprised that profit margins are so high?
I don't want to put our rates on here but I'll put the rates of a reasonable flight school in Daytona, FL: http://www.airamericafc.com/renters.php
Note: PA-28 and C-172 have almost the same operating costs.
On these rates the given FL-based school is making profits, so expenses are even lower... why should Arizona be that different?
Last edited by nich-av; 21st Apr 2008 at 12:55.
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which is way more than an average uni professor makes on a year.
Lecturers here get well over 30K a year here, as do a lot of teachers
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Ok, despite being a bit vocal, I don't really want any more to do with this thread (save the amusement it provides). But I will try one last time to clarify at least one point.
The netjets scheme does NOT require the student to pay back €20000 per year.
How you pay for the course and - if a loan is required - pay it back is entirely the students choice. If you happen to have £65000 in small denomination used bank notes lining your mattress, then you can pay that way. If you need a big loan from HSBC or any other lender, you can pay that way. If you need a loan and can somehow afford to, you can pay it back over one year or eleven, it is entirely your choice. Neither Netjets, OAA or HSBC (well, the latter obviously do make some comments and have a say) dictate how much or over what period you pay back.
So, now we've got that cleared up and we're all clear that the student can determine how they pay and over what period they pay back, we get to the Ts & Cs of the NJE contract. BTW, I didn't get in, so I'm not defending it, just adding a dose of realism. The remuneration on offer from NJE to successful applicants to the cadet scheme is €56500. This should be considered as the salary for the scheme. It is the same as direct entrant F/Os are on.
The bonus (or one of) of the scheme is that of this €56500 salary, tax law enables NJE to pay €20000 of it back TO THE STUDENT AS PART OF THEIR NORMAL SALARY tax free, considered as a "reimbursement of training costs". This means that the cadets are better off than someone who enters NJE directly by the amount of taxation one would pay in ones country of residence on €20000 of earnings at the rate applicable to earnings of €56500 - In the UK, this amounts to a benefit of about £4-£4.5k per year.
Clearly, if you have a whacking great loan, then this needs to be serviced out of whatever you take home each month, but if you're slightly better off as a result of the tax loop, then this enables you to pay off the loan quicker (as you have a better take home than someone NOT on the scheme) than otherwise....IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO.
The amount you repay to the bank each month remains your choice.
NA...you appear to have got this point well and truly confused to the point where you think the cadet pays back the €20000 per year to the bank every year for six years...the truth is that you pay back whatever you've agreed to the bank to service your loan for however long you've agreed that loan over....NJE pay YOU the €20000 tax free for about six years, you then move to your whole salary being PAYE. If you have the money to pay for the course up front, my understanding is that you still get the €20000 and are substantially better off.
I hope this clears this point up once and for all....if not, I'm not going to try again....
The netjets scheme does NOT require the student to pay back €20000 per year.
How you pay for the course and - if a loan is required - pay it back is entirely the students choice. If you happen to have £65000 in small denomination used bank notes lining your mattress, then you can pay that way. If you need a big loan from HSBC or any other lender, you can pay that way. If you need a loan and can somehow afford to, you can pay it back over one year or eleven, it is entirely your choice. Neither Netjets, OAA or HSBC (well, the latter obviously do make some comments and have a say) dictate how much or over what period you pay back.
So, now we've got that cleared up and we're all clear that the student can determine how they pay and over what period they pay back, we get to the Ts & Cs of the NJE contract. BTW, I didn't get in, so I'm not defending it, just adding a dose of realism. The remuneration on offer from NJE to successful applicants to the cadet scheme is €56500. This should be considered as the salary for the scheme. It is the same as direct entrant F/Os are on.
The bonus (or one of) of the scheme is that of this €56500 salary, tax law enables NJE to pay €20000 of it back TO THE STUDENT AS PART OF THEIR NORMAL SALARY tax free, considered as a "reimbursement of training costs". This means that the cadets are better off than someone who enters NJE directly by the amount of taxation one would pay in ones country of residence on €20000 of earnings at the rate applicable to earnings of €56500 - In the UK, this amounts to a benefit of about £4-£4.5k per year.
Clearly, if you have a whacking great loan, then this needs to be serviced out of whatever you take home each month, but if you're slightly better off as a result of the tax loop, then this enables you to pay off the loan quicker (as you have a better take home than someone NOT on the scheme) than otherwise....IF YOU CHOOSE TO DO SO.
The amount you repay to the bank each month remains your choice.
NA...you appear to have got this point well and truly confused to the point where you think the cadet pays back the €20000 per year to the bank every year for six years...the truth is that you pay back whatever you've agreed to the bank to service your loan for however long you've agreed that loan over....NJE pay YOU the €20000 tax free for about six years, you then move to your whole salary being PAYE. If you have the money to pay for the course up front, my understanding is that you still get the €20000 and are substantially better off.
I hope this clears this point up once and for all....if not, I'm not going to try again....
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Clanger, I think that the vast majority will take up a loan.
1.NJE can't give you 20K tax free if you don't have a loan running on your training, that is purely illegal or in the right terms: fraud. They can only give you a tax free salary (even 100% depending on the country) during the same fiscal year as the training is/was paid for.
2.The amount of yearly repayments can not be lower than 20K, for the same reason as 1. though you can decide to repay more than 20K each year, which would be in your disadvantage.
1.NJE can't give you 20K tax free if you don't have a loan running on your training, that is purely illegal or in the right terms: fraud. They can only give you a tax free salary (even 100% depending on the country) during the same fiscal year as the training is/was paid for.
2.The amount of yearly repayments can not be lower than 20K, for the same reason as 1. though you can decide to repay more than 20K each year, which would be in your disadvantage.
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Nichibei,
I think that you are wrong on both counts.
First, I think the relevant section of tax code is ITEPA section 250 and 251. This is the UK Income Tax Earnings and Pensions Act of 2003. It is a cryptic document, as Parliament's Bills tend to be.
I actually found that document by finding this one first, which refers to ITEPA section 250 and 251: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM01235.htm
Note: This document is a bulletin clarifying what will and will not pass the tax inspector's sniff test based on precedent's set by a legal case.
The document makes four points, "...there will be some cases where the link between the employment and the pre-commencement training will be so strong that the reimbursement will qualify for exemption under Section 250. For example, if an individual has accepted an employment offer from a new employer, to start work in the reasonably near future, and the individual then pays for training relevant to the job, exemption will be due if the employer agrees to reimburse the costs after the employment has begun."
Nothing could be stronger than the fact that one can't fly for NetJets unless one has an fATPL. There is ample evidence in a few older threads on this forum and on OAAs forum that the cadets do get a rather lengthy contract before they start training. I suspect the fact that they get a few weeks leave at the end of the course before starting their Type Rating probably qualifies as "reasonably near future" in the eyes of Inland Revenue.
There is absolutely nothing in any of the documents above that ties the tax relief to a loan.
Just because you think it isn't right or that it is fraud, doesn't make it so. Lots of nations use tax incentives to promote investments that the government thinks will stimulate the economy or enhance the educational status of citizens to keep said nation competitive in the global marketplace. The UK doesn't have many such incentives, but this certainly appears to be one of the few.
I think that you are wrong on both counts.
First, I think the relevant section of tax code is ITEPA section 250 and 251. This is the UK Income Tax Earnings and Pensions Act of 2003. It is a cryptic document, as Parliament's Bills tend to be.
I actually found that document by finding this one first, which refers to ITEPA section 250 and 251: http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM01235.htm
Note: This document is a bulletin clarifying what will and will not pass the tax inspector's sniff test based on precedent's set by a legal case.
The document makes four points, "...there will be some cases where the link between the employment and the pre-commencement training will be so strong that the reimbursement will qualify for exemption under Section 250. For example, if an individual has accepted an employment offer from a new employer, to start work in the reasonably near future, and the individual then pays for training relevant to the job, exemption will be due if the employer agrees to reimburse the costs after the employment has begun."
Nothing could be stronger than the fact that one can't fly for NetJets unless one has an fATPL. There is ample evidence in a few older threads on this forum and on OAAs forum that the cadets do get a rather lengthy contract before they start training. I suspect the fact that they get a few weeks leave at the end of the course before starting their Type Rating probably qualifies as "reasonably near future" in the eyes of Inland Revenue.
There is absolutely nothing in any of the documents above that ties the tax relief to a loan.
Just because you think it isn't right or that it is fraud, doesn't make it so. Lots of nations use tax incentives to promote investments that the government thinks will stimulate the economy or enhance the educational status of citizens to keep said nation competitive in the global marketplace. The UK doesn't have many such incentives, but this certainly appears to be one of the few.
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Adios,
And he wonders why people mock him? I have previously posted links to HMRC which are blissfully ignored in a quest for misinformation.
He is actually doing NJE a favour as he is effectively the first stage of the selection process. If you are taken in by his postings then you have no right to be in a cockpit making command decisions and probably should be phoning for the white jackets and rubber wall paper hotel room.
And he wonders why people mock him? I have previously posted links to HMRC which are blissfully ignored in a quest for misinformation.
He is actually doing NJE a favour as he is effectively the first stage of the selection process. If you are taken in by his postings then you have no right to be in a cockpit making command decisions and probably should be phoning for the white jackets and rubber wall paper hotel room.
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Hollingworthp,
That is a very subtle way of telling me I am wasting my time. It is a very good point though. Where would we be without the amusement and what would we do with our bags of salt otherwise?
That is a very subtle way of telling me I am wasting my time. It is a very good point though. Where would we be without the amusement and what would we do with our bags of salt otherwise?
Last edited by Adios; 21st Apr 2008 at 22:10.
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from stewa
Hi Adam,
I'm a cabin crew which would like to be a pilot working for the net jet. A am a 25 year old woman. You think will be hard for me to get a job there as a pilot?
I will appricciate your help.
Ewa
I'm a cabin crew which would like to be a pilot working for the net jet. A am a 25 year old woman. You think will be hard for me to get a job there as a pilot?
I will appricciate your help.
Ewa
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Ewa
I'll answer that as well if I may - I would say go for it. There is an ex-stewardess from Air France on my intake and I know of a Lufthansa guy and probably there are others too.
Regards
-------
PS - Adios - yes I think the implication was there
He can be a bit like a terrier at times and I would not be surprised by another amusing response shortly 
. To be fair, on other threads he seems to post opinions and everyone is entitled to those, but the NJE scheme seems to attract a special kind of attention 
I'll answer that as well if I may - I would say go for it. There is an ex-stewardess from Air France on my intake and I know of a Lufthansa guy and probably there are others too.
Regards
-------
PS - Adios - yes I think the implication was there
He can be a bit like a terrier at times and I would not be surprised by another amusing response shortly . To be fair, on other threads he seems to post opinions and everyone is entitled to those, but the NJE scheme seems to attract a special kind of attention
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1.Ok...it says under "exceptions": "there are some cases".
2.Not often is there a training worth over 60K... and these exemptions are generally only valid for the first fiscal year with an employer.
They are never transposable over different years unless a loan comes in.
The same with your home.
You pay your home cash, tax exemptions for the first year, nothing for the next years. You pay your home on a mortgage, exemptions on every fiscal year.
Pull me out the Portuguese equivalent of that law article and I'll believe you.
Remember, in the airline world you are paid and work under labour laws of the country where the actual management of the airline takes place, not where you live.
I would be very surprised to see an equivalent article.
2.Not often is there a training worth over 60K... and these exemptions are generally only valid for the first fiscal year with an employer.
They are never transposable over different years unless a loan comes in.
The same with your home.
You pay your home cash, tax exemptions for the first year, nothing for the next years. You pay your home on a mortgage, exemptions on every fiscal year.
Pull me out the Portuguese equivalent of that law article and I'll believe you.
Remember, in the airline world you are paid and work under labour laws of the country where the actual management of the airline takes place, not where you live.
I would be very surprised to see an equivalent article.
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How cool would it be if there was a UK management company with pilots operating under a UK based contract ... whoa .. hang on ... that's what there is .... its almost as though someone at NetJets knows what they are doing ... surely that cannot be the case ... cant it??? 
No - I imagine that someone who clearly has no idea of the operating structure of a company is much more likely to be correct - isn't that right NA?
No - I imagine that someone who clearly has no idea of the operating structure of a company is much more likely to be correct - isn't that right NA?
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Hollingworthp,
[sarcasm]You mean to tell me those Berkshire Hathaway people have done more homework on this than Nichibei has? NEVER! He is not only singlehandedly the most knowledgeable expert on all matters of worldwide FTO cost structure and pricing, but the premiere expert on global employment law and a tax, loan and financial planning expert to boot. Warren Buffet's army of lawyers and managers can't hold a candle to him. Nichibei Aviation is wasting his talent in BizDev. Clearly he should be running the whole company. In fact, Warren Buffet is losing it and his company will be in decline soon, because he has missed this hidden pool of talent and expertise that he should have hired ages ago.
You are a fool Hollingworthp, because you have been suckered in by shiny brochures and lies and your NetJets contract is the biggest one of all. Take it from Nich-av, you are in for a very rude awakening when the house of cards comes tumbling down around your feet. The only good news for you is that once Buffet realizes his mistake and hires Nich-av, there will be a new position open for you and the other hundreds of misled wannabes to compete fight over.[/sarcasm]*
*HTML humor def tags attributed to Clanger32
[sarcasm]You mean to tell me those Berkshire Hathaway people have done more homework on this than Nichibei has? NEVER! He is not only singlehandedly the most knowledgeable expert on all matters of worldwide FTO cost structure and pricing, but the premiere expert on global employment law and a tax, loan and financial planning expert to boot. Warren Buffet's army of lawyers and managers can't hold a candle to him. Nichibei Aviation is wasting his talent in BizDev. Clearly he should be running the whole company. In fact, Warren Buffet is losing it and his company will be in decline soon, because he has missed this hidden pool of talent and expertise that he should have hired ages ago.
You are a fool Hollingworthp, because you have been suckered in by shiny brochures and lies and your NetJets contract is the biggest one of all. Take it from Nich-av, you are in for a very rude awakening when the house of cards comes tumbling down around your feet. The only good news for you is that once Buffet realizes his mistake and hires Nich-av, there will be a new position open for you and the other hundreds of misled wannabes to compete fight over.[/sarcasm]*
*HTML humor def tags attributed to Clanger32
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well i was hoping for a bit of stage 2 advice on here.....
but it seems we all just want to moan about finance. Lets get a grip and focus on how we can get the job before we start wingeing about if we are making good money or just pretty good money
but it seems we all just want to moan about finance. Lets get a grip and focus on how we can get the job before we start wingeing about if we are making good money or just pretty good money
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In addition to the security of employment with NetJets Europe, successful OAA/NetJets candidates will benefit from a special cadet entry First Officer salary programme. In addition to a cadet entry salary of €36,500 per annum, NetJets Europe will also pay those selected for the cadet programme a further €20,000 pa towards repayment of any training costs until such time that the course training costs have been repaid (€56,500 in total for your first year of employment). It is anticipated a full training cost reimbursement will be paid off within 5-6 years of employment with NetJets Europe, at which time the cadet entry First Officer switches to the First Officer salary scale with accrued company seniority from date of joining the airline.
For cadet entry First Officers resident in the UK on entry into the airline, we have been advised by the Inland Revenue that course training cost repayment may be from gross salary i.e. before tax. For cadets resident outside of the UK during the repayment period the deductions will be made from net salary i.e. after tax.
For cadet entry First Officers resident in the UK on entry into the airline, we have been advised by the Inland Revenue that course training cost repayment may be from gross salary i.e. before tax. For cadets resident outside of the UK during the repayment period the deductions will be made from net salary i.e. after tax.
Ok what do we read here?
1.Inland Revenue?? Since when does the UK inland revenue involve salaries and taxes paid in Euro in Portugal? I would love to know how they managed to do that. If it were British Airways I would believe it, but Netjets? If they can do it with NJE, why don't they do it with Thomas Cook, Flybe and other UK airlines?
2.What does "(€56,500 in total for your first year of employment)" mean?
3.Doesn't repayment mean "loan repayment"?
My interpretation of the underlined section: no loan=no tax-free 20K.
Find answers to all these 3 questions and I'll give you a thumbs up and I'll still keep telling you that it's expensive. Last rumours in the office are that our CEO is looking to sell JAA for 35K euro from next year...
I don't claim that OAA is doing anything illegal. But those who have passed the selections should be asking these questions. I wouldn't love to be told 2 years after start that there has been a mistake...
A good example illustrating that it's not because a big organisation is involved that anything it claims is true: did you all know that fuel surcharges are illegal? Not long ago BA was fined half a billion for applying surcharges over the Atlantic...
Last edited by nich-av; 22nd Apr 2008 at 16:50.
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NichAv....
1/ You're quite right. The UK Customs and revenue bods probably don't give three hairy flying monkeys about salaries paid in Euro from a Portugese company. However they WILL care about salaries paid, in whatever denomination, to UK pilots based on a UK contract with a UK holding company. This, if you believe HollingworthP - who has seen, read, had checked out by a legal expert and signed the NJE cadet contract, is what the UK cadets are on. Hence, it is squarely under revenue and customs (can't remember their new moniker accurately for now!) beady eyes. If you take in the first hand information you are given rather than just believing whatever flight of fancy you choose to believe, then we'll get a lot closer to getting an accurate picture.....
2/ It simply means that the total remuneration NJE will pay in the first year is €56500. This is split into a nominal €36500 of salary and an additional €20000 which is termed "repayment of training costs". Doing it this way is clearly so they can offer the tax break.
3/ Repayment does NOT mean LOAN repayment....it means repayment of training costs, which if you read the post by Adios earlier regarding the relevant legislation....oohh...hang on, yes...it looks like that's EXACTLY what that piece of legislation says....uncanny that...
The repayment amount is reimbursement of training costs....the individual can use that extra lump to bolster their income, or repay their loan...choice is theirs.
On the other comments....I don't think anyone is in any doubt that integrated costs more than modular. I don't think anyone is in any doubt that OAA is at the high end of that market. The problem in this, particular thread, is that you are arguing points that have been shown to be incorrect. The relevant legislation has been posted. People that have read the contracts and had them checked by lawyers have refuted your arguments, even current serving Netjets captains, yet you still insist you are right, despite not even being on the same continent. For the sake of your own credibility and that of the organisation you represent, please, please, please show the grace to admit that you don't know about this. No-one will think worse of you for saying "sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick" or just plain ol' "I don't know about that" but to continue arguing blatantly incorrect points, insisting you know all about UK tax law and the complexities of a sponsorship programme set up between two companies you don't know anything about is pure folly.
P.s.
[thanks]Adios[/thanks]
1/ You're quite right. The UK Customs and revenue bods probably don't give three hairy flying monkeys about salaries paid in Euro from a Portugese company. However they WILL care about salaries paid, in whatever denomination, to UK pilots based on a UK contract with a UK holding company. This, if you believe HollingworthP - who has seen, read, had checked out by a legal expert and signed the NJE cadet contract, is what the UK cadets are on. Hence, it is squarely under revenue and customs (can't remember their new moniker accurately for now!) beady eyes. If you take in the first hand information you are given rather than just believing whatever flight of fancy you choose to believe, then we'll get a lot closer to getting an accurate picture.....
2/ It simply means that the total remuneration NJE will pay in the first year is €56500. This is split into a nominal €36500 of salary and an additional €20000 which is termed "repayment of training costs". Doing it this way is clearly so they can offer the tax break.
3/ Repayment does NOT mean LOAN repayment....it means repayment of training costs, which if you read the post by Adios earlier regarding the relevant legislation....oohh...hang on, yes...it looks like that's EXACTLY what that piece of legislation says....uncanny that...
The repayment amount is reimbursement of training costs....the individual can use that extra lump to bolster their income, or repay their loan...choice is theirs.
On the other comments....I don't think anyone is in any doubt that integrated costs more than modular. I don't think anyone is in any doubt that OAA is at the high end of that market. The problem in this, particular thread, is that you are arguing points that have been shown to be incorrect. The relevant legislation has been posted. People that have read the contracts and had them checked by lawyers have refuted your arguments, even current serving Netjets captains, yet you still insist you are right, despite not even being on the same continent. For the sake of your own credibility and that of the organisation you represent, please, please, please show the grace to admit that you don't know about this. No-one will think worse of you for saying "sorry, I got the wrong end of the stick" or just plain ol' "I don't know about that" but to continue arguing blatantly incorrect points, insisting you know all about UK tax law and the complexities of a sponsorship programme set up between two companies you don't know anything about is pure folly.
P.s.
[thanks]Adios[/thanks]
Last edited by clanger32; 22nd Apr 2008 at 19:04.
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Clanger32, if you can guarrantee that why don't you give your name and address and add a statement saying that you'll pay for any inconvenience in taxes to these prospective students during their first 5 years of recruitment at NJE?
I'm ready to play the credibility game, it's your turn to throw the dices now.
There's 3 companies involved: NJE, OAA and "a holding".
Is it legal to defer taxes to another country through a holding?
I guess the UK fisc will be very happy for bringing taxes to its country but is the portuguese fisc alright with that? EU law says that you need to pay taxes where your airline's actual management takes place.
I'm aware that there's a UK contract...indeed which says that the working day starts at the UK airport where you're based at... Portugal can contest that anytime they want!! In fact France is contesting already: why would it be ok in the UK and not in France? It doesn't make sense.
It has been proved that it's not ok in France:
http://www.ainonline.com/news/single...ash=2efe2cd052
A good forum for you: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4029549
More specially this post:
Wait till someone in the EU/EASA starts cleaning up this mess before claiming that you're sure about what you say. No one has even graduated this scheme... how can you know that it's all gonna be alright?
I'm ready to play the credibility game, it's your turn to throw the dices now.
There's 3 companies involved: NJE, OAA and "a holding".
Is it legal to defer taxes to another country through a holding?
I guess the UK fisc will be very happy for bringing taxes to its country but is the portuguese fisc alright with that? EU law says that you need to pay taxes where your airline's actual management takes place.
I'm aware that there's a UK contract...indeed which says that the working day starts at the UK airport where you're based at... Portugal can contest that anytime they want!! In fact France is contesting already: why would it be ok in the UK and not in France? It doesn't make sense.
It has been proved that it's not ok in France:
http://www.ainonline.com/news/single...ash=2efe2cd052
A good forum for you: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?p=4029549
More specially this post:
The tax subject as usual is a sensitive subject. Win or loose , have to come from a previous status. If you join , you will not loose because you will get what you signed for.
Now, if you choose a flying career according to the size of the payslip, you will have a poor day and a dull life. ANY flying is good if you can enjoy it. It is all about lifestyle and ego satisfaction. 1 prop , 2 PT6, 3 TFE731 or 4 RR5000 ? It is all the same..
Your best bet is to live where you will comfortable, with the persons you love the most and have a little bit of money to enjoy the package. If you can meet this lucky you, if not....
Many stories about the taxes, the facts as today are :
You sign a UK based contract with Netjets Staff Management
You live in a european country ( not UK or Portugal)
You are taxed at source at a 20% rate, witheld on your pay slip
You pay NHS in UK circa 5000€/ year
You receive your work schedule by Netjets Transportes Aeros
You receive a statement from the portuguese authorities on how much taxes were paid on your behalf in portugal.
What you do or not do with all this is as always up to you. Polemics and rumours can go , the lawyers have opinions, remember they are only advisors, only a judge can rule; so until a courtcase eventually shows up from an individual. It is like this...
Now, if you choose a flying career according to the size of the payslip, you will have a poor day and a dull life. ANY flying is good if you can enjoy it. It is all about lifestyle and ego satisfaction. 1 prop , 2 PT6, 3 TFE731 or 4 RR5000 ? It is all the same..
Your best bet is to live where you will comfortable, with the persons you love the most and have a little bit of money to enjoy the package. If you can meet this lucky you, if not....
Many stories about the taxes, the facts as today are :
You sign a UK based contract with Netjets Staff Management
You live in a european country ( not UK or Portugal)
You are taxed at source at a 20% rate, witheld on your pay slip
You pay NHS in UK circa 5000€/ year
You receive your work schedule by Netjets Transportes Aeros
You receive a statement from the portuguese authorities on how much taxes were paid on your behalf in portugal.
What you do or not do with all this is as always up to you. Polemics and rumours can go , the lawyers have opinions, remember they are only advisors, only a judge can rule; so until a courtcase eventually shows up from an individual. It is like this...
Last edited by nich-av; 22nd Apr 2008 at 20:54.
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Nich-av,
You betray great ignorance of the industry you try to pass yourself off as supremely knowledgeable about. NetJets does have a UK holding company that their UK pilots work for. I am sure it must puzzle you as to why they would bother. Said company existed long before they offered a cadet programme, so it was not set up to take advantage of ITEPA 250 and 251 for cadets.
NJE have a lot of UK owners. They conduct a lot of maintenance in the UK. They buy a lot of fuel here. If the UK were on the Euro, they would not need a holding company. It would be utterly ridiculous however for them to take UK Sterling revenue from sales and put it in Euro accounts in Portugal and expose these funds to currency risk, then turn around and pay it back to UK FBOs and maintenance and caterers and pilots in Pounds and take a second exchange rate hit. A holding company is the best solution.
So there you have the three answers you asked for as well as the logic behind one of them.
To those who seek info on Stage 2, look here: http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewforum.php?f=44
and here: http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewforum.php?f=47
and here: http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewforum.php?f=39
You betray great ignorance of the industry you try to pass yourself off as supremely knowledgeable about. NetJets does have a UK holding company that their UK pilots work for. I am sure it must puzzle you as to why they would bother. Said company existed long before they offered a cadet programme, so it was not set up to take advantage of ITEPA 250 and 251 for cadets.
NJE have a lot of UK owners. They conduct a lot of maintenance in the UK. They buy a lot of fuel here. If the UK were on the Euro, they would not need a holding company. It would be utterly ridiculous however for them to take UK Sterling revenue from sales and put it in Euro accounts in Portugal and expose these funds to currency risk, then turn around and pay it back to UK FBOs and maintenance and caterers and pilots in Pounds and take a second exchange rate hit. A holding company is the best solution.
So there you have the three answers you asked for as well as the logic behind one of them.
To those who seek info on Stage 2, look here: http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewforum.php?f=44
and here: http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewforum.php?f=47
and here: http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewforum.php?f=39