JAA ATPL Distance Learning Ground School
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 8
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From: UK
Originally Posted by mcgoo
speak to Alex at Bristol Ground School www.bristol.gs he will be able to help i'm sure
Cheers,
DRS PILOT
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 337
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From: Midlands
ATPLs - Full time study or distance learning?
Hi everyone,
Some advice please from folks who've gone down this route already - particularly anyone doing their ATPLs 'full-time' at home.
I'm planning on starting my ATPLs in August/September and am not sure at the moment whether to do a full-time classroon-based course or distance learning. Preference at the moment is to go for the latter (with BGS), but having spent the last three months at home doing the seven PPL exams, I'm seriously wondering whether I should be looking to do a full-time course.
Putting costs, choice of training establishments etc to one side for the moment (this thread is NOT intended to kick off another debate on the relative merits of BGS v other schools
) what from people's experiences are the big +pluses and -minuses of each method of studying?
For example:
Has anyone gone down the distance learning route and wished in hindsight they'd done the course full-time, or vice versa? If so, why?
For home-based learners, how have you kept yourself focused and motivated? Have you missed day-to-day contact with people (I found the PPL exams a very solitary experience)?
Has anyone on a full-time course found themselves held back by 'slower learners'? Would you have preferred the flexibility of home-based learning?
Whilst I know the decision is ultimately mine at the end of the day, any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
HW
Some advice please from folks who've gone down this route already - particularly anyone doing their ATPLs 'full-time' at home.
I'm planning on starting my ATPLs in August/September and am not sure at the moment whether to do a full-time classroon-based course or distance learning. Preference at the moment is to go for the latter (with BGS), but having spent the last three months at home doing the seven PPL exams, I'm seriously wondering whether I should be looking to do a full-time course.
Putting costs, choice of training establishments etc to one side for the moment (this thread is NOT intended to kick off another debate on the relative merits of BGS v other schools
) what from people's experiences are the big +pluses and -minuses of each method of studying?For example:
Has anyone gone down the distance learning route and wished in hindsight they'd done the course full-time, or vice versa? If so, why?
For home-based learners, how have you kept yourself focused and motivated? Have you missed day-to-day contact with people (I found the PPL exams a very solitary experience)?
Has anyone on a full-time course found themselves held back by 'slower learners'? Would you have preferred the flexibility of home-based learning?
Whilst I know the decision is ultimately mine at the end of the day, any thoughts on the matter would be greatly appreciated.
HW
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 301
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From: Uk
Hi Happy Wanderer.
I was in exactly the same situation about 5 months ago, as I had planned on going to London Met to do the ATPL while at the same time thought about BGS.
I ended up making the decision of going for BGS for a number of reasons.
1) I could start the course when I wanted rather than when the full time school started.
2) I could work at a pace that suited me again rather than what the full time course did
3) I could work from home and fit my hour building in around it. IE if the weather was good in the morning, fly then study in the afternoon.
4) The time scale of Distance learning means that , working hard I can have the 14 exams sat in 5 months rather than the 8-10 months the full time courses give.
Having just sat the mod 1 exams for BGS I can honestly say that I made the right choice, the course with bristol was 1st class, Alex and all the teachers there really know their stuff, and I mean really really know their stuff. The back up and support is fantastic.
Although the 2 week refresher course was Bloody hard work, it was great fun and Tom who takes the Flight planning classes is an absolute legend, If I don't remember anything else I will remember his stories...
The way I see it is, If you want an airline job bad enough then you need to work hard, BGS supply you with everything you need to suceed, so all you need to do is put in the effort and you can't but not do well.....
How have I and am keeping focused? It's my money & my future that I'm putting on the line, that's enough for me.
And in hindsight would I have gone another route? Absolutely not.
The bottom line is you have to do what is right and best for you but what ever that is make sure it's 100%....Good luck either way.
I was in exactly the same situation about 5 months ago, as I had planned on going to London Met to do the ATPL while at the same time thought about BGS.
I ended up making the decision of going for BGS for a number of reasons.
1) I could start the course when I wanted rather than when the full time school started.
2) I could work at a pace that suited me again rather than what the full time course did
3) I could work from home and fit my hour building in around it. IE if the weather was good in the morning, fly then study in the afternoon.
4) The time scale of Distance learning means that , working hard I can have the 14 exams sat in 5 months rather than the 8-10 months the full time courses give.
Having just sat the mod 1 exams for BGS I can honestly say that I made the right choice, the course with bristol was 1st class, Alex and all the teachers there really know their stuff, and I mean really really know their stuff. The back up and support is fantastic.
Although the 2 week refresher course was Bloody hard work, it was great fun and Tom who takes the Flight planning classes is an absolute legend, If I don't remember anything else I will remember his stories...
The way I see it is, If you want an airline job bad enough then you need to work hard, BGS supply you with everything you need to suceed, so all you need to do is put in the effort and you can't but not do well.....
How have I and am keeping focused? It's my money & my future that I'm putting on the line, that's enough for me.
And in hindsight would I have gone another route? Absolutely not.
The bottom line is you have to do what is right and best for you but what ever that is make sure it's 100%....Good luck either way.
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 776
Likes: 0
From: In my own little world
I am self studying with BGS along with working full time.
The ATPL ground school was always going to be my weakest area, and I really wanted to take it as a full time course, but couldn't afford to take the time off work to do it, so I have had to opt for the self study route.
If I'm in a class room environment, I'm fine with study and take it in and get on with it, but when I'm left to my own devices, I'll do anything rather than study - heck I've even done ironing !!.
I just can't seem to get into it when I'm at home as there are too many distractions such as the TV, PC, X-Box, G/F etc. The only time I have been doing any study is when I have been working nights, so I have only been doing about 2-4 hours a week and I'm now not working nights anymore, so not been doing any the last couple of weeks.
I know this isn't going to get me a seat in a nice shiny jet, but I've got 2 months working overseas coming up in which I plan to take all my stuff with me as I'll be stuck in a compound when I'm not working with little else to do, and a load of qualified ATPL's on tap
. I'm hoping I will be able to plough through most of it during that time.
I have been toying with the idea of jacking the self study in and taking the 6 months off work and paying to go on a full time course, but I can't justify the extra expense at this stage - I could if I knew for certain there was a job waiting, but alas there isn't so I have to keep a cash flow coming in whilst still keeping costs down.
It depends on your own study style, some people (like me) just cannot self study, some can. Weigh the costs of both up including the time and make your decision from there.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
The ATPL ground school was always going to be my weakest area, and I really wanted to take it as a full time course, but couldn't afford to take the time off work to do it, so I have had to opt for the self study route.
If I'm in a class room environment, I'm fine with study and take it in and get on with it, but when I'm left to my own devices, I'll do anything rather than study - heck I've even done ironing !!.
I just can't seem to get into it when I'm at home as there are too many distractions such as the TV, PC, X-Box, G/F etc. The only time I have been doing any study is when I have been working nights, so I have only been doing about 2-4 hours a week and I'm now not working nights anymore, so not been doing any the last couple of weeks.
I know this isn't going to get me a seat in a nice shiny jet, but I've got 2 months working overseas coming up in which I plan to take all my stuff with me as I'll be stuck in a compound when I'm not working with little else to do, and a load of qualified ATPL's on tap
. I'm hoping I will be able to plough through most of it during that time.I have been toying with the idea of jacking the self study in and taking the 6 months off work and paying to go on a full time course, but I can't justify the extra expense at this stage - I could if I knew for certain there was a job waiting, but alas there isn't so I have to keep a cash flow coming in whilst still keeping costs down.
It depends on your own study style, some people (like me) just cannot self study, some can. Weigh the costs of both up including the time and make your decision from there.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
From: The Moon
HW,
be a little cautious. I think Littco may be a little off the mark with his statement of the time scale for the DL course. I understand that CAP 682 (the CAA publication on approvals) states that unless a student is exempt the training requirements, then there is a minimum time scale involved, that must equate to a 650 hr course. (approx 6 months for the entire course)
I haven't looked at 682 for some time, but to my knowledge, it's there, so you might want to consider that if you are looking for speed (which isn't everything btw). Ask Alex if in doubt. He will tell you.
Meaning no disrespect Littco, but how long have you been studying your first set of subjects? You mentioned that 5 months ago you had the same difficult choice to make, you now you have just finished the first round. Is that because you didn't start 5 months ago?
HW, my advice is to choose a course based on your self discipline. If you might get distracted by the TV / Pub / etc, take the residential. In the long run it will be quicker. Remember, if you fail 1 exam, you add 1-2 months to the overall time before completion, as you can never resit the next month even if the CAA accepted your application. If you failed it in May, why would you be ready for it in June? See what I'm saying?
Your choice, but I could never do DL. Aways admire those who can and do, though.
IBR
be a little cautious. I think Littco may be a little off the mark with his statement of the time scale for the DL course. I understand that CAP 682 (the CAA publication on approvals) states that unless a student is exempt the training requirements, then there is a minimum time scale involved, that must equate to a 650 hr course. (approx 6 months for the entire course)
I haven't looked at 682 for some time, but to my knowledge, it's there, so you might want to consider that if you are looking for speed (which isn't everything btw). Ask Alex if in doubt. He will tell you.
Meaning no disrespect Littco, but how long have you been studying your first set of subjects? You mentioned that 5 months ago you had the same difficult choice to make, you now you have just finished the first round. Is that because you didn't start 5 months ago?
HW, my advice is to choose a course based on your self discipline. If you might get distracted by the TV / Pub / etc, take the residential. In the long run it will be quicker. Remember, if you fail 1 exam, you add 1-2 months to the overall time before completion, as you can never resit the next month even if the CAA accepted your application. If you failed it in May, why would you be ready for it in June? See what I'm saying?
Your choice, but I could never do DL. Aways admire those who can and do, though.
IBR
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Posts: n/a
Self study is a good route to go. You can take it in your own time and then attend a brush up at the end to help with anything you're stuck on!
I am doing the Bristol Groundschool- their pass rate is fantastic and the brushups really get you ready for the exams.
Depends on other commitments. I work full time so full groundschool was not really an option, but I don't think you need it anyway.
It won't necessarily take longer to do distance learning if you have the discipline to study. I know I guy who did the first 8 in 2 months and passed them all no problem.
Good luck whichever way you go!
I am doing the Bristol Groundschool- their pass rate is fantastic and the brushups really get you ready for the exams.
Depends on other commitments. I work full time so full groundschool was not really an option, but I don't think you need it anyway.
It won't necessarily take longer to do distance learning if you have the discipline to study. I know I guy who did the first 8 in 2 months and passed them all no problem.
Good luck whichever way you go!
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 115
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From: UK
If you can afford the time off from earning at the 'day job' then full time seems a very good option. Unfortunately not all of us have that luxury either in time or finances.
Having just finished all 14 DL it is hard work to motivate yourself at the end of a hard days (or nights) work. I used overnight shifts to get me on track. Not much else to do when incarcerated at work on a nine hour shift when there's not even access to the internet, oh and no work to do! But there are a few who have done DL at home full time and just sat down and got on with it.
Ultimately it's going to be what works for you.
Having just finished all 14 DL it is hard work to motivate yourself at the end of a hard days (or nights) work. I used overnight shifts to get me on track. Not much else to do when incarcerated at work on a nine hour shift when there's not even access to the internet, oh and no work to do! But there are a few who have done DL at home full time and just sat down and got on with it.
Ultimately it's going to be what works for you.
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
From: Uk
Originally Posted by I'll Be Realistic
HW,
I think Littco may be a little off the mark with his statement of the time scale for the DL course.
Meaning no disrespect Littco, but how long have you been studying your first set of subjects?
IBR
I think Littco may be a little off the mark with his statement of the time scale for the DL course.
Meaning no disrespect Littco, but how long have you been studying your first set of subjects?
IBR
As for my decision being 5 months before hand that was the time I had to decide about going to London Met. The courses only started in March and June and I had to decide in January which one I wanted to aim for. Obviously I didn't, as I didn't want to have to wait untl June to start the ATPL.
As for the 650 hours required for the course.... 5 months = 20 weeks that's only 32 hours a week study and bearing in mind I've been doing this full time, IE not working I've probably been putting in 40-50 a week so far! So it is possible.......
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,095
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From: UK
I did the BGS course. I did around 600hrs of study at home (not including the exam weeks and brush-up courses), and had a full time job, requiring lots of international travel. It was hard at times, although not impossible. It's quite doable. You have to be very motivated if you are going to go through it all diligently and try to understand it.
There is no doubt that some just sit in front of the BGS database and learn the questions and answers. You could pass the ATPL exams by doing that. Someone I met at the exams had spent 6 weeks on module 2, including the 2 week brush up, but spent the majority of their time learning the questions. I can't see them knowing anything about those subjects, however. The flip side is that questions try and catch you out, so even if you understand the topic, the questions are worded in a way just to confuse you. So you have to be aware that learning questions/feedback is a big part of the reality in sitting the exams.
I reckon I've forgotten most of the stuff I learnt, even though I did try and learn/understand the subjects. Not sure that would be different for full-time, or not. At the end of the day, I needed to work to pay the mortgage, and continue in my present career. 12 months after passing my CPL/IR, and still without an interview, I think it's the right thing to do. And I don't owe anyone anything (apart from the mortgage of course).
There is no doubt that some just sit in front of the BGS database and learn the questions and answers. You could pass the ATPL exams by doing that. Someone I met at the exams had spent 6 weeks on module 2, including the 2 week brush up, but spent the majority of their time learning the questions. I can't see them knowing anything about those subjects, however. The flip side is that questions try and catch you out, so even if you understand the topic, the questions are worded in a way just to confuse you. So you have to be aware that learning questions/feedback is a big part of the reality in sitting the exams.
I reckon I've forgotten most of the stuff I learnt, even though I did try and learn/understand the subjects. Not sure that would be different for full-time, or not. At the end of the day, I needed to work to pay the mortgage, and continue in my present career. 12 months after passing my CPL/IR, and still without an interview, I think it's the right thing to do. And I don't owe anyone anything (apart from the mortgage of course).
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
From: Hampshire
Go Distance Learning my friend, I did, passed no problems, they were a piece of cake, I also went part time on the CPL (evenings & weekends), hard work but a piece of p*ss, passed first time, now on the IR even easier than the CPL, much more clear cut (you either nail it or you don't), my advice keep working, I'm not in debt and I've got this far. In my view it's a myth that you need to quit work at all, I have a high pressure job too!
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: UK
I studied DL with BGS and had no problems. But as others have said treat it with caution, if you have a full time job and struggle to motivate yourself you may be setting yourself up for disappointment.
I worked half days, and studied the other half, having at least one day off per week so I still had a life and wanted to study rather than seeing it as a chore, and I had no probs. So, in all it took 10 months from start to finish and about 720 hours (I'm sad a kept a log to see how much I did out of interest
). It can be done quicker I'm sure, but thats what suited me.
I know people who had full time jobs, and by the time they had got home, had tea and gone to the gym/pub etc it was late so study was put off or was poor quality and they never completed the course. Make sure if you work it does not take priority.
I also did the CPL part time with minimum disruption to save on massive loans.
I worked half days, and studied the other half, having at least one day off per week so I still had a life and wanted to study rather than seeing it as a chore, and I had no probs. So, in all it took 10 months from start to finish and about 720 hours (I'm sad a kept a log to see how much I did out of interest
). It can be done quicker I'm sure, but thats what suited me.I know people who had full time jobs, and by the time they had got home, had tea and gone to the gym/pub etc it was late so study was put off or was poor quality and they never completed the course. Make sure if you work it does not take priority.
I also did the CPL part time with minimum disruption to save on massive loans.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,122
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From: Neither Here Nor There
I wanted to knock work on the head a year ago and undertake full time self study and I signed up for DL with BGS. I made the mistake of telling my employer I'd stay on until a replacement was found - I'm still there!!! Living in West Wales and working in the SE, commuting on a weekly basis, living in a B&B and working long hours, struggling to keep eyes open most evenings, has made DL impossible - for me at least.
I'm DEFINITELY finishing work at the end of July latest and am now faced with the decision of whether to bash on with DL - full time - or whether to bin DL and go residential.
The cost difference is quite enormous - the residential course when you add exams and accommodation, etc. comes to approx £ 6K, whereas I've already paid for Mod 1 of the DL.
But I have to be realistic about my own limitations - I am without doubt a classroom learner and not very good at self study. I do not want to be in this same position in 6 months time so I am thinking residential is the way for me, even if it is going to cost me an extra £4.5K - OUCH!.
Sorry if this isn't much help to the original post but I'm just trying to show that it's horses for courses and we all have to recognise our own strengths and weaknesses and apply ourselves where our best opportunities lie.
HTH
2close
I'm DEFINITELY finishing work at the end of July latest and am now faced with the decision of whether to bash on with DL - full time - or whether to bin DL and go residential.
The cost difference is quite enormous - the residential course when you add exams and accommodation, etc. comes to approx £ 6K, whereas I've already paid for Mod 1 of the DL.
But I have to be realistic about my own limitations - I am without doubt a classroom learner and not very good at self study. I do not want to be in this same position in 6 months time so I am thinking residential is the way for me, even if it is going to cost me an extra £4.5K - OUCH!.
Sorry if this isn't much help to the original post but I'm just trying to show that it's horses for courses and we all have to recognise our own strengths and weaknesses and apply ourselves where our best opportunities lie.
HTH
2close
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 776
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From: In my own little world
Having just done a couple of hours tonight with a friend who has passed 13 out of the 14, I have realised that the stuff in them isn't actually that difficult if there is someone to explain it to you.
However when you are distance learning on your own and you don't understand, then there is nobody to ask for clarification which then starts you on the downward spiral of not being arsed to continue when you don't understand it.
I wish that Bristol would make some DVD's of the lectures that you could purchase so you could watch at home with your books when you are finding it tough going - a bit like those videos you can buy of those two hippies from America showing you how to fly. I mentioned this to my friend tonight and he said he would have definately bought them if they had been available.
Alex, if you read this, I'll take 20% of each one
However when you are distance learning on your own and you don't understand, then there is nobody to ask for clarification which then starts you on the downward spiral of not being arsed to continue when you don't understand it.
I wish that Bristol would make some DVD's of the lectures that you could purchase so you could watch at home with your books when you are finding it tough going - a bit like those videos you can buy of those two hippies from America showing you how to fly. I mentioned this to my friend tonight and he said he would have definately bought them if they had been available.
Alex, if you read this, I'll take 20% of each one
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
From: Bordeaux
JAA ATPL Distance Learning
Hi all,
Would like a little bit of information. Im thinking of doing the distance learning approach to cover my ATPL theory while im still in employment and before i go off to the school of my choice to do my practical.
I assume by covering the theory now i can save time out of employment while im completing the rest of my pilot training, is this correct?
Do i need my PPL to start the distance learning?
Also i guess this will mean i would have to do a modular approach rather than intergrated?
Hope you can just advise me, i am really thinking about start the theory soon.
Thanks
Frank
Would like a little bit of information. Im thinking of doing the distance learning approach to cover my ATPL theory while im still in employment and before i go off to the school of my choice to do my practical.
I assume by covering the theory now i can save time out of employment while im completing the rest of my pilot training, is this correct?
Do i need my PPL to start the distance learning?
Also i guess this will mean i would have to do a modular approach rather than intergrated?
Hope you can just advise me, i am really thinking about start the theory soon.
Thanks
Frank
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Derby
ATPL Distance Learning
Interested in reading this!
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to complete your distance learning while still in full time employment?
I'm thinking about doing the same thing!
Cheers
CJ
If you don't mind me asking, how long did it take you to complete your distance learning while still in full time employment?
I'm thinking about doing the same thing!
Cheers
CJ
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 0
From: エリア88
There are plenty of pilots who did thier PPL before deciding to make a career out of it and then deciding that an integrated course was the way forward for them.
If you want to go down the modular route then you need to have a PPL and I belive there is a stipulation which says you need to have it issued for at least 3 or 6 months before being allowed to sit any ATPL exams. I dont have a copy of LASORS to hand at the moment but its written in there someplace.
Make sure you do alot of research before diving into the world of commercial aviation, mistakes are very costly to reverse!
Good Luck!!
If you want to go down the modular route then you need to have a PPL and I belive there is a stipulation which says you need to have it issued for at least 3 or 6 months before being allowed to sit any ATPL exams. I dont have a copy of LASORS to hand at the moment but its written in there someplace.
Make sure you do alot of research before diving into the world of commercial aviation, mistakes are very costly to reverse!
Good Luck!!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
From: uk
it took about 9 months, although with hindsight I probably could have done it quicker. What I mean by that is I hadn't studied for ages so setting proper goals etc and working efficiently it could be done quicker
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 332
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From: Surrey
I've just started my atpl theory.
I work full time, and study for 2 hours everyday after work @ work, where its nice and quiet.
I've been studying for 3 weeks, and am into 3 rd frame of bristols notes. I plan on sitting first 8 exams in feb, march at the latest. I would do them in jan, but i have a busy nov/dec so wouldnt be ready. I then plan on doing next 6 exams in may/june. so that'll be 8 months for me, 1st time passes. got to have a goal.
HB
I work full time, and study for 2 hours everyday after work @ work, where its nice and quiet.
I've been studying for 3 weeks, and am into 3 rd frame of bristols notes. I plan on sitting first 8 exams in feb, march at the latest. I would do them in jan, but i have a busy nov/dec so wouldnt be ready. I then plan on doing next 6 exams in may/june. so that'll be 8 months for me, 1st time passes. got to have a goal.
HB