JAA ATPL Distance Learning Ground School
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Join Date: Mar 2004
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JAA ATPL Distance Learning Ground School
Hey,
I think ive decided what im going to do, and that is:
PPL, Night, Multi + 100 hours
ATPL Distance learning (with BGS I think)
then im unsure:
Do you guys think it would be too much taking a CPL at the same time. Like a lesson every two weeks?
im thinking about doing it at MME, but im wondering if it is going to be better wating til i have the ATPL(F) then doing the CPL, MEIR, MCC (and Instructor if theres enough money in the pot).
Il be working full time at the same time. The flying I could fit in, but I guess theres a lof of theory involved in the CPL.
Anyone else done this/ You think maybe im just better off just burning a few hours every month for fun?
I think ive decided what im going to do, and that is:
PPL, Night, Multi + 100 hours
ATPL Distance learning (with BGS I think)
then im unsure:
Do you guys think it would be too much taking a CPL at the same time. Like a lesson every two weeks?
im thinking about doing it at MME, but im wondering if it is going to be better wating til i have the ATPL(F) then doing the CPL, MEIR, MCC (and Instructor if theres enough money in the pot).
Il be working full time at the same time. The flying I could fit in, but I guess theres a lof of theory involved in the CPL.
Anyone else done this/ You think maybe im just better off just burning a few hours every month for fun?
Join Date: Dec 2004
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You cannot start the CPL until you have completed the ATPL theory first. Also, that just gives you ATPL theory credits, you only get an ATPL(F) after you have completed the CPL/IR.
Moving On
Join Date: May 2002
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Theoretically you can actually start the CPL course without having passed the theory exams. However you will not be able to sit the CPL Skills test until you can show the examiner a pass in all required theory exams (CPL or ATPL). So it is pointless starting training alongside the exams, you will lose out on the continuity and may cover the course a long time before you can go sit the test costing you a lot more money in the long run. Take one step at a time its usually the easiest and cheapest option.
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I'm currently doing my PPL(H) and intend to follow a similar plan as yours.
Trying to fly once every two weeks is not a good way to spend your money. I try and have a lesson at least once a week, but if I miss a week (usually because of weather) then I really notice it in my pocket - I find that the next lesson is partially wasted because I have to cover stuff I should have nailled the previous time. Continuity is a money saver!
If you want to get a head start on CPL skills, use your hour building time after you get your PPL to perfect techniques - if you have a good relationship with your PPL FI, he/she can help guide you.
Also, if you are going to try distance learning, make sure you can commit to it. You won't have much spare time with all the studying you have to do. If you've ever done an OU course you will appreciate that comment!
I've heard that FTOs love distance learning - because it is easy money for them. Many people start the courses but many give up. It doesn't matter how many give up because they are not wasting classroom time.
Other than that, your plan sounds good.
One step at a time untill the money runs out!
Solouk
Trying to fly once every two weeks is not a good way to spend your money. I try and have a lesson at least once a week, but if I miss a week (usually because of weather) then I really notice it in my pocket - I find that the next lesson is partially wasted because I have to cover stuff I should have nailled the previous time. Continuity is a money saver!
If you want to get a head start on CPL skills, use your hour building time after you get your PPL to perfect techniques - if you have a good relationship with your PPL FI, he/she can help guide you.
Also, if you are going to try distance learning, make sure you can commit to it. You won't have much spare time with all the studying you have to do. If you've ever done an OU course you will appreciate that comment!
I've heard that FTOs love distance learning - because it is easy money for them. Many people start the courses but many give up. It doesn't matter how many give up because they are not wasting classroom time.
Other than that, your plan sounds good.
One step at a time untill the money runs out!
Solouk
Join Date: Dec 2004
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I have PPL and Night at the moment with 80 hours.
I'm just about to start Module 1 with BGS. Whilst studying for module 1 I will be flying to get my hours up to around 130 TT. I will then sit the exams for Module 1. Depending on the outcome, hopefully a good one, I will then continue to fly the required 150 hours and study for Module 2. When I'm nearing the end of Module 2, I'm going to start my CPL training, hoping that with Module 2 passed all I have to do is sit the CPL and move swiftly onto the MEIR. All being equal I will then start to look for work!
I'm doing this whilst I'm working full time and my expected time frame is 21 months.
I personally will not complete the ATPL exams and then try to start the CPL. It eats into job hunting time and those exams are only valid for so long, so having them without the privilege to fly is useless. As soon as the exams are complete, I'll be job hunting, with the exception of the MEIR training.
I would certainly go up to keep your hand in but try and keep money by for the later stages.
Good Luck
I'm just about to start Module 1 with BGS. Whilst studying for module 1 I will be flying to get my hours up to around 130 TT. I will then sit the exams for Module 1. Depending on the outcome, hopefully a good one, I will then continue to fly the required 150 hours and study for Module 2. When I'm nearing the end of Module 2, I'm going to start my CPL training, hoping that with Module 2 passed all I have to do is sit the CPL and move swiftly onto the MEIR. All being equal I will then start to look for work!
I'm doing this whilst I'm working full time and my expected time frame is 21 months.
I personally will not complete the ATPL exams and then try to start the CPL. It eats into job hunting time and those exams are only valid for so long, so having them without the privilege to fly is useless. As soon as the exams are complete, I'll be job hunting, with the exception of the MEIR training.
I would certainly go up to keep your hand in but try and keep money by for the later stages.
Good Luck
Join Date: Oct 2004
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I've just completed my CPL/IR and I wouldn't have wanted to take 3 weeks out of the training to attend a brush up and the exams. I think that continuity of flying is important and if you have a big gap in your training you will probably end up taking more hours to pass your test. More hours not only equals more money but some airlines do look at how many hours it took you to pass your tests.
I studied at BGS and between Mod 1 and Mod 2 I gained my MEP rating. This helped me feel like I was getting somewhere and also meant that when I did my IR I was already familiar with the Duchess rather than going in cold. I also kept flying the PA28's every few weeks to take friends up.
Ikea I would say get your exams out of the way and then put all of your effort into the flying.
I studied at BGS and between Mod 1 and Mod 2 I gained my MEP rating. This helped me feel like I was getting somewhere and also meant that when I did my IR I was already familiar with the Duchess rather than going in cold. I also kept flying the PA28's every few weeks to take friends up.
Ikea I would say get your exams out of the way and then put all of your effort into the flying.
Moving On
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We had a candidate once who insisted on starting training before getting the mod 2 results he got half way through his training then found out he had failed an exam had to go of for another month to complete the exam before coming back and completing the CPL. It ended up costing him more as he had lost the continuity in his training and had to do more hours. As I said before the simplest and usually cheapest option is to take everything one step at a time. However it is advisable to try and keep your hand in flying whilst completing the ATPL exams.
Join Date: Jan 2000
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I agree with Sky Wave, and LFS.
Do the exams first, and keep your hand in during your studies by doing the hours building and possibly the night rating.
Unless its changed, you can start the distance learning as soon as you have got the PPL.
Do the exams first, and keep your hand in during your studies by doing the hours building and possibly the night rating.
Unless its changed, you can start the distance learning as soon as you have got the PPL.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Distance Learning JAR ATPL at LMU
Considering doing the Distance Learning JAR ATPL course at London Metropoliton University. Anyone have any experiance of this? At £1950 it seems good value.
Join Date: Sep 1999
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Hi ya,
I'm currently doing the DL course with them. My personal feeling is that they are very good for full time study but not necessarily so for the DL course. Speaking to others you'll be better of with the likes of Bristol etc.
My 2 pense worth.
RB
I'm currently doing the DL course with them. My personal feeling is that they are very good for full time study but not necessarily so for the DL course. Speaking to others you'll be better of with the likes of Bristol etc.
My 2 pense worth.
RB
Join Date: Nov 2003
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ditto the above.
started out doing DL with guildhall uni (in those days). the notes were exceptionally wordy and difficult to follow. ended up with severe brain ache sat at the desk drooling uncontrollably with a thousand yard stare. enrolled full time and have to say the tuition was le chein's couilles. nailed all but one exam first time.
when i was there, they were revamping the notes (in conjunction with some swedish uni) to be less cumbersome and a bit more digestable. still seemed harder to read than the bristol notes thou. plus with bristol, there is much more on-line support and forums. horses for courses
started out doing DL with guildhall uni (in those days). the notes were exceptionally wordy and difficult to follow. ended up with severe brain ache sat at the desk drooling uncontrollably with a thousand yard stare. enrolled full time and have to say the tuition was le chein's couilles. nailed all but one exam first time.
when i was there, they were revamping the notes (in conjunction with some swedish uni) to be less cumbersome and a bit more digestable. still seemed harder to read than the bristol notes thou. plus with bristol, there is much more on-line support and forums. horses for courses
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am i right in understanding at LMU there are 3 compulsory week long study periods, if so this is what will swing me Met's ways as work will never let m have 3 weeks off, 2 for study and 1 for exams..
Join Date: Oct 2000
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The JAA rules require all distace learning courses to give some classroom time, and, of course, you have to take the exams whatever course you do.
Our course (Bristol Groundschool) requires two separate classroom periods of two weeks each. The rules actually require rather less classroom time than this, but we feel you will need the full two weeks times two for revision and clarification.
Dick Whittingham
Our course (Bristol Groundschool) requires two separate classroom periods of two weeks each. The rules actually require rather less classroom time than this, but we feel you will need the full two weeks times two for revision and clarification.
Dick Whittingham
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Far as I am concerned the online question bank facility from Bristol Groundschool is the best in the business. If everything else they do is of the same standard then they definitely are worth the money.
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For me the real advantage of the London Met course was its structure.
The exams are tackled in 3 modules rather than the normal 2 so there is less short-term cramming involved as you take the exams in 3 sittings speading the workload more evenly.
Also this means that the revision courses are only 3-5 days long rather than the usual 2 weeks. This for me places considerably less pressure on work commitments (the reason why I am distance learning rather than full time). I could not take 2 weeks off work for the compulsory classroom based learning followed by another 3 days for exams without causing problems with my employer (and the Mrs for that matter)
I have no doubt that Bristol's notes may well be better (I have their CD) but how the distance learning course is structured at Bristol unfortunately ruled it our for me.
+ I live in London so London Met is easier for traveling as well!
The exams are tackled in 3 modules rather than the normal 2 so there is less short-term cramming involved as you take the exams in 3 sittings speading the workload more evenly.
Also this means that the revision courses are only 3-5 days long rather than the usual 2 weeks. This for me places considerably less pressure on work commitments (the reason why I am distance learning rather than full time). I could not take 2 weeks off work for the compulsory classroom based learning followed by another 3 days for exams without causing problems with my employer (and the Mrs for that matter)
I have no doubt that Bristol's notes may well be better (I have their CD) but how the distance learning course is structured at Bristol unfortunately ruled it our for me.
+ I live in London so London Met is easier for traveling as well!
Trent900 - THINK BIG
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Distance Learning OAT vs Bristol: Why?
Dear All,
Yes it’s been discussed many times and yes I have waded through the different threads about: ATPL Distant Learning.
Generally, it would appear the big guns in the field have been revamping their respective product.
In my mind I have singled out Bristol & OAT as contenders. (The former combining CD-rom with folders and the latter with revised manuals only – although OAT do have some material offered on CD-rom that could be used in conjunction).
PPRUNE threads definitely have a bias towards Bristol; yet OAT manuals appear to be used as back up solutions to other courses’ failings and pop up regularly as preferred training material. In terms of constructive negative comments against OAT – the worst I have come across is the content is too deep.
Does the latter point mean Bristol’s notes cut to the chase and are concise where OAT fulfil other requirements to cover a greater scope? At the end of the day passing the exam is what one is measured on and technique is king. [Not teaching to suck eggs].
It was suggested to me some months ago by an instructor at OAT to pick up a copy of the Navigation manual and have a browse to obtain a gut feel as to the depth and level required; suggested because in his experience Nav being one of the heavier subjects tended to prove more challenging. This I did and whilst there is a lot of detail I couldn’t grumble about its’ conciseness.
BUT that’s where I’d appreciate some input please:
Apart from the 3-D animations and CBT solution Bristol boasts that their course can be done entirely from paper: How does the content compare to the typical OAT manual?
What is the typical turnaround time from emailing instructors at OAT with queries?
Does anybody have experience of using the OAT Virtual College and how does the forum compare with that at Bristol which looks both user-friendly and accessible to even non-Bristol students?
Kind regards,
EG
P.S. I have no axe to grind and certainly would prefer if replies answered without entering the usual unconstructive slagging match. Many thanks in advance.
Yes it’s been discussed many times and yes I have waded through the different threads about: ATPL Distant Learning.
Generally, it would appear the big guns in the field have been revamping their respective product.
In my mind I have singled out Bristol & OAT as contenders. (The former combining CD-rom with folders and the latter with revised manuals only – although OAT do have some material offered on CD-rom that could be used in conjunction).
PPRUNE threads definitely have a bias towards Bristol; yet OAT manuals appear to be used as back up solutions to other courses’ failings and pop up regularly as preferred training material. In terms of constructive negative comments against OAT – the worst I have come across is the content is too deep.
Does the latter point mean Bristol’s notes cut to the chase and are concise where OAT fulfil other requirements to cover a greater scope? At the end of the day passing the exam is what one is measured on and technique is king. [Not teaching to suck eggs].
It was suggested to me some months ago by an instructor at OAT to pick up a copy of the Navigation manual and have a browse to obtain a gut feel as to the depth and level required; suggested because in his experience Nav being one of the heavier subjects tended to prove more challenging. This I did and whilst there is a lot of detail I couldn’t grumble about its’ conciseness.
BUT that’s where I’d appreciate some input please:
Apart from the 3-D animations and CBT solution Bristol boasts that their course can be done entirely from paper: How does the content compare to the typical OAT manual?
What is the typical turnaround time from emailing instructors at OAT with queries?
Does anybody have experience of using the OAT Virtual College and how does the forum compare with that at Bristol which looks both user-friendly and accessible to even non-Bristol students?
Kind regards,
EG
P.S. I have no axe to grind and certainly would prefer if replies answered without entering the usual unconstructive slagging match. Many thanks in advance.
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I can't comment on OAT or Bristol - but I found CATS excellent and have not heard anyone there say anything bad.
I would suggest you try and make the time to pop into all the schools you are considering (preferably when one of the residential weeks for the distance learners is on) and see what the atmosphere is like / what the students say.
As for CATS take a look at: http://www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk/ and see what you think. Give Stuart Smith a call as well - his enthusiasm for learning is really motivating.
Whoever you pick - enjoy.
OC619
P.S. To be pedantic I did the CPL distance as opposed to ATPL.
P.P.S. If EGLD is an indication of where you are then CATS is certainly accessible (sp?).
I would suggest you try and make the time to pop into all the schools you are considering (preferably when one of the residential weeks for the distance learners is on) and see what the atmosphere is like / what the students say.
As for CATS take a look at: http://www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk/ and see what you think. Give Stuart Smith a call as well - his enthusiasm for learning is really motivating.
Whoever you pick - enjoy.
OC619
P.S. To be pedantic I did the CPL distance as opposed to ATPL.
P.P.S. If EGLD is an indication of where you are then CATS is certainly accessible (sp?).
Better red than ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
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If considering the wider subject then look also at Ground Training Services (GTS) (www.gtserv.co.uk)
What are you looking for in a ATPL course?
Passing the exams - (yup!)
Experience of the instructors - (gen. reqd)
Good notes in detail that give you the backup in learning - (reqd)
Support from experienced tutors - (needed unless just there for the exams the second time around)
In reality all of the approved courses can meet the basic requirements but what level of personal experience do you get from the tutors and how big is the class (a lecture hall or a tutorial room, that is the question)
h-r
What are you looking for in a ATPL course?
Passing the exams - (yup!)
Experience of the instructors - (gen. reqd)
Good notes in detail that give you the backup in learning - (reqd)
Support from experienced tutors - (needed unless just there for the exams the second time around)
In reality all of the approved courses can meet the basic requirements but what level of personal experience do you get from the tutors and how big is the class (a lecture hall or a tutorial room, that is the question)
h-r