JAA ATPL Ground Exams
Joined: May 2003
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 900
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From: Surrey
Its an interesting point rooney makes. However why stop at just allowing modular guys to do ATPLs before PPL? Why not just let them go straight onto the CPL course after their ATPL exams and just make it slightly longer to take this into account? Now that WOULD be a good idea, I wonder why no ones done it? 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 120
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From: Alderley Edge
Or, instead of changing the modular system, why don't all the modualar schools simply start offering integrated courses? If the only differences are that you take the ATPL exams first and do not have to take a PPL skills test then it should be a simple matter, or would the mod school then have to carry out the ATPL theory course "in house", which many may not have the facilities/ staff to do?
Or could it be set up so that the flying side of it is integrated, with the theory bolted on at the start somewhere else as a separate module? The quality of the product as a whole would be no different. Admittedly the mod schools would have to start offering an MCC, but even if a mod school could not offer an MCC "in house", could they still not integrate the flying side up to the IR?
If that could be done then we could see integrated training available for the same cost as a zero-atpl mod course, ie at a fraction of what it costs at the select 3 integrated schools (FTE, OAT and CABAIR) who have pretty much a monopoly on that type of training.
It would be interesting to know what criteria the CAA set for lisencing a school to do integrated training. If it is the case that a school must do the ground school "in house", as I think it might be, then that is rediculous.
Are there any other criteria that a school must fulfil to be lisenced to provide an integrated course?
From what I can make out, the differences between modular and integrated training up to FATPL are, given the fact that both routes involve roughly the same amounts of dual and solo flying, that a mod student has to jump through a couple of extra beaurocratic hoops.
Why not remove these hoops and make life easier for mod students everywhere, as well as removing the monopoly that the "big 3" have over the integrated market, which allows them to charge such exorbitant prices.
Were the stakes evened, a school such as OAT would have to justify charging 30grand more than say Stapleford through demonstrating that it provided better training, not by saying "ours is an integrated course, theirs is not, so we must be better!" Could they do that? I think not!
Or could it be set up so that the flying side of it is integrated, with the theory bolted on at the start somewhere else as a separate module? The quality of the product as a whole would be no different. Admittedly the mod schools would have to start offering an MCC, but even if a mod school could not offer an MCC "in house", could they still not integrate the flying side up to the IR?
If that could be done then we could see integrated training available for the same cost as a zero-atpl mod course, ie at a fraction of what it costs at the select 3 integrated schools (FTE, OAT and CABAIR) who have pretty much a monopoly on that type of training.
It would be interesting to know what criteria the CAA set for lisencing a school to do integrated training. If it is the case that a school must do the ground school "in house", as I think it might be, then that is rediculous.
Are there any other criteria that a school must fulfil to be lisenced to provide an integrated course?
From what I can make out, the differences between modular and integrated training up to FATPL are, given the fact that both routes involve roughly the same amounts of dual and solo flying, that a mod student has to jump through a couple of extra beaurocratic hoops.
Why not remove these hoops and make life easier for mod students everywhere, as well as removing the monopoly that the "big 3" have over the integrated market, which allows them to charge such exorbitant prices.
Were the stakes evened, a school such as OAT would have to justify charging 30grand more than say Stapleford through demonstrating that it provided better training, not by saying "ours is an integrated course, theirs is not, so we must be better!" Could they do that? I think not!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 36
From: uk
mcgoo
if you do the modular route you have to hold a ppl to qualify to take the atpl exams so to get the ppl you have to do the ppl exams
April CAA ATPL Exams...
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 564
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From: Over Mache Grande?
It's actually 10 working days from the Friday at the end of the exams - so as Tinmouse says - ading 10 working days (don't forget the 2 Bank Holidays) leads you up to Tue 25th.
Good luck with them
Good luck with them
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 4
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From: bedford
Flight planning exam queries.
There would appear to be a fair bit of controversy over the last question ie endurance which I beleive is identical to an Italian feedback question with an answer of 4 hours 7 mins. Same question in Oxford feedback gives 4 hours 12 mins. Closest answer to Italian FB was 4 hours 9 mins! That is if the question was identical. I beleive Oxford may have queried 2 G-Nav questions. One with respect to what latitude are you at when the sun rises and sets at a certian time. This I am informed possibly should have referred to an almanac appendix. Also a question on the navaid at Galway which is an NDB DME non compulsary reprting point I think. The next question then refers you to the VOR at the same station! Again I can't be quoted on it as the brain was fairly fuddled after post exam drinks!
Good luck everyone!
Good luck everyone!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,267
Likes: 36
From: uk
Results arrived today, don't know why people keep asking this. Its normally the 2nd thursday after the exams at the earliest, but with Easter it was the friday this time. I have never heard of the exams being delivered on a Tuesday, unless of course the posty looses your mail.
let the flying begin 
Hope you all did well!
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: leeds
Exams First Flight Training Later
Hi everyone, I've looked around this forum for a while but this is my first post.
I've wanted to start my training for a while now but so far have only managed a couple of lessons, but come September I think I'll finally be able to do it (Modular, US for PPL and hour building).
Has anyone here done there exams first then gone to the US to do the flying, is this possible? If so where might one do the exams?
I thought this might ease the pressure a little and let me enjoy the flight training some more (not that it wouldn't be fun anyway)
Cheers
Mr Impact
I've wanted to start my training for a while now but so far have only managed a couple of lessons, but come September I think I'll finally be able to do it (Modular, US for PPL and hour building).
Has anyone here done there exams first then gone to the US to do the flying, is this possible? If so where might one do the exams?
I thought this might ease the pressure a little and let me enjoy the flight training some more (not that it wouldn't be fun anyway)
Cheers
Mr Impact
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 0
From: UK
Welcome to PPRUNE.
It's unclear as to which exams you are referring to, but given your wish to do a PPL, I presume you mean the PPL written exams?
If you are talking about the ATPL, or CPL exams, then you must already have a PPL before you can start.
The PPL exams are no big deal - a few weeks of hard work will see them completed. I think it's best to do these before you do the PPL, but you can do them alongside the training as well.
It's unclear as to which exams you are referring to, but given your wish to do a PPL, I presume you mean the PPL written exams?
If you are talking about the ATPL, or CPL exams, then you must already have a PPL before you can start.
The PPL exams are no big deal - a few weeks of hard work will see them completed. I think it's best to do these before you do the PPL, but you can do them alongside the training as well.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 369
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From: Northumberland
I do not have a PPL, and want to go onto an integrated course.
Is it possible/would it be viable to do the ATPL exams whilst i am working, with maybe Bristol GS?
Do you need to have a PPl before you can do the ATPL exams with a modular school, or can you go straight onto the ATPL exams like that?
Is it possible/would it be viable to do the ATPL exams whilst i am working, with maybe Bristol GS?
Do you need to have a PPl before you can do the ATPL exams with a modular school, or can you go straight onto the ATPL exams like that?
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
From: London
If you want to do an integrated course, why would you want to do modular ATPL exams? An integrated course includes the ATPL study and exams.
Modular schools won't let you enrol for distance-learning ATPLs until you have a PPL. You could buy Oxford's notes, for example, and begin studying in your own time, though when you begin with a school you'll end up buying the notes all over again as part of the course cost.
Bascially, if you're going integrated, you don't have to do *anything* before you show up on day 1. If you're going modular, you must get your PPL before you can begin ATPL studies. And yes, it is viable to do the studies alongside a job - this is what most modular students are doing.
Modular schools won't let you enrol for distance-learning ATPLs until you have a PPL. You could buy Oxford's notes, for example, and begin studying in your own time, though when you begin with a school you'll end up buying the notes all over again as part of the course cost.
Bascially, if you're going integrated, you don't have to do *anything* before you show up on day 1. If you're going modular, you must get your PPL before you can begin ATPL studies. And yes, it is viable to do the studies alongside a job - this is what most modular students are doing.