JAA ATPL Ground Exams
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Getting others to the FL now
Hi Littco
Only done one course, 3 stg at CATS. Passed 13/14 1st time. Refer to Aim High's post; Says it all. 3 stg gives you more flexibility if you do require re-sits.
Spoke to a few students from another school at Cranfield, who were on 2 stage course, and were finding it pretty hard. Don't know if that was the caliber of students, or the lack of decent training they were getting.
If you are still to make up your mind on where to go & what course to do, suggest you give CATS a call & speak to Stuart (HoT). Their wbsite gives you the lowdown www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk
Hope this helos
HPC
Only done one course, 3 stg at CATS. Passed 13/14 1st time. Refer to Aim High's post; Says it all. 3 stg gives you more flexibility if you do require re-sits.
Spoke to a few students from another school at Cranfield, who were on 2 stage course, and were finding it pretty hard. Don't know if that was the caliber of students, or the lack of decent training they were getting.
If you are still to make up your mind on where to go & what course to do, suggest you give CATS a call & speak to Stuart (HoT). Their wbsite gives you the lowdown www.cranfieldaviation.co.uk
Hope this helos
HPC
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 301
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From: Uk
Hpcock,
No I was just interested, I'm about too sit mod2 exams in september,
I did the 1st Module in 8 weeks with Bristol and passed all 8 exams and have been doing mod2 for about the same amount of time. It's been hard work doing the course in 2 modules, and in such a short space of time, but I don't think it would be any easier if I had done it in 3 sittings.
I just found Aimhighs comments rather obnoxious to say that it makes sense to do it in three sittings, and then to find out he works for CATS kind of explains why.
Having not done a 3 stage course I can't comment, but I can say that doing it over 2 stages is probably alot harder, for the simple reason you have to learn more in one go. If you are competent in your ability and can work well and structured on your own via DL then I see no reason why you shouldn't/can't do it in 2 sittings. However I can see the benefits for some in doing it in 3 sittings.
The only thing I would suggest before going with a school is getting there pass marks for past students, if they are as good as they claim then I'm sure they would be more than happy to promote this. I'm just happy to be another pass statistic on the BGS books, and if I pass the mod2 exams as well as I did the mod1 I'll be very very happy..
No I was just interested, I'm about too sit mod2 exams in september,
I did the 1st Module in 8 weeks with Bristol and passed all 8 exams and have been doing mod2 for about the same amount of time. It's been hard work doing the course in 2 modules, and in such a short space of time, but I don't think it would be any easier if I had done it in 3 sittings.
I just found Aimhighs comments rather obnoxious to say that it makes sense to do it in three sittings, and then to find out he works for CATS kind of explains why.
Having not done a 3 stage course I can't comment, but I can say that doing it over 2 stages is probably alot harder, for the simple reason you have to learn more in one go. If you are competent in your ability and can work well and structured on your own via DL then I see no reason why you shouldn't/can't do it in 2 sittings. However I can see the benefits for some in doing it in 3 sittings.
The only thing I would suggest before going with a school is getting there pass marks for past students, if they are as good as they claim then I'm sure they would be more than happy to promote this. I'm just happy to be another pass statistic on the BGS books, and if I pass the mod2 exams as well as I did the mod1 I'll be very very happy..
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: エリア88
Littco
Again I find your comments judgemental and naive! First of all you say pilots who have to resit the ATPL exams should "take a hint" that they are not cut out for it and now you accuse Aim High of being obnoxious for explaining why he developed a 3 stage course at his establishment.
If you actually took time to read it properly, all he said was
The rest of it was a quote from an earlier post...hardly obnoxious! 
One thing studying over 3 stages may give you is more time to actually digest the subjects properly but to be honest with the wide spread question spotting (read that as CHEATING) the whole system is rather pointless now and is just a money making opportunity for the CAA. They are obviously not going to do anything about it so the only fair option is a switch to the FAA one combined paper with public question bank style exam.
I applaud both CATS and BGS for having a reputation for getting the students through and at the same time providing them with excellent study materials and notes. Also both of these schools have computerised question banks which equals the field. No longer do we have a 2 tier system of those who waltz out of the exam hall after 10 mins with a guaranteed pass and a copy of the illegal question bank and those who actually had to study like a bar steward to get through.
CATS tagline always used to be (and I presume it still is) "The school with 100% pass rates", they have been trading of this claim for years so I would guess that is "more than happy to promote".
Anyways, this is going totally off thread....
cantw82fly
You just need to decide what’s going to be best for you. Can you absorb information like a sponge? Or do you need that little bit extra time to take in the facts?
You have already decided to do fulltime groundschool, why not post who you are considering and see what comments you get about the schools (remembering its that the comments all be at least slightly bias as the chances a student has been to both schools you mention is unlikely) or use the search function. Most schools have been discussed on these boards.
Again I find your comments judgemental and naive! First of all you say pilots who have to resit the ATPL exams should "take a hint" that they are not cut out for it and now you accuse Aim High of being obnoxious for explaining why he developed a 3 stage course at his establishment.
If you actually took time to read it properly, all he said was
"This is exactly why CATS developed the 3 stage course
Only take exams when you are ready
It costs more money and time if you fail
Only take exams when you are ready
It costs more money and time if you fail
One thing studying over 3 stages may give you is more time to actually digest the subjects properly but to be honest with the wide spread question spotting (read that as CHEATING) the whole system is rather pointless now and is just a money making opportunity for the CAA. They are obviously not going to do anything about it so the only fair option is a switch to the FAA one combined paper with public question bank style exam.
I applaud both CATS and BGS for having a reputation for getting the students through and at the same time providing them with excellent study materials and notes. Also both of these schools have computerised question banks which equals the field. No longer do we have a 2 tier system of those who waltz out of the exam hall after 10 mins with a guaranteed pass and a copy of the illegal question bank and those who actually had to study like a bar steward to get through.
The only thing I would suggest before going with a school is getting there pass marks for past students, if they are as good as they claim then I'm sure they would be more than happy to promote this
Anyways, this is going totally off thread....
cantw82fly
You just need to decide what’s going to be best for you. Can you absorb information like a sponge? Or do you need that little bit extra time to take in the facts?
You have already decided to do fulltime groundschool, why not post who you are considering and see what comments you get about the schools (remembering its that the comments all be at least slightly bias as the chances a student has been to both schools you mention is unlikely) or use the search function. Most schools have been discussed on these boards.
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Uk
Mercenary Pilot.
Sorry but when some says and I quote " Go for the three stage option, it makes perfect sense" implies that to sit them in 2 stages is anything but sensible!
That to me is objectionable as it is simply not the case, which in my mind in obnoxious.
Sorry but when some says and I quote " Go for the three stage option, it makes perfect sense" implies that to sit them in 2 stages is anything but sensible!
That to me is objectionable as it is simply not the case, which in my mind in obnoxious.
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: エリア88
Littco
Was originally posted by portsharbourflyer on 3rd March 2006 22:33, Aim High is quoting him.
Portsharbourflyer is just expressing his opinion be it wrong or right. IMHO Go to whatever school trains you properly, gets you through and treats you like a customer/friend and not a cash cow/subordinate....which sadly is fairly common in this countries flight training industry.
Go for the three stage option, it makes perfect sense. Remember as well as six sittings, you are only allowed four attempts at any one subject. So if you have sat all exams by the third sittings, that still leaves three sittings for resits, that still gives you the maximum number of attempts(four) at any subject. So you will not lose anything by using the third sitting, you will only increase your chances of passing all at first attempt.
For the record I did distance learning on a three stage ground school and got every subject at first attempt
For the record I did distance learning on a three stage ground school and got every subject at first attempt
Portsharbourflyer is just expressing his opinion be it wrong or right. IMHO Go to whatever school trains you properly, gets you through and treats you like a customer/friend and not a cash cow/subordinate....which sadly is fairly common in this countries flight training industry.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Getting others to the FL now
Hey Littco
I'm glad things are going well for you at BGS. Looks like you're doin something right.
I think what it bolis down to, is what suits each individual. 3 stgs suited me, 2 suits you. But to say doing it over 2 stages is harder is something I don't agree with. I can imagine that the absorption of knowledge is far greater, but that does not make it harder. It's how you structure your time and efforts into the learning process that makes it hard or easy for an individual. I learnt that at Uni, & when I was presented with the choice of a 2 or 3 stg groundschool, 3 made sense to me, as it gave me that little bit of breathing space.
In my experience, standing outside exam centres, I happened to see guys whom I knew were on 2 stg courses, going over & over feedback qu's, prior to an exam. I was in a far more luxurious position of not having to "Panic Revise" one hr prior to an exam, as the 3 stg course had given me the time to absorb all the knowledge I needed.
Needless to say I'm sure they all did well, but looking at the bigger picture, what do airlines want - People who know their stuff, & can construct answers based upon knowledge, or somebody who can't remember whether the ans was A or B?
Sorry to go on for so long, but I just felt I should make myself heard on this matter.
Good luck with the rest of your course & hope you pass the lot 1st time
HPC
I'm glad things are going well for you at BGS. Looks like you're doin something right.
I think what it bolis down to, is what suits each individual. 3 stgs suited me, 2 suits you. But to say doing it over 2 stages is harder is something I don't agree with. I can imagine that the absorption of knowledge is far greater, but that does not make it harder. It's how you structure your time and efforts into the learning process that makes it hard or easy for an individual. I learnt that at Uni, & when I was presented with the choice of a 2 or 3 stg groundschool, 3 made sense to me, as it gave me that little bit of breathing space.
In my experience, standing outside exam centres, I happened to see guys whom I knew were on 2 stg courses, going over & over feedback qu's, prior to an exam. I was in a far more luxurious position of not having to "Panic Revise" one hr prior to an exam, as the 3 stg course had given me the time to absorb all the knowledge I needed.
Needless to say I'm sure they all did well, but looking at the bigger picture, what do airlines want - People who know their stuff, & can construct answers based upon knowledge, or somebody who can't remember whether the ans was A or B?
Sorry to go on for so long, but I just felt I should make myself heard on this matter.
Good luck with the rest of your course & hope you pass the lot 1st time
HPC
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 301
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From: Uk
Hpcock,
I can definately see the benefits of doing 3 stages over 2 stages.
Are you saying when it comes to Airline interviews those on a 3 stage have probably learnt more than those on a 2 stage, Unless I mis read your post, which I seem to be getting quite good at
I can definately see the benefits of doing 3 stages over 2 stages.
Are you saying when it comes to Airline interviews those on a 3 stage have probably learnt more than those on a 2 stage, Unless I mis read your post, which I seem to be getting quite good at
Joined: Nov 2005
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From: UK
Surely when evaluating distance learning a big factor in passing or failing is how long you are going to beaver away at home getting up to speed on things before you attend the brush up course.
I can't see that 2 or 3 modules really comes into it unless you can somehow compare experiences between different people at different schools who studied the same amount and had the same intellect and aptitude to study. In reality this is impossible so again it will be one of those things that is down to the individual and your own personal circumstances.
Rather than the number of modules I would be more interested in checking how the schools split the subjects as there is a significant amout of overlap in certain areas. POF and Perf are two good examples.
I can't see that 2 or 3 modules really comes into it unless you can somehow compare experiences between different people at different schools who studied the same amount and had the same intellect and aptitude to study. In reality this is impossible so again it will be one of those things that is down to the individual and your own personal circumstances.
Rather than the number of modules I would be more interested in checking how the schools split the subjects as there is a significant amout of overlap in certain areas. POF and Perf are two good examples.
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Getting others to the FL now
Hey Littco
Not at all. I'm just going on experince. At a recent interview that I attended, The caliber was based upon ATPL style qu's, leaning towards making you think about the answers. I'm not saying a 2 stg candidate would have failed, but again going by my previous observation at the exam centre, the qu spotting mentality would have left you in some hot water.
Again all i'm saying is that I feel I personally had more of a knowledge Base, rather than a knowledge bank.
I passed the interview & subsequently have been offered a position with this particular airline. However, the interviewer stressed that he was particularly impressed with the fact that I had seen a somewhat different perspective to certain qu's, ones that I know other candidates found difficult to ans. Not because they did'nt know the exact ans, but by their own admission , "They wern't taught it in enough detail, or did not have time to look into it deep enough" 3 out of the 5 candidates were from a 2 stage course. I will not mention their school. It maybe coincidence, but myself & the other 3 stage girl were chosen.
BTW examples of the qu's were:
1) What is the difference between your a/c wing & that of the 747?
2) High bypass engines are used on commercial airplanes because....?
3) How would you teach a student about Vmca?
4) Tell me about GPS, is it better than IRS for navigation info & why?
5) you are in a 3 eng a/c going from xxxx to yyyy. You lose an eng after take-off. Would you rtn to an IFR minimum approach at xxxx, or continue to yyyy, where it is CAVOK?
6) Why does our airline use the CFM-56 engine? Also describe the difference between our engines and those used from 20-30 yrs ago.
As you can see, the type of qu being asked, is not looking for a stright fwd yes/no, a or b answer. Its with this in mind that I feel the extra time allowed to me on a 3 stg course, gave me the confidence to ans these questions witha degree of authority & accuracy, again, due to the time I had to absorb the relavent knowledge.
In closing I am not knocking the 2 stage system. Infact I know many people whom have gone onto great thing since completing a 2 stg course, but as I reiterrated in the 1st place, it's horses for courses!!
Good luck & hopefully see you up there soon
HPC
Not at all. I'm just going on experince. At a recent interview that I attended, The caliber was based upon ATPL style qu's, leaning towards making you think about the answers. I'm not saying a 2 stg candidate would have failed, but again going by my previous observation at the exam centre, the qu spotting mentality would have left you in some hot water.
Again all i'm saying is that I feel I personally had more of a knowledge Base, rather than a knowledge bank.
I passed the interview & subsequently have been offered a position with this particular airline. However, the interviewer stressed that he was particularly impressed with the fact that I had seen a somewhat different perspective to certain qu's, ones that I know other candidates found difficult to ans. Not because they did'nt know the exact ans, but by their own admission , "They wern't taught it in enough detail, or did not have time to look into it deep enough" 3 out of the 5 candidates were from a 2 stage course. I will not mention their school. It maybe coincidence, but myself & the other 3 stage girl were chosen.
BTW examples of the qu's were:
1) What is the difference between your a/c wing & that of the 747?
2) High bypass engines are used on commercial airplanes because....?
3) How would you teach a student about Vmca?
4) Tell me about GPS, is it better than IRS for navigation info & why?
5) you are in a 3 eng a/c going from xxxx to yyyy. You lose an eng after take-off. Would you rtn to an IFR minimum approach at xxxx, or continue to yyyy, where it is CAVOK?
6) Why does our airline use the CFM-56 engine? Also describe the difference between our engines and those used from 20-30 yrs ago.
As you can see, the type of qu being asked, is not looking for a stright fwd yes/no, a or b answer. Its with this in mind that I feel the extra time allowed to me on a 3 stg course, gave me the confidence to ans these questions witha degree of authority & accuracy, again, due to the time I had to absorb the relavent knowledge.
In closing I am not knocking the 2 stage system. Infact I know many people whom have gone onto great thing since completing a 2 stg course, but as I reiterrated in the 1st place, it's horses for courses!!
Good luck & hopefully see you up there soon
HPC
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 22
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From: England
I really started something here didn't I?
Thought it was going to be a simple question!
Anyway, have decided to do a 3 module full-time course - thanks for all the advice guys, and sorry to have started the arguments!
Thought it was going to be a simple question!
Anyway, have decided to do a 3 module full-time course - thanks for all the advice guys, and sorry to have started the arguments!
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 172
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From: Getting others to the FL now
No argument started mate, just a bit of friendly banter. I for one are glad you are doing the 3 stg course. Pls PM me to let me know where & when you are starting. I'd be interested to know, if you don't mind.
HPC
HPC
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 140
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From: Ask Crewing
Air Law = 75
Airframe/System/Powerplant = 76
Instruments = 56
Mass & Balance = 22
Performance = 34
Flight Planning = 56
Human Performance = 47
Met = 90
Gen Nav = 54
Radio Nav = 59
Ops = 50
PofF = 44
VFR / IFR Comms = 23 (each paper)
Airframe/System/Powerplant = 76
Instruments = 56
Mass & Balance = 22
Performance = 34
Flight Planning = 56
Human Performance = 47
Met = 90
Gen Nav = 54
Radio Nav = 59
Ops = 50
PofF = 44
VFR / IFR Comms = 23 (each paper)
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,114
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From: UK
Note also that in many of the exams there are 2,3 or even 4 markers on offer which can make or break you. Generally anything that takes a bit of jiggery pokery on your calculator should give you more than 1 mark. GNAV will be a prime example so make sure that you can do PET/PSR with your eyes closed as they should be worth a few marks at least.
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: The pits of lancashire
Allright all
just out of curiosoty are all the questions multiple guess or written???
And if they are multiple choice is it the usual thing of theres always one answer thats way off.
Please help cos i can fly like a dream but its a while since i did an exam
just out of curiosoty are all the questions multiple guess or written???
And if they are multiple choice is it the usual thing of theres always one answer thats way off.
Please help cos i can fly like a dream but its a while since i did an exam
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 140
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From: Ask Crewing
They are all MCQs. Some qu's have some answers which are obviously wrong, others aren't quite as straight forward. There are quite a few traps to fall in to.
Have a look at some feedback and you'll soon see the format.
Have a look at some feedback and you'll soon see the format.
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 140
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From: Ask Crewing
I think this may be the thread that potkettleblack is thinking of: http://www.jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=24