CPL Cross-Country Qualifying Flight
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I did my CPL QXC from Long beach > Mexican Border (Think its called Brown Field but make sure you land right side of the border or else you have to do some fast talking to men with large amounts of firearms pointed at you!!!) > Palm Springs > McClellan Palomar > Long Beach.
Took most of day but we didnt exactly rush it and certainly something a bit different for the log book!
Julian.
Took most of day but we didnt exactly rush it and certainly something a bit different for the log book!
Julian.
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Originally Posted by TheOddOne
OpenCirrus619,
Quite a challenge, doing Cumbernauld-Denham! Not the easiest place to find, straight off.
Quite a challenge, doing Cumbernauld-Denham! Not the easiest place to find, straight off.
:Day 1: Denham-Retford-Cumbernauld
Day 2: Cumbernauld-Denham-Sandown
Day 3: Sandown-Denham
OC619
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Yes, it would count.
All you have to do is meet those requirement - countries, FIR boundries irrelevant - just do exactly what it says on the tin. (NB Bare in mind the fact it must be completed in one day has yet to be added to LASORS.)
No need to over complicate the issue!
All you have to do is meet those requirement - countries, FIR boundries irrelevant - just do exactly what it says on the tin. (NB Bare in mind the fact it must be completed in one day has yet to be added to LASORS.)
No need to over complicate the issue!
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Hello everyone! My first day of Pprune membership! Nice to jump in with a bang because this thread refers to my flight. And, I'm pleased to say that the CAA have given the nod to both scenarios! Wahoo!! Whether you think it right or not in the absence of any "caselaw" (for want of a better phrase) clarifying things in detail, subjective assumptions we all make in reading a piece of text can be argued either way. In fairness, I did cover over 600 miles in 24 hours (one end of Florida to the other - and back!!) which is far more flying than what most do for a qualifier. I deal with law books and rules all day in my job and, if I may be so bold as to offer some advice to all; read only the text and do not allow any opinions or subjective interpretation to creep in. Remember - "Everything is permitted except that which is specifically written as not permitted". Keep smiling. :-)
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1711 bet me to it - but, Yes, even before I posted on here, the UK CAA had agreed to both scenarios.
The "done in one day" of which Linda speaks in message 3 (?) is, so they say, a "continuous period of 24 consecutive hours" (as per a professional duty day in a flight time limitation sheme) - so both scenarios counted as acceptable.
They did say that the two flights didn't necessarily settle nicely with the spirit of the "legislation" - but did settle within the spirit of the purpose of the exercise - experience as pilot in command of a 300 mile cross country VFR flight.
The "done in one day" of which Linda speaks in message 3 (?) is, so they say, a "continuous period of 24 consecutive hours" (as per a professional duty day in a flight time limitation sheme) - so both scenarios counted as acceptable.
They did say that the two flights didn't necessarily settle nicely with the spirit of the "legislation" - but did settle within the spirit of the purpose of the exercise - experience as pilot in command of a 300 mile cross country VFR flight.
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600 miles and still time for a pasta suppa at Capone's ! ! !
<<edit: With Bunny June and Miss Jewel. Sweet!! OK, fair play - you made I larf, you did. >>
<<edit: With Bunny June and Miss Jewel. Sweet!! OK, fair play - you made I larf, you did. >>
Last edited by Keygrip; 10th Mar 2006 at 23:46.
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X-Country Hours for IR
probably been asked before. tried a search, but no joy....
I understand that you need 50 hours cross country before starting the IR.
What constitutes cross country flight? (the CAAs definition at any rate) do you have to land away, be out of gliding range of your home base, cross the international dateline - what is it??
Got lots of flying which is called 'local' in my book but which could equally well be called a 'navex' or whatever...
thanks in advance!
I understand that you need 50 hours cross country before starting the IR.
What constitutes cross country flight? (the CAAs definition at any rate) do you have to land away, be out of gliding range of your home base, cross the international dateline - what is it??
Got lots of flying which is called 'local' in my book but which could equally well be called a 'navex' or whatever...
thanks in advance!
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umbongo
Others may be able to correct me if I am mistaken
But I seem to recall under the CAA that any flights further than
3nm from the airfield can be counted as cross country.
Others may be able to correct me if I am mistaken
But I seem to recall under the CAA that any flights further than
3nm from the airfield can be counted as cross country.
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Do you need to land at another airfield for it to count? If not, how do you proove you were away. I often take off, do around 100nm and turn back.
I don't pay landing charges where I am based.
I don't pay landing charges where I am based.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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No requirement to land away, and no way realistically of proving whether a flight was x-country or not. The requirement for 3nm basically means everything other than circuits.
As long as what you claim for x-country seems to fit in with your general level of experience, it won't be a problem. On the other hand, if you claim 100 hours total time and 90 hours x-country, it will raise some eyebrows as to whether you really only ever did 10 hours of circuits.
FFF
-------------
As long as what you claim for x-country seems to fit in with your general level of experience, it won't be a problem. On the other hand, if you claim 100 hours total time and 90 hours x-country, it will raise some eyebrows as to whether you really only ever did 10 hours of circuits.
FFF
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It really comes down to what you write in your log book. A to B is X ctry, any flight that leaves the airfield and goes somewhere is X-ctry.
The 3 mile definition in the ANO is to set limits on the privileges of an AFI or FI(R) in that they are not allowed to authorise a student on their first solo cross country i.e. a flight more than 3nm from the airfield. It has no other meaning beyond that. At some airfields circuits are bigger than that!
The 3 mile definition in the ANO is to set limits on the privileges of an AFI or FI(R) in that they are not allowed to authorise a student on their first solo cross country i.e. a flight more than 3nm from the airfield. It has no other meaning beyond that. At some airfields circuits are bigger than that!
NPA-FCL 31 introduces a JAA definition for cross-country as "A flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a pre-planned route using standard navigation procedures". Presumably, for any licences and ratings issued after NPA 31 is adopted the CAA will only count flights that meet this definition towards the cross-country requirements.
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CPL Cross-Country Qualifying Flight
Im trying to find some information regarding CPL X-country qualifying flights. LASORS refers me to JAA-FCL1.
As far as im aware JAA will only allow access to their documents for a (large) fee.
Is this correct? If I need access to any of the documents covering legal requirements set under JAR I have to pay a fee?!?
Okay, as for the question.
I believe this has to be done in a day, but what is the definition of a "day" for the flight to count as a qualifier? Is it a 24 hour period or does it have to be done on the same calendar date? If this has been covered elsewhere, can someone post me the link (I couldn’t find what I was looking for)
Cheers Guys (and Gals)
As far as im aware JAA will only allow access to their documents for a (large) fee.
Is this correct? If I need access to any of the documents covering legal requirements set under JAR I have to pay a fee?!?
Okay, as for the question.
at least 540km (300 nm)
In the course of which full-stop landings at two
Aerodromes different from the aerodromes of
Departure shall be made;
In the course of which full-stop landings at two
Aerodromes different from the aerodromes of
Departure shall be made;
Cheers Guys (and Gals)
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JAR-FCL section 1 is free
http://www.jaa.nl/publications/section1.html
section 2 costs or contact a friend
There is no mention that it needs to be on the same day in JAR-FCL 1
... 20 hours of cross-country flight as pilot-in-command including a VFR cross-country flight totalling at least 540 km (300 NM) in the course of which full stop landings at two different aerodromes from the aerodrome of departure shall be made ...
http://www.jaa.nl/publications/section1.html
section 2 costs or contact a friend
There is no mention that it needs to be on the same day in JAR-FCL 1
... 20 hours of cross-country flight as pilot-in-command including a VFR cross-country flight totalling at least 540 km (300 NM) in the course of which full stop landings at two different aerodromes from the aerodrome of departure shall be made ...
Last edited by Aim High; 2nd Aug 2006 at 23:28.
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Thanks for that, LASORS refered me to FCL1 1.125 for the "definition", which I think is maybe in section 2.
This seems open to interpretation...If you flew 150 miles, landed, had a few days holiday in your destination and then flew back. Would that count?
What about if you flew to your 150 mile destination stayed a few days, did a short sightseeing flight and then flew home....would that count?
including a VFR cross-country flight totalling at least 540 km (300 NM) in the course of which full stop landings at two different aerodromes from the aerodrome of departure shall be made
What about if you flew to your 150 mile destination stayed a few days, did a short sightseeing flight and then flew home....would that count?
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MP,
We recently had a student who could not complete his PPL QXC in one day due to inclement wx at the 2nd airfield. If he had got on with the job instead of hanging around for a couple of hours he would have completed the final leg. Instead, he had to get a taxi home.
However, as no definitive time scale seems to be written anywhere, we contacted Mike Grierson at the CAA's approvals dept to ask if it would be OK for our student to be ferried to his last airfield to complete the final leg of his QXC.
We were advised that the CAA would EXPECT the QXC to be completed within a 24 hour period. The only reason that this has ever been waived was when an aircraft went tech at one of the visiting airfields.
Not an answer to your specific question, but I would advise that you contact the CAA BEFORE setting off if you do not intend to complete the flight within 24 hours.
Regards
76
We recently had a student who could not complete his PPL QXC in one day due to inclement wx at the 2nd airfield. If he had got on with the job instead of hanging around for a couple of hours he would have completed the final leg. Instead, he had to get a taxi home.
However, as no definitive time scale seems to be written anywhere, we contacted Mike Grierson at the CAA's approvals dept to ask if it would be OK for our student to be ferried to his last airfield to complete the final leg of his QXC.
We were advised that the CAA would EXPECT the QXC to be completed within a 24 hour period. The only reason that this has ever been waived was when an aircraft went tech at one of the visiting airfields.
Not an answer to your specific question, but I would advise that you contact the CAA BEFORE setting off if you do not intend to complete the flight within 24 hours.
Regards
76
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This is a question that comes up quite regularly - but it seems clear (to me at least) that the spirit of this requirement is that it's intended to be one trip completed in one day. I think attempts to "bend" this rule are just asking for unnecessary trouble, especially when you're going to the time and expense of doing all the other work for a CPL.
Section 1 of each of the JAA requirements is available at no cost on the JAA website, this Section contains all of the 'requirements'. Section 2 contains the Acceptable Means of Compliance (AMC) and Interpretive and Explanatory Material (IEM) and for that you have to pay (a considerable amount).
If you are referred to a 'JAR' (e.g. JAR-FCL 1.125), it will be in Section 1 and available at no charge on the JAA website.
If you are referred to a 'JAR' (e.g. JAR-FCL 1.125), it will be in Section 1 and available at no charge on the JAA website.