CPL Cross-Country Qualifying Flight
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If the recent comments were directed towards me, it wasnt a guess, and I didnt have a stab at it 
I posted my reply at 11pm last night and wasnt about to go through the FAR's.
I passed my FAA IR recently and had to have 50 hours cross country, so I found out what the FAA defined as XC, and answered the question in hand, which was a simplified version of what high wing pasted after.
HB
I posted my reply at 11pm last night and wasnt about to go through the FAR's.I passed my FAA IR recently and had to have 50 hours cross country, so I found out what the FAA defined as XC, and answered the question in hand, which was a simplified version of what high wing pasted after.
HB
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Tommy,
By chance your query was a topic of last weeks AOPA email newsletter.
See below.
Julian.
==> EXPERT ADVICE <==
FLIGHT TIME: THE FINER POINTS OF LOGGING CROSS-COUNTRIES
You can log cross-country time anytime you land at an airport other than
your point of departure, regardless of the distance between those points,
according to FAR 61.1. But a closer look at the regulation reveals three
more ways to log cross-countries. If you want to apply cross-country time
toward a private or commercial pilot certificate or instrument rating,
you can only count those flights in which you landed at an airport more
than 50 nautical miles straight-line distance from your departure point.
Now, let's say you are applying for an airline transport pilot certificate.
Then you can count any cross-country flight that was greater than 50 nm
straight-line distance from your departure airport, regardless of where
you landed. The cross-country rule changes yet again when applying time
toward a sport pilot certificate: Then you only have to land at an airport
25 nm straight-line distance from the departure airport. Makes perfect
sense, right? To learn more about the finer points of logging time, AOPA
encourages you to contact its Pilot Information Center (800/USA-AOPA) and
check out its online subject report
( http://www.aopa.org/members/files/topics/logbooks.html ).
By chance your query was a topic of last weeks AOPA email newsletter.
See below.
Julian.
==> EXPERT ADVICE <==
FLIGHT TIME: THE FINER POINTS OF LOGGING CROSS-COUNTRIES
You can log cross-country time anytime you land at an airport other than
your point of departure, regardless of the distance between those points,
according to FAR 61.1. But a closer look at the regulation reveals three
more ways to log cross-countries. If you want to apply cross-country time
toward a private or commercial pilot certificate or instrument rating,
you can only count those flights in which you landed at an airport more
than 50 nautical miles straight-line distance from your departure point.
Now, let's say you are applying for an airline transport pilot certificate.
Then you can count any cross-country flight that was greater than 50 nm
straight-line distance from your departure airport, regardless of where
you landed. The cross-country rule changes yet again when applying time
toward a sport pilot certificate: Then you only have to land at an airport
25 nm straight-line distance from the departure airport. Makes perfect
sense, right? To learn more about the finer points of logging time, AOPA
encourages you to contact its Pilot Information Center (800/USA-AOPA) and
check out its online subject report
( http://www.aopa.org/members/files/topics/logbooks.html ).
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CPL Qualifier flight
A mate is contemplating doing his 300nm CPL Qualifier trip (The one required before one can commence the CPL) using two airfields in France. He will be departing and arriving from Elstree. Is this acceptable?
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Cpl Qxc
I think there is also a requirement for the route to be the one that is most direct i.e. not the one which takes you 50nm off track so you can dip the wings over Auntie Margaret's house. Saying that, it is probably pretty obvious to suggest that even though the most direct route must be taken, things like restricted areas, danger zones and Class A airspace should be avoided! 
I could also recommend keeping all logs, flight plans, notams, landing fee invoices, fuel bills and hire documents after the flight - just incase someone questions it. I doubt they would, but who knows....
Enjoy, I certainly did with mine!
I could also recommend keeping all logs, flight plans, notams, landing fee invoices, fuel bills and hire documents after the flight - just incase someone questions it. I doubt they would, but who knows....
Enjoy, I certainly did with mine!
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dont worry about the CAA asking for that stuff. just make sure there are 3 entries in your logbook all on the same day, with 2 airfields other than point of departure, with a total time of at least 3 hours give or take, thats all they'd look for.
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Cross-Country UK definition for US training?
Hello,
Just had a few questions on logbooks.
1/ The first is regarding X-C country flights. LASORS states that a "Cross-Country flight means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure."
I only just noticed this, and am chuffed as I was about to do several extra navs to make up my 20hrs X-C requirement for CPL, thinking that many of my previous flights didn't count. The fact they do saves me a lot of time and money. Which is nice!
I understand (although cant quote) that the FAA definition involves landing at a different airfield at least 50nm away.
I did a JAR PPL at a US school back in 2001, and was wondering if I should log those flights using the JAR definition or the FAA definition. I would assume the JAR, but want to make sure, although I haven't a clue where to look for the answer.
2/ LASORS states that you can log a succesful flight test with any JAA/CAA examiner, as PICUS. Would this be the case for a checkride, i.e. when planning to hire from a flight school for the first time? If not, what would the flight be logged as? P/UT?
3/ Is there any requirement to use the word 'Self' in the Name of PIC logbook column for solo flight, or can you use your surname?
Cheers
Just had a few questions on logbooks.
1/ The first is regarding X-C country flights. LASORS states that a "Cross-Country flight means any flight during the course of which the aircraft is more than 3 nautical miles from the aerodrome of departure."
I only just noticed this, and am chuffed as I was about to do several extra navs to make up my 20hrs X-C requirement for CPL, thinking that many of my previous flights didn't count. The fact they do saves me a lot of time and money. Which is nice!
I understand (although cant quote) that the FAA definition involves landing at a different airfield at least 50nm away.
I did a JAR PPL at a US school back in 2001, and was wondering if I should log those flights using the JAR definition or the FAA definition. I would assume the JAR, but want to make sure, although I haven't a clue where to look for the answer.
2/ LASORS states that you can log a succesful flight test with any JAA/CAA examiner, as PICUS. Would this be the case for a checkride, i.e. when planning to hire from a flight school for the first time? If not, what would the flight be logged as? P/UT?
3/ Is there any requirement to use the word 'Self' in the Name of PIC logbook column for solo flight, or can you use your surname?
Cheers
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Hey Philltowns.
According to FAR 61.1(b)(3)(ii)(B) .... for the purpose of meeting the aeronautical requirements, for a private pilot certificate (FAA), cross country times means - "a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure."
If you were training for, did the checkride with a JAA certified examiner and received a JAA license then I would agree with you in that you would most likely note it accordingly in your logbook. My FAA PPL checkride was noted as PIC.
According to FAR 61.1(b)(3)(ii)(B) .... for the purpose of meeting the aeronautical requirements, for a private pilot certificate (FAA), cross country times means - "a point of landing that was at least a straight-line distance of more than 50 nautical miles from the original point of departure."
If you were training for, did the checkride with a JAA certified examiner and received a JAA license then I would agree with you in that you would most likely note it accordingly in your logbook. My FAA PPL checkride was noted as PIC.
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watch out with those defs
Im dealing with the same puzzle, I need 50 xc PIC prior to converting my FAA IR to the JAR, to complete the fATPL. I got the following as an answer directly from the CAA:
"Under former national arrangements we defined the definition of a
cross-country flight for the purposes of gaining a PPL within CAP53. The
cross-country definiion that you are referring to is that within Schedule 8
of the ANO but only really applies to the Instructor rating. JAR-FCL 1 at
Amendment 7 will introduce a new definition of a cross-country flight
comparable with our former CAP 53 definition as follows:-
Cross-Country
'A flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a
pre-planned route using standard navigation procedures.'
Whilst we have not yet adopted this, this should be the definition that we
have previously accepted under national arrangements.
I hope that this answers your enquiry."
I don't know quite what that means, but thats what they are using....
"Under former national arrangements we defined the definition of a
cross-country flight for the purposes of gaining a PPL within CAP53. The
cross-country definiion that you are referring to is that within Schedule 8
of the ANO but only really applies to the Instructor rating. JAR-FCL 1 at
Amendment 7 will introduce a new definition of a cross-country flight
comparable with our former CAP 53 definition as follows:-
Cross-Country
'A flight between a point of departure and a point of arrival following a
pre-planned route using standard navigation procedures.'
Whilst we have not yet adopted this, this should be the definition that we
have previously accepted under national arrangements.
I hope that this answers your enquiry."
I don't know quite what that means, but thats what they are using....
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300NM nav
Hello there!!
the time has come now in my hour building to think about doing my 300nm nav run for my cpl licence issue.
I was wondering if any of your guys/girls knew if i could do this over 2 days, or does it have to be done in 1 day?
I will be flying from Cardiff, going over to Ireland, staying there a night, flying to another airport in Ireland, and then back to Cardiff.
Would the CAA accept this or not??
Any advice welcome
Cheers, Craig
the time has come now in my hour building to think about doing my 300nm nav run for my cpl licence issue.
I was wondering if any of your guys/girls knew if i could do this over 2 days, or does it have to be done in 1 day?
I will be flying from Cardiff, going over to Ireland, staying there a night, flying to another airport in Ireland, and then back to Cardiff.
Would the CAA accept this or not??
Any advice welcome
Cheers, Craig
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That is the word that goes around......HOWEVER, neither Lasors nor JAR FCL 1.155 specify that it must be done on the same day.
What if the trip was done overnight?
I think the test of 'what is reasonable' needs to be applied.
If you left Cardiff at 1800 and flew to Waterford, then later flew up to Dublin or Belfast and returned directly to Cardiff the following morning arriving at Cardiff by 0600 I would have thought that would be perfectly reasonable and acceptable. It would in fact be more demanding than carrying out the same trip, leaving Cardiff at 0600 and finishing at 2200 on the same day.
On the licence application form you have to state the date of the QXC. The CAA officer handling the application will check your log book on that date. If it showed the above I couldn't see it being a problem.
The people to ask are........drum roll........the CAA!!!
What if the trip was done overnight?
I think the test of 'what is reasonable' needs to be applied.
If you left Cardiff at 1800 and flew to Waterford, then later flew up to Dublin or Belfast and returned directly to Cardiff the following morning arriving at Cardiff by 0600 I would have thought that would be perfectly reasonable and acceptable. It would in fact be more demanding than carrying out the same trip, leaving Cardiff at 0600 and finishing at 2200 on the same day.
On the licence application form you have to state the date of the QXC. The CAA officer handling the application will check your log book on that date. If it showed the above I couldn't see it being a problem.
The people to ask are........drum roll........the CAA!!!
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Pazza1
I wish you would have done a search where this question has been answered multiple times.
LASORS is not the legal document.
There was a notice sent round to all UK CAA schools stating that the CPL Qualifying trip must be completed over one day.
At the discretion of the CAA due to technical reasons only will they accept a 2 day Cross country.
In short, just do it on one day.
I wish you would have done a search where this question has been answered multiple times.
LASORS is not the legal document.
There was a notice sent round to all UK CAA schools stating that the CPL Qualifying trip must be completed over one day.
At the discretion of the CAA due to technical reasons only will they accept a 2 day Cross country.
In short, just do it on one day.
Last edited by BigGrecian; 25th May 2007 at 17:54. Reason: Username incorrect
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Brakes on, big fella,
It's not my question, therefore, it's not my place to do the search.
You will read from my use of words that I made use of phrases such as 'I think' and 'I would have thought'. That clearly implied that these are my opinions and not statements of hard fact. I would have thought that the closing sentence "The people to ask are the CAA" would have given a clue as to my advice.
However, I stand by my guns and since you point out that the CAA has released a notice (which I haven't seen and have been unable to find on the CAA website so would be very grateful for a link or document name even) I would point out the following, for which I will use your statement that "There was a notice sent round to all UK CAA schools stating that the CPL Qualifying trip must be completed over one day."
The definition of 'day' is a period of 24 hours and has no reference to date:
"The 24-hour period during which the earth completes one rotation on its axis"
It is not a SI Unit but is accepted as such, the actual SI unit being the second.
The ANO does not contain any alternative definition, therefore, any trip that begins and ends within the same period of 24 hours, regardless of whether it is overnight or not would meet the requirements that the trip has been conducted within 'one day'.
I would argue that point black and blue with the CAA and in the absence of production of any LEGAL document showing otherwise I cannot see how they could fail to accept it.
Thanks for bringing this point up - I've found it a handy learning tool.
2close
It's not my question, therefore, it's not my place to do the search.
You will read from my use of words that I made use of phrases such as 'I think' and 'I would have thought'. That clearly implied that these are my opinions and not statements of hard fact. I would have thought that the closing sentence "The people to ask are the CAA" would have given a clue as to my advice.
However, I stand by my guns and since you point out that the CAA has released a notice (which I haven't seen and have been unable to find on the CAA website so would be very grateful for a link or document name even) I would point out the following, for which I will use your statement that "There was a notice sent round to all UK CAA schools stating that the CPL Qualifying trip must be completed over one day."
The definition of 'day' is a period of 24 hours and has no reference to date:
"The 24-hour period during which the earth completes one rotation on its axis"
It is not a SI Unit but is accepted as such, the actual SI unit being the second.
The ANO does not contain any alternative definition, therefore, any trip that begins and ends within the same period of 24 hours, regardless of whether it is overnight or not would meet the requirements that the trip has been conducted within 'one day'.
I would argue that point black and blue with the CAA and in the absence of production of any LEGAL document showing otherwise I cannot see how they could fail to accept it.
Thanks for bringing this point up - I've found it a handy learning tool.
2close
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To be honest, I thought clocking up 300nm might have been a problem, given some of the airspace in the UK but I cracked it. Take a nice day, set course for Wales in uninhibited Class G and land say at Aberporth then perhaps Swansea or another enroute airfield on your way back. Get the sightseeing in and straightline distances go out thw window. I think I clocked up 430nm according to my GPS. With my 196, I can also prove I did it 
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Big Grecian...
Really? Copy please. At least give me the date of the notice and the name and position of the signatory.
There was a notice sent round to all UK CAA schools stating that the CPL Qualifying trip must be completed over one day.
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If the CAA communicated it, then it would (should) be here: http://www.caa.co.uk/application.asp...e=sercat&id=26