The Florida Mud-Wrestling Pit!

[DesiPilot]

Glad to see that PPRuNe Mods have not taken away our ability to edit the posts. Well, Scroggs, you might be enjoying this more than anyone else, so I am editing all my posts here.

This thread is not as informative as the other one was, so I am deleting all my posts here.

Adios for now.

Jatin

[Bobby Brown]

I usually just read the postings but I have it on good authority from a whale and a bus driver that Naples approvals for all flight training expired on February 28th 2006 and they were not renewed. I have been told that if you look at the CAA website under Standards Document 31 ver 65 that NAC is not approved for ANY Flight training at all. Interesting advert in the June PILOT magazine page 106, QUOTE:
" CFI Position" "JAA CPL Flight School"
Seeks CFI to join the busy team in Florida. Competitive package, visa sponsorship, relocation benefits.
Please send resume to : *************************************
March 30th 2006 Quote: "A name has been put forward,the main man is on holiday,I am just awaiting his blessing"
That is some outstanding holiday, awesome, where do you apply for a job like his? No wonder Belgrano charges so much for nothing.
Why would you advertise in the June Pilot if somebody was already in place?

[BillieBob]

Just so you know, the JAA PPL exam papers does not belong to the examiner rather they belong to school and school must appoint a nominee for the same.

An interesting opinion regarding the rules - and one, according to my information, not shared by the CAA.

[itsbrokenagain]

WOW, Bobby single poster just registered brown you are a rocket scientist! Thanks for the info you have posted !

But whats the bee in your bonnet??? No one has said they have a HoT, no one has a problem with a job advert! ( there should be more of them ). But hey thanks for your post, its helped a real lot of people, keep up the informative work!

[Bobby Brown]

Its Broken Again.
The point being that if they are waiting for the main man to come back from holiday for his blessing, and it is just a paperwork exercise, then why 2 month's later would you place an advert in Pilot, smacks of BS unless you know otherwise. As far as I am aware the PPL paper's belong to the CAA not the school and in my day the nominated person, ( CEP ) had to be a GRE.

[DesiPilot]

Edited - See first post.

[JABI]

Just so you know, the JAA PPL exam papers does not belong to the examiner rather they belong to school and school must appoint a nominee for the same. Before I left NAC, we nominated Nikki for the exam papers. Now that doesnt mean that Nikki can conduct the exams, but there are examiners who are willing to travel to NAC for exam papers and flight tests.

So this indicates the following is possible;
After jumping through all the hoops to get JAA certification, the school in question can get rid of all required personnel after nominating an employee to sit on the exams.
The school can still provide their customers with a JAA PPL , this time without any supervision from the CAA or any inspections, and without holding any JAA certification.
Just hire an outside examiner to review the exams.
Students will have to complete a FAA PPL prior to conversion.
That is a travesty of the rules.

Since students are being trained in US airspace in N-registered aircraft by FAA certified Instructors without any oversight I would suggest to the CAA the following:
*enforce the rules as you are supposed to do, or
* allow any school in the US (or Canada/Australia or anywhere for that matter) to have the PPL exams and be able to offer "JAA PPL".

The customer (yes, students are customers contrary to popular belief)
will have the chance to make a better choice for flight training.

[DesiPilot]

Edited - See first post.

[JABI]

Read my post again- it clearly says that when I shut down Britannia we were asked to send the exam papers back to the CAA.

Thank you for stating the obvious....again...school closed, return the exam papers.

Where did I say in post that if school has lost the approval they can conduct JAA training?

You did not and neither did I, but they still hold the exam papers, which allows them to have students do conversions, which is essentially the same result.

Although not approved, students can still go to any school and renew their licence. All renewal requires is a flight with an approved FI (not at approved school) and than if license is expired a flight test with an FE/CRE/FIE.

Nobody said anything abot renewals, so what is your point?

So the CAA has enforced its regulation on everyone equally. That includes NAC, OBA, OFT, EFT and even your school.

No they have NOT, OBA/OFT and EFT still have the required JAA certified/authorized or otherwise approved personnel.
Bottom line, if you lose the required people, lose all authorization, it is odd that you can still continue to conduct your business with only a minor change, which is the FAA skill test before the JAA one.
So essentially nothing changed.

But I do look up at times and thank God that I am not part of politics that involves JAA/FAA flight training in Florida

I am sure you are not the only one feeling that way.

You are still defending it every time though...

[BillieBob]

DesiPilot - I have now had three independent responses to my question concerning the conduct of JAA PPL exams at NAC. Two were by p.m. from people who are well placed to know the score, the third from a contact in the CAA somewhat higher up the food chain than your suggestion. All three are firmly of the same opinion - JAA PPL examinations cannot legally be conducted at NAC now that the nominated holder of the papers has left. The arrangement that NAC apparently have in place, whereby the paperwork is allegedly being signed, fraudulently, by a person not qualified to do so, is, I am informed, likely to result in yet more qualifications and authorisations being withdrawn from the people involved.

Furthermore, I am assured that any application for a JAA PPL received from NAC, dated after the departure of the nominated Head of Training will be rejected.

It seems that we all have lessons to learn!

[DownIn3Green]

Hey Bobby, thanks for your very informative posts...if you are in touch with a "whale" and "bus" driver, both of whom have intricate knowledge of NAC operations, then NAC must be doing something right...i.e.-did those guys get some of their training at NAC then move up to the big leagues?

Also, do you know the deadline for adverts in various publications? It may be NAC placed that ad long ago and for a variety of reasons may not have either been able to or wanted to pull it.

Also, where does the ad say they're looking for a HoT?

Anyway, like someone else has all ready said, keep up the good posts...we all look forward to "one post wonders" view of all things aviation...

[DesiPilot]

Edited - See first post.

[DesiPilot]

Edited - See first post.

[BillieBob]

Desi - Perhaps it might be wise to talk to your previous employer, or your friend Linda, before making any further posts on this subject - it might help, in the long run, to preserve your credibility.

[scroggs]

Like WWW, I'm getting more than a little fed up with the amount of space the Florida JAA flight training industry is taking up on this forum, especially when most of the noise is coming from those employed by that small part of the overall scene. We don't see similarly immature public arguments from any other sector of this industry; what is it about the Florida environment that renders its inhabitants incapable of holding a civil conversation, or of sorting its problems out quickly and quietly?

As I say, the Floridian JAA scene is a very small part of the overall picture. We may very well decide that its exposure on Pprune should be more in proportion to its share of the UK/JAA market. Given that it's had something like 50% or more of the total FTO discussion on this board since its inception, perhaps we could restore the balance by removing all mention of the Florida training scene for, say, the next five years?

Or perhaps you could all grow up? You are hardly casting yourselves in a flattering light...

Scroggs

[Coneja]

I can understand that moderators would want to intervene when there are possible litigation problems for PPRuNe or to protect the names of the innocent/guilty but I really do not understand why moderators get so het up about postings about Florida flight schools when any intellegent soul can clearly see that the postings are by people venting their spleen/having some fun/axe grinding. It is just a bun fight and surely can be just accepted in that light by the mods. It is clear from the number of viewings that many PPRuNer's find the thread postings interesting and for that reason alone should be left alone. Look upon the Florida threads as the Wannabees "jet blast" threads! Come on mods, live and let live, where is your sense of humour? If you must, start another forum, how about "Professional Training Forum (Florida training/jet blast)". As a further thought, how about restricting posting rights to those PPRuNer's with a personal title in order to raise additional revenue for PPRuNe? I for one would be very sad if the Florida threads were to be out of existence.

Conejita

[scroggs]

This is a privately-owned website, and there is no right of free speech here. If you wish to have a laugh, I'm sure Jet Blast (or another website) can entertain you. However, you (probably unconsciously) make a good point - the Florida FTOs are becoming a laughing stock thanks to their internecine arguments on this forum. It's high time this stopped.

Scroggs

[Coneja]

Awwww Scroggs, nobody so far as I’m aware is demanding free speech here, surely life isn’t so bad that humour needs to be eradicated is it? No, I didn’t make an unconscious point, THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT, the Florida FTO posts are a laughing stock although the funny side may not always be seen as such by the FTO’s on the receiving end of certain posts! Surely there isn’t anybody who reads the Florida threads and takes them seriously is there? If there is, I would suggest that they are not cut out to be professional pilots anyway! After culling the Florida threads I suppose that the next mods target will be the Ryanair threads! And then who knows what the next casualty will be.

This is a privately-owned website, and there is no right of free speech here.

Not taking lessons on censorship from the Chinese or FidelCastro are we?

Conejita

[Paris Dakar]

Scroggs/WWW,

This is a privately-owned website, and there is no right of free speech here.

Why not just delete the offending threads and let rest stand?

The PPRuNe Network runs on BBS software therefore you know exactly who is posting, who they are PM'ing and where they are posting from regardless how many aliases they may allege to have.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

We Mods EDIT threads as we see fit. Without a little editorial control PPRuNe would become a free for all like so many other bulletin boards out there. Where cliques rule, inane discussions perpetuate and the average browser is put off participating in what become ever more self referential flame wars.

Florida JAA PPL training equates to about 1.5% of all JAA PPLs issued yet is taking up a lot more bandwidth here on PPRuNe. We don't just cut things dead - we tend to fire warning shots across bows. Which is exactly what is happening now.

Few people are that interested in the machinations at Naples or any other Florida based FTO offering, or trying to offer, JAA PPL courses. So calm down and wind in your necks unless you have something FACTUAL AND NEW to report.

Many thanks,

WWW