The cost of achieving fATPL?
Penworth
I'm very surprised you managed to do it that cheaply. When you say your training cost was just over £36000 does that mean you haven't included a figure for hour building?
If I hadn't of done an MCC I would have saved £3500. If I'd applied to CTC as soon as I passed my CPL/IR I could have saved on my MEP and IR renewals approx £1500. Not doing an IMC would have saved a further £2800. That would bring my training costs down from £53489 to £45689. But that’s still £10k more than you.
Did you do your training in the UK?
I think there are plenty of people who would love to have some more details of where you trained and what is included in your figures
Mooney
The £6885 included absolutely everything except the cross country landing fees. That includes all the equipment I've listed above, exam fees the lot. I was much happier to do that than go with other companies that had loads of hidden extras.
Cheers
SW
I'm very surprised you managed to do it that cheaply. When you say your training cost was just over £36000 does that mean you haven't included a figure for hour building?
If I hadn't of done an MCC I would have saved £3500. If I'd applied to CTC as soon as I passed my CPL/IR I could have saved on my MEP and IR renewals approx £1500. Not doing an IMC would have saved a further £2800. That would bring my training costs down from £53489 to £45689. But that’s still £10k more than you.
Did you do your training in the UK?
I think there are plenty of people who would love to have some more details of where you trained and what is included in your figures
Mooney
The £6885 included absolutely everything except the cross country landing fees. That includes all the equipment I've listed above, exam fees the lot. I was much happier to do that than go with other companies that had loads of hidden extras.
Cheers
SW
Last edited by Sky Wave; 3rd Aug 2006 at 18:41.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: near an airfield
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
similar
i don't get involved in these discussions normally but you appear to have done a very similar route to myself, ppl to ctc inc imc and mcc/joc on top. yet my figure is more around £52-53K inc interest. but to be fair i haven't had to renew anythign but my medical,
a modular course is what you set out to make it, i have a friend who worked the whole way through, and kept looking for cheapest prices. took him 4 years but his total debt was around £30k and others who are in the 100's, whereas an intergrated course is very set in its ways and ideally what you see advertised is what you pay but it may go horribly wrong just like it can in a modular route,a spar problem springs to mind. if i had my time again i'd go to CTC.But i know guys that went to oxford, modular and integrated, some have jobs others don't . i think theres a bit of luck involved at the end of the day, you hear it said all the time "Right person,Right place,Right time"
i'm not saying one route is better then the other, but you do need to look at both routes and see which route match's your situation, you can get mortgages to match your lifestyle, well you can almost do the same with your training now.
Good Luck
a251
a modular course is what you set out to make it, i have a friend who worked the whole way through, and kept looking for cheapest prices. took him 4 years but his total debt was around £30k and others who are in the 100's, whereas an intergrated course is very set in its ways and ideally what you see advertised is what you pay but it may go horribly wrong just like it can in a modular route,a spar problem springs to mind. if i had my time again i'd go to CTC.But i know guys that went to oxford, modular and integrated, some have jobs others don't . i think theres a bit of luck involved at the end of the day, you hear it said all the time "Right person,Right place,Right time"
i'm not saying one route is better then the other, but you do need to look at both routes and see which route match's your situation, you can get mortgages to match your lifestyle, well you can almost do the same with your training now.
Good Luck
a251
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: ex-DXB
Posts: 927
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skywave,
You have too much time on your hands to remember and write so much in that detail
Hopefully not too long a wait for you now. Keep me posted Pal...
All the best!
Craggs
You have too much time on your hands to remember and write so much in that detail
Hopefully not too long a wait for you now. Keep me posted Pal...
All the best!
Craggs
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: In t'sky
Posts: 575
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For those who might be interested, i'm training at present, and my expenditure thus far has been:
PPL - Done in bits at EFG at Biggin Hill, Multiflight in Leeds and finally finished in the states at OBA. Total cost for flying was:
---------------------------------
EFG - £1000 (which included my PPL starter package of computer, charts, books, kneeboard, etc)
Multiflight - £700 (at this point LBA decided to turf up rwy 27/09 so I went to OBA)
OBA - £2254 in flying training. Flight with BA was £340 to MCO, then living expenses for the three weeks were roughly £150.
License issue was then £220 ish (I think - which included the night rating)
Class II Medical - £109
------------
Sub Total - £4773
Class I Medical - £400
Bristol ATPL Module 1 - £1100
CRP-5 £65
-------
Subtotal to date - £6338
Compared to Skywave's i've saved about £3000 so far from his total of £9472 at the same point I was. That's not to say I did mine a better way, it's another way of looking at it.
Horgy
PPL - Done in bits at EFG at Biggin Hill, Multiflight in Leeds and finally finished in the states at OBA. Total cost for flying was:
---------------------------------
EFG - £1000 (which included my PPL starter package of computer, charts, books, kneeboard, etc)
Multiflight - £700 (at this point LBA decided to turf up rwy 27/09 so I went to OBA)
OBA - £2254 in flying training. Flight with BA was £340 to MCO, then living expenses for the three weeks were roughly £150.
License issue was then £220 ish (I think - which included the night rating)
Class II Medical - £109
------------
Sub Total - £4773
Class I Medical - £400
Bristol ATPL Module 1 - £1100
CRP-5 £65
-------
Subtotal to date - £6338
Compared to Skywave's i've saved about £3000 so far from his total of £9472 at the same point I was. That's not to say I did mine a better way, it's another way of looking at it.
Horgy
MrHorgy, A251, etc. - Don't forget that Skywave is currently in the CTC holding pool, which is tantamount to getting onto the flight deck (something in the region of 85-90% chance of a job as I recall). Any comparisons should, therefore, be made with that in mind. The fact that you, Mr Horgy, have, so far, spent £3000 less is totally irrelevant unless and until you are in the same point in the job market.
Craggs
Don't I know it. I've even got to the bottom of the DIY list that Mrs Sky Wave has given me to do.
Hopefully there’s only a few more weeks of thumb twiddling.
Good luck with the Base Check
BillieBob
Hopefully it's better than 90%. Just waiting for a type rating start date.
I think one thing to bear in mind when comparing PPL prices is the airfield you train out of. My local airfields are Bournemouth and Southampton and being large airfields with full ATC, Navigation and Night facilities they charge more in landing fees and hence the price of a PPL package is greater. I could have done it cheaper if I'd of travelled to Old Sarum or Compton Abbas but the cost of the travelling would have probably outweighed the cheaper course price, and besides it’s nice learning to fly next to the big boys. I think anyone doing their PPL in between a full time job will probably end up picking from the best schools at their local airfield rather than travelling further a field.
SW
You have too much time on your hands to remember and write so much in that detail
Hopefully there’s only a few more weeks of thumb twiddling.Good luck with the Base Check
BillieBob
Hopefully it's better than 90%. Just waiting for a type rating start date.
I think one thing to bear in mind when comparing PPL prices is the airfield you train out of. My local airfields are Bournemouth and Southampton and being large airfields with full ATC, Navigation and Night facilities they charge more in landing fees and hence the price of a PPL package is greater. I could have done it cheaper if I'd of travelled to Old Sarum or Compton Abbas but the cost of the travelling would have probably outweighed the cheaper course price, and besides it’s nice learning to fly next to the big boys. I think anyone doing their PPL in between a full time job will probably end up picking from the best schools at their local airfield rather than travelling further a field.
SW
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Skywave, don't have all the details to hand, but the main difference I can see between our routes was I did the PPL in the USA while I was out there studying ($60 per hour including instructor). My hourbuilding was in a company aircraft (£66ph). I also did the CPL in Florida which only cost about £3500. Also, managed to avoid a retake of the CPL, and my MCC only cost £2000. Between them, these differences probably account for the £10k difference. Good luck with the TR.
Billiebob, don't know if your comment was directed at me as well, but have been in and out of the CTC holding pool so pretty much at the same place as skywave.
Cheers
PW
Billiebob, don't know if your comment was directed at me as well, but have been in and out of the CTC holding pool so pretty much at the same place as skywave.
Cheers
PW
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CPL quotes
Well today i was quoted £6500 for a CPL & MEP course 
I nearly fell through the floor considering i've had quotes in the UK of £5400. Anyone else had any heart stoppers like that?
I nearly fell through the floor considering i've had quotes in the UK of £5400. Anyone else had any heart stoppers like that?
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bradford
Age: 42
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi, I'm looking at starting my modular training fairly soon. At the moment I'm thinking of starting in January and I am preparing a budget.
My current situation is that I am 24 years old, I have A-levels in Maths Physics and Computing and a bachelor's degree and master's degree in economics (I've decided not to go into a business/finance job because of lack of enthusiasm). I have wanted to be an airline pilot for as long as i can remember.
This is my budget:
JAA Class 1 Medical £450
JAA PPL @ OFT £3700
Night Rating @ OFT £300
ATPL @ Bristol £1900
ATPL test fees £840
Hour Building @ OFT £4500
CPL (ME) @ OFT £3300
Accomodation @ OFT for Hours and CPL $800
IR + MCC @ UK flight school (not sure which one yet) £13500
Flights to USA £500
Accomodation in the UK @ Bristol and ATPL test centre £500
Total cost: £30290
I can self fund up until after my ATPL exams, after this I'm thinking of getting a personal loan to complete my training and then getting a temporary full time job to start meeting the loan repayments. I will then fight hard to get a position with an airline.
My parents have said they will loan me the money for type rating after an offer of employment from an airline.
Are there any costs above that I have not considered?
What do you think of my plan, or am I committing financial suicide?
My current situation is that I am 24 years old, I have A-levels in Maths Physics and Computing and a bachelor's degree and master's degree in economics (I've decided not to go into a business/finance job because of lack of enthusiasm). I have wanted to be an airline pilot for as long as i can remember.
This is my budget:
JAA Class 1 Medical £450
JAA PPL @ OFT £3700
Night Rating @ OFT £300
ATPL @ Bristol £1900
ATPL test fees £840
Hour Building @ OFT £4500
CPL (ME) @ OFT £3300
Accomodation @ OFT for Hours and CPL $800
IR + MCC @ UK flight school (not sure which one yet) £13500
Flights to USA £500
Accomodation in the UK @ Bristol and ATPL test centre £500
Total cost: £30290
I can self fund up until after my ATPL exams, after this I'm thinking of getting a personal loan to complete my training and then getting a temporary full time job to start meeting the loan repayments. I will then fight hard to get a position with an airline.
My parents have said they will loan me the money for type rating after an offer of employment from an airline.
Are there any costs above that I have not considered?
What do you think of my plan, or am I committing financial suicide?
Last edited by dom462; 6th Nov 2006 at 22:02.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cost Cutting after ATPL Theory
Hello everyone,
By the New Year, I hope (and pray) that all 14 ATPL theory credits will be in the bag.
Next up, I've got to hour-build, then complete the M/E CPL, IR and then the MCC.
Sitting down last night, I've worked out that at current pricing, it's going to cost £24,000 to finish off. Certainly not small change.
The above figure is based on hour-building in the US, then completing the rest at a school over here (Wolverhampton Flight Centre). I've also tried to take into account the money that'll be demanded by every wannabe's friend, the CAA.
Now, £24,000 is an awful lot of money and I'm obviously eager to keep costs down as much as possible.
Realistically, do any of you have any experience or advice on possible ways of keeping costs down (or reduce them!) in terms of the route followed post-theory examination and where the flying could be done?
Thanks a million,
Blueskyrich
By the New Year, I hope (and pray) that all 14 ATPL theory credits will be in the bag.
Next up, I've got to hour-build, then complete the M/E CPL, IR and then the MCC.
Sitting down last night, I've worked out that at current pricing, it's going to cost £24,000 to finish off. Certainly not small change.
The above figure is based on hour-building in the US, then completing the rest at a school over here (Wolverhampton Flight Centre). I've also tried to take into account the money that'll be demanded by every wannabe's friend, the CAA.
Now, £24,000 is an awful lot of money and I'm obviously eager to keep costs down as much as possible.
Realistically, do any of you have any experience or advice on possible ways of keeping costs down (or reduce them!) in terms of the route followed post-theory examination and where the flying could be done?
Thanks a million,
Blueskyrich
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bradford
Age: 42
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You could do your CPL in florida after your hour building. OFT do it at a good price.
Have you thought about spain for your IR?
http://www.aerodynamics-malaga.com/
or
http://www.aerofanfto.com/ & http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215585
There are other good ones as well.
I haven't been to these but I'm considering them.
Also, try and get on the CTC ATP course before doing your MCC. You can still apply to airlines without it as you meet the minimum qualifications, just say you are about to do it on your cover letter or application.
Have you thought about spain for your IR?
http://www.aerodynamics-malaga.com/
or
http://www.aerofanfto.com/ & http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=215585
There are other good ones as well.
I haven't been to these but I'm considering them.
Also, try and get on the CTC ATP course before doing your MCC. You can still apply to airlines without it as you meet the minimum qualifications, just say you are about to do it on your cover letter or application.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I may have miss understood the costs here, but I have costed things up and i can get a ME CPL / ME IR / MMC for £12,000 by going to the USA and Spain.
Add £2,500 for the ATPL, and maybe around £3,000 for the hour building.
Thats around £17,000 for doing it modular, all rough figures and dont include accomodation (shouldnt be much 4 months max)
Definately can be done for less than £20,000.
I would find it really hard to spend £60k going down the modular route, unless I was to do all the training in the UK, which I would never do.
Add £2,500 for the ATPL, and maybe around £3,000 for the hour building.
Thats around £17,000 for doing it modular, all rough figures and dont include accomodation (shouldnt be much 4 months max)
Definately can be done for less than £20,000.
I would find it really hard to spend £60k going down the modular route, unless I was to do all the training in the UK, which I would never do.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 919
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am impressed that people have completed their training for a figure of around GBP35K. Although I did not keep a full record of my training, I've estimated that I spent around GBP55k.
If I had my time again, I would definitely do my CPL in the US as it gives you very little value and is a very out-dated course. In addition, doing the CPL in the UK is exactly how it was when I did my PPL: the number of days lost to bad weather is no different. And if your luck is like mine, you will have a prolonged period of time drinking tea and wishing you had done it in the US. One chap at my school in the UK had to wait 3 weeks for the right weather just to sit his flight exam. This was on top of a lengthy delay in completing his course. My own course overran by three weeks. So that was 15 days extra in the B&B, plus all that additional traveling to and from my home each weekend to the school, only to jump in the car on the Friday evening after a week of no flying.
Do your IR in the UK. No question.
As for budgets, always remember things such as costs of traveling to the airfields, taxis from airports when going abroad, and the fact that if you are going away for long periods of time, it is unreasonable to think that you will sit in your motel not spending any money when not flying. You will need some money for 'entertainment' and unforeseen activities.
I always added a 10% figure to my budgets as a minimum, since things are always more expensive than you think they will be. Plus, most will go over by 3-5 hrs on their IR, and many get partials, which requires additional funding. The last thing you want to worry about is finances when you are already under pressure in your IR.
If I had my time again, I would definitely do my CPL in the US as it gives you very little value and is a very out-dated course. In addition, doing the CPL in the UK is exactly how it was when I did my PPL: the number of days lost to bad weather is no different. And if your luck is like mine, you will have a prolonged period of time drinking tea and wishing you had done it in the US. One chap at my school in the UK had to wait 3 weeks for the right weather just to sit his flight exam. This was on top of a lengthy delay in completing his course. My own course overran by three weeks. So that was 15 days extra in the B&B, plus all that additional traveling to and from my home each weekend to the school, only to jump in the car on the Friday evening after a week of no flying.
Do your IR in the UK. No question.
As for budgets, always remember things such as costs of traveling to the airfields, taxis from airports when going abroad, and the fact that if you are going away for long periods of time, it is unreasonable to think that you will sit in your motel not spending any money when not flying. You will need some money for 'entertainment' and unforeseen activities.
I always added a 10% figure to my budgets as a minimum, since things are always more expensive than you think they will be. Plus, most will go over by 3-5 hrs on their IR, and many get partials, which requires additional funding. The last thing you want to worry about is finances when you are already under pressure in your IR.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Scotland
Age: 38
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello Nick,
Firstly have a look at this thread - http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649
Its very hard to explain in full detail all the routes and options available to you. The best way is to start reading about all the routes then ask questions.
Some key notes to help: Modular is roughly 20k cheaper than Integrated (your 60k figure sounds integrated). If you train in the USA (FAA) you need to convert your license to JAA (European), costs roughly 15k conversion charges and you need to do all the ATPL groundschool here in the UK (6-7 months), 14 exams.
Doing a modular training route - theres nothing stopping you paying as go while holding a job so you limit your exposure to debt via loans.
Firstly have a look at this thread - http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=131649
Its very hard to explain in full detail all the routes and options available to you. The best way is to start reading about all the routes then ask questions.
Some key notes to help: Modular is roughly 20k cheaper than Integrated (your 60k figure sounds integrated). If you train in the USA (FAA) you need to convert your license to JAA (European), costs roughly 15k conversion charges and you need to do all the ATPL groundschool here in the UK (6-7 months), 14 exams.
Doing a modular training route - theres nothing stopping you paying as go while holding a job so you limit your exposure to debt via loans.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ireland
Age: 38
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Price List to Be A Professional Pilot
I am living in Ireland and I want to get my ppl and then go on and fly commercially. The minimum price list in The Pilot Training College of Ireland is €63500. I was at the open day and they said it will take every pilot around €100,000 to finish.
My question is this, based on the price list below could you compare a rough estimate on how much extra you would have to add in the different areas of the course to make up the 100,000 from €63500.
PPL = €11565
Hours Building = €10400
ATPL Theoretical Studies = €2500
Multi Engine Rating = €5745
CPL = 9400
Multi Engine Instrument Rating = €19495
Multi Crew Cooperation Course = €4800
Total Price = €63905
My question is this, based on the price list below could you compare a rough estimate on how much extra you would have to add in the different areas of the course to make up the 100,000 from €63500.
PPL = €11565
Hours Building = €10400
ATPL Theoretical Studies = €2500
Multi Engine Rating = €5745
CPL = 9400
Multi Engine Instrument Rating = €19495
Multi Crew Cooperation Course = €4800
Total Price = €63905
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: on another planet
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
keith to , you are going in the right direction. aviation training in ireland is twice the price of the states or elsewhere in europe. ripoff republic ( though its not totally the flight schools fault ).
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lot of people have little idea as to the hidden costs of the training. Certainly totally ignore 1900 for gropund school. Try 3 grand by the time you have booked exams, accomodation, meals etc. Fortunatly I have only paid about 260 pounds for all of my ground studies due to using resettlement fees from the Forces. Doing the hour building as I go minimising the blow on that front. I will be only requiring a 20k loan to complete my CPL/IR nad MCC!