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European Flight Training (EFT)

Old 11th Jan 2007, 17:08
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 9
One final thought...

If you go someplace to train, then return there over a year later, prices are bound to cahnge. Heck, even Disney World changes their prices!!
charliealpha is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2007, 19:36
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK, In the middle at the bottom and sometimes in Manchester!
Posts: 100
Hi all,
I did hours building and the CPL at EFT in 2005 and I found them to be very accommodating to all the students, as long as they were on time for ALL briefings and flights.
The standard of instruction was second to none and all the instructors were very helpful and with that thought I got a first time pass on the CPL (cheers Mark, I owe you several beer tokens!!!!). I never had a problem with getting an aircraft as long as YOU have scheduled yourself in for one.
I stayed in the apartments near Vero Beach and was great, remember its only a place to park your bones after your flight and it is also quiet enough to study.
To all of you thinking about going to EFT, go and judge it yourself and don't be persuaded otherwise by posts from people who obviously didn't enjoy it there......or perhaps did not do very well!!
I enjoyed it anyway so there!!
M.
mackey is offline  
Old 11th Jan 2007, 21:36
  #163 (permalink)  


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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Orlando, Florida
Age: 64
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Heck, even Disney World changes their prices!!
Not once you've bought the tickets, they don't (no matter HOW long you wait before using them).
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Old 11th Jan 2007, 23:36
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 37
Posts: 830
Originally Posted by charliealpha View Post
Anybody having questions regarding things shown on PPRuNe about E.F.T. should contact the school directly.
I am not going to judge. But it's tens of thousands of my hard earned cash and I want to get what is best and I think EFT can offer this.

I shall get in contact with them soon and ask them a few questions that are bothering me. But it does seem unfair why Ari Ben get the same accomodation for a lot less $$$. Why shouldnt I simply go to AriBen and save the needed $$$? I can only afford one shot at this so I need a back up plan.
AlphaMale is offline  
Old 12th Jan 2007, 00:50
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Horsham
Age: 41
Posts: 116
Originally Posted by charliealpha View Post
Let's put the truth here about housing accomodation and vehicle rentals, instead of rumours and ranting:
The housing accomodation costs did increase, this is true. The truth is, costs actually increased as of November 1st, but we did not raise the students costs until January 1st, so that students could plan ahead. There was no discrimination against Europeans, as indicated by one ranter, but an overall cost increase all the way across the board, even for American time builder students. The only exceptions to this at this time are those students who are signed up for a course, such as the Pro Course or Airline Pilot Programme that housing costs are already included in. The changes to the housing costs were posted on our website December 1st.
To be fair, I was informed of the price/policy change two days ago. You updated the sales side of the website, under "about EFT". Why would one of your students since '05, who signed up for the proffesional licences months ago read this part of the site? Even now the site is still incorrect, with no mention that your $35 a day includes car hire. The Aviator site is also out of date, still offering accomodation for $500 or $600 dependent on location, hence the "rant", as the website hasn't been updated weeks after the change.
This is how the system works: the cost of $35.00 per day includes housing and transport. There is a shuttle which runs every 2 hours back and forth to the apartments, and each apartment includes a shared car between the two occupants of the apartment. Once you arrive for enrollment, you are assigned the vehicle and added to the insurance policy for that vehicle. Yes, they are insured!!!!! All our current vehicles are late model economy sized vehicles, not junky or mechanically unsound.
If you are unhappy with what we offer in terms of housing and transport, then there are plenty of motels that are not within walking distance of the school, and you can rent a car from a rental car agency. The choice is yours. Our accomodations are offered as a convenience to our students.
Anybody having questions regarding things shown on PPRuNe about E.F.T. should contact the school directly.
None of the original complainants have commented on the insurance issue. The issue has and always was the fact that we no longer had the cheaper option to buy and insure our own car, which is much cheaper. I personally enjoyed owning and running an old American car. We could own/rent a jap car in the UK, part of the experience of being at EFT previously for me was taking part in the american lifestyle and buying an American car, or at least having the choice to. Yes we have the option of sorting out our own accomodation, but it is a bit difficult when we are informed 6 days before flying to Florida! Myself and a fellow student saved a fortune the last time we were out in Florida with EFT, owning and running a fantastic American convertible, which was fully legal.
Just to add that I did receive a call from the head of EFT tonight to discuss my concerns over these issues. It was grateful for the phone call and we addressed the issues concerned. This was the customer service you expect from such a top school such as EFT.
cosworth211 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2007, 11:27
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 212
I came accross all the same problems, and as soon is I mentioned them to EFT, they started to ignore my emails.

Ive decided to go to Ari Ben, you get the same course for 50% less $$$$$
davey147 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2007, 17:29
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sky
Posts: 47
I see that most reactions are very positive about EFT.
I must say there site is very informative and detailed, so no complaints about the having all the information you need.

I am looking for students & instructors who are willing to sent me PM with their experiences at EFT.

So if you (ex-students, ex-instructors) could send me a PM with all your positive/negative experiences with EFT (Fort Pierce), you would help me further in making a decission.

Thanks in advance

A future APP student...
Cpt. Relax is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2007, 18:30
  #168 (permalink)  
The Cooler King
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
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Originally Posted by NH2390 View Post
EFT isn't a real school. EFT is basically a broker, charging inflated prices for people to go to an FAA school called Ari-Ben Aviator. They have none of their own facilities, apart from a small admin office, and none of their own airplanes. Most of your instruction is done by Aviator instructors at a higher rate than what Aviator students are paying. For example, Aviator's own program is $36,000, and the only other things EFT will give you is a JAA CPL conversion and JAA CFI. Most of your hours will come from working for Ari-Ben Aviator as an instructor, instructing EFT and Aviator students.

Don't think for a second I'm reccomending Aviator. It's poorly managed, with incompetent staff, poor maintenance and worse availability of airplanes. The same airplanes you'd be flying as an EFT student.

If you want to fly in the states I recommend going to another FAA school that has a J1 program and then instructing. You can then do your CPL conversion. You will save a lot of money this way.
You will need to back up those statements with facts.
EFT students are trained (with the odd exception) by EFT instructors.
Aviator is very well managed and so is EFT - if they weren't, they simply wouldn't survive.
You will not be working for Ariben as an instructor.
You will instruct EFT students as an EFT instructor. There is a difference between the two instructor certificates......you are making me suspicious.....how much about this business do you really know, and how much is just shooting your mouth off!

The thread at the moment is around accommodation charges.....stick to it for now eh?
Farrell is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2007, 21:02
  #169 (permalink)  
Educated Hillbilly
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: From the Hills
Posts: 793
The reason Ari Ben survives is because it offers extremely cheap training and multi hour building compared to other schools; It is well managed in the financial sense but I wouldn't say customer focus is a strong agenda in the Ari Ben business philosophy.
portsharbourflyer is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2007, 21:19
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Farrell View Post
You will need to back up those statements with facts.
EFT students are trained (with the odd exception) by EFT instructors.
Aviator is very well managed and so is EFT - if they weren't, they simply wouldn't survive.
You will not be working for Ariben as an instructor.
You will instruct EFT students as an EFT instructor. There is a difference between the two instructor certificates......you are making me suspicious.....how much about this business do you really know, and how much is just shooting your mouth off!

The thread at the moment is around accommodation charges.....stick to it for now eh?

Would you like me to back up my statements with facts or just talk about accomodation charges?

At the time I made these statements was while people (including instructors at the school) were still telling me I was wrong for exposing the hike in accomodation prices. Maybe some people should have listened. I believe everything else I said has been confirmed by other posts.
The lack of any EFT facilities is well known.
When I was at the school last summer, EFT students completed their FAA ratings with FAA-only instructors before doing JAA conversions. I believe there are currently more JAA instructors, and so some students are currently doing all their training with them.
You will be working for Ari Ben. You'll be instructing JAA students, but Ari-Ben still pays your paycheck, as has been confirmed by other posts.
Ari-Ben is very badly managed. They survive only because they claim to be $9000 cheaper than a large FAA school called ATP. The claims are misleading, but many people don't find out until locked into a contract.
NH2390 is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2007, 23:03
  #171 (permalink)  
The Cooler King
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
Posts: 1,665
Still no facts NH....

It's all just hearsay until you come up with those.

Both Ari and EFT are fine. Not badly managed however, I will agree that from a customer service perspective that they "appear" to lack.

I have first hand experience of dealing with both schools and still keep in touch with instructors from both schools on a weekly basis.

With regards to EFT, the accommodation charge is still open for debate, and from the outset it looks like a mistake has been made in how it was handled to give you your due.

However, with respect to Ariben and Mike and TJ etc.....the school does exactly what it says on the tin!

Play the ball......
Farrell is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 00:44
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Working for peanuts somewhere
Age: 43
Posts: 10
NH2390,

You obviously don't have a clue what you are talking about as you have mis-interpreted what is commonly called the APP program at EFT.

As part of this program a student will complete their FAA ratings as this will them allow them to fly legally in the US when they return for the final phase of the program which is as an instructor for EFT.

Would you not agree that the best people to train a student for this would be an FAA CFI as opposed to a predominately JAA schooled and trained CFI. I think so. This has nothing to do with a lack of instructors on EFT's part. A nice and simple sharing of resources which makes sense for everyone.

I still can't believe you are going on about EFT's facilities, they share them with Ari Ben as part of their agreement. What exists for Ari Ben exists for EFT and it is perfectly legitimate for them to advertise that. You are trying to make something out of nothing. If you have problems with Ari Ben, go start your own post on flightinfo, but stop hijacking this one.
Mono del dia is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 01:10
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 45
What facts would you like?

You have instructors here like Mark Collins agreeing on this thread they were working for Ari-Ben.

People said I was making it up about the accomodation charges, but I've again been proven right.

How can I prove it's badly managed? Beyond telling you about things I've seen? Thankfully, I'm no longer at the school, I can't show you photos from dispatch showing how many planes are down.

The school doesn't do what it says on the tin, because as soon as you look inside, you find the contents are rotten.

Mono,

I'm not still going on about anything. I was told to bring facts, I stated some things were common knowledge, as you agree they are. I left this thread well alone until somone started attacking me. I'll add this thread was resurected after somone found out I was right.

Something you're right about. I do think an FAA instructor is the best way to train somone for an FAA rating. But why pay twice Aviators price to EFT for the same training?
NH2390 is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 04:10
  #174 (permalink)  
The Cooler King
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In the Desert
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Originally Posted by NH2390 View Post
You have instructors here like Mark Collins agreeing on this thread they were working for Ari-Ben.
If you would care to read Mark's post again carefully, you will find that he said that he got paid by Ariben - but as far I am concerned, he worked for EFT.

As my learned friend said, between your thread drift and nit-picking, if you have an axe to grind, take it elsewhere.
Farrell is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 05:12
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Age: 43
Posts: 22
Just to clarify; I never worked for Ari Ben. Not once did I train any of their students, therefore I didn't work for them.

To get technical about it I was gaining work related experience from EFT for which, under the terms of the J1 visa you are allowed to recieve compensation.

I was merely a contractor who was paid by Ari Ben aviator for services provided to EFT.

Anyway, enough about me! How about we get back to discussing the issues at hand. Seeing as I am no longer at EFT I can't comment on the accomodation issue so I will just sit here and let the more well informed discuss it.
Mark Collins is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 09:36
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sky
Posts: 47
Could somebody answer following questions about the APP (multi engine option):

They say the examn fees are not included in the price.
But: Do you need to rent the aircraft for the examn, or is it just the amount for the test you have to pay.

Because if you also have to pay for the rent of the aircraft it will be a very big sum (in the APP you need to get a lot of licences).


Other questions:

- Do they guarantee 1500h on paper?
- Will they stick to their shedule and finish all training in 6 months (all FAA & JAA including CFI CFII MEI)
- Does the avarage instructor work for about 100h/month
- Are the books (FAA & JAA) included in the price

ps: Are there any costs wich are extremely hidden? (not housing, car, examns fees, )
Cpt. Relax is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 13:59
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 9
APP ME:

The programme includes aircraft hire for tests, but not the test fees themselves.

It is recommended that you purchase Trevor Thom books for your JAA portion, but this is not mandatory, and the school has books to lend.

Plan on investing in a personal headset, and of course maps and things of that nature. A list of recommended supplies can be sent to you by email if you request.

As far as flying hours and pricing, you can request for the Head of Training to send you a copy of the contract beforehand, as this is done for students quite often. Amount of hours and pricing depends on which program you choose, as there are a couple of different options after Phase One.
charliealpha is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 16:26
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Farrell View Post
If you would care to read Mark's post again carefully, you will find that he said that he got paid by Ariben - but as far I am concerned, he worked for EFT.

As my learned friend said, between your thread drift and nit-picking, if you have an axe to grind, take it elsewhere.
Not to nit-pick, but you're the one drifting this thread off the topic, by bringing up a post more than a month old.

Mark Collins has confirmed that he was EMPLOYED BY Ari Ben to instruct EFT students, my original comments relating to his employer are entirely relevent, no matter who he is instructing.
EDIT: Just to add, some EFT instructors do teach Ari-Ben students.


People were complaining about the ridiculous accommodation charges, which are now 150% the cost of my three bed appartment in Vero Beach (which, I'll add, is much nicer than The Pines, which is known by current students by a very nasty word ). Hopefully potential students will recognise good advice.

Maybe YOU should let them go back to that . Or maybe you should address some of the questions which ARE specific to EFT that Cpt. Relax has just rasied.

NH2390 is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 17:49
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 37
Posts: 830
Originally Posted by Cpt. Relax View Post
Other questions:
- Do they guarantee 1500h on paper?
- Will they stick to their shedule and finish all training in 6 months (all FAA & JAA including CFI CFII MEI)
- Does the avarage instructor work for about 100h/month
- Are the books (FAA & JAA) included in the price
ps: Are there any costs wich are extremely hidden? (not housing, car, examns fees, )
There are 3 of us waiting for the answers.

My main question is the first one and the third one.

If I am nly able to teach for 20 hours per month (@$10/$15 per hour) I will have around $250 for that month. But I'll be paying $1,000 a month for accomodation not to mention other costs like food etc.

And if after 18 months I only come away with 600 hours as opposed to the 1,500 hours I will not be impressed. 100 ours of instucting per month will able me to self fund myself for the 12 months of instructing.

If this can't be done I might aswell do the PPL/Night/ME/Multi CPL/IR/FI and then teach in the UK were my accomodation is much cheaper. And have the option of going back to work and flying weekends to build up the hours.

I will be calling EFT in the summer when I am closer to having my funds. I just hope they do what they say they do on the tin. Or at least let me finish with over 1,000 hours.
AlphaMale is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2007, 19:49
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sky
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by AlphaMale View Post
There are 3 of us waiting for the answers.

My main question is the first one and the third one.

If I am nly able to teach for 20 hours per month (@$10/$15 per hour) I will have around $250 for that month. But I'll be paying $1,000 a month for accomodation not to mention other costs like food etc.

And if after 18 months I only come away with 600 hours as opposed to the 1,500 hours I will not be impressed. 100 ours of instucting per month will able me to self fund myself for the 12 months of instructing.

If this can't be done I might aswell do the PPL/Night/ME/Multi CPL/IR/FI and then teach in the UK were my accomodation is much cheaper. And have the option of going back to work and flying weekends to build up the hours.

I will be calling EFT in the summer when I am closer to having my funds. I just hope they do what they say they do on the tin. Or at least let me finish with over 1,000 hours.

I called them today.

What the APP concerns:

- First you need to do basic training (JAA & FAA PPL) (phase 1)
- Then you need to go back to Europe to do the ATPL theory (because you need it to do any further JAA-training (like JAA CPL) (phase 2)
- Then you return to EFT to complete the professional training (phase 3)
- Then you are employed at EFT (phase 4)

In phase 1 & 3 you will study on M1 Visa, phase 4 will be working on J1 visa with a maximum of 2 year.

ps: if you read this don't forget to look at my questions is asked in my previous posting
Cpt. Relax is offline  

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