BANKRUPTCY!! Pushed to the edge....
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The outcry related not the facts of what is possible, but:
a) to your explicit advocation of a criminal fraud, and
b) to the simplistic listing of the illusory benefits of doing so.
It would be naive to think youngsters who read this do not take what is written by "the experienced" members as gospel. The fact is that as a moderator, you should be well aware of this fact and the impressionability of youngsters.
That you are seemingly not aware of that has lost you a huge amount of respect.
a) to your explicit advocation of a criminal fraud, and
b) to the simplistic listing of the illusory benefits of doing so.
It would be naive to think youngsters who read this do not take what is written by "the experienced" members as gospel. The fact is that as a moderator, you should be well aware of this fact and the impressionability of youngsters.
That you are seemingly not aware of that has lost you a huge amount of respect.
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re reheat
The fact is that as a moderator, you should be well aware of this fact and the impressionability of youngsters.
YES - The advice/opinion given by WWW could be taken too literally.
NO - The people that are in a position to do this are 'grown-ups' and have 'common sense'. If not then good luck to them and they will learn the hard way, if it's from opinions in this forum, a TV advert, the list goes on. Young impressionables can't become bankrupt!
Why don't we discuss the topic rather than discussing WWW's parenting ability?
Dave
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Interesting thread and very interesting that WWW's playing devils advocat!
I see your logic WWW and your points are valid. The option should be considered if your in a pickle after flight training not before it IMO.
This thread should be a good insight as to why wannabes shouldn't dive head first into loans to achieve their dream career. Loans are great, especially the CDL, but 50K plus loans are just plain stupid, especially when you consider bonding/FI rating and TRs now.
Certainly a situation I would avidly avoid.
I see your logic WWW and your points are valid. The option should be considered if your in a pickle after flight training not before it IMO.
This thread should be a good insight as to why wannabes shouldn't dive head first into loans to achieve their dream career. Loans are great, especially the CDL, but 50K plus loans are just plain stupid, especially when you consider bonding/FI rating and TRs now.
Certainly a situation I would avidly avoid.
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I don't see anything wrong with WWW's suggestions. Those are the rules of the game - you play by the rules - so what if you're manipulating the rules to your advantage - that's what I call "Entrepreneurial spirit".
If anyone is at fault, morally or legally, it's the Government for i) allowing financial service companies to lend such large amounts of unsecured money and ii) allowing bankruptees to be discharged so quickly and lightly.
I don't see any stigma attached to someone with a free £87k license and bankrupt for a couple of years.
If anyone is at fault, morally or legally, it's the Government for i) allowing financial service companies to lend such large amounts of unsecured money and ii) allowing bankruptees to be discharged so quickly and lightly.
I don't see any stigma attached to someone with a free £87k license and bankrupt for a couple of years.
Flying training lends itself so well to a planned bankruptcy plan.
I can't think of another way of blatantly spending £50k inside of 18 months on something that has no monetary value to the baliffs but which you can stand in front of a judge afterwards and make a reasonable case for why and and how you spent it and planned to repay it.
Its the perfect crime.
And lets not be coy here, crime it is.
But if you want a PPRuNe hosted version of the moral maze then lets talk about that pint of milk you once stole of a doorstep as a student. Or apple scrumping. Or accepting a partially used car parking ticket from a kind stranger.
And then lets move on to the morality of the money lenders so willing and forceful in their sale of easy credit to people who in years gone by would never have been allowed to get themselves in such debt troubles.
And then lets stop being hysterical about something which has already been done and is being done now by perfectly rational and perfectly nice Wannabes.
The simple truth is that you can't construct a decent argument why my hypothetical 22yr old son and I don't engage a planned bankruptcy plan and save circa £90k. OTHER than to play the morality card and shriek its illegal.
Which I don't directly contest.
Cheers
WWW
I can't think of another way of blatantly spending £50k inside of 18 months on something that has no monetary value to the baliffs but which you can stand in front of a judge afterwards and make a reasonable case for why and and how you spent it and planned to repay it.
Its the perfect crime.
And lets not be coy here, crime it is.
But if you want a PPRuNe hosted version of the moral maze then lets talk about that pint of milk you once stole of a doorstep as a student. Or apple scrumping. Or accepting a partially used car parking ticket from a kind stranger.
And then lets move on to the morality of the money lenders so willing and forceful in their sale of easy credit to people who in years gone by would never have been allowed to get themselves in such debt troubles.
And then lets stop being hysterical about something which has already been done and is being done now by perfectly rational and perfectly nice Wannabes.
The simple truth is that you can't construct a decent argument why my hypothetical 22yr old son and I don't engage a planned bankruptcy plan and save circa £90k. OTHER than to play the morality card and shriek its illegal.
Which I don't directly contest.
Cheers
WWW
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No - I stand by the logic of using planned bankruptcy to fund your basic training.
You use the loans and credit to pay for your exams and flight training and THEN go bankrupt at the end when you are unfortunately unemployed and seeking work.
The period of bankruptcy lasts 2 years. After which all normal credit and mortgage products are open to you. You are not allowed to become a company director or to be an accountant. Big deal.
WWW
You use the loans and credit to pay for your exams and flight training and THEN go bankrupt at the end when you are unfortunately unemployed and seeking work.
The period of bankruptcy lasts 2 years. After which all normal credit and mortgage products are open to you. You are not allowed to become a company director or to be an accountant. Big deal.
WWW
Thats not a smart thing to do and I suspect that lenders will be less inclined to take a borrower going bankrupt on the chin if they have any suspicions that there was no intention of repayment.
So advocating that as a way forward is pretty stupid.
The other consequence of rampent bankruptcy is that those borrowers who choose not to go bankrupt end up paying for those who do in higher interest rates, in that sense WWW you advocate anti social behaviour. But then this is symptomatic of todays selfish culture where people must have what they want (including pilot training) because they do and hang the consequences. The shell suit society except these have gold bars on their shoulders.
It does not give you much faith in the ethical, moral or judgement capacity of people who swan around the sky at 500mph with 200-300 lives in their hands.
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Twit-twoo!!
Hi All,
Been a while. I've been breedin' for JESUS!!!
Got two small greys, Spitfire and Typhoon.
Not quite TWIT-TWOO more EAK-EAK at the moment.
Anyway, let's get back on subject....
If any of you have read this thread right from the beginning, I was a IP (Insolvency Practitioner) in a past life, so no this subject well.
Let's clear up a few things first...
1 Yes, you can have a Bank account while Bankrupt.
2 Yes, you can run a business, as a sole trader (not mistook for a soul-trader - James Brown RIP), Partnee in a partnership (but must let the others know) and even as a company director in a limited company (very rare but possible as you need DTI permission).
I will now respond to a few postees.
Bealzebub,
HSBC have stopped funding pilot finance (except for OAT?) for one reason only - the investment is not worth the return. £100,000 for a salary of £30000 before tax for the next 5 years. They haven't stopped Doctor finance, Why? Because their salaries have increased and ours haven't.
Banks are now really only interested in £100,000 + P.A. , the rest can go to the credit unions and community banks. This is not far fetched either. In Oz, HSBC you have to have a monthly income/deposit of $AU2000 per month to have a basic account.
Re-Heat, Chartered Accountant. Well, What can I say? You are a hypocrite.
Chartered Accountants are the biggest crooks in this country. It's fine for professional to use the "system" to avoid paying tax. What's the figure? £10 BILLION every year not paid due tax holes exploited by the likes of you. Robbing, every chid of a proper education, a well funded NHS, a proper military with equipment and you have the self-opinionated, obnoxious belief that you can pontificate to US mear mortals about the rights and wrongs of Bankruptcy! What absolute cheek.
I had to deal with your "professionally" compiled Bu11$hit, called accounts. Christ, it makes me angry.
What is wrong if the small man in the street wants to use the system to better one's self? What's the difference? I bet the CEO of Barclays didn't give $hit when he got his bonuses and pay of £26 million, while sacking thousands and exporting jobs to India, at the behest of so called professional like yourself.
Been a while. I've been breedin' for JESUS!!!
Got two small greys, Spitfire and Typhoon.
Not quite TWIT-TWOO more EAK-EAK at the moment.
Anyway, let's get back on subject....
If any of you have read this thread right from the beginning, I was a IP (Insolvency Practitioner) in a past life, so no this subject well.
Let's clear up a few things first...
1 Yes, you can have a Bank account while Bankrupt.
2 Yes, you can run a business, as a sole trader (not mistook for a soul-trader - James Brown RIP), Partnee in a partnership (but must let the others know) and even as a company director in a limited company (very rare but possible as you need DTI permission).
I will now respond to a few postees.
Bealzebub,
HSBC have stopped funding pilot finance (except for OAT?) for one reason only - the investment is not worth the return. £100,000 for a salary of £30000 before tax for the next 5 years. They haven't stopped Doctor finance, Why? Because their salaries have increased and ours haven't.
Banks are now really only interested in £100,000 + P.A. , the rest can go to the credit unions and community banks. This is not far fetched either. In Oz, HSBC you have to have a monthly income/deposit of $AU2000 per month to have a basic account.
Re-Heat, Chartered Accountant. Well, What can I say? You are a hypocrite.
Chartered Accountants are the biggest crooks in this country. It's fine for professional to use the "system" to avoid paying tax. What's the figure? £10 BILLION every year not paid due tax holes exploited by the likes of you. Robbing, every chid of a proper education, a well funded NHS, a proper military with equipment and you have the self-opinionated, obnoxious belief that you can pontificate to US mear mortals about the rights and wrongs of Bankruptcy! What absolute cheek.
I had to deal with your "professionally" compiled Bu11$hit, called accounts. Christ, it makes me angry.
What is wrong if the small man in the street wants to use the system to better one's self? What's the difference? I bet the CEO of Barclays didn't give $hit when he got his bonuses and pay of £26 million, while sacking thousands and exporting jobs to India, at the behest of so called professional like yourself.
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Although a planned method of bankruptcy to fund your training doesn't sit well with me.
Those that have signed up for courses in good faith and not had the breaks that some of us have. I really can see WWW's point of view.
Half the reaction of the financial service guys is I think a gut one. Its a bit like when you suggest that your not going to pay into a pension but instead pay the same money into your morgage and pay it off 15 years early. The give you a look and start talking technical speak. When the question is asked about the fact that by completing 15 years early you will save 80k in interest and your pension won't have even half of that in, it in the same time, you get a scowl. Thats 5% of service charges lost to the industry for good.
If everyone went for bankruptcy it would drag thier very comfy existence into doudt.
I know a couple of folk who have been zero'd by various methods. One had loans out from the natwest of over 60k unsecured. Strangly enough the natwest wrote off the amount due when the bankruptcy card was played. That was without being declared. As part of the "deal" a gagging order was applied. I think the banks don't want people to declare, the current system makes them lots of money for not alot of work. If there was a surge in people declaring it put pressure on the powers that be to regulate them in a manner that would effect profits.
I would agree with WWW and his pretend son. Only problem I could see is if and when you did get a job and a bonding loan is required you are knackard.
The up shot is that it dosn't effect the individual seriously from what I can tell. You may have to pay slighly more in the future for some services but nothing like what has been written off. The Banks are greedy swines and 3 years down the line and your on 40k a year and wanting a morgage they will sell you one. After a couple of years paying on time you will be able to transfer onto a better deal.
People that will be effected is the people who are 2 years behind them in training system. When the availabilty of money dry's up. Which to be honest would be no bad thing in my opinion.
Those that have signed up for courses in good faith and not had the breaks that some of us have. I really can see WWW's point of view.
Half the reaction of the financial service guys is I think a gut one. Its a bit like when you suggest that your not going to pay into a pension but instead pay the same money into your morgage and pay it off 15 years early. The give you a look and start talking technical speak. When the question is asked about the fact that by completing 15 years early you will save 80k in interest and your pension won't have even half of that in, it in the same time, you get a scowl. Thats 5% of service charges lost to the industry for good.
If everyone went for bankruptcy it would drag thier very comfy existence into doudt.
I know a couple of folk who have been zero'd by various methods. One had loans out from the natwest of over 60k unsecured. Strangly enough the natwest wrote off the amount due when the bankruptcy card was played. That was without being declared. As part of the "deal" a gagging order was applied. I think the banks don't want people to declare, the current system makes them lots of money for not alot of work. If there was a surge in people declaring it put pressure on the powers that be to regulate them in a manner that would effect profits.
I would agree with WWW and his pretend son. Only problem I could see is if and when you did get a job and a bonding loan is required you are knackard.
The up shot is that it dosn't effect the individual seriously from what I can tell. You may have to pay slighly more in the future for some services but nothing like what has been written off. The Banks are greedy swines and 3 years down the line and your on 40k a year and wanting a morgage they will sell you one. After a couple of years paying on time you will be able to transfer onto a better deal.
People that will be effected is the people who are 2 years behind them in training system. When the availabilty of money dry's up. Which to be honest would be no bad thing in my opinion.
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The moralisers on this thread really winding me up. I mean who is really going to lose sleep over depriving a bank of £50k? To defraud a bank or credit card company intentionally may not be legal but I would say that morally this course of action would elevate you to the choirs of angels on high. If banks and other lenders want their customers to play nice, they should try leading by example. If you have not been in financial trouble before, you will not know what I mean.
I borrowed the money to fund my training in good faith and it was my misfortune to have completed my training 3 months prior to 9/11. However, the course of action that WWW mentions or possibly advocates (oh my god!!!) sounds reasonable to me. It may not be legal but nor is driving your car at 35mph in a 30mph zone and I know which I think is the more anti social crime.
I borrowed the money to fund my training in good faith and it was my misfortune to have completed my training 3 months prior to 9/11. However, the course of action that WWW mentions or possibly advocates (oh my god!!!) sounds reasonable to me. It may not be legal but nor is driving your car at 35mph in a 30mph zone and I know which I think is the more anti social crime.
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Maltese Falcon.
I would suggest if people talking of doing things legally (i.e. following the laws of the land) winds you up, perhaps you have picked the wrong profession. I find it amazing you put those who follow the rules on a level below those who gain advantage by deception. To praise these practises in an almost religious manner smacks of an anti-authority trait which could be cause for concern. Where would this attitude end. "Oh cat I minima is only there for the moralists".
I sympathise with those who complete their training at a time when things slow or who have a run of bad luck when job hunting. And if bankruptcy is the only way out, this is not a slur on them and I wholeheartidly support that course of action. But to deliberately enter into a fraudulent course of action is despicable.
Sadly the world is a changing place. It is a stark realisation where we are headed as a race, when on a public forum, illegal actions are flouted as being `right`and those who want to follow the rules are branded "moralisers".
I too do not like the amount of bank charges but with more like you about, these are only set to get worse.
Signed
Proud to be a "Moraliser"
I would suggest if people talking of doing things legally (i.e. following the laws of the land) winds you up, perhaps you have picked the wrong profession. I find it amazing you put those who follow the rules on a level below those who gain advantage by deception. To praise these practises in an almost religious manner smacks of an anti-authority trait which could be cause for concern. Where would this attitude end. "Oh cat I minima is only there for the moralists".
I sympathise with those who complete their training at a time when things slow or who have a run of bad luck when job hunting. And if bankruptcy is the only way out, this is not a slur on them and I wholeheartidly support that course of action. But to deliberately enter into a fraudulent course of action is despicable.
Sadly the world is a changing place. It is a stark realisation where we are headed as a race, when on a public forum, illegal actions are flouted as being `right`and those who want to follow the rules are branded "moralisers".
I too do not like the amount of bank charges but with more like you about, these are only set to get worse.
Signed
Proud to be a "Moraliser"
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The moralisers may well be winding you up, presumably because you dont want to hear what doesn't suit you. That is not uncommon generally but certainly it is a widely held view when somebody is attempting to justify what they know is wrong.
It doesn't bother me too much if a person wants to borrow money with the intention of not paying it back.
In much the same way it doesn't bother me much if you want to steal food from a shop because you are hungry.
It doesn't bother me if you want to drive through a built up area in excess of the speed limit because you are late.
It doesn't bother me if you want to claim unemployment benefits whilst you are actually working.
It doesn't bother me if you want to make a false claim for compensation because you a bit hard up.
None of these things bother me, because they have such a negligable impact on my daily life, and because I do not know you. If that were not the case then I would be greatly bothered.
The virtual parents out there can hypothesize to their hearts content, but in real world 1.1, ethics and morals, values and behaviour are something that you spend a lot of time trying to impart on your offspring sometimes with very limited success.
It has already been repeated many times that people do find themselves in trouble sometimes for a variety of reasons that may or may not be within their control. Maturity is in part a combination of your ethics, experience, behaviour and character. Maturity is also an important attribute in what an employer (certainly in aviation) is looking for. If a potential employer suspects or perceives such weakness it is unlikely to be a point in your favour ? As far as bankruptcy is concerned, some employers will run a credit check. I have seen this on application forms for overseas companies (the latest growth markets.)
It doesn't bother me too much if you want to defraud banks, insurance companies or anybody else. Some of the nit wit ideas on here are in fact little more than passing entertainment. I was however surprised to see the forum moderator promoting such ideas.
It doesn't bother me too much if a person wants to borrow money with the intention of not paying it back.
In much the same way it doesn't bother me much if you want to steal food from a shop because you are hungry.
It doesn't bother me if you want to drive through a built up area in excess of the speed limit because you are late.
It doesn't bother me if you want to claim unemployment benefits whilst you are actually working.
It doesn't bother me if you want to make a false claim for compensation because you a bit hard up.
None of these things bother me, because they have such a negligable impact on my daily life, and because I do not know you. If that were not the case then I would be greatly bothered.
The virtual parents out there can hypothesize to their hearts content, but in real world 1.1, ethics and morals, values and behaviour are something that you spend a lot of time trying to impart on your offspring sometimes with very limited success.
It has already been repeated many times that people do find themselves in trouble sometimes for a variety of reasons that may or may not be within their control. Maturity is in part a combination of your ethics, experience, behaviour and character. Maturity is also an important attribute in what an employer (certainly in aviation) is looking for. If a potential employer suspects or perceives such weakness it is unlikely to be a point in your favour ? As far as bankruptcy is concerned, some employers will run a credit check. I have seen this on application forms for overseas companies (the latest growth markets.)
It doesn't bother me too much if you want to defraud banks, insurance companies or anybody else. Some of the nit wit ideas on here are in fact little more than passing entertainment. I was however surprised to see the forum moderator promoting such ideas.
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Its all down to attitudes an opinions, and that is what gets you the job!
I know the kinda people I would rather sit next to for 8 hrs a day, someone with a bit of spirit, and I think you'll find that it is people like WWW that ARE in flying jobs, and the stuck up `do gooders` that are mostly wanabees.
Screw the banks! They will screw you whenever they get the chance.
I know the kinda people I would rather sit next to for 8 hrs a day, someone with a bit of spirit, and I think you'll find that it is people like WWW that ARE in flying jobs, and the stuck up `do gooders` that are mostly wanabees.
Screw the banks! They will screw you whenever they get the chance.
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hixton,
For someone who seems to have just started your airline career you sound like you could possibly have the classic disorder of 'Thinking you know more than you really do'.
Perhaps try waiting more than 5 mins before you make outrageous assumptions on the best type of personality's required for crew members.
Or maybe I am completely wrong and we should be calling you Dr hixton.
For someone who seems to have just started your airline career you sound like you could possibly have the classic disorder of 'Thinking you know more than you really do'.
Perhaps try waiting more than 5 mins before you make outrageous assumptions on the best type of personality's required for crew members.
Or maybe I am completely wrong and we should be calling you Dr hixton.
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Its all down to attitudes an opinions, and that is what gets you the job!
I know the kinda people I would rather sit next to for 8 hrs a day, someone with a bit of spirit, and I think you'll find that it is people like WWW that ARE in flying jobs, and the stuck up `do gooders` that are mostly wanabees.
Screw the banks! They will screw you whenever they get the chance.
I know the kinda people I would rather sit next to for 8 hrs a day, someone with a bit of spirit, and I think you'll find that it is people like WWW that ARE in flying jobs, and the stuck up `do gooders` that are mostly wanabees.
Screw the banks! They will screw you whenever they get the chance.
You may well "know the sort of people you would rather sit next to for 8 hours a day", but who cares ? You are the wannabee applicant. It matters if the interviewer would rather sit next to you for (8 hours ?) more like 12 hours and sometimes much more. How will you be, sitting next to a variety of people ? Do you have the flexibility, stability of character, self discipline, and maturity to deal with both the routine and the extreme ?
After 30 years in the industry I have never actually known anyone to get through an interview with the "I know who I gel with and want to fly with" and "screw the banks" type attitude, but who knows maybe it will work for you ?
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Hixton for someone who doesn't like extremists you seem to have quite extreme views....
Pay back your loan = loser
Default on your loan = general all round good egg who I'd like to sit next to everyday for 8 hours
I have read a lot of c*ap on Pprune over the last couple of years about getting into debt but your post I think probably takes the biscuit.... congratulations (I suspect a wind-up)!
Pay back your loan = loser
Default on your loan = general all round good egg who I'd like to sit next to everyday for 8 hours
I have read a lot of c*ap on Pprune over the last couple of years about getting into debt but your post I think probably takes the biscuit.... congratulations (I suspect a wind-up)!
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I am somewhat taken aback by WWW commnets too, he's normally someone who I'd listen to but on this occassion well let's say the jury's out.....
Bankruptcy is no laughing matter and the best people to advise you on that are financial professionals not WWW. However in this day and age bankruptcy has become a product in itself like life insurance, investments, etc and as such is advertised in a glossed up manner. It is being marketed to people in the same way as a seductive and desirable new car and the public are being duped into think "ah bankruptcy" my new 21st century flexible friend.
As for WWW having the opportunity to air his opinions I'd say he has every right to do so. If people don't agree with it fine but let him and others have their say and don't berate him for doing so.
Bankruptcy is no laughing matter and the best people to advise you on that are financial professionals not WWW. However in this day and age bankruptcy has become a product in itself like life insurance, investments, etc and as such is advertised in a glossed up manner. It is being marketed to people in the same way as a seductive and desirable new car and the public are being duped into think "ah bankruptcy" my new 21st century flexible friend.
As for WWW having the opportunity to air his opinions I'd say he has every right to do so. If people don't agree with it fine but let him and others have their say and don't berate him for doing so.
Lets just recap here:
Its easy to get £50k of debt to pay for your license.
Its easy to declare bankruptcy and its easy to persuade the judge you thought you could pay it back.
Its easy to live the 2 years under bankruptcy and then its very very easy to get on with the rest of your life.
Its easy to get a job as a bankrupt as they won't ask you about it won't care and neither will anyone you work with.
Its easy to live with the shame.
Morally wrong and illegal yes. But you set your own morals and the illegality lies in whether or not you intended to pay back the money and only you can know that.
Perhaps if you did it and then spent the 18 months of bankruptcy doing volunteer work in Africa then Gods scales might be rebalanced and you'll be issued with your Pearly Gates pass when the time comes.
Interesting discussion though.
Cheers
WWW
Its easy to get £50k of debt to pay for your license.
Its easy to declare bankruptcy and its easy to persuade the judge you thought you could pay it back.
Its easy to live the 2 years under bankruptcy and then its very very easy to get on with the rest of your life.
Its easy to get a job as a bankrupt as they won't ask you about it won't care and neither will anyone you work with.
Its easy to live with the shame.
Morally wrong and illegal yes. But you set your own morals and the illegality lies in whether or not you intended to pay back the money and only you can know that.
Perhaps if you did it and then spent the 18 months of bankruptcy doing volunteer work in Africa then Gods scales might be rebalanced and you'll be issued with your Pearly Gates pass when the time comes.
Interesting discussion though.
Cheers
WWW
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Perhaps if you see the word easy everyday, you start to believe that everything is ? I would suggest that there are some very real consequences beyond simply the moral ones that your posting suggests.
Voluntary work abroad, and entering the kingdom of heaven might well help someone redress the balance, however most people on here have a a more mundane interest in advice that helps them become a good professional pilot.
Voluntary work abroad, and entering the kingdom of heaven might well help someone redress the balance, however most people on here have a a more mundane interest in advice that helps them become a good professional pilot.
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I suspect that if some of the more reckless above knew a modicum of how the financial system worked, then the selfish action of illegally declaring bankruptcy would result in you being shunned.
The financial system is one big circle:
- Defaulting prevents loans being extended to others in the future
- Shareholders of the banks are defrauded
- Shareholders are typically fund managers
- Your pensions invest in the fund managers
- Your pension ultimately is defrauded as a result
No, I hear you say, these are individuals with individual situation - just as Bealzebub says - people think that one person defrauding the system is of little consequence. Unfortunately this is ludicrously incorrect.
Consider that most benefit fraud is small, and then consider what the total estimated fraud and the net loss to the government is. Then consider how mch your tax could be reduced if that fraud was eliminated...I'll leave the calculation to someone else, but you will be astounded.
Now take a step back to the bankruptcy quandry. Aside from the illegality, as we have already established who on the board has morals or not, add it all up, consider why the bank charges borrowing rates so high to cover for defaults of others, and consider what the total loss over the whole system equates to in terms of your future pension.
Banking is a competitive industry - retail banking profits are at margins below those of the likes of Ryanair, and yet just because you have to pay for the risk that you present to the bank's shareholders, you consider them thieves? I just don't understand this attitude.
WWW
If you consider theft from a corporation to be angelic, you are totally misguided and have no apparent understanding of the financial system.
I wonder if you consider petty theft from your company also to be angelic? easyJet too are a large corporation with large profit margins. Where do you draw the line.
Or are you simply a crook at heart?
The financial system is one big circle:
- Defaulting prevents loans being extended to others in the future
- Shareholders of the banks are defrauded
- Shareholders are typically fund managers
- Your pensions invest in the fund managers
- Your pension ultimately is defrauded as a result
No, I hear you say, these are individuals with individual situation - just as Bealzebub says - people think that one person defrauding the system is of little consequence. Unfortunately this is ludicrously incorrect.
Consider that most benefit fraud is small, and then consider what the total estimated fraud and the net loss to the government is. Then consider how mch your tax could be reduced if that fraud was eliminated...I'll leave the calculation to someone else, but you will be astounded.
Now take a step back to the bankruptcy quandry. Aside from the illegality, as we have already established who on the board has morals or not, add it all up, consider why the bank charges borrowing rates so high to cover for defaults of others, and consider what the total loss over the whole system equates to in terms of your future pension.
Banking is a competitive industry - retail banking profits are at margins below those of the likes of Ryanair, and yet just because you have to pay for the risk that you present to the bank's shareholders, you consider them thieves? I just don't understand this attitude.
WWW
If you consider theft from a corporation to be angelic, you are totally misguided and have no apparent understanding of the financial system.
I wonder if you consider petty theft from your company also to be angelic? easyJet too are a large corporation with large profit margins. Where do you draw the line.
Or are you simply a crook at heart?