£60,000 - £70,000 debt? WORTH IT?
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Why do people get so wound up about this matter? All I was saying earlier is to give yourself the best chance it is worth spending the money. An extra 20k or so for a lifetimes career!!!
At the end of the day training and spending your own money involves risks. But if you don't try you don't get. Granted there are the unlucky ones that get nothing years on, but there are also lots of successful pilots that go straight into the rhs of a tprop/jet.
And as for the comment about not being the envy of your mates. How many times do you go to the pub to talk about their accounting job?
At the end of the day training and spending your own money involves risks. But if you don't try you don't get. Granted there are the unlucky ones that get nothing years on, but there are also lots of successful pilots that go straight into the rhs of a tprop/jet.
And as for the comment about not being the envy of your mates. How many times do you go to the pub to talk about their accounting job?
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Not really sure that people are getting wound up, just have differing views. If you think that spending an extra £20k is more likely to get you a job, then I am sure that is something you spent a lot of time thinking about and obviously is the correct way for you to go. For me I didn't believe that is the way to go and am under no illustration that my way is an any better way of doing it, it just suits me more.
Your right any training involves risks and as such there is always a liability that goes with it, maybe paying the extra £20k reduces those risks by increasings the likelyhood of getting your dream job maybe it wont, only you can answer that.
I don't think anyone can give you the right answer, only a view on what they percieve to be the best way and as there is no fixed correct way, that in its self is going to lead an infinate amount of possibilites... One thing everyone has to remember is that we all have to live by the decisions we make, whether they be the right ones or the wrong ones and in by doing so we are all making the most of the opportunities given to us..
Pilots and firemen are all seen as hero's and admired! accountants are seen as boring and Lawyers are seen as rotweillers! simple fact is that people are shallow and a cult hero status of a pilot way out sees that of an accountant or lawyer! Hollywood has a lot to do with that!
And finally a joke for you all! sorry if you've heard it before
Police have today admitted that George Best was not in fact buried in Belfast last week, and that in retrospect the decision to cremate him in Hemel Hempstead on Sunday morning might have been a mistake
Your right any training involves risks and as such there is always a liability that goes with it, maybe paying the extra £20k reduces those risks by increasings the likelyhood of getting your dream job maybe it wont, only you can answer that.
I don't think anyone can give you the right answer, only a view on what they percieve to be the best way and as there is no fixed correct way, that in its self is going to lead an infinate amount of possibilites... One thing everyone has to remember is that we all have to live by the decisions we make, whether they be the right ones or the wrong ones and in by doing so we are all making the most of the opportunities given to us..
Pilots and firemen are all seen as hero's and admired! accountants are seen as boring and Lawyers are seen as rotweillers! simple fact is that people are shallow and a cult hero status of a pilot way out sees that of an accountant or lawyer! Hollywood has a lot to do with that!
And finally a joke for you all! sorry if you've heard it before
Police have today admitted that George Best was not in fact buried in Belfast last week, and that in retrospect the decision to cremate him in Hemel Hempstead on Sunday morning might have been a mistake
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Granted there are the unlucky ones that get nothing years on, but there are also lots of successful pilots that go straight into the rhs of a tprop/jet.
Those job success stories might only be the ones put forward by the training school, but it would still be extremely useful. I don't expect 100% or even 50% job success and obviously every student has particular qualities, but I would like to know whatever that percentage is and where these graduates are going....just seeing a general but statistically valid trend line would be a start.
Many training establishments seem only too happy to publish the first time pass rates, pass marks, liberal dosages of airline logos or glowing testimonies from the lucky ones who have found employment, but the only figures I have seen are from Oxford, and are absolute ones rather than relative. Just glancing at their site now I can't even find them again, and I may be wrong, but they never seemed like a running up-to-date commentary.
If we are expected to part with anything from £30,000 to £60,000, to pay for a minimally-transferable skill, in a saturated, volatile and possibly pessimistic job market, surely the least we could expect is an idea of how successful previous intakes were? Oxford seems unwilling to give this, but at least they seem to be doing a far better job at providing information than any other school I can think of.
Which ever school published those figures, regardless of where it was or what kind of course it offered, and probably at what cost, would win out. It is one thing for the FTO to claim it gives the best training in the world, but as all they are doing is preparing pilots for airlines; where those airlines are picking their new pilots from is the ultimate decider of quality.
League tables exist for most other tertiary education providers, budding-aviators more than ever are expected to be cautious risk-avoiders with a strong sence for economics, and yet the system at the moment seems to reward those who take a plunge at something with virtually no access to statistics and information.
In my case, no school has provided a reasonable set of historical statistics that could tell me what proportion of 30-33 year old trainees with good marks have found their way in to airline employment. I've heard some apparently do, and even some in their 50s do, but that hardly counts. How can I justify borrowing money off friends and family to fund this, without that information?
Pilots and firemen are all seen as hero's and admired! accountants are seen as boring and Lawyers are seen as rotweillers! simple fact is that people are shallow and a cult hero status of a pilot way out sees that of an accountant or lawyer! Hollywood has a lot to do with that!
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It cost me £35k several years ago, I've been flying 10 years and I've never regretted it. My observations are.
If you go to university, debt levels aren't outrageously dissimilar, and you definately don't have any job guarantees in you chosen field.
If you have the burn to do it, it wont go away. I tried to ignore it and could/should have done it years earlier.
It is a great job. Highs and lows, but better than being chained to an office desk anyday.
And finally, have any of you lot looked at bankruptcy. It really isn't that painful and now days it's can all be written off in a year. I know this sounds terribly irresponsible (coming from someone with 2 wives, 4 kids, and a cheeky smile), but do you research well and it ain't that bad an option. I did it, and (post discharge) have bought houses, secured further credit etc etc. Just be clever
and discreet. . . . .
Hope you guys and gals achieve your dreams
If you go to university, debt levels aren't outrageously dissimilar, and you definately don't have any job guarantees in you chosen field.
If you have the burn to do it, it wont go away. I tried to ignore it and could/should have done it years earlier.
It is a great job. Highs and lows, but better than being chained to an office desk anyday.
And finally, have any of you lot looked at bankruptcy. It really isn't that painful and now days it's can all be written off in a year. I know this sounds terribly irresponsible (coming from someone with 2 wives, 4 kids, and a cheeky smile), but do you research well and it ain't that bad an option. I did it, and (post discharge) have bought houses, secured further credit etc etc. Just be clever
and discreet. . . . .Hope you guys and gals achieve your dreams
Educated Hillbilly
Encouraging people to go bankrupt is not the answer. Some of us secured decent careers in order to fund the training / have a job to support the debts post training. As far as I am concerned and it is finally happening if you encourage people to file bank rupt then lending institutions will start to view lending for pilot training as too high a risk.
HSBC no longer offer loans for modular training, I was able to sucure a loan from my own bank based on my previous financial record , therefore I wasn't reliant on HSBC.
Nothing wrong with borrowing 60 - 70000 if you have the means to support the loan from a previous career post training.
In other words flying is worth the debt, but keep the debt to levels that are comfortable.
HSBC no longer offer loans for modular training, I was able to sucure a loan from my own bank based on my previous financial record , therefore I wasn't reliant on HSBC.
Nothing wrong with borrowing 60 - 70000 if you have the means to support the loan from a previous career post training.
In other words flying is worth the debt, but keep the debt to levels that are comfortable.
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Redline,
Gotta say I've found university to be infinately cheaper - a part-time degree at the University of London for 4 years will cost under £4,000 during which time you can hold down a full-time job. That is a far cry from the tens of thousands we're talking here. The job guarantees from a degree are non-existant but at least the probability of employment can be guaged.
I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to declare bankrupt - akin to getting expensive training and a great job with the bill footed by the tax-payer. From an economics point of view it might sound ok, but from an ethical point of view? With all due respect, I doubt I could stomach sharing the flightdeck with someone who used this as a means to finance training. Why not just borrow the money off mates, then do a runner? At the end of the day it amounts to the same thing.
Gotta say I've found university to be infinately cheaper - a part-time degree at the University of London for 4 years will cost under £4,000 during which time you can hold down a full-time job. That is a far cry from the tens of thousands we're talking here. The job guarantees from a degree are non-existant but at least the probability of employment can be guaged.
I certainly wouldn't encourage anyone to declare bankrupt - akin to getting expensive training and a great job with the bill footed by the tax-payer. From an economics point of view it might sound ok, but from an ethical point of view? With all due respect, I doubt I could stomach sharing the flightdeck with someone who used this as a means to finance training. Why not just borrow the money off mates, then do a runner? At the end of the day it amounts to the same thing.
Last edited by Dave Martin; 18th Dec 2005 at 15:49.
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Ok, I have just found this thread and it is making for interesting reading, as this is the debate that is going on in my mind at the moment.
I am 21 years old, in the final year of my university course now, and looking to fulfill my desire to become an airline pilot in the next few years. However, obviously, as pointed out, there are many more considerations that need to be taken.
There is no doubt that up £70000 and beyond is a massive amount of debt for anybody to obtain, and this is the fact that is scaring me above all else. For a loan that would cover those costs, I would be a long way in debt even into my 30s I'd expect. Which is a scary thought, as obviously, by the time I am 30 or so, I would very much like to be living in a house away from my parents. But with a loan of that size, it would be nigh on impossible.
The other cause for concern in my mind is that no matter which flying school I aim to go to, there is no guarantee of a job at the end of it all. Which would mean that I would effectively be up the creek without a paddle. At the moment, I am very much looking into Oxford and Cranfield on the Integrated Scheme. However, due to the fact that I own a PPL already, the modular does remain a possibility. I dare say that nobody in here will be able to tell me what the acceptance rates into airlines for modular candidates? The question that lurks in my mind is that if I was to spend up to the £40000 on the Modular, would I find myself in the same position as I could do with the £70000 loan and an integrated (f)ATPL.
Of course, on either route it is possible that I would find myself with a loan in between £40 and £70000 and no job in order to repay it.
Obviously though, it does remain to be my absolute dream to fly as a career. And personally, I would do anything I possibly could in order to achieve it.
Cheers
Chris
I am 21 years old, in the final year of my university course now, and looking to fulfill my desire to become an airline pilot in the next few years. However, obviously, as pointed out, there are many more considerations that need to be taken.
There is no doubt that up £70000 and beyond is a massive amount of debt for anybody to obtain, and this is the fact that is scaring me above all else. For a loan that would cover those costs, I would be a long way in debt even into my 30s I'd expect. Which is a scary thought, as obviously, by the time I am 30 or so, I would very much like to be living in a house away from my parents. But with a loan of that size, it would be nigh on impossible.
The other cause for concern in my mind is that no matter which flying school I aim to go to, there is no guarantee of a job at the end of it all. Which would mean that I would effectively be up the creek without a paddle. At the moment, I am very much looking into Oxford and Cranfield on the Integrated Scheme. However, due to the fact that I own a PPL already, the modular does remain a possibility. I dare say that nobody in here will be able to tell me what the acceptance rates into airlines for modular candidates? The question that lurks in my mind is that if I was to spend up to the £40000 on the Modular, would I find myself in the same position as I could do with the £70000 loan and an integrated (f)ATPL.
Of course, on either route it is possible that I would find myself with a loan in between £40 and £70000 and no job in order to repay it.
Obviously though, it does remain to be my absolute dream to fly as a career. And personally, I would do anything I possibly could in order to achieve it.
Cheers
Chris
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This one always seems to pop up every couple of months....
When I initially started looking for training providers, I never knew the diffrence between modular/integrated, FAA and JAA...I think everyone looks at the figure cost as a whole and thinks the worst over finances.
If debt / finances is an issue, then do your research and start training modular! If you stay at your current job, get your PPL, class 1, 150 hours experience and perhaps do distance learning on the ATPL theory...you wont be in debt....my idea is minimise my future debt, whether that means it takes me an extra year then so be it...Id rather stay in a happy enviroment with no financial stress.
Modular costs are probably averagly around 40-45k, divide that cost over 3-4 years and its very much achievable to those on below average income with the same time frame as a respectable course at university.
On a side note, if you work and learn how to fly on your time off, it gives you something to look forward to and it certainly made my weeks go faster! 2005 has literally flew past..
happy flying.
When I initially started looking for training providers, I never knew the diffrence between modular/integrated, FAA and JAA...I think everyone looks at the figure cost as a whole and thinks the worst over finances.
If debt / finances is an issue, then do your research and start training modular! If you stay at your current job, get your PPL, class 1, 150 hours experience and perhaps do distance learning on the ATPL theory...you wont be in debt....my idea is minimise my future debt, whether that means it takes me an extra year then so be it...Id rather stay in a happy enviroment with no financial stress.
Modular costs are probably averagly around 40-45k, divide that cost over 3-4 years and its very much achievable to those on below average income with the same time frame as a respectable course at university.
On a side note, if you work and learn how to fly on your time off, it gives you something to look forward to and it certainly made my weeks go faster! 2005 has literally flew past..
happy flying.
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Lots of good considerations covered. The only thing I can add is that I have been talking to the western Australian aviation college. They are newly approved by the CAA to run the Intergrated ATPL. No track record as they are just starting out (I would appreciate any info that anyone may have) but they offer the course for about 40K (about 20K cheaper than the other big four!). Their marketing dept say the low cost is due to cheaper fuel and living costs downunder. Having been living in oz for a bit it makes sense. Things are generally cheaper here. Hope this helps. Good luck!
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c_jephcott,
I'm in your exact same position (even age!). While I'm not un the UK, and training is as far as I know still cheaper here, I've come to the conclusion that taking out a big-a55 loan like that is insane.
I've decided after University I'm going to go with modular training, allowing me to work at the same time. Well actually I'm only in 3rd year, but almost the same as you. I'm going to do my PPL during this summer break, then continue with my training when I'm done school the next year.
Just imagine how much, especially at our age, you would be blowing your life away by getting a 70,000 (£ even!!) loan! You are basically writing off 10+ years of your life to paying debt. Having no life whatsoever outside of your flying job because you can't afford to do anything, but sit in your house and eat baked beans. Personally I know I have other goals and things in life I want to do besides my flying job. If I was giving up my entire paycheque to debt, none of that is going to happen.
For me, and I imagine for most people (unless you are rich, the exceptions) the choice is clear, it is better to work full time while you train. While it will take longer, I think it is well worth it.
Anyway, just a little insight into my thinking, good luck.
ps. Not even considering the situation where you have all that debt and can't find any flying job! methinks life would be looking pretty dim then...
pps. come to Canada with a CPL and get some bush flying in! If you truly want to experience flying before you step into a jet office...
I'm in your exact same position (even age!). While I'm not un the UK, and training is as far as I know still cheaper here, I've come to the conclusion that taking out a big-a55 loan like that is insane.
I've decided after University I'm going to go with modular training, allowing me to work at the same time. Well actually I'm only in 3rd year, but almost the same as you. I'm going to do my PPL during this summer break, then continue with my training when I'm done school the next year.
Just imagine how much, especially at our age, you would be blowing your life away by getting a 70,000 (£ even!!) loan! You are basically writing off 10+ years of your life to paying debt. Having no life whatsoever outside of your flying job because you can't afford to do anything, but sit in your house and eat baked beans. Personally I know I have other goals and things in life I want to do besides my flying job. If I was giving up my entire paycheque to debt, none of that is going to happen.
For me, and I imagine for most people (unless you are rich, the exceptions) the choice is clear, it is better to work full time while you train. While it will take longer, I think it is well worth it.
Anyway, just a little insight into my thinking, good luck.
ps. Not even considering the situation where you have all that debt and can't find any flying job! methinks life would be looking pretty dim then...
pps. come to Canada with a CPL and get some bush flying in! If you truly want to experience flying before you step into a jet office...
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SSTaurus,
To be fair, given the rates of pay for non turbo-prop jobs in the UK I have to say I don't think the level of debt incurred is that bad, in the long term....if you land a jet job straight after.
I've done the math before and I would certainly be earning a substantial lot more than I am now, even paying off the 70K for 10 years. That said, I'd love to be blatting round the countryside in a TP, but the salaries seem so much lower than it just isn't worth the integrated cost.
You say being saddled with 70k of debt is a pain - well imagine if you didn't have a job at the end of it?!? The repayments on the standard loan alone are what a half reasonable job would bring in and no more! That to me is blooody terrifying!
The issue surely has got to be the probability of getting a jet job. And, for all I know, hundreds of fATPLs are being churned out every year with no where to go. I just haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise.
To be fair, given the rates of pay for non turbo-prop jobs in the UK I have to say I don't think the level of debt incurred is that bad, in the long term....if you land a jet job straight after.
I've done the math before and I would certainly be earning a substantial lot more than I am now, even paying off the 70K for 10 years. That said, I'd love to be blatting round the countryside in a TP, but the salaries seem so much lower than it just isn't worth the integrated cost.
You say being saddled with 70k of debt is a pain - well imagine if you didn't have a job at the end of it?!? The repayments on the standard loan alone are what a half reasonable job would bring in and no more! That to me is blooody terrifying!
The issue surely has got to be the probability of getting a jet job. And, for all I know, hundreds of fATPLs are being churned out every year with no where to go. I just haven't seen anything to indicate otherwise.
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Judojames,
If I was you I'd go and get a PPL first and see how you actually like flying. If you've already done that (or flown a few hours and got the bug), then I'd be inclined to be as cautious as I could be when it comes to how much debt you're getting into..
You mentioned the fact you earn 25k now, which is not a bad salary for someone of your age. If you studied for your ATPL exams whilst working full time, you could save the money you are currently earning. Once you've completed the exams you could take a career break (If that option exists with your current employer) or resign. You could then hour build, go straight into a CPL, and then a Multi IR straight after. Having saved money whilst studying, you will have to borrow less to pay for this.
Put that together on a CV, and in reality the only "modular" part of your training is the PPL and ATPL exams. You will have had continuity throughout the "business end" of your training and as such could anticipate 1st time passes in your CPL and IR skills tests. That in itself saves a hell of a lot of money on re-test fees and aircraft hire!
In all honesty, I don't think that much emphasis is placed upon the name of a school by potential employers. Oxford for example could give you a glowing report, but come your sim assessment and interview etc, if you have a bad day, you will not get the job. If the guy after you, who went the modular route had a good day, he gets the job. It's that simple.
My advice; choose a good modular route and pay less. However, do try to complete the CPL/IR part of the training on a full time basis.
BBP
If I was you I'd go and get a PPL first and see how you actually like flying. If you've already done that (or flown a few hours and got the bug), then I'd be inclined to be as cautious as I could be when it comes to how much debt you're getting into..
You mentioned the fact you earn 25k now, which is not a bad salary for someone of your age. If you studied for your ATPL exams whilst working full time, you could save the money you are currently earning. Once you've completed the exams you could take a career break (If that option exists with your current employer) or resign. You could then hour build, go straight into a CPL, and then a Multi IR straight after. Having saved money whilst studying, you will have to borrow less to pay for this.
Put that together on a CV, and in reality the only "modular" part of your training is the PPL and ATPL exams. You will have had continuity throughout the "business end" of your training and as such could anticipate 1st time passes in your CPL and IR skills tests. That in itself saves a hell of a lot of money on re-test fees and aircraft hire!
In all honesty, I don't think that much emphasis is placed upon the name of a school by potential employers. Oxford for example could give you a glowing report, but come your sim assessment and interview etc, if you have a bad day, you will not get the job. If the guy after you, who went the modular route had a good day, he gets the job. It's that simple.
My advice; choose a good modular route and pay less. However, do try to complete the CPL/IR part of the training on a full time basis.
BBP
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Dave,
I'm not sure I get the final direction of your post. First you say the debt isn't bad, then that integrated isn't worth the cost? I'm probably misunderstanding it here.
Anyway, if it wasn't clear, I'm all for the modular route, in order to mitigate risk to yourself and to reduce or eliminate the debt you have to take on.
70K £, that's 142,000 cdn! (or slightly less in US$) I couldn't imagine sinking myself that far into the hole. To me that doesn't sound like a reasonable amount of debt.
Cheers
I'm not sure I get the final direction of your post. First you say the debt isn't bad, then that integrated isn't worth the cost? I'm probably misunderstanding it here.
Anyway, if it wasn't clear, I'm all for the modular route, in order to mitigate risk to yourself and to reduce or eliminate the debt you have to take on.
70K £, that's 142,000 cdn! (or slightly less in US$) I couldn't imagine sinking myself that far into the hole. To me that doesn't sound like a reasonable amount of debt.
Cheers
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Hi all,
just thought i'd throw in a bit of an opposing arguement to the debate! Not sure if i'm missing something but it seems like a certain, dare i say the name....CTC..... are being overlooked. For any wannabees this has got to be worth looking at.
As a simplified explanation, 60K unsecured loan, 18 months training, thus far a 100% success rate at placing cadets in jets(as far as I know). If you start at easy - the major partner airline - you will be on a slalary (currently displayed on their site, but likely to change soon with the ongoing negotiations there) of around 26-28K after sector pay etc has been accounted for. Wilst earning this salary they pay off 1K per month from your loan - meaning around 7 years to pay it off fully.
Other partner airlines such as Thomas Cook, BA, First Choice... will pay a salary in the region of 40K from which you will pay off your own loan - a similar financial position to being at easy. I reckon I could scrape by on that salary for 7 years,
and thats without any promotions etc.
The brucy bonus of this scheme is the shiny jet at the end, and the weight taken off your mind as you train that CTC will place you - it is highly unlikely that you will have to go hunting(lets all hope that the boom continues). The company's profit comes from 'selling' their cadets to airlines - if you don't get employment, they lose out.
Yes there are risks, but if you want the job badly then they are risks you are willing to take, CTC also cover the first 30K of your training costs should you fall at any point in the course - part of the reason their selection is tough is that they don't want you to fail - they rely on you getting through. This can't be a bad thing.
As I said I hope this post fits in with the thread - somebody had to say it
Hope I haven't sent you all to 
Oh..and 1 last disclaimer - for the anti-CTC (Oxford) guys out there, i'm not implying that it is a better school than the others, just hoping to shed a bit of light on the finances etc - I don't feel it has to be a road to financial ruin!!!
just thought i'd throw in a bit of an opposing arguement to the debate! Not sure if i'm missing something but it seems like a certain, dare i say the name....CTC..... are being overlooked. For any wannabees this has got to be worth looking at.
As a simplified explanation, 60K unsecured loan, 18 months training, thus far a 100% success rate at placing cadets in jets(as far as I know). If you start at easy - the major partner airline - you will be on a slalary (currently displayed on their site, but likely to change soon with the ongoing negotiations there) of around 26-28K after sector pay etc has been accounted for. Wilst earning this salary they pay off 1K per month from your loan - meaning around 7 years to pay it off fully.
Other partner airlines such as Thomas Cook, BA, First Choice... will pay a salary in the region of 40K from which you will pay off your own loan - a similar financial position to being at easy. I reckon I could scrape by on that salary for 7 years,
and thats without any promotions etc.The brucy bonus of this scheme is the shiny jet at the end, and the weight taken off your mind as you train that CTC will place you - it is highly unlikely that you will have to go hunting(lets all hope that the boom continues). The company's profit comes from 'selling' their cadets to airlines - if you don't get employment, they lose out.
Yes there are risks, but if you want the job badly then they are risks you are willing to take, CTC also cover the first 30K of your training costs should you fall at any point in the course - part of the reason their selection is tough is that they don't want you to fail - they rely on you getting through. This can't be a bad thing.
As I said I hope this post fits in with the thread - somebody had to say it
Hope I haven't sent you all to Oh..and 1 last disclaimer - for the anti-CTC (Oxford) guys out there, i'm not implying that it is a better school than the others, just hoping to shed a bit of light on the finances etc - I don't feel it has to be a road to financial ruin!!!
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Sstaurus,
Sorry, what I'm trying to say is that 70K debt, while obviously being huge, can be repaid in 10 years on a typical jet salary while still allowing a comfortable standard of living - even in London.
Where I think integrated isn't worth the cost is if you end up in a TP job, which seem to typically pay between 17K and 23K per year. Quite how one can live AND pay off the integrated course fees while on this salary I do not know. Survival might sum it up, and even though you love the job, I don't think I could justify it.
I think my point is, while the 70K sounds like a lot, if you get the jet job at the end of it then in my opinion it is probably money well spent. If you don't get the job then you have taken a massive gamble and lost - big time. In that respect I can see an advantage in modular as you are saddled with less debt, but if the job prospects with modular are lower than with integrated then there is a greater chance of failing to get "the job".
35K or 70K; if all you have at the end of it is some nice memories and a piece of paper from JAA then you are screwed either way.
Sorry, what I'm trying to say is that 70K debt, while obviously being huge, can be repaid in 10 years on a typical jet salary while still allowing a comfortable standard of living - even in London.
Where I think integrated isn't worth the cost is if you end up in a TP job, which seem to typically pay between 17K and 23K per year. Quite how one can live AND pay off the integrated course fees while on this salary I do not know. Survival might sum it up, and even though you love the job, I don't think I could justify it.
I think my point is, while the 70K sounds like a lot, if you get the jet job at the end of it then in my opinion it is probably money well spent. If you don't get the job then you have taken a massive gamble and lost - big time. In that respect I can see an advantage in modular as you are saddled with less debt, but if the job prospects with modular are lower than with integrated then there is a greater chance of failing to get "the job".
35K or 70K; if all you have at the end of it is some nice memories and a piece of paper from JAA then you are screwed either way.
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To put all of this into perspective, I'll introduce some interesting facts when it comes to training costs and salaries.
My older brother is a tanker driver, delivering fuel to garages, airports, etc. The total cost of his training was 2k.
On boxing day he will be working one shift for £850. Yes folks, for one day at the wheel £850. The reason being the fuel shortage in the south of England following the Buncefield fire.
His net pay is £987 per week.
Granted, as far as driving jobs go, he is at the top of the tree and can earn no more. His salary in relation to pilot (FO's) earnings aren't that far apart. But the differances in training costs are huge. Makes we ask myself which brother chose the correct form of employment????
My older brother is a tanker driver, delivering fuel to garages, airports, etc. The total cost of his training was 2k.
On boxing day he will be working one shift for £850. Yes folks, for one day at the wheel £850. The reason being the fuel shortage in the south of England following the Buncefield fire.
His net pay is £987 per week.
Granted, as far as driving jobs go, he is at the top of the tree and can earn no more. His salary in relation to pilot (FO's) earnings aren't that far apart. But the differances in training costs are huge. Makes we ask myself which brother chose the correct form of employment????
Well said dlav
The only reason I want to be a pilot is to fly a plane.
I dont care about the debt or wages or even about money!
I already owe £12K to the UK government for my degree, and am just about to go to Jerez to get my ATPL. If i get a job flying planes I'll be the happiest man alive, otherwise oh well I still get to fly planes with my own money. Even if i live in a 1 bed flat in the middle of nowhere flying only ATP's at night I'll be happy. I want to fly planes and that's all I want. All you people out there that just want a jet job / think its a glamorous life shame on you! I cudnt care less how my life end up as long as i get to fly.
Jamo
The only reason I want to be a pilot is to fly a plane.
I dont care about the debt or wages or even about money!
I already owe £12K to the UK government for my degree, and am just about to go to Jerez to get my ATPL. If i get a job flying planes I'll be the happiest man alive, otherwise oh well I still get to fly planes with my own money. Even if i live in a 1 bed flat in the middle of nowhere flying only ATP's at night I'll be happy. I want to fly planes and that's all I want. All you people out there that just want a jet job / think its a glamorous life shame on you! I cudnt care less how my life end up as long as i get to fly.
Jamo
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In answer to the question... No it's not worth it. don't do it.
if you want to fly find a cheaper way. It may take you longer but to get yourself a mortgage with no house is plain stupid.
if you want to fly find a cheaper way. It may take you longer but to get yourself a mortgage with no house is plain stupid.
Join Date: Nov 2003
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everyone seems to place their mind on jet jobs straight after training completion...
Is it only me that fancys turbo prop flying for a couple of years? or is the air too thin here?
Flying turbo props is where you learn how to be a pilot!
will
Is it only me that fancys turbo prop flying for a couple of years? or is the air too thin here?
Flying turbo props is where you learn how to be a pilot!
will